Theresa May has just authorized soldiers to assist armed police keep British streets safe. Apart from Northern Ireland, is this the first time in modern times this has happened in the UK?
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
And compassion and morals and honour I could go on about what terrorists are missing.
And bullets in the head.
That my friend is the most important and pertinent thing they are missing
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Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Theresa May has just authorized soldiers to assist armed police keep British streets safe. Apart from Northern Ireland, is this the first time in modern times this had happened in the county?
No, the military were almost brought in during the fuel crisis when protesters blockaded refinerys and caused a national shortage of petrol and diesel. Tony Blair authorised the British army without consulting the Queen which was frowned upon. Legally a prime minister doesn't need the Queens authority. It was mentioned that to mobilise the army against its own countrymen was an act of civil war!! Not done since Charles the first.
I think we this may be a good call.
I personally think the time has come, that if you, through your extremist actions come to the
attention of the police and security services. You should immediately face prison or deportation.
Harsh, I agree but I'm more concerned with keeping citizens safe rather than worrying about the
rights of extremists.
Couldn't agree more TP. These baskets are known to the security forces but the policy seems to be monitor them from afar and intervene when they get wind something is going to happen...except as has been seen at Westminster and last night, they don't always know something is going down!
Time to kick these medieval barbarians and their sick insidious beliefs out of our country!
Japanese proverb say, "Bird never make nest in bare tree".
I personally think the time has come, that if you, through your extremist actions come to the
attention of the police and security services. You should immediately face prison or deportation.
Harsh, I agree but I'm more concerned with keeping citizens safe rather than worrying about the
rights of extremists.
Couldn't agree more TP. These baskets are known to the security forces but the policy seems to be monitor them from afar and intervene when they get wind something is going to happen...except as has been seen at Westminster and last night, they don't always know something is going down!
Time to kick these medieval barbarians and their sick insidious beliefs out of our country!
The problem is the law! we have intelligence but no evidence to arrest and press charges. We monitor them but until they actually do something or are known to posses items that could prove intention to commit terrorism there is precious little we can do. I sincerely believe the terrorism laws need amending to free up the police and security services to more robustly pursue these murdering scum without fear of repercussions. In recent times we've been more concerned with not offending certain minorities.
Could surveillance records be shown to a judge, as ( if not proof ) strong evidence that
a suspect is very likely to be planning an attack of some sort ? That way there would always
be some sort of accountability.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
It's very tempting. But who decides who's an extremist? That's a tremendous power to give the government. I think it's right not to let people who have volunteered to fight with the IS (or other such groups) on the terror lists back into Europe. Perhaps people who have given money to terrorist organisation can be thrown out. But this is often masked as humanitarian aid, so can the court prove that the donors knew the money was for the IS? Do we want to live in a world where people can be thrown out of the country because you saw on TV a school in Afghanistan bombed by Western forces and posted in anger on Facebook?
People living in the West and at the same time hating it is a very serious problem, but so is undermining the rule of law.
I don't think anyone is suggesting giving the security services a free hand to do anything.
Every action would have to go before a judge, to show surveillance records pointing to an
attack of some sort taking place.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
My post was written as a comment on posts further up, it just took a lot of time to write and correct autocorrect. It looks like members feel the need for security, but also appreciate the need to uphold the rule of law. That's reassuring.
My personal preference would be for there to be specialist judges who would grant action warrants or orders having seen or heard what the intelligence is. At the moment terrorism is broadly dealt with as any serious crime, where the Cps decide on prosecution and the police try to gather evidence to build a good enough case. Obviously there are further powers in play and intelligence and security agents are working with police. May be controversial but I'd not be against deniable black operations against terrorists. It worked in Gibraltar except being all over the news.
) True. I too have no problem with any black ops to rid us of some psychos.
In my book terrorists of all nationalities, politics and religions are all scumbags
And deserve all they get.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Well, assassinations do happen against known terrorists. It's often done using drones, but not always. It's very dark territory in many ways, but sometimes you can't arrest a man hiding in Pakistan or Yemen in lawless tribal areas. Do it when it has to be done, I say, but it should never become an easy solution.
Are you speaking of assas... asass... assai......... targeted killings?
Assassinating sounds too grand a term, I'm talking about deniable but sanctioned terminations. I'm talking about this being the result of hundreds of Man hours spent gathering intelligence, photographs, reconnaissance and having all the pieces of the puzzle but not having the physical evidence to get an arrest warrant. The target would simply dissappear and sent off to achieve his life ambition and meet Allah! Just without taking innocent lives while on his way.
Are you speaking of assas... asass... assai......... targeted killings?
Assassinating sounds too grand a term, I'm talking about deniable but sanctioned terminations. I'm talking about this being the result of hundreds of Man hours spent gathering intelligence, photographs, reconnaissance and having all the pieces of the puzzle but not having the physical evidence to get an arrest warrant. The target would simply dissappear and sent off to achieve his life ambition and meet Allah! Just without taking innocent lives while on his way.
If you're on the Watched list of crazy, extremists and not a UK citizen, you should be deported.
If you're on the Watched list of crazy extremists and a UK citizen, you should be in prison.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Who makes the list?
The politicians you trust so much?
The MI5?
Do you get on the list for actively supporting Wikileaks? I'm sure many in the government would like that.
If your brother was killed in an RAF bombing and you have expressed your anger on the net, should you be on the list?
I too would like to see extremists who hate our way of life and could possibly become a terrorist in prison or out of the county. But we have to be aware that this is dangerous territory.
It has been stated that the intelligence services monitor extremists, so have a watch list of dangerous people.
Those who are not from the UK, can be deported. After all living here is not a right ?
This would free up resources to watch the homegrown terrorists.
Or.....
..we can do nothing , do the politically correct thing of loving everyone, taking no additional action, and then
Watch as more kids get blown up. Make a few statements about how it's not right but actually do nothing
To protect the public. Which is part of a government's job.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Yes, I think the worst extremists should be deportert or jailed. I also find it ironic that I - the trusting, liberal, pro-government social democrat is the one least willing to give governments the ultimatum powers.
I'm the one against capital punishment, I'm the one who's most critical to let the government jail or deport people based on their opinions. It's a funny world.
Indeed it is, although Britain is a modern democracy, not some " Police State, banana republic ".
People are held accountable for their actions, and I'm sure safe guards would be put in place.
On a similar note, I only came across this speech from Kevin Costner to the British Army, which
Is very moving it will bring a lump to your throat, for those who protect us. https://youtu.be/RqSzBOv_OGg
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
I agree and I'm proud that I served to the best of my abilities many years ago. I'm glad and thankful that British, American and soldiers from other countries come here to train and show their support to our defense. A unit from the US Marines have trained here all winter. It's about time, since both their training and equipment turned out to be severely lacking for winter warfare. They are welcome back with better equipment.
OK let's get some context here. Currently in the UK there are just a shade over 3200 people who are suspected of activity actioning terrorism or active members of extreme Muslim groups, We do not have resources to follow all these people, and they are the ones we know about. There are extensive reports running to hundreds of pages on around 1000 of them amd intelligence on all of them. These terrorists currently can't be acted against until they do or have something that implicates them PHYSICALLY so no action is taken.
So Abdul Azuz of 22, Slaughter Street is on the list, has intelligence reports on him and is known to be an active terrorist but is untouchable until he is part of an imminent plot or is found to have bomb making equipment on him or in his property. So next Wednesday he decides today is the day..... No one is watching him as they're are watching 900 different terrorists who seem more active lately. Abdul walks into a primary school which has zero security and blows himself and 30 children up, some of which are outside the fatal percussion range and are killed by being ripped to bits by the nails and ball bearings he packed into his bomb.
Let's rewind a day. next Tuesday morning a specialist judge signs an action order after reading extensive intelligence reports on Abdul, he's satisfied enough by what he's read. later that day a van pulls up outside 22 slaughter Street Abdul arrives home, is positively id'd and is bungled into the van......he's never seen again! Where did he go? .... Who knows, it may be presumed he travelled to Syria to fight for ISIS? who cares? Maybe immediate family. The class of kids would be grateful but they would never know they were 24 hours from death.
I'm down with that, as well as an accidental hit and run, falling down some stairs,
drowning in the bath, ....... the streets can be a very dangerous place.
"I've been informed that there ARE a couple of QAnon supporters who are fairly regular posters in AJB."
Further to that. Maybe we should stop and search every Muslim? But hang on we can't do that as that would be racist and the police would be blamed for racial tensions in society.
On this subject in London knife crime is out of control, the perpetrators of the vast majority of stabbings are gang members made up of young black males. The met police were wholly damned when figures revealed they used stop and search powers on more young black males than anyone else. Black community leaders declared racism..... The police chief agreed and said it would be dealt with. Knife crime figures went up as a result of the police not searching young black males so as to be seen more fair!!! Why the police chief didn't say we search your sons because unfortunately they are the ones committing these crimes and it's your sons who are getting stabbed. So now we don't do enough to protect your sons but when we did we are racist!
I'm down with that, as well as an accidental hit and run, falling down some stairs,
drowning in the bath, ....... the streets can be a very dangerous place.
I think some of the 3000 odd terrorists might struggle for new recruits if they start disappearing at a healthy rate.
You might have more of an opinion of this than me about Operation Flavius which was an anti IRA initiative that culminated in Gibraltar in 1988 when 3 members of the IRA were shot dead by the sas, in doing so they prevented a huge car bomb being detonated. I applaud this sort of operation. Here the sas was slammed for their actions and by a European Court despite the court in Gibraltar finding their actions lawful
I'm down with that, as well as an accidental hit and run, falling down some stairs,
drowning in the bath, ....... the streets can be a very dangerous place.
I think some of the 3000 odd terrorists might struggle for new recruits if they start disappearing at a healthy rate.
Or perhaps hundreds or even thousands of "devout" (spelling?) British muslims mysteriously disapearing or dying would fit the narrative of IS perfectly, making their propaganda more beliveable and urgent to young muslims? Search ingen every muslim would be a big recruitment poster for radicals islamic groups.
I've read that recruitment for IRA went up, not down, after Bloody Sunday.
Comments
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"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
No, the military were almost brought in during the fuel crisis when protesters blockaded refinerys and caused a national shortage of petrol and diesel. Tony Blair authorised the British army without consulting the Queen which was frowned upon. Legally a prime minister doesn't need the Queens authority. It was mentioned that to mobilise the army against its own countrymen was an act of civil war!! Not done since Charles the first.
I think we this may be a good call.
Couldn't agree more TP. These baskets are known to the security forces but the policy seems to be monitor them from afar and intervene when they get wind something is going to happen...except as has been seen at Westminster and last night, they don't always know something is going down!
Time to kick these medieval barbarians and their sick insidious beliefs out of our country!
The problem is the law! we have intelligence but no evidence to arrest and press charges. We monitor them but until they actually do something or are known to posses items that could prove intention to commit terrorism there is precious little we can do. I sincerely believe the terrorism laws need amending to free up the police and security services to more robustly pursue these murdering scum without fear of repercussions. In recent times we've been more concerned with not offending certain minorities.
a suspect is very likely to be planning an attack of some sort ? That way there would always
be some sort of accountability.
People living in the West and at the same time hating it is a very serious problem, but so is undermining the rule of law.
Every action would have to go before a judge, to show surveillance records pointing to an
attack of some sort taking place.
In my book terrorists of all nationalities, politics and religions are all scumbags
And deserve all they get.
I agree, but I believe we should feel bad about it afterwards.
If you're on the Watched list of crazy extremists and a UK citizen, you should be in prison.
The politicians you trust so much?
The MI5?
Do you get on the list for actively supporting Wikileaks? I'm sure many in the government would like that.
If your brother was killed in an RAF bombing and you have expressed your anger on the net, should you be on the list?
I too would like to see extremists who hate our way of life and could possibly become a terrorist in prison or out of the county. But we have to be aware that this is dangerous territory.
Those who are not from the UK, can be deported. After all living here is not a right ?
This would free up resources to watch the homegrown terrorists.
Or.....
..we can do nothing , do the politically correct thing of loving everyone, taking no additional action, and then
Watch as more kids get blown up. Make a few statements about how it's not right but actually do nothing
To protect the public. Which is part of a government's job.
I'm the one against capital punishment, I'm the one who's most critical to let the government jail or deport people based on their opinions. It's a funny world.
People are held accountable for their actions, and I'm sure safe guards would be put in place.
On a similar note, I only came across this speech from Kevin Costner to the British Army, which
Is very moving it will bring a lump to your throat, for those who protect us.
https://youtu.be/RqSzBOv_OGg
So Abdul Azuz of 22, Slaughter Street is on the list, has intelligence reports on him and is known to be an active terrorist but is untouchable until he is part of an imminent plot or is found to have bomb making equipment on him or in his property. So next Wednesday he decides today is the day..... No one is watching him as they're are watching 900 different terrorists who seem more active lately. Abdul walks into a primary school which has zero security and blows himself and 30 children up, some of which are outside the fatal percussion range and are killed by being ripped to bits by the nails and ball bearings he packed into his bomb.
Let's rewind a day. next Tuesday morning a specialist judge signs an action order after reading extensive intelligence reports on Abdul, he's satisfied enough by what he's read. later that day a van pulls up outside 22 slaughter Street Abdul arrives home, is positively id'd and is bungled into the van......he's never seen again! Where did he go? .... Who knows, it may be presumed he travelled to Syria to fight for ISIS? who cares? Maybe immediate family. The class of kids would be grateful but they would never know they were 24 hours from death.
drowning in the bath, ....... the streets can be a very dangerous place.
On this subject in London knife crime is out of control, the perpetrators of the vast majority of stabbings are gang members made up of young black males. The met police were wholly damned when figures revealed they used stop and search powers on more young black males than anyone else. Black community leaders declared racism..... The police chief agreed and said it would be dealt with. Knife crime figures went up as a result of the police not searching young black males so as to be seen more fair!!! Why the police chief didn't say we search your sons because unfortunately they are the ones committing these crimes and it's your sons who are getting stabbed. So now we don't do enough to protect your sons but when we did we are racist!
.... just seem to disappear
Some swift justice.
Or perhaps hundreds or even thousands of "devout" (spelling?) British muslims mysteriously disapearing or dying would fit the narrative of IS perfectly, making their propaganda more beliveable and urgent to young muslims? Search ingen every muslim would be a big recruitment poster for radicals islamic groups.
I've read that recruitment for IRA went up, not down, after Bloody Sunday.