Your point is well made, Bond Agent, and the quoted comments from Popov are enlightening. But I still don't quite understand. Are you arguing that Popov was the real James Bond, or that he wasn't? And why would a shadowy cartel bother to block your website?
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
Bond Agent seemed clear enough to say that Popov was a significant inspiration for James Bond, among several others. I therefore take that to mean that Popov was not quite the "real James Bond," on a point-by-point basis in the same manner that the Johnny Fontaine character of The Godfather novel is suppossed to be Frank Sinatra almost verbatim.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
There's a new book out about Popov called "Codename Tricycle" (details to come) and it's a damn good read. Dusko is especially notable for his steely nerve. I'm also interested in other "real Bonds" and Fleming cronies such as Patrick Dalziel-Job and Bernard DeCourcy-Ireland, who was a member of Fleming's 30 AU force, and Peter Fleming's espionage activities. Can't seem to find much info on these characters.
Ditto for Richard Fleming, supposedly the "Quiet Fleming" who stayed home to mind the family banking business. The mail I'm getting suggests he was in fact the real espionage mastermind, working behing the scenes, on the most delicate matters, a figure analagous to Mycroft, Sherlock Holmes' smarter brother.
There are a few candidates whose lives they say Fleming borrowed, like the previously mentioned Sid Reilley. There have certainly been some incredibly gifted spies through the ages, like the Russian's Richard Sorge and Britain's Eddie Chapman during World War II.
But I'm afraid spies in real-life are just not that glamorous -- think "The Spy Who Came in From the Cold," still for my money the best single novel (movie) ever written about the hard, unforgiving and treacherous world of espionage. Not very appealing.
But I'm afraid spies in real-life are just not that glamorous -- think "The Spy Who Came in From the Cold,"
True. Most spies actually do alot of very repetitive and boring things. Very few spiesw would get to save the worl and sleep with the villain's partner.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Sir Fitzroy MacLean, Scottish soldier, diplomat, politician and author:
Can I just add that Sir Fitzroy is a well remembered figure around my home town as he was Member of Parliament for Bute & North Ayrshire (where yours truly resides) from 1959 till he retired in 1974. I know that my parents voted for him anyway
Indeed, CoS and I am going to buy that book soon. Yet here is Lady Maclean's rather enigmatic take on the matter, in a Telegraph interview just a few years back...
Lady Maclean had known Fleming for years before he wrote his first Bond novel, Casino Royale, in 1952. His mistress, Anne, who became his wife, was her second cousin. His brother Richard served in her father's regiment, the Lovat Scouts.
"Fitz very much enjoyed being thought of as James Bond but he did not believe it. James Bond was an amalgam of all the funny characters that Ian Fleming knew through his time in Intelligence, and also very much a projection of what he would have liked to have been himself. Fitz used to say Ian was a funny creature. He didn't entirely admire him."
More Fitz lore please. Meanwhile, what about Wilfred "Biffy" Dunderdale, of Ian Fleming's legendary 30 AU assault force? Is *he* the real James Bond?
To be sure, James Bond is not really a spy at all, but rather a secret agent, and sometimes, an assassin. If this were (ever) true, it would be serious. Ian Fleming was early on instructed to make his novels "more far-fetched" making Bond's shenanigans appear mere fantasy. However, MI6 was in those days (and probably still is) a formidable, secretive organization with a very real "license to kill". After all, Eastern Bloc defectors were by no means safe from the KGB in Western cities...!
Over time British postwar policies became more pacifist, and the rival powers tacitly agreed at least not to assassinate each other's heads of state. But the "Cold War" went on and citizens on both sides could be fair game if they got in the way.
The whole "executive action" thing eventually became something of a bad look for the British Government. But not in the Bond films, where the mayhem continues unabated! However, any "real" James Bond would never be allowed to reveal his (real) exploits.
There was a documentary on Channel Five last night about this called, The Real James Bond. It was interesting, without being fascinating. But apparently only 3 actors have played James Bond, Connery, Moore and Craig. I don't know why they couldn't have fitted in a few pics of Lazenby, Dalton and Brosnan, but there you go. Also I liked how they tried to claim that writing killed Fleming. It wasn't his fast lifestyle, the booze and cigarettes, or the stress of his lawsuit with Kevin McCrory. Let that be a warning to any would-be scribes out there. You can drink as much as you like, smoke as much as you like, do drugs if you want to, but if you start writing, well then you are doomed. Doomed, I tell you.
All Bond wannabe´s remember, even if you looks like bond, even if you move like bond, even if you talk like bond, even if you kills like bond, remember you´re not bond beacuse bond is bond, and bond is a fictionary person who kills with out mercy.
I haven´t read the novels but does Bond never shows physchical behavour beacuse he kill so many, you know he can´t sleep, he felt bad in him self you know bad conscience?
Well he feels bad about the killing of the Mexican in the beginning of Goldfinger, where he reflects on what he has done and why he has done it etc.
The Bond we know uniquely evolved from Fleming's novels mainly through the movie adaptations. However, it's my belief that there were in fact several real James Bonds who were secret agents. Here's how: in the 1920s and 30s, the name James Bond was hardly more uncommon than John Smith or John Brown. As such, it was more than likely used (like John Brown) as a cover identity for British agents or contractors on more than one occasion. Such identities were usually issued by the Passport Control Office, which was then conveniently co-located with MI6 stations.
These cover identities often took on a life of their own, sometimes giving rise to offspring in those pre-pill days. Who could then blame insecure Mums across Europe for calling the kid "Junior". After WWII, some of these kids found their way into the secret world, where one or two were aquainted with the Fleming brothers, Ian, Peter and Richard, all high-level British spymasters. Believe it or nuts.
PS I'll take that as a compliment, Drake! *chortle*
There are recognised candidates for the real Bond but Conrad O'Brien Ffrench is the real thing. He met Fleming in Austria Pre War when he was working for the Z network under Claude Dansey and Stuart Menzies. The Imperial War Museum contacted me through my site http://00brien.com a couple of months ago for a picture of him for their Fleming exhibition so they have him in the running he is credible. I believe he was THE inspiration for the character of Bond. Check out my site and hopefully you will agree with me. If you want to dispute my claim I will argue the point with anyone. But to be totally honest he was the man. I have been researching him since 2000 and it has been more a case of uncovering the truth than making facts fit my thesis. As I learned more about him everything just dropped into place. Well you be your own judge read my site even buy his book and see for yourself. I look forward to hearing from you.
Paul Atkinson aka 00brien
Well done 00Brien and keep up the good work. It certainly looks as if O'Brien-ffrench was A real James Bond, alright, and he may well have been Fleming's real hero, providing a great deal of the inspiration for the (original) fictional character.
Nevertheless, it's long been an open secret here in Australia that James Bond really lived, twice. The son was raised in Hungary and worked there undercover after WWII for the anti-communist Resistance and one "Richard Fleming" of "British Intelligence". After many astounding adventures he moved out here in the mid-1950s.
Now known as John Bennedick Brown, (citizen and former British Subject) it seems he was fingered as James B. Bond in 1968 by Australian Air Force Intelligence. They had known him as an RAF officer with field rank in Korea , but this was never ratified by his actual US 4th Fighter Group commander for secrecy reasons. He subsequently worked for the RAAF as a flight training contractor, among other things, and is clearly far more than some mere "Walter Mitty".
Brown is nearly 80 now & still in good shape. His character and tastes are indeed quite different, the accent is Hungarian, but in cold-blooded focus and sheer gung-ho chuztpah, he seems to me, unmistakably, Bond.
Recognized by whom, 00Brien? Some sort of disinterested pluralist elite? Or a comittee of everyone involved in the 007 "industry" and a few "experts". Just look what happened to The Authorized Biography of 007 by John Pearson (1966?), the first post-Fleming James Bond novel (authorized by Anne Fleming). Now deemed "apocryphal", it cannot be found in any listing of the Bond "canon", supposedly because of a few inconsistencies. Weird!
Perhaps you need to appear in a footnote of some dodgy intelligence memoir, like this one from H. Montgomery-Hyde's Secret Intelligence Officer (1982):
5 (30) Dorothy and I were divorced in 1951, much to my regret, since she had fallen in love with another member of MI6, Commander Wilfred Dunderdale, RNVR, whom she later married. Dunderdale is the officer upon whom Ian Fleming is said to have based his fictitious charachter, James Bond in his novels of espionage. I remained on friendly terms with both Dorothy and her second husband until her death in 1978.
So intimate, too, just like the British. But what is really going on here? Is this normal rumour-mongering, or some sort of disinformation campaign?
Then again, perhaps Montgomery-Hyde isn't doing Dunderdale such a big favour, after all.
Thanks I am leased you enjoyed the 00brien story. Your Mr Brown sounds an interesting type too. To be absoluetly honest I have actually avoided reading up on Bond. With the exception of the two Fleming bios all my research was in Military/Espionage History. I decided when I set out on the reaearch that it was primarily about Ffrench and proving the actuality of the story in his book "Delicate Mission". In the end it played out true. Which places him in the role of a British Spy-master; essentially running the pre war Austrian and Southern German spy ring, when he met Ian. Conrad really is the suave sophisticated shaken not stirred Bond character. Ian managed to stir him a bit mind you. A reality check for them both. Can you imagine how you might feel having almost blown an agent such as Ffrenchs' cover? I am actually reading the Bond novels themselves now. For the first time. I read Dr No and Octopussy in my teens. It is good to get back to the fiction I have had my head in the facts for too long. Chin chin!
00brien.
Hi Nenesis. Recognised by everybody? The Bond thesis is an incidental. The primary important question is.... Was Ffrench the Austrian Spymaster in Austria Pre-WWII? well yes, it seems so. The rest is history. The real problem here is with the question... Who was the real James Bond? There simply is not one man. Fleming himself was a back room boy in MI6 he liased between all the top echelon people during the war. He even had his own unit for a while "The Red Indians" who carried out real operations. Bond was based on one of their number too undoubtedly. The "Action man" Bond character maybe? My man is the missing link in the line of other Bonds. He is the suave and sophisticated one who couldn't possibly be a spy because he was so visible. It is a tough job.Occasionally a poorly paid spy must be the playboy millionaire. For King and Country of course. It has a certain humour. He was paid less than a window cleaner at the time. But Fleming incorporated people he knew into his books, into Bond. It is not a campaign of disinformation it is a reflection of the creation of a multi faceted character. Of what nowadays is Everymans Spy. Conrad already has page space and a couple of footnotes. Me I would be delighted with a footnote in Parish Times
Well, I shall in future confine myself to spies NAMED James Bond. There were at least two or three of these anyway (all markedly different from the fictional 007, no doubt!). According to JFK scholars William Kelly and John Judge, even the American author of "Birds of the West Indies", Professor James Bond, a) was married to a wartime OSS operative, b) had "connections" with British Intelligence, and c) was shot at on several occasions. Apparently bird-watching - and his famous name - provided the ideal cover for a spot of espionage. Who would have suspected?
But it is perhaps too soon. *sigh* Maybe in another hundred years...
It is a real tribute to Fleming that James Bond is so compelling that many folks want him to be a real person.
It is fairly well documented that Bond was an alter-ego of Fleming. That is not to say that Fleming was Bond anymore than Jay Gatsby was Scott Fitzgerald or Robert Jordan was Ernest Hemingway. No doubt all these authors met real people that in some way inspired the charecters in their novels.
Seems to me these geninue spies deserve better praise than to be linked as the "real Bond", since what they did took extraordinary courage and tenacity in the real world. James Bond was created by Fleming for his and our amusement - his adventures fictional - even though real events inspired them.
So lets praise these veterans for their valor, but remember that as much as we love Bond he is fictional, and give credit to Fleming for his wonderful imagination - and to those who serve for their dedication and bravery! Its apples and oranges though.
Your summary is spot-on as far as it goes, 7289, I just think that *some* of this proliferation could be the result of Ian Fleming - and others - trying to cover up the fact that the name "James Bond", then a not-uncommon one, had already been used by agents of British intelligence on more than one occasion in the past.
It is said that the novels of John Le Carre perhaps best reflect the detailed workings of British intelligence. And, oddly enough, Nemesis, here;s what he says in The Night Maneger (1993):
"You're Mr Brown, in case you hadn't guessed. An unnamed volunteer in our employ. In official papers, people like you are always Mr Brown." ... "John - in your usual handwriting." ... He painstakingly wrote 'John Brown'.
Oh, Balderdash, Bond Agent! That old yarn about an aussie bush pilot being the real Bond has nothing but circumstantial evidence to support it. At least post a photo of his supposed "surgical double", Istvan Egyed, for comparison on your demotic website, which anyway cannot be found on most search engines throughout the civilized world.
As for RAAF Intelligence, it is true that they were associated with the US 5th Air Force in Korea, and, like them, probably employed their fair share of "Johnnies" during the Cold War.
John Brown was a true outback character and a trusted pilot, but someone must slipped him a mickey at one of those swinging parties in the 70s. Do you really think MI6, the Soviets, the CIA or anyone else could make someone disappear from history? How? And why?!
Every word on my site is based on real testimony and documented research and is fact-checked as far as possible in the circumstances. Any intemperate rants based on ignorance are long gone. I am only documenting a genuine anomaly, and applying some standard investigative intelligence techniques. I feel Ian Fleming would probably be tickled, but you can't please everybody..
And, yes, dear Nemmie, 'they' (and some others) can make you disappear. In fact, nowadays, the process is computerized... try Hotbot instead.
Ian Fleming advised that he appropriated the name "James Bond" from the author of one of his favorite books ...."The Birds of the West Indies". He acknowledged this to Mr. Bond when the latter visited Goldeneye in the early 1960's.
I cannot imagine why Fleming would have any reason to lie about the source for his charecters name.
The source of the name is beyond any reasonable doubt. The character itself has many sources, including Fitzroy MacLean and Fleming himself- with understandable extrapolations. There is no one source: an author takes influences and expands upon them.
Thanks for your interest in this fascinating topic.
I cannot imagine why Fleming would have any reason to lie about the source
As Fleming drew on his knowledge of secret matters, partly for propaganda purposes, some deception and disinformation were inevitable. Fleming was anyway a specialist in this field.
Even so, I can only imagine two possible reasons: a) There really had been some sort of secret agent named James Bond, or b) the name (once not-uncommon) had been used before as a cover name, backed by very real British documents, or some combination of both.
The source of the name is beyond any reasonable doubt
Any reasonable doubt? What about what Ian Fleming told his intelligence collleague (& later Hollywood scriptwriter) Major Paul Dehn: that the name was inspired by the James Bond United Church in Toronto, across the road from Fleming's wartime digs near Camp X. This story was verified by author and former intelligence officer Lynn Hodgson.
So sure, there may be more than one "truth". Just remember that British intelligence are fond of "muddying the waters" and have often employed "onion layers of half-truth and deception" to cover their tracks in the past. Why not in this of all cases?
Don't quit now, chaps! You are just getting started, right? I can only marvel as it is again proven that "fact is stranger than fiction", "history is written by the victors" and (my personal favourite) "Never trust a spook".
Comments
Ditto for Richard Fleming, supposedly the "Quiet Fleming" who stayed home to mind the family banking business. The mail I'm getting suggests he was in fact the real espionage mastermind, working behing the scenes, on the most delicate matters, a figure analagous to Mycroft, Sherlock Holmes' smarter brother.
But I'm afraid spies in real-life are just not that glamorous -- think "The Spy Who Came in From the Cold," still for my money the best single novel (movie) ever written about the hard, unforgiving and treacherous world of espionage. Not very appealing.
Lady Maclean had known Fleming for years before he wrote his first Bond novel, Casino Royale, in 1952. His mistress, Anne, who became his wife, was her second cousin. His brother Richard served in her father's regiment, the Lovat Scouts.
"Fitz very much enjoyed being thought of as James Bond but he did not believe it. James Bond was an amalgam of all the funny characters that Ian Fleming knew through his time in Intelligence, and also very much a projection of what he would have liked to have been himself. Fitz used to say Ian was a funny creature. He didn't entirely admire him."
More Fitz lore please. Meanwhile, what about Wilfred "Biffy" Dunderdale, of Ian Fleming's legendary 30 AU assault force? Is *he* the real James Bond?
Over time British postwar policies became more pacifist, and the rival powers tacitly agreed at least not to assassinate each other's heads of state. But the "Cold War" went on and citizens on both sides could be fair game if they got in the way.
No Murder, Please, Mr Wilson, We're British http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicspast/comment/0,9236,1527384,00.html
The whole "executive action" thing eventually became something of a bad look for the British Government. But not in the Bond films, where the mayhem continues unabated! However, any "real" James Bond would never be allowed to reveal his (real) exploits.
www.freewebs.com/scaramangasgoldengun
www.facebook.com/QuartermasterProps
Well he feels bad about the killing of the Mexican in the beginning of Goldfinger, where he reflects on what he has done and why he has done it etc.
These cover identities often took on a life of their own, sometimes giving rise to offspring in those pre-pill days. Who could then blame insecure Mums across Europe for calling the kid "Junior". After WWII, some of these kids found their way into the secret world, where one or two were aquainted with the Fleming brothers, Ian, Peter and Richard, all high-level British spymasters. Believe it or nuts.
PS I'll take that as a compliment, Drake! *chortle*
Paul Atkinson aka 00brien
Nevertheless, it's long been an open secret here in Australia that James Bond really lived, twice. The son was raised in Hungary and worked there undercover after WWII for the anti-communist Resistance and one "Richard Fleming" of "British Intelligence". After many astounding adventures he moved out here in the mid-1950s.
Now known as John Bennedick Brown, (citizen and former British Subject) it seems he was fingered as James B. Bond in 1968 by Australian Air Force Intelligence. They had known him as an RAF officer with field rank in Korea , but this was never ratified by his actual US 4th Fighter Group commander for secrecy reasons. He subsequently worked for the RAAF as a flight training contractor, among other things, and is clearly far more than some mere "Walter Mitty".
Brown is nearly 80 now & still in good shape. His character and tastes are indeed quite different, the accent is Hungarian, but in cold-blooded focus and sheer gung-ho chuztpah, he seems to me, unmistakably, Bond.
Perhaps you need to appear in a footnote of some dodgy intelligence memoir, like this one from H. Montgomery-Hyde's Secret Intelligence Officer (1982): So intimate, too, just like the British. But what is really going on here? Is this normal rumour-mongering, or some sort of disinformation campaign?
Then again, perhaps Montgomery-Hyde isn't doing Dunderdale such a big favour, after all.
00brien.
But it is perhaps too soon. *sigh* Maybe in another hundred years...
It is fairly well documented that Bond was an alter-ego of Fleming. That is not to say that Fleming was Bond anymore than Jay Gatsby was Scott Fitzgerald or Robert Jordan was Ernest Hemingway. No doubt all these authors met real people that in some way inspired the charecters in their novels.
Seems to me these geninue spies deserve better praise than to be linked as the "real Bond", since what they did took extraordinary courage and tenacity in the real world. James Bond was created by Fleming for his and our amusement - his adventures fictional - even though real events inspired them.
So lets praise these veterans for their valor, but remember that as much as we love Bond he is fictional, and give credit to Fleming for his wonderful imagination - and to those who serve for their dedication and bravery! Its apples and oranges though.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
It is said that the novels of John Le Carre perhaps best reflect the detailed workings of British intelligence. And, oddly enough, Nemesis, here;s what he says in The Night Maneger (1993):
As for RAAF Intelligence, it is true that they were associated with the US 5th Air Force in Korea, and, like them, probably employed their fair share of "Johnnies" during the Cold War.
John Brown was a true outback character and a trusted pilot, but someone must slipped him a mickey at one of those swinging parties in the 70s. Do you really think MI6, the Soviets, the CIA or anyone else could make someone disappear from history? How? And why?!
And, yes, dear Nemmie, 'they' (and some others) can make you disappear. In fact, nowadays, the process is computerized... try Hotbot instead.
Ian Fleming advised that he appropriated the name "James Bond" from the author of one of his favorite books ...."The Birds of the West Indies". He acknowledged this to Mr. Bond when the latter visited Goldeneye in the early 1960's.
I cannot imagine why Fleming would have any reason to lie about the source for his charecters name.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
As Fleming drew on his knowledge of secret matters, partly for propaganda purposes, some deception and disinformation were inevitable. Fleming was anyway a specialist in this field.
Even so, I can only imagine two possible reasons: a) There really had been some sort of secret agent named James Bond, or b) the name (once not-uncommon) had been used before as a cover name, backed by very real British documents, or some combination of both.
Any reasonable doubt? What about what Ian Fleming told his intelligence collleague (& later Hollywood scriptwriter) Major Paul Dehn: that the name was inspired by the James Bond United Church in Toronto, across the road from Fleming's wartime digs near Camp X. This story was verified by author and former intelligence officer Lynn Hodgson.
So sure, there may be more than one "truth". Just remember that British intelligence are fond of "muddying the waters" and have often employed "onion layers of half-truth and deception" to cover their tracks in the past. Why not in this of all cases?