Some of the Connery films. The first 3 are superb but DAF is awful, Thunderball is dull in places and the racial stereotypes in YOLT are hilarious/offensive in equal measure.
I just can't get into Brosnan's films either.
Underrated: I think some people are too harsh on Octopussy, and NSNA and TMWTGG aren't the train wrecks that some people have said.
The most overrated Bond film? Definitely Casino Royale. Don't get me wrong, I loved it, but so many people think it has saved the Bond series, when the series was just fine before it's release.
Sweepy the CatHalifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
Die Another Day overrated? I think it is one of the most underrated films in the 007 series. I love the film, but so many others think it is unrealistic. It was slightly beyond reality, but only because of the Vanquish's invisibility device. But I enjoy a little imagination in Bond films! Die Another Day is Brosnan's best film!
Sweepy the CatHalifax, West Yorkshire, EnglaPosts: 986MI6 Agent
I enjoyed the first 30mins vbut after that things went downhill.
Pro's - Good Pre-Creds sequence
Bond elements
Con's - Gunbarrel
Theme Song
Jinx
Bond villains
Gadgets
CGI
The most overrated Bond film? Definitely Casino Royale. Don't get me wrong, I loved it, but so many people think it has saved the Bond series, when the series was just fine before it's release.
It was doing well financially but there was such a horrendous backlash about DAD critically (just read the internet forums) that the producers had to change direction and fast.
One thing Cubby taught Barbara is listen to the fans.
Personally I think DAD is an abomination. A wart on the end of the nose of the franchise. A metaphorical dog turd that if the franchise had continued this way it would have easier to put out of its misery.
Live and Let Die- I found it boring to be honest when i watched it. Probably my least favourite.
For Your Eyes only- Started off well, but the middle was boring and i felt the ending was pretty anti-climatic. It was working towards some big final battle, but all they do is pounce on the guards when they're sleeping. And i didn't really like the part where Bond was getting beaten by those ice hockey players. I wanted him to just turn around and shoot them. It would have been a bit extreme though.
Thunderball- the underwater scenes ruined it for me. Watching people underwater trying to move a missile for 10 minutes is not interesting. I did like the final battle though.
Dr No- I thought the book was much better than the film. I found the story quite slow as well to be honest. And yet again the ending was kind of anti-climatic for me.
Bear in mind though that my favourite bond films are usually the ones with a massive shoot up at the end ie. you only live twice, the spy who loved me, Moonraker (yes i loved moonraker), Goldeneye and even the living daylights. But i do also like the films with not a lot of action like the man with the golden gun and a view to a kill. Maybe it was because the bond girls were so hot in those films.
I want to say Die Another Day as i can't stand that film, but i don't believe it was really ever 'rated' as far as the Bonds go, so i'll choose another.
Both of Daltons and The World Is Not Enough for me.
Have to say it's currently Casino Royale for me. Amazing how the general public swung so much behind Craig, and slightly sinister too imo.
I agree with Colonel Shatner's choices mostly.
The public didn't need to 'swing behind Craig' though. If you'd seen any of his previous work before he was elected as the new Bond, you'd realise what a good actor he is. Casino Royale is a brilliant film. I certainly wouldn't say its the most overrated, but respect your opinion of course.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Amazing how the general public swung so much behind Craig, and slightly sinister too imo.
Yes! :v 'Sinister' is exactly the correct word, NP, you're so right! Thank God someone else agrees with me...I've been telling everyone here at Sunnydale the very same thing...but I'm beginning to suspect that they're just patronizing me. Last night, when I told them that Amy Winehouse was in the tree outside my second-floor room, shining a laser pen on my ceiling, they just nodded and gave me another injection X-(
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
By sinister I only mean that it's like Adolf Hitler. You see, Hitler was derided as a grubby corporal initially. Then, once the middle classes lost their savings and turned to him, they had been 'proved' wrong and any criticism subsequently became invalid. Whereas once someone starts off as the ideal - like Barack Obama for instance - then any bit of critisism subsequently takes its toll.
Hope that explains things.
Edit: Oops, your German name Loeffs makes my analogy even more near the knuckle than I originally intended... ah well, you can have a chance to respond...
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Edit: Oops, your German name Loeffs makes my analogy even more near the knuckle than I originally intended... ah well, you can have a chance to respond...
No, thank you, as the honest, reflexive response I've got poised at my fingertips---satisfying and cathartic though it would be to share with you---would likely get me banned from the site.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Loeffs, what's the matter with you? You seem to have taken over from highhopes as the CR fundamentalist. This is an ajb discussion site, it means people pop up and give their views on things. There's an entire thread of people bashing AVTAK all over again, it's a film I like but I don't get in a huff about it.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Loeffs, what's the matter with you? You seem to have taken over from highhopes as the CR fundamentalist. This is an ajb discussion site, it means people pop up and give their views on things. There's an entire thread of people bashing AVTAK all over again, it's a film I like but I don't get in a huff about it.
What's the matter with me?
That's right...this is a James Bond discussion site, Einstein. If you think this has anything---at all---to do with CR, you're a lot less bright than I gave you credit for. Read my PM...and SHUT UP.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Lately I have noted a lack of civility on this site, as discussions that should be devoted to James Bond are derailed into insults and political areas that just don't belong in a place where our one common interest is James Bond.
I really enjoy spirited disagreements. Like our common interest in oo7, they are what make the site fascinating. So argue on the site and not in PM's...
What really gets awful are references to Hitler, Obama, etc... and similiar personal politics. Minds are not likely to be changed on these subjects - and they have nothing to do with James Bond.
Back on topic......
I might even agree that Casino Royale might take the title of "Most Overrated" because it's the most recent film and quite popular with the general (non bond fan) audiances.
IMO though it is the best film outside the original four entries that cracked open the spy craze in the 1960's. I think as time rolls by it may well end up higher in fans esteem than it is now, alot like OHMSS has risen.
I might even agree that Casino Royale might take the title of "Most Overrated" because it's the most recent film and quite popular with the general (non bond fan) audiances.
IMO though it is the best film outside the original four entries that cracked open the spy craze in the 1960's. I think as time rolls by it may well end up higher in fans esteem than it is now, alot like OHMSS has risen.
I absolutely think it's fair to say CR is overrated---I wouldn't say it, but I can certainly see that point of view. It broke with several longstanding traditions, cast an unconventional choice as the lead and alienated a segment of fandom. It's hardly surprising that praise from those who enjoyed it would be disagreed with.
I'd have to go with FYEO. Ostensibly a 'back to basics' Bond, it IMO begins what I consider to be a streak of films* inconsistent in both tone and style---forcing moments of (attempted) hilarity in-between some very effective scenes and cool Bond moments---a streak that would continue until Brozzer finally got the gig in '95. While Broz wasn't perfect, his films were a good deal more cohesive in my opinion.
I don't consider CR overrated because, to me, it speaks with the most consistent and unified narrative voice since Lazenby had his one-off, and thus has earned its praise the hard way.
* I blame John Glen
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
though not much because we don't seem to like each other.
No...we don't.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
GF-is overrated to me, alittle to slow
of a movie where Bond is a prisoner
for half the movie and not really doing
anything
TB-a little slow too, in the underwater
parts
GF? TB?
I am absolutely shocked! Am I really the only person who thinks that, if anything, GF and TB are underrated?
No,Dan--I agree with you and BigZilcho in thinking that these are great movies.:)
I suspect some of the reasons the earlier Sean Connery films might not be popular with everyone is because they're each very much films of their times.
It's interesting to realize that these first four films were made less than ten years after Fleming began writing his 007 novels.And at one point there had never been a series of films like the Bonds.The earliest films clearly drew their inspiration from the Fleming books they were based on(and also from other movies like North by Northwest,Foreign Correspondent,The Mask of Dimitrios,Night Train to Munich,Topkapi,etc.)--and as a result they were fresh and different.
The Goldfinger story isn't about 007 leading a group of commandos to the villain's hideout and blowing the place up, but is,instead, about 007 using his wits to escape Goldfinger and thwart his effort to rob Fort Knox.It's a suspense film-not an action piece.
And Thunderball is another suspense film--in this case with 007 outwitting terrorists armed with nuclear devices.When Thunderball was made(1965) this was an original plot--it's been imitated ever since.Like Goldfinger,Thunderball.I find nothing wrong with that--nor do the underwater sequences bore me(car chases and explosions,do,however--along with 007 becoming Inspector Gadget and having a special doodad for every occasion ).
I agree that DAD is seriously flawed, but I don't get the sense that it has a lot of support amongst Bond fans and is relatively lowly rated. I really enjoy the first half, but once we get to the Ice Hotel it's down hill all the way... & by the end it's downright embarrassing. I rememeber seeing it in the cinema upon release and by the time we get to the terrible CGI the audience were laughing, not laughing with, but laughing at it !
I recently saw Goldfinger on the big screen and was once again struck that it is very overrated.Bond has little to do once he has been captured and he seems a bit inconsequential to proceedings. I found the pacing poor in the middle. It does have some truly iconic moments, and I love the sets and of course the car, but these are extraneous things, the film for me is not about the character and Bond is in danger of being swamped by them.
Well on that subject DAD gets four stars from Radio Times, which flies in the face of most opinion. YOLT gets five stars, which contradicts many on this board.
Of course it depends on your criteria. And some of the older films have elements seen in subsequent movies so lack the surprise factor for newcomers.
I'm of the view that the more serious films get overrated by fans on this board and others – OHMSS, CR though not strangely TLD or LTK much – because fans take the character seriously and appreciate a treatment that does the same. Similar in a way to Nolan's new Batman films. I'd argue that they're voting as much for the intention than the execution.
I'm of the view that the more serious films get overrated by fans on this board and others – OHMSS, CR though not strangely TLD or LTK much – because fans take the character seriously and appreciate a treatment that does the same.
Are you suggesting that we shouldn't take them seriously? I think CR to be the best Bond film of all time, because a)I found the interpretation of Bond, IMO to be a real, thinking, feeling Bond, who for once got hurt and didn't get the girl at the end. (This is one reason I also happen to like OHMSS)
b) Craig is my favourite actor, so I guess I'm always biased in that respect
c) I found the dialog and script to be something I could loose myself in, and was not peppered with clever one liners, that IMO no one could come up with in the circumstances they did.(DAD)
I bought into the whole set up of CR, the plot, the characters and the stunts. All were done so you could almost believe that they could be.
I found GF to be one of the most overrated Bond Movies as I didn't get it. I didn't like the plot, the villain, and the girl. Is that wrong? Well I guess only to hard core GF fans I suppose.
But that's the beauty of this franchise, there is one movie for everyone to love and one movie for everyone to hate, the fact they are not the same ones...well cheers to that! {[]
She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
Not that you should or shouldn't Lexi. Different Strokes... Others don't take him seriously, just want a laugh. I don't think there are many laughs to be had in OHMSS (Lazenby doesn't have the delivery) or in CR (Craig isn't bad at it - he seems better in QoS - but the one-liners/jokes aren't key to it).
Of course there are loads of jokes in TMWTGG, FYEO or DAD, but I don't like 'em at all, so it's not like I'd blindly go for a jocular Bond movie.
Context counts a lot, I hated a (seven-eighths empty) cinema showing of (a creaky old print of) TB, watched the Ultimate Edition recently and liked it a lot.
Context counts a lot, I hated a (seven-eighths empty) cinema showing of (a creaky old print of) TB, watched the Ultimate Edition recently and liked it a lot.
so there's hope for you yet NP. In 15 years time, you could watch CR and think, hey this is a pretty good movie!
She's worth whatever chaos she brings to the table and you know it. ~ Mark Anthony
Could happen. I'm always up for that. I watched the EON-ised NSNA recently, all prepared to like it. I didn't, sadly, but I loved large sections of OHMSS... esp the Xmassy stuff.
I found GF to be one of the most overrated Bond Movies as I didn't get it. I didn't like the plot, the villain, and the girl. Is that wrong?
Depends who you are asking. To me, yeah it's wrong. It's classic Bond and it's classic Connery. Two things that I completely appreciate as a Bond fan.
There are as many answers to this question as there are Bond films, really. Everyone has a least favourite Bond (or at least one they don't particularly care for)---and when it garners a certain amount of praise (deemed excessive by the person in question) it becomes 'overrated.' Conversely, if a particularly dear favourite receives an objectionable number of snubs, by definition it is 'underrated.'
The diversity of Bond fandom is such that every Bond film (and novel) is both overrated and underrated to someone. After lengthy research and hotly contested hand-to-hand combat, I've identified this phenomenon as:
The Theory Of Bond RelativityTM
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Comments
Some of the Connery films. The first 3 are superb but DAF is awful, Thunderball is dull in places and the racial stereotypes in YOLT are hilarious/offensive in equal measure.
I just can't get into Brosnan's films either.
Underrated: I think some people are too harsh on Octopussy, and NSNA and TMWTGG aren't the train wrecks that some people have said.
dad
AND
cr
Die Another Day overrated? I think it is one of the most underrated films in the 007 series. I love the film, but so many others think it is unrealistic. It was slightly beyond reality, but only because of the Vanquish's invisibility device. But I enjoy a little imagination in Bond films! Die Another Day is Brosnan's best film!
I enjoyed the first 30mins vbut after that things went downhill.
Pro's - Good Pre-Creds sequence
Bond elements
Con's - Gunbarrel
Theme Song
Jinx
Bond villains
Gadgets
CGI
So thats 2:6
It was doing well financially but there was such a horrendous backlash about DAD critically (just read the internet forums) that the producers had to change direction and fast.
One thing Cubby taught Barbara is listen to the fans.
Personally I think DAD is an abomination. A wart on the end of the nose of the franchise. A metaphorical dog turd that if the franchise had continued this way it would have easier to put out of its misery.
For Your Eyes only- Started off well, but the middle was boring and i felt the ending was pretty anti-climatic. It was working towards some big final battle, but all they do is pounce on the guards when they're sleeping. And i didn't really like the part where Bond was getting beaten by those ice hockey players. I wanted him to just turn around and shoot them. It would have been a bit extreme though.
Thunderball- the underwater scenes ruined it for me. Watching people underwater trying to move a missile for 10 minutes is not interesting. I did like the final battle though.
Dr No- I thought the book was much better than the film. I found the story quite slow as well to be honest. And yet again the ending was kind of anti-climatic for me.
Bear in mind though that my favourite bond films are usually the ones with a massive shoot up at the end ie. you only live twice, the spy who loved me, Moonraker (yes i loved moonraker), Goldeneye and even the living daylights. But i do also like the films with not a lot of action like the man with the golden gun and a view to a kill. Maybe it was because the bond girls were so hot in those films.
I want to say Die Another Day as i can't stand that film, but i don't believe it was really ever 'rated' as far as the Bonds go, so i'll choose another.
Both of Daltons and The World Is Not Enough for me.
I agree with Colonel Shatner's choices mostly.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
If the nurse hadn't just given me my hourly sedative, I'd likely be recoiling in shock...
Yes! :v 'Sinister' is exactly the correct word, NP, you're so right! Thank God someone else agrees with me...I've been telling everyone here at Sunnydale the very same thing...but I'm beginning to suspect that they're just patronizing me. Last night, when I told them that Amy Winehouse was in the tree outside my second-floor room, shining a laser pen on my ceiling, they just nodded and gave me another injection X-(
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
By sinister I only mean that it's like Adolf Hitler. You see, Hitler was derided as a grubby corporal initially. Then, once the middle classes lost their savings and turned to him, they had been 'proved' wrong and any criticism subsequently became invalid. Whereas once someone starts off as the ideal - like Barack Obama for instance - then any bit of critisism subsequently takes its toll.
Hope that explains things.
Edit: Oops, your German name Loeffs makes my analogy even more near the knuckle than I originally intended...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Ah yes. Much clearer now 8-)
No, thank you, as the honest, reflexive response I've got poised at my fingertips---satisfying and cathartic though it would be to share with you---would likely get me banned from the site.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Roger Moore 1927-2017
What's the matter with me?
That's right...this is a James Bond discussion site, Einstein. If you think this has anything---at all---to do with CR, you're a lot less bright than I gave you credit for. Read my PM...and SHUT UP.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Roger Moore 1927-2017
What really gets awful are references to Hitler, Obama, etc... and similiar personal politics. Minds are not likely to be changed on these subjects - and they have nothing to do with James Bond.
Back on topic......
I might even agree that Casino Royale might take the title of "Most Overrated" because it's the most recent film and quite popular with the general (non bond fan) audiances.
IMO though it is the best film outside the original four entries that cracked open the spy craze in the 1960's. I think as time rolls by it may well end up higher in fans esteem than it is now, alot like OHMSS has risen.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I absolutely think it's fair to say CR is overrated---I wouldn't say it,
I'd have to go with FYEO. Ostensibly a 'back to basics' Bond, it IMO begins what I consider to be a streak of films* inconsistent in both tone and style---forcing moments of (attempted) hilarity in-between some very effective scenes and cool Bond moments---a streak that would continue until Brozzer finally got the gig in '95. While Broz wasn't perfect, his films were a good deal more cohesive in my opinion.
I don't consider CR overrated because, to me, it speaks with the most consistent and unified narrative voice since Lazenby had his one-off, and thus has earned its praise the hard way.
* I blame John Glen
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
No...we don't.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
No,Dan--I agree with you and BigZilcho in thinking that these are great movies.:)
I suspect some of the reasons the earlier Sean Connery films might not be popular with everyone is because they're each very much films of their times.
It's interesting to realize that these first four films were made less than ten years after Fleming began writing his 007 novels.And at one point there had never been a series of films like the Bonds.The earliest films clearly drew their inspiration from the Fleming books they were based on(and also from other movies like North by Northwest,Foreign Correspondent,The Mask of Dimitrios,Night Train to Munich,Topkapi,etc.)--and as a result they were fresh and different.
The Goldfinger story isn't about 007 leading a group of commandos to the villain's hideout and blowing the place up, but is,instead, about 007 using his wits to escape Goldfinger and thwart his effort to rob Fort Knox.It's a suspense film-not an action piece.
And Thunderball is another suspense film--in this case with 007 outwitting terrorists armed with nuclear devices.When Thunderball was made(1965) this was an original plot--it's been imitated ever since.Like Goldfinger,Thunderball.I find nothing wrong with that--nor do the underwater sequences bore me(car chases and explosions,do,however--along with 007 becoming Inspector Gadget and having a special doodad for every occasion ).
I recently saw Goldfinger on the big screen and was once again struck that it is very overrated.Bond has little to do once he has been captured and he seems a bit inconsequential to proceedings. I found the pacing poor in the middle. It does have some truly iconic moments, and I love the sets and of course the car, but these are extraneous things, the film for me is not about the character and Bond is in danger of being swamped by them.
Seems a Bond fan will deem a movie "underrated" primarily if they really love it, and vice versa.
Of course it depends on your criteria. And some of the older films have elements seen in subsequent movies so lack the surprise factor for newcomers.
I'm of the view that the more serious films get overrated by fans on this board and others – OHMSS, CR though not strangely TLD or LTK much – because fans take the character seriously and appreciate a treatment that does the same. Similar in a way to Nolan's new Batman films. I'd argue that they're voting as much for the intention than the execution.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Are you suggesting that we shouldn't take them seriously? I think CR to be the best Bond film of all time, because a)I found the interpretation of Bond, IMO to be a real, thinking, feeling Bond, who for once got hurt and didn't get the girl at the end. (This is one reason I also happen to like OHMSS)
b) Craig is my favourite actor, so I guess I'm always biased in that respect
c) I found the dialog and script to be something I could loose myself in, and was not peppered with clever one liners, that IMO no one could come up with in the circumstances they did.(DAD)
I bought into the whole set up of CR, the plot, the characters and the stunts. All were done so you could almost believe that they could be.
I found GF to be one of the most overrated Bond Movies as I didn't get it. I didn't like the plot, the villain, and the girl. Is that wrong? Well I guess only to hard core GF fans I suppose.
But that's the beauty of this franchise, there is one movie for everyone to love and one movie for everyone to hate, the fact they are not the same ones...well cheers to that! {[]
Of course there are loads of jokes in TMWTGG, FYEO or DAD, but I don't like 'em at all, so it's not like I'd blindly go for a jocular Bond movie.
Context counts a lot, I hated a (seven-eighths empty) cinema showing of (a creaky old print of) TB, watched the Ultimate Edition recently and liked it a lot.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
so there's hope for you yet NP. In 15 years time, you could watch CR and think, hey this is a pretty good movie!
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Depends who you are asking. To me, yeah it's wrong. It's classic Bond and it's classic Connery. Two things that I completely appreciate as a Bond fan.
There are as many answers to this question as there are Bond films, really. Everyone has a least favourite Bond (or at least one they don't particularly care for)---and when it garners a certain amount of praise (deemed excessive by the person in question) it becomes 'overrated.' Conversely, if a particularly dear favourite receives an objectionable number of snubs, by definition it is 'underrated.'
The diversity of Bond fandom is such that every Bond film (and novel) is both overrated and underrated to someone. After lengthy research and hotly contested hand-to-hand combat, I've identified this phenomenon as:
The Theory Of Bond RelativityTM
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM