Also overrated is TB, Largo stinks, Fiona is boring and is THE most overrated henchwoman ever, Sean is a bit annoying by blackmailing the nurse to have sex w/ him, the jetpack is uselessly in one scene, it's BORING, the list goes ON and ON.
Welcome back JFF. It's been a while since you were last on. That said, how can you call TB (arguably one of the three best Bond films of all time) overrated?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
The book is better, and its remake was better. TB is a good film, but not the masterpiece its made out to be.
I think it was a masterpiece. NSNA, on the other hand, was anything but a masterpiece!
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Harry Palmer Somewhere in the past ...Posts: 325MI6 Agent
edited June 2006
LTK is still the most underrated Bond. Sorry had to say it to set the record straight. It's not just that it's risky (which in itself is neither here nor there); it's that it's intelligent.
Overrated: GF (good, but far from the best); TB (too much underwater action, and I agree that Largo is a forgettable villain); GE (Not bad, but somewhat middle of the road)...
AVTAK is neither overrated nor underrated: everybody but JFF knows exactly what it's worth.
Overrated: GF (good, but far from the best); TB (too much underwater action, and I agree that Largo is a forgettable villain); GE (Not bad, but somewhat middle of the road)...
GF and TB overated? Why do so many people consider these two films to be overrated? I may have to set up a "GF and TB are not overrated" fan club! That aside, how can you call Largo a forgettable villain? He had an eye patch, sharks and IMO he was brilliantly portrayed by Adolfo Celi. I really need to set up that fan club.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Thunderball is very slow. It has a great Bond feel and is probably the series at its peak, but they tried to put a little too much in and it does get a little dull at times. Those bloody underwater bits... <yawn>
Thunderball is very slow. It has a great Bond feel and is probably the series at its peak, but they tried to put a little too much in and it does get a little dull at times. Those bloody underwater bits... <yawn>
I'm with you on this one.The underwater stuff does drag a bit.It probably seemed a lot more novel in 1965.I'd seen everything from Jaws to The Abyss the first time I watched TB so the impact was bound to be slightly diminished.The underwater battle still holds up pretty well though.Connery is at his absolute peak in Thunderball though.Perfect.
TB....NO!!! GF and FRWL.....DEFINATELY. I have never understood what appeals to people in these movies... 8-)
GF and FRWL...overrated?!?!?
Shocking!
Wow, 0064. I'm truly shaken and stirred. Its one thing to slag two Bond classics. That's your opinion and all power to you.
But I am truly staggered by the fact that you cannot "understand" why these films are beloved by the majority of us. I mean, with all due respect, 0064, there MIGHT be something in FRWL and GF that convinces some of us that were are watching a good Bond ftlm.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility, you know, It appears you cannot be objective enough to acknowledge anything worthy in these films.
Again, 0064, that's your opinion, and there is no problem with that, but sweeping derogatory statements against two masterworks in the series must be honorably challenged, old boy.
TB....NO!!! GF and FRWL.....DEFINATELY. I have never understood what appeals to people in these movies... 8-)
GF and FRWL...overrated?!?!?
Shocking!
Wow, 0064. I'm truly shaken and stirred. Its one thing to slag two Bond classics. That's your opinion and all power to you.
But I am truly staggered by the fact that you cannot "understand" why these films are beloved by the majority of us. I mean, with all due respect, 0064, there MIGHT be something in FRWL and GF that convinces some of us that were are watching a good Bond ftlm.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility, you know, It appears you cannot be objective enough to acknowledge anything worthy in these films.
Again, 0064, that's your opinion, and there is no problem with that, but sweeping derogatory statements against two masterworks in the series must be honorably challenged, old boy.
I love FRWL and GF (mainly FRWL) and I seriously dont think that theyre over rated. They are not as action packed as laters - including TB, but they are very good spy style thrillers.
TB....NO!!! GF and FRWL.....DEFINATELY. I have never understood what appeals to people in these movies... 8-)
GF and FRWL...overrated?!?!?
Shocking!
Wow, 0064. I'm truly shaken and stirred. Its one thing to slag two Bond classics. That's your opinion and all power to you.
Well no- the word 'overrated' doesn't suggest that they're bad, just that they have faults which are often ignored by general consensus. I think they're both stunning films but do have faults and can be slightly overrated as a result.
It confuses me how someone can say that AVTAK is bad, yet 'Thunderball' is good!
TB is downright boring IMO, too much water, predictable plot, not enough action, it's just so boring. Right down there with MR and TWINE.
Yeah, that's another overrated one, TWINE. Only thing I actually liked about this film was Electra King.
I think GF and FRWL are overrated too, but I do think they are good movies, just not as good as made out to be!
But the main two for me are:
TB and
TWINE
Except for MR, these are by far my 2 least favourite Bond movies, yet many people love them? I just couldn't ever get into them personally. Just my opinion anyway.
For me, I would say it's Goldfinger. It's a terrific film, number five on my list, but I think it's overrated in the sense that it is held as basically infallible by so many. I don't know how anyone could watch the Fort Knox "gassing" scene and think that that movie is infallible.
I don't know how anyone could watch the Fort Knox "gassing" scene and think that that movie is infallible.
What's wrong with that scene? Yes, it may not be completely realistic, but within the context of the film, I think it can be perfectly explained. It's *deadly gas that is replaced with sleeping gas. Plus, in terms of its realism, I found it to be both enormously convincing with the universe that was GF and alot more realistic than some other Bond scenes (space scenes in MR for example.)
I suspect this is an example that could go into the 'I can accept, I can't accept' thread because I certainly could accept it.
*Note: I know nothing about chemistry.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
As far as I'm concerned, the Fort Knox gassing scene is fine. Yes, the soldiers do not all properly fall as if they were gassed. But for the pilots who were buzzing the area, and who could only have a passing glance, it looked realistic enough. And for us the audience, it should have been a tip off that the gas was not really killing them.
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
Goldfinger is definitely the most overrated Bond film. Yes, it's great-- but it's not that great.
Plus, in terms of its realism, I found it to be both enormously convincing with the universe that was GF and alot more realistic than some other Bond scenes (space scenes in MR for example.)
Comparing any scene's level of realism to that of the space scenes in MR (or, for that matter, the vast majority of scenes in Moonraker) does not say very positive things about said scene's level of realism.
I just find myself particularly bothered by this scene. Sorry: I love the rest of the film, pretty much, but i just can't handle it.
Goldeneye is my pick. It is a competent movie, sure, but all of the fun and intrigue of the former Bond movies was now replaced by unnecessary explosions and dumbed down dialogue- a trend that has yet to be reversed.
Yeah, that's true. Even the dialogue in CR seemed like it had an agenda other than real fun or plot development. Like "here's the M dissing Bond scene"
Yeah, that's true. Even the dialogue in CR seemed like it had an agenda other than real fun or plot development. Like "here's the M dissing Bond scene"
Exactly! I really hate that scene. We better be careful though; HH hasn't been around and if he finds out that his beloved CR is being criticised, he'll be back to defend it in no time. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I think CR is the most overrated Bond film. Before I explain why I think that, let me state I do think it is a good film, just not as great as some on the board would have you believe.
My problems are:
The poker game is unrealistic and actually boring. They play one hand and then take a break, play another hand and take a break. Players come and go as the please, the suspense just never builds. The card game in the book was far superior.
Bond being just about flat line dead, getting an injection and within seconds he has a funny comment and back to the game. How about just a little after effect.
The terorist trying to blow up the new airplane. He must not have had any plan, because I am sure his plan wasn't to get past security, get into a secure area, change into a maintenance uniform, walk to the runway, find a readily available fuel truck, knock out the driver, drive it across the runway and jump out as it plows into the plane. As an action scene it works because the action is good, but I was still bothered by the idiotic plan to blow up the plane. If Le Chiffre's money is riding on blowing up the plane I think he would have had a plan with a little less left to chance.
Eva Green as Vesper. The Vesper I pictured in the book was a gentle, confused, beautiful, woman. Eve Green's looks and her approach to the character were all wrong. She came across as too hard, both in her appearance and in her personality. For me, she was not the Vesper of the book.
The confusing end. Because I read the book it was clear to me what happened at the end, but many people who saw the movie did not understand why Vesper killed herself. This is an important part of the story and because it is told so poorly cinematically, we are reduced to M explaining everything to Bond so the audience understands it. As a general rule, if a main character in a movie has to explain everything we just saw so we understand it, the story was not well told.
Let me close by repeating that CR was a good Bond movie, just not the greatest.
I think the most overrated is The Spy Who Loved Me. I know that many people here consider it to be Moore's finest film, but I just don't see it. I see this film as an average, overblown re-hash of You Only Live Twice, which is a far, far better film by comparison. And what's with this Anglo-Soviet co-operation? Please! Don't they know that James Bond likes to work alone? And is XXX the most generic code name I've ever heard?
Has to be Thunderball for me- I genuinely find it a chore to sit through the whole way through. Those underwater scenes I find snoozeworthy...8-)
As for DAD, I didn't realise anybody rated it all that highly in the first place for it to be 'overrated'!:D When I first saw it in the cinema (it was the first Bond I saw in the cinema), I didn't think about it being especially bad or good, just average...but then I got the DVD and let's just say, I found it cringeworthy by that point. This was before I'd realised how hated it was amongst other fans- I remember it had good reviews in most UK magazines/newspapers etc. when it came out.
GoldenEye - A then fresh new Bond, Campell's directing, decent action scenes, and good casting choices saves the movie from it's very dull, dreary, and laughbly illogical script. The N64 game was far superior...
OHMSS - A once underrated film flying into the realm of overrated. Still a decent film actually, apart from Lazernby, and Blofeld's strange demands.
The Living Daylights - Dalton is just fine, but a non-plot, and uninspired villains sink the proceedings.
Thunderball - A solid set up, SPECTRE as a fully realized syndicate at it's best, but the underwater scenes drag the film down.
For Your Eyes Only - Being more grounded in reality does not necessarily mean better, with more uninspired badguys, and formulaic Cold War plot. Generally better than the other overrated Bond movies listed here, though.
Underrated
Tomorrow Never Dies - Bond's underlying ethos properly transplanted into the mid to late 90s, a simple yet logical plot, and Brosnan's best instalment on hindsight, with a rival female agent not being a watered down phoney like XXX or Jinx.
Moonraker - Sheer style over content, but a far fetched Bond movie done right. Production values and SFX holds up well after all these years, holding up much better than the cheap looking Die Another Day.
License to Kill - Very 1980s, but more inspired villains, and a straight revenge plot works better than Dalton's last flat effort.
Dr. No - Has aged remarkably well, the first fully mainstream sci-fi movie, and has a more timeless quality to it than the other Connery films.
You Only Live Twice - Features Ken Adams' very best design work and visionary genius, with it's comic book tone and ease of parody being it's main strength. The nasty Sean Connery looks bored but Akiko Wakabayashi, Akiko Wakabayashi, and Donald Pleasence elevates the movie (that is both very dark and very comical in tone at the same time).
The World is Not Enough - A Bond movie with a convoluted plot that doesn't completely fall apart, a genuine female mastermind, Brosnan's best performance, and some nice continuity with GE. The only genuine weak link was Denise Richards, but at least she was something to look at, unlike that dog, Halle Berry.
'Alright guard, begin the unnecessarily slow moving dipping mechanism...'
GoldenEye - A then fresh new Bond, Campell's directing, decent action scenes, and good casting choices saves the movie from it's very dull, dreary, and laughbly illogical script. The N64 game was far superior....
Agreed. Never has worked for me but there seems to be a lot of fans out there..
[OHMSS - A once underrated film flying into the realm of overrated. Still a decent film actually, apart from Lazernby, and Blofeld's strange demands.....
Madness! Its a love story. The emotional core of the story is set against a far fetched plot of germ warfare. If anything its still underratted and deserves its place just behind FRWL in the best Bond league.
[The Living Daylights - Dalton is just fine, but a non-plot, and uninspired villains sink the proceedings. ....
TLD deserves its top spot. Its my second favourite film. Its a Cold War thriller where everyone is using everyone else. The villains arent as scary as Blofeld but are just as dangerous as they try and use guile against the worlds spy forces and use everyone for their own gain.Its a dirty little film where everyone is using everyone else. What with superb stunts and action and a brilliant John Barry score. Its close to perfection.
[Thunderball - A solid set up, SPECTRE as a fully realized syndicate at it's best, but the underwater scenes drag the film down..
I've never understood the criticism of this one. I love the underwater scenes.Along with JBs music they have an othreworldly ethereal quality. One of the protagonists in the film is the ocean and its denizens (ie sharks). Wonderful film.
[[For Your Eyes Only - Being more grounded in reality does not necessarily mean better, with more uninspired badguys, and formulaic Cold War plot. Generally better than the other overrated Bond movies listed here, though. ..
FYEO has always been my favourite Bond. You have to remember the context. We'd had ten years of meglomaniac villains trying to destroy the world and MR took it to ridiculous proportions. FYEO came back down to earth with character/plot led story with excellent action scenes. We didnt need rotating space stations anymore.
And the villains seemed more believable. Kristatos is one of the great underratted series' villians. And remember 1980 there was great paranoia about the polaris defenses and unilateralist disarmament. The fact that the Russians could control our defenses was quite chilling.
Then there is the theme of revenge running through it. Melina goes after Gonzales, Bond goes after Locque for killing Lisl, Colombo goes after Kristatos.Everyone has motivation for their actions.
[The World is Not Enough - A Bond movie with a convoluted plot that doesn't completely fall apart, a genuine female mastermind, Brosnan's best performance, and some nice continuity with GE. The only genuine weak link was Denise Richards, but at least she was something to look at, unlike that dog, Halle Berry.
I have to disagree here. It stands 20th place of my films because I find it a storytelling mess. It really needed one more rewrite. Why did Mr Bull set off the bomb in the safehouse? His motivation was not explained.Just another big explosian scene. Several characters are overwritten such as Electra King who is so exposed as a character that she loses all menace as a villain. The climax is tired and uninspired and the action scenes are cumbersom (I'm thinking the caviar factory)
Comments
Most slandered? only by myself and Rogue... I wouldn't call AVTAK overrated.
The book is better, and its remake was better. TB is a good film, but not the masterpiece its made out to be.
Overrated: GF (good, but far from the best); TB (too much underwater action, and I agree that Largo is a forgettable villain); GE (Not bad, but somewhat middle of the road)...
AVTAK is neither overrated nor underrated: everybody but JFF knows exactly what it's worth.
I'm with you on this one.The underwater stuff does drag a bit.It probably seemed a lot more novel in 1965.I'd seen everything from Jaws to The Abyss the first time I watched TB so the impact was bound to be slightly diminished.The underwater battle still holds up pretty well though.Connery is at his absolute peak in Thunderball though.Perfect.
GF and FRWL...overrated?!?!?
Shocking!
Wow, 0064. I'm truly shaken and stirred. Its one thing to slag two Bond classics. That's your opinion and all power to you.
But I am truly staggered by the fact that you cannot "understand" why these films are beloved by the majority of us. I mean, with all due respect, 0064, there MIGHT be something in FRWL and GF that convinces some of us that were are watching a good Bond ftlm.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility, you know, It appears you cannot be objective enough to acknowledge anything worthy in these films.
Again, 0064, that's your opinion, and there is no problem with that, but sweeping derogatory statements against two masterworks in the series must be honorably challenged, old boy.
"How about a cigarette?"
"Not a chance".
GF and FRWL...overrated?!?!?
Shocking!
Wow, 0064. I'm truly shaken and stirred. Its one thing to slag two Bond classics. That's your opinion and all power to you.
But I am truly staggered by the fact that you cannot "understand" why these films are beloved by the majority of us. I mean, with all due respect, 0064, there MIGHT be something in FRWL and GF that convinces some of us that were are watching a good Bond ftlm.
It is not beyond the realm of possibility, you know, It appears you cannot be objective enough to acknowledge anything worthy in these films.
Again, 0064, that's your opinion, and there is no problem with that, but sweeping derogatory statements against two masterworks in the series must be honorably challenged, old boy.
"How about a cigarette?"
"Not a chance".
Well no- the word 'overrated' doesn't suggest that they're bad, just that they have faults which are often ignored by general consensus. I think they're both stunning films but do have faults and can be slightly overrated as a result.
It confuses me how someone can say that AVTAK is bad, yet 'Thunderball' is good!
TB is downright boring IMO, too much water, predictable plot, not enough action, it's just so boring. Right down there with MR and TWINE.
Yeah, that's another overrated one, TWINE. Only thing I actually liked about this film was Electra King.
I think GF and FRWL are overrated too, but I do think they are good movies, just not as good as made out to be!
But the main two for me are:
TB and
TWINE
Except for MR, these are by far my 2 least favourite Bond movies, yet many people love them? I just couldn't ever get into them personally. Just my opinion anyway.
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
I suspect this is an example that could go into the 'I can accept, I can't accept' thread because I certainly could accept it.
*Note: I know nothing about chemistry.
Comparing any scene's level of realism to that of the space scenes in MR (or, for that matter, the vast majority of scenes in Moonraker) does not say very positive things about said scene's level of realism.
I just find myself particularly bothered by this scene. Sorry: I love the rest of the film, pretty much, but i just can't handle it.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
My problems are:
The poker game is unrealistic and actually boring. They play one hand and then take a break, play another hand and take a break. Players come and go as the please, the suspense just never builds. The card game in the book was far superior.
Bond being just about flat line dead, getting an injection and within seconds he has a funny comment and back to the game. How about just a little after effect.
The terorist trying to blow up the new airplane. He must not have had any plan, because I am sure his plan wasn't to get past security, get into a secure area, change into a maintenance uniform, walk to the runway, find a readily available fuel truck, knock out the driver, drive it across the runway and jump out as it plows into the plane. As an action scene it works because the action is good, but I was still bothered by the idiotic plan to blow up the plane. If Le Chiffre's money is riding on blowing up the plane I think he would have had a plan with a little less left to chance.
Eva Green as Vesper. The Vesper I pictured in the book was a gentle, confused, beautiful, woman. Eve Green's looks and her approach to the character were all wrong. She came across as too hard, both in her appearance and in her personality. For me, she was not the Vesper of the book.
The confusing end. Because I read the book it was clear to me what happened at the end, but many people who saw the movie did not understand why Vesper killed herself. This is an important part of the story and because it is told so poorly cinematically, we are reduced to M explaining everything to Bond so the audience understands it. As a general rule, if a main character in a movie has to explain everything we just saw so we understand it, the story was not well told.
Let me close by repeating that CR was a good Bond movie, just not the greatest.
As for DAD, I didn't realise anybody rated it all that highly in the first place for it to be 'overrated'!:D When I first saw it in the cinema (it was the first Bond I saw in the cinema), I didn't think about it being especially bad or good, just average...but then I got the DVD and let's just say, I found it cringeworthy by that point. This was before I'd realised how hated it was amongst other fans- I remember it had good reviews in most UK magazines/newspapers etc. when it came out.
GoldenEye - A then fresh new Bond, Campell's directing, decent action scenes, and good casting choices saves the movie from it's very dull, dreary, and laughbly illogical script. The N64 game was far superior...
OHMSS - A once underrated film flying into the realm of overrated. Still a decent film actually, apart from Lazernby, and Blofeld's strange demands.
The Living Daylights - Dalton is just fine, but a non-plot, and uninspired villains sink the proceedings.
Thunderball - A solid set up, SPECTRE as a fully realized syndicate at it's best, but the underwater scenes drag the film down.
For Your Eyes Only - Being more grounded in reality does not necessarily mean better, with more uninspired badguys, and formulaic Cold War plot. Generally better than the other overrated Bond movies listed here, though.
Underrated
Tomorrow Never Dies - Bond's underlying ethos properly transplanted into the mid to late 90s, a simple yet logical plot, and Brosnan's best instalment on hindsight, with a rival female agent not being a watered down phoney like XXX or Jinx.
Moonraker - Sheer style over content, but a far fetched Bond movie done right. Production values and SFX holds up well after all these years, holding up much better than the cheap looking Die Another Day.
License to Kill - Very 1980s, but more inspired villains, and a straight revenge plot works better than Dalton's last flat effort.
Dr. No - Has aged remarkably well, the first fully mainstream sci-fi movie, and has a more timeless quality to it than the other Connery films.
You Only Live Twice - Features Ken Adams' very best design work and visionary genius, with it's comic book tone and ease of parody being it's main strength. The nasty Sean Connery looks bored but Akiko Wakabayashi, Akiko Wakabayashi, and Donald Pleasence elevates the movie (that is both very dark and very comical in tone at the same time).
The World is Not Enough - A Bond movie with a convoluted plot that doesn't completely fall apart, a genuine female mastermind, Brosnan's best performance, and some nice continuity with GE. The only genuine weak link was Denise Richards, but at least she was something to look at, unlike that dog, Halle Berry.
Agreed. Never has worked for me but there seems to be a lot of fans out there..
Madness! Its a love story. The emotional core of the story is set against a far fetched plot of germ warfare. If anything its still underratted and deserves its place just behind FRWL in the best Bond league.
TLD deserves its top spot. Its my second favourite film. Its a Cold War thriller where everyone is using everyone else. The villains arent as scary as Blofeld but are just as dangerous as they try and use guile against the worlds spy forces and use everyone for their own gain.Its a dirty little film where everyone is using everyone else. What with superb stunts and action and a brilliant John Barry score. Its close to perfection.
I've never understood the criticism of this one. I love the underwater scenes.Along with JBs music they have an othreworldly ethereal quality. One of the protagonists in the film is the ocean and its denizens (ie sharks). Wonderful film.
FYEO has always been my favourite Bond. You have to remember the context. We'd had ten years of meglomaniac villains trying to destroy the world and MR took it to ridiculous proportions. FYEO came back down to earth with character/plot led story with excellent action scenes. We didnt need rotating space stations anymore.
And the villains seemed more believable. Kristatos is one of the great underratted series' villians. And remember 1980 there was great paranoia about the polaris defenses and unilateralist disarmament. The fact that the Russians could control our defenses was quite chilling.
Then there is the theme of revenge running through it. Melina goes after Gonzales, Bond goes after Locque for killing Lisl, Colombo goes after Kristatos.Everyone has motivation for their actions.
I have to disagree here. It stands 20th place of my films because I find it a storytelling mess. It really needed one more rewrite. Why did Mr Bull set off the bomb in the safehouse? His motivation was not explained.Just another big explosian scene. Several characters are overwritten such as Electra King who is so exposed as a character that she loses all menace as a villain. The climax is tired and uninspired and the action scenes are cumbersom (I'm thinking the caviar factory)