TSWLM/TND Connection

Colombo

Why is it that Tomorrow Never Dies is so controversial and The Spy Who Loved me is such a highly-revered classic? The two are carbon copies of each other (granted, TSWLM actually has a plot, whereas TND is almost non-stop action with no substance). The parallels between the two movies are quite apparent:

LEADING LADY:
- In both movies, the leading lady is a high-ranking military officer/agent from the major Communist power of the times. In TSWLM, it's the USSR, in TND, it's the PRC.

MAIN VILLAIN:
- Both movies have rather disappointing main villains. They are both totally unbelievable billionaire megalomaniacs and grossly unrealistic.

HENCHMAN:

- Both movies have invincible (and gigantic) supermen henchmen that are practically invincible.

LACK OF PRECISION:

- In TND, Bond simply mows down faceless henchmen with a submachine gun. Much like the big gun fight in TSWLM onboard the Liparus, and somewhat similar to Stromberg's anticlimactic and overly-violent death.

UNCONVINCING RELATIONSHIP, EVEN BY BOND STANDARDS:

- In TSWLM, Amasova vowed to kill Bond upon finding out that 007 was behind the death of her Russian lover. Just when she's about to put a bullet into her boyfriend's murderer, Bond convinces her to make out with him. This is somewhat similar to Bond's unconvincing relationship w/ Col. Lin in that who could possibly want her??? She treats Bond like scum and tries to act independent and tough (but gushes whenever 007 winks)...not to mention she looks like Jackie Chan with a wig.

In essence, both films are comic-book style spoof action movies. What gets me is why so many people think TSWLM is the best thing since sliced bread, while so many others think that TND is even worse than Godfather III. Does anyone have any ideas as to why that's the case?

Stromberg1

Hey, you can't compare these two just because of a few similarities. TSWLM was way better. I agree with you on the unbelievable villian Carter, but Stromberg was great. As for Jaws, he was the best henchman ever. Even though TND does have a few flaws it is still a good movie.

Sir Hillary Bray

Let's go point by point...

Quoting Colombo:
...granted, TSWLM actually has a plot, whereas TND is almost non-stop action with no substance...

That's a rather significant difference, wouldn't you say?

Quoting Colombo:
In both movies, the leading lady is a high-ranking military officer/agent from the major Communist power of the times. In TSWLM, it's the USSR, in TND, it's the PRC.

True. I personally like Wai Lin and her portrayal by Michelle Yeoh. However, Anya is given a back story of revenge that provides her with extra motivation -- and provides us with a richer story.

Quoting Colombo:
Both movies have rather disappointing main villains. They are both totally unbelievable billionaire megalomaniacs and grossly unrealistic.

"Disappointing" is a matter of opinion. I'll grant you both are unrealistic, but most Bond villains are. The difference to me is in the performances and settings. Curt Jurgens plays the part as an obsessed weirdo with endless resources at his disposal. His lair is spectacular and in a stunning location. Pryce plays Carver as a flamboyant twit, with mannerisms more suited to Austin Powers films. His "lairs" are office buildings in relatively nondescript cities (no hate mail, please -- I'm sure that Hamburg and Vietnam are better than portrayed).

Quoting Colombo:
Both movies have invincible (and gigantic) supermen henchmen that are practically invincible.

Come on. Jaws is absolutely iconic. Love him or hate him, his height, teeth and Wile E. Coyote-like indestructibility make him memorable to anyone who has seen him. Stamper is a big, blond guy with nothing to distinguish him except his muscles and one good line ("I owe you an unpleasant death").

Quoting Colombo:
In TND, Bond simply mows down faceless henchmen with a submachine gun. Much like the big gun fight in TSWLM onboard the Liparus, and somewhat similar to Stromberg's anticlimactic and overly-violent death.

In TND, the shoot-em-up factor is much more prevalent. Just about everybody seems to die at long range from gunfire.

Quoting Colombo:
In TSWLM, Amasova vowed to kill Bond upon finding out that 007 was behind the death of her Russian lover. Just when she's about to put a bullet into her boyfriend's murderer, Bond convinces her to make out with him.

If you're looking for airtight love angles, Bond films ain't for you. Pussy, MayDay, Pam -- all seemingly tough chicks who melt like butter when 007 lays his mitts on them. So, I agree that TSWLM doesn't stand apart from TND on this score, but neither to most any of the films.

Quoting Colombo:
This is somewhat similar to Bond's unconvincing relationship w/ Col. Lin in that who could possibly want her??? She treats Bond like scum and tries to act independent and tough (but gushes whenever 007 winks)...not to mention she looks like Jackie Chan with a wig.

Well, you're kind of arguing against yourself here, aren't you? Personally, I find no problem with her, although people like Ourumov will certainly disagree with me.

In essence, both films are comic-book style spoof action movies.

Save but a handful, they all are.

Anyway, that's my answer.

Karl Stromberg

Quoting Colombo:
In TSWLM, Amasova vowed to kill Bond upon finding out that 007 was behind the death of her Russian lover. Just when she's about to put a bullet into her boyfriend's murderer, Bond convinces her to make out with him.

This is a pretty heavy over-simplification. For a start, between Anya pointing the gun at Bond and shooting the cork of the champagne, Bond doesn't say anything to convince her not to kill him. Bond and Anya were already lovers prior to Anya discovering that he had killed her previous lover. Bond rescues Anya from Atlantis even though he doesn't have to, and I suspect that Anya whilst on Atlantis with Stromberg, Anya did not believe that Bond would come back for her. When Anya confronts Bond with the picture of her dead lover, Bond says "People in our line of business get killed". Anya is an experienced agent who must realise that point over time. She then realises that in rescuing her, Bond is actually a good person and not the evil monster that she may have made him out to be, and is then able to forgive him, and return to being his lover.

Stranger things have happened at sea, and since they were at sea, it seems fine for strange things to happen.

Robinson

The biggest similarity of the 2 movies that may have been missed is that the villian in both cases is trying to play 2 countries off against one another to bring about a war. This idea though not not fresh even in TSWLM, as it had originally been used for YOLT when SPECTRE stole the American and Soviet Space Probes, so that they would both blame one another for the theft. Similarly, Stromberg does exactly the same thing except with Submarines.
In TND, the 2 nations are now Britain and China and the villian's aim is not worldwide political domination, but just exclusive media coverage in China (a form of domination).

Like with YOLT, TND has an oriental setting and sees Bond team up with the usual attractive female "enemy" agent, like in TSWLM.

TND seems to be the offspring of YOLT and TSWLM. Many ideas of both movies are clearly interwoven into it and it is perhaps this lack of originality that has seen the Bond's critised over the years (also see Max Zorin's blatant attempt to copy Goldfinger's Operation Grandslam in AVTAK).

Tobias

Colombo wrote:

Why is it that Tomorrow Never Dies is so controversial and The Spy Who Loved me is such a highly-revered classic? The two are carbon copies of each other (granted, TSWLM actually has a plot, whereas TND is almost non-stop action with no substance). The parallels between the two movies are quite apparent:

LEADING LADY:
- In both movies, the leading lady is a high-ranking military officer/agent from the major Communist power of the times. In TSWLM, it's the USSR, in TND, it's the PRC.

MAIN VILLAIN:
- Both movies have rather disappointing main villains. They are both totally unbelievable billionaire megalomaniacs and grossly unrealistic.

HENCHMAN:

- Both movies have invincible (and gigantic) supermen henchmen that are practically invincible.

LACK OF PRECISION:

- In TND, Bond simply mows down faceless henchmen with a submachine gun. Much like the big gun fight in TSWLM onboard the Liparus, and somewhat similar to Stromberg's anticlimactic and overly-violent death.

UNCONVINCING RELATIONSHIP, EVEN BY BOND STANDARDS:

- In TSWLM, Amasova vowed to kill Bond upon finding out that 007 was behind the death of her Russian lover. Just when she's about to put a bullet into her boyfriend's murderer, Bond convinces her to make out with him. This is somewhat similar to Bond's unconvincing relationship w/ Col. Lin in that who could possibly want her??? She treats Bond like scum and tries to act independent and tough (but gushes whenever 007 winks)...not to mention she looks like Jackie Chan with a wig.

In essence, both films are comic-book style spoof action movies. What gets me is why so many people think TSWLM is the best thing since sliced bread, while so many others think that TND is even worse than Godfather III. Does anyone have any ideas as to why that's the case?

I like your comment about the wig

8420

All i can say is TOMORROW NEVER DIES RULES and THE SPY WHO LOVED ME WELL DOESN'T. )

Alex

In reply to the scene in Atlantis' escape pod.

Since Bond and Anya were thrown together as reluctant allies - the pair did brave all of Stromberg's perils in unity after all ..

Bond risked his neck to return for her. (Something he didn't have to do) - So I don't think it's terribly unrealistic for Anya to forgo her attitude of dominance just this once. Besides, he had the '52.