TWINE vs. GoldenEye

Red Grant

Pierce Brosnan has had the fortune to be IMO to excellent Bond films. I was wondering what your thoughts on each film is, I have watched them over and I believe that TWINE is the better of the two with GoldenEye a close second.

What do you think?

TGO_

I think TWINE is Brosnan's best acted Bond, and plus he looks now like a weathered, hardened spy, instad of the boyish, ladykiller look, that he had in GE. TWINE for me, always had this rewatchable aspect for me. I also liked TWINE's dark photography, which is reflected in its music. GE's score, doesn't work for the film. Both plots are great...but I feel that TWINE had better character developlement. Just my two Lincoln's on the subject.

Red Grant

A very vaild agruement TGO, but here is my take on these two classic Bond films:

I think in terms of script, TWINE has the edge despite GoldenEye's superior ending.GoldenEye looses a bit by not devolping the 007/006 relationship to its fullest potiental. Other than this, both films have outstanding action, and dramatic sequences, although GoldenEye is the winner for its two pre-intro stunts and the superb stunt sequences. GoldenEye and TWINE both got the amount of gadgets. The one complain for both is
little use for the car.
There is not much between GoldenEye and TWINE. In terms of characterisation, it is also pretty close. In TWINE both Elektra and Renard are brilliant characters, both of whom have real motives. GoldenEye’s Trevelyan and Xenia are good, but not as good.However, Natalya Simonova beats Christmas Jones hands down. I just find Dr Jones to be not credible. In terms of plot, both stretch the imagition a bit but do not break it. As Fleming said, "Bond can go widly beyond the probable, but not the possible." But TWINE takes both best plot and story, as it has more of a Fleming Flair

In the end though you have an embarrasment of riches with both films, either choice IMO is a good one. Perhaps it is becuase, I being a Brosnan Bond fan, see TWINE as supierior becuase he perfects Brosnan's kind of Bond in Brosnan's kind of Bond film, thus it makes it slightly higher, but also I think that Trevelyan's character is well devolped, compared to Renards when the whole show was stolen by Electra.


Either way you have an enourmous amount of pluses with both films. GoldenEye brought the series back, and proved to the world Bond was here to stay. Whereas, TWINE perfected what GoldenEye brought back.

JACKIE

Like I said before, I'm 50/50 on this one. When i last watched Goldeneye i didn't enjoy it as much because there seemed to not be hardly any scene cuts, and it just seems to merge together. But when I watched TWINE even though the scenes are better "spliced" together, I remembered how much I didn't like the ending. Although it wasn't over-the-top it was a little anti-climatic. It had a good premise that could have been milked a little more methinks.

scaramanga1

I have to say TWINE comes out on top for me. GE is great, but I'm not a big fan of Sean Bean. Whereas, I really rate Robert Carlyle as an actor. As for Pierce, he just keeps on getting better!

BondChick007

I'm 50-50 on this too. I liked Goldeneye a lot. It was the first bond I saw. But it's not my favorite anymore. It served it's purpose by bringing bond back and introducing Brosnan. Goldeneye is still an awsome movie, but if you really pay attention to the details, it sometimes drags. IMO twine was brosnan's best preformance as bond between that and GE. (For me his best acting job was in TND with paris) Twine was a good movie but Richards really killed it for me....

Sprog731

Firstly, i must agree with 'bondchick007' in saying that Pierce's best acting moment in terms of bond was with Paris in tnd.

IMHO, i think that although the character of electra, and bond's reactions to her drive TWINE in excellent fashion, but Renard does not quite live up to the character of Trevelyan. As for the endings, i feel this is what decides it for me, at the end of goldeneye, i was satisfied, but at the end of TWINE i had to just cringe, i felt that giving Dr Jones her first name on the basis of having the one liner at the end about Christmas only coming once a year was unnecessary and crude, but that's not the only reason i was dissapointed with the end of TWINE, as 'jackie' said, it was simply anticlimatic.

Hugo Drax

IMO Goldeneye is better, regardless of the outlandish pre-credit stunts. It has a more rounded feel to it and the Trevelyan/Bond relationship is intriguing. Also has a better Bond girl. TWINE has an anti-climatic ending and I didn't like Renard and the bullet in the brain rubbish and Elektra, who I felt overacted the part. It has some nice touches ie: when M uses the clock battery to activate the card, but the plot feels like we've all been here before- destroying something to create a monopoly. King doesn't follow well in the footsteps of Goldfinger and Zorin.

Neither are particular favourites of mine (I like the oldies best- no Moore jokes please). But GE is better.

Red Grant

well you guys have given me a lot to think about. I took this afternoon off and watched both. The verdirct is in its TWINE!!!!

Kerim Bey

Quoting Red Grant:
I took this afternoon off and watched both. The verdirct is in its TWINE!!!!

But don't you switch like every three days? )

Number 2

TWINE is better? No way! Relatively boring and, as mentioned above, anticlimactic. That has to be the worst ending to any of the Bond films. If Renard can't feel pain, why does he wince when hit at the end? Also, he may not feel the hot rocks in his hand, but that doesn't mean they're not hurting him! I haven't even watched this one a second time.

Goldeneye, on the other hand, is AWESOME! I guess the mood of that film is better, and that's an important thing. Loved the tank chase. Famke Jannsen was a great villian and Natalia a real looker. It's hard to put my finger on why that one is tied with You Only Live Twice as my favorite. Superb N64 game based on the movie as well.

Jimmy

I enjoy Goldeneye well enough, I mean I dont hate any Bond films, but TWINE just outdoes it in every category. Goldeneye did rejuvinate Bond, you have to give credit where credit is due, but TWINE has the better story, and chraracters. Many people complain about Renard's lack of screentime, that would be a valid compolaint, IF HE WAS THE VILLIAN! Elektra is the villian of this piece, and she practically steals the film from Brosnan, you can literally see him acting harder just so he wont be blown out of the scenes they are in together.

The action is another story, Goldeney had fun action sequences (and nothing much else) TWINE is a mixed bag, the ski chase is great, the opening sequence does not dissapoint, and even the submarine finale is fun, but the caviar sequence really detracts from what could have been an otherwise (almost) flawless film.

To sum it up. When I want to watch a great Brosnan Bond film I put TWINE in.

To compare TWINE and DAD, now that would be a great thread (I call dibs on it!!!! )

Red Grant

I think TWINE had the better story and tension with GE a close second.

Hugo Drax

Well Red I think the idea was to financially ruin the Bank of England, and England itself., rather than theft due to avarice.

Red Grant

Well I think both films are excellent, and I really can't think of too many weaknessess on either side. GoldenEye, espically TWINE, and DAD are IMO the series crown jewels that will never be topped.

JACKIE

Mabye that is the reason why Red Grant and I have got this problem, since Goldeneye was our first "real" Bond adventure. I used to watch bits of Bond movies when they were on TV (christams and such), but it wasn't until GE that I really sat up and started taking notice.

Red Grant

Very true, Jackie, but I will still have to side with TWINE.

Dortmunder

I like GE better than I do TWINE. Usually I don't like the first outing that the actor did (DN and LALD), but I feel that Pierce Brosnan did his best outing in GE. TWINE is good, but I don't feel that it did the same for me as GE did. I like the plot in GE more and the girls. Although I do like Azerbaijan and Istanbul better than St. Petersburg (I like Monaco the best), I think that the locations that they went to in the city were better in GE. I think that the villains did an equally good job in their respective parts. My favourite line from a Bond film (Insurance company is never going to believe this!), was actually in TWINE. Also, I like Zukovsky's role more in TWINE. All in all, I just like GE more than I do TWINE.

For me, it is actually TND vs. TWINE. I can't decide between those two, which one I actually like more.

Red Grant

yeah I really can't decide to much either. But now I think I have to give it to TWINE. It is slightly more interesting. It really goes back to that old style by Connery and Fleming that made the series so popular. Brosnan IS Bond to me, and I knew (just like with Connery and Moore) number three in the end, would be number one!

JACKIE

I just find TND a little too commercial and simple, although I loved it when it first came out, and it's leagues ahead of some of the earlier Bonds.

Red Grant

yeah it was a major disapointment from the ideal Bond film before it.

Alex

Well, my first impressions for both films are different. GE kept me in my seat, it grabbed and kept my attention throughout. Contrary to some's beliefs, I never got bored in the middle, or thought that was Pierce did too much standing around.

For my TWINE theater night, my butt hurt! It was long, I liked it but just wanted to get out and stretch my legs. I loved Elektra and Renard, but I thought that was the film that dragged in the middle, not GE.

First impressions can either last or they can be fleeting, seven years after GE, and three years after TWINE, my opinions have altered a little. First TWINE,- I feel it is now a classic, what I thought was too long and drawn out before now I love. The DVD convienience let's me see what a great cerebral thriller it is. I could tell in the theater it was good, but I just don't like sitting in a seat for that long. (Titanic anyone?)

Not to say GE hasn't any legs, it still is probably my personal favorite Pierce Brosnan. But TWINE is creeping up on me, it has more layers then GE, there is just more to sink your teeth into.

JACKIE

How about this then. Goldeneye gives it to you all in the first showing, and TWINE reveals something new each time you watch.

At first Goldeneye is better, but the more you see TWINE, the more it grows on you.

I honestly have to say that I remember leaving the cinema after TWINE feeling a little sad and confused. But I think it is because of it's, sadly, anti-climatic ending. Although i do salute them for trying to create a finale that is more thrilling on a more realistic and emotional level (unlike TND, which is typical hollywood with the big special effects). But I have to say that GE had a much more exciting (if slightly predictable) ending. It wasn't as OTT as the TND ending, and it was a bit more special effects ladden than TWINE's. But even though TWINE's was anti-climatic, it isn't a bad ending, and it has a very "fesh" feel to it compared with the climaxes of the other Bond movies.

Alex

You mirrored my thoughts precisely Jackie, TWINE is slightly less superficial then GE, either way they are both way superior to TND.

Xenobia

Like a lot of people in this thread...I go fifty-fifty. Hands down...GE had the better Bond girls...two good ones against Sophie Marceau's excellent Elektra King, but points are taken away for the horrid Christmas Jones, as murdered by Denise Richards.

Sean Bean and Robert Caryle were both strong villians in their own way...but I must say I did enjoy the "lost friend" angle a lot more.

That being said, for me, TWINE had the better locations and the more pertinant plot...all we need is someone controlling an oil line to go nuts, and we are all doomed! And frankly, I fnd the whole boat chase sequence to be a lot more thrilling than Bond going for a swan dive at the dam.

So at this moment...TWINE wins out...although GE is a very close second, and to join the chorus, PB's best acting moment was with Paris in TND. If you watch that scene over and over again....you really come to appreciate all the fine details Brosnan put into that scene, but you also come to wonder why Teri Hatcher didn't do her part.

-- Xenobia

Jimmy

I just watched TND last night, that bedroom scene is such a gem to watch. Brosnan injects Bond with so much emotion in that one scene it blows Roger's seven films out of the water right there (a joke, please Moore fans, dont flame me for that).

Like you said Xenobia, too bad Hatcher didnt do her part.

Red Grant

yeah, TWINE really doe give a more powerful showing everytime. I that is becuase due to the marvelous details done with the plot. It has so many layers, that it is hard to analyize it in all one viewing.

Red Grant

In terms of legacy how do you think GE and TWINE will be remembered???

Red Grant

I think you won't really see TWINE remembered as much as GoldenEye. for the simple reason that GE has set a style that all films prior have fillowed and used as a standard. Not to mention it is considered one of the best action films of the 90's.

Jimmy

Far be it for me to interrupt a conversation with yourself But I think I'll comment. Which one will be remembered down the road? Goldeneye definately, it is the film that brought Bond back, for that simple reason I think it will be remembered.

Xenobia

I think the one that Brosnan will be remembered for is DAD. After that, I think depending on taste (as it is with Moore fans between TSWLM and FYEO) GE or TWINE will be remembered next.

It all depends on what you wanted out of a Bond film and in particular a Brosnan Bond film.

-- Xenobia