While England's Dreaming: Discussion & Comment

24

Comments

  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    we don't need to rush him any
  • MogsmumMogsmum Posts: 5MI6 Agent
    Ooooooo!!!! Whose throwing their toys out of the cot then??

    Actually, there are several things I've produced for 'your enjoyment' available in any branch of WH Smith, Waterstones, et al.
  • one night standone night stand Posts: 127MI6 Agent
    Quoting JazzX:
    Quoting JazzX:
    Quoting Mogsmum:
    Keep it coming - but quicker

    you numbskull. You can`t rush art. Let`s see YOU produce something for our enjoyment ... then you might realise what it takes.

    I agree and I notice you got an avtar.
  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    Many great concepts have been ruined because they've been rushed
  • Lazenby880Lazenby880 LondonPosts: 525MI6 Agent
    edited June 2004
    Having already commented on the first and second chapters, I thought I'd post my thoughts on the rest of the story.

    As with the previous chapters, jetset uses his evidently well read vocabulary to highly effectively convey a particular atmosphere. This occurs immediately with the opening sentences of Morning Reflections, two sentences of supreme imagery and phraseology that provide an excellent introduction and sets the mood elegantly. As well as furthering the story, which the chapter does very well through the pointed dialogue between Bond and Samantha, Morning Reflections also provides a deeper insight into Samantha's character. She is certainly an interesting character, an arguably Flemingesque bird with a wing down that Bond instinctively wants to protect. The only point of criticism I'd make is of the very last sentence, "I'll be your bodyguard again." I can understand why such a sentence was included, however I can't really imagine Bond, or anyone, saying that.

    I'm sure you can imagine my distaste while eating my lunch and reading, "The lift smelt of dried sweat and wet dog." Although it may be guilty of overkill, like the previous chapter it dies successfully set the scene and give the reader something to contemplate. The chase scene is pretty exhilirating stuff, and it is also good to read a fight scene where Bond's opponent undeniably has a physical upper hand. The fight/chase that makes the rest of the chapter is genuinely exciting with Bond's abilities drawn very clearly into question, and I do like the level of brutality and blood that characterise the fights. On the other hand, my favourite part is in fact a simple line that is almost written off the cuff, the finishing line, "He was the only thing that could keep her alive." It plainly demonstrates the desperation of the situation, as well as showing the problem Bond faces.

    A Whisper of Hate, for obvious reasons, is a terrific title. The chapter as a whole continues the suspense from the previous one, and again I must point out my appreciation for the skilled use of different vocabulary and sentences that express different emotions and moods. In addition, although simple, I really like the repetition of "Her scream" at the beginning of four sentences. It is incredibly effective, and accentuates Samantha's terror.

    Sacrificial Lamb is my favourite chapter so far, if only for the frosty atmosphere with M. In my opinion Bond/M scenes are quite difficult to write, at least I found them to be so when writing them for Knight Of Shadows and Smokeheart, however jetset captures the moment well. M's dialogue all fits very well and flows stylishly. I can really imagine M, in the Judi Dench form, saying those words dripping in sarcasm. Indeed, it was Dench I pictured when reading the scene, which I assume is a good thing. The position in which Bond is placed is furthermore highly interesting and makes great reading. Bond's skills are being questioned, as is his professional future, which understandably he isn't too happy about. The way this is described is brilliant, for instance the lines, "Again, the rage simmered beneath him. He understood what was happening here. He was being scapegoated. He was being made to pay to stop questions from being asked, questions which might reflect badly on the government." I also assume jetset that you're not a great admirer of the British tabloid press, and their "self-righteous manner". ;) To which do you refer?

    This situation also gives Bond a great motive for hunting down Angus, that of clearing the slur against his good name. I also appreciate the way Bond proves his ability to his superior, which reminds us that despite his previous failure and imperfections this is James Bond, and refocuses the reader's imagination on Bond's skills.

    All in all, the way this story is shaping up is fantastic and, so far, is one of the best pieces of fan fiction I've read. I would urge jetset to consider once finishing While England's Dreaming publishing it in the fan fiction library as it certainly deserves to be there.
  • NAOMI_FAN 1NAOMI_FAN 1 Posts: 85MI6 Agent
    jetset, I finally got a chance to read chapter five!
    Frantic, is a word I use to describe this chapter! My pulse was racing the whole time just like 007's, such was the pace of your writing! Man, this is sure turning into one helluva good read!
    I will be visiting London soon and now I want to check out the Whispering Gallery in St. Paul's for myself!
    I was absolutely shocked at the death of Samantha at the hands of Henk! And in a cathedral no less! I could almost hear Bond's anguished cry, and feel his pain and rage!
    I'm hoping to read chapter six before I leave for England, and post my comments!
    I'm telling you jetset, this thing NEEDS to be published!!
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    Superlative Jetset.Absolutely superlative.


    This must be published.

    In a perfect world,you'd be writing the official continuation novels.
  • DAWUSSDAWUSS My homepagePosts: 517MI6 Agent
    Got any ideas for the cover art?
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    edited July 2004
    Well, thanks for the compliments as always folks (and special thanks to Lazenby880, whose thorough analysis was especially appreciated!). It's always good to know people are reading and enjoying WED, and I also like to know what the "audience" thinks works and doesn't work: it means I can make forthcoming installments even better!

    To address a couple of points people have brought up:

    1) JazzX and Mogsmum, please! Mogsmum, I understand why you want each chapter quicker - trust me, I do too! I'm writing this when I get a chance though, and I have a fair amount of stuff on at the moment - but thanks for asking for more! And Jazz, thanks for calling what I'm doing art, and thank you for defending my corner, but there's no need for name calling either! Don't make me close my own topic people ;)

    2) L880 - I totally agree that M/Bond scenes are the worst to do. The problem is that they've already been done in pretty much every possible way, so finding a new spin is difficult. Combine that with the fact that they are almost entirely exposition chapters, and you can understand why I wasn't too enthused to be writing it (Chapter 6 had the working title "Obligatory M Scene"!).

    3) Naomifan - if you go to St Paul's, let me know how my descriptions match up to the reality - 'cos I've never actually been ;)

    Chapter Seven, Morgue, is halfway written, and should be posted soon - I'm a bit snowed under with work and stuff so it's been delayed, but it's coming! After that there are a couple of chapters I've been really looking forward to getting down, so they'll probably be a lot quicker in showing up...

    As for the cover art, obviously when it's all written, I'll need a decent image so that it can be entered into the hallowed halls of AJB's fanfic downloads. Unfortunately, the likes of Photoshop are another country to me, so I was going to run a mini-competition to see if anyone could come up with an alternative. That won't be for a long time yet though, because I'd like people to have read the majority of the story before they get creating. But watch this space :D
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • scaramanga1scaramanga1 The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
    Jetset what can I add to what has already been said. This by far has to be the best Bond fanfic I've ever read! Your attention to detail and the ambience of the whole story is just fantastic. It is a masterpiece. As for a cover I think Carver97 may be your man -as PMKane has seemingly dissappeared -which is just a little worrying. Anyway when you do have time -keep it coming -as it is really inspiring. :)
  • Moonraker 5Moonraker 5 Ayrshire, ScotlandPosts: 1,821MI6 Agent
    <tap, tap, tap> 8-)

    Considering I'm not a book reader, by a long chalk, I find myself frustrated at the lapse between chapters. ;) I know you can't rush art...but I can give it a damn good try!!

    I haven't been gripped on a story since, oooooh, my 5th Year school <forced> book report!
    unitedkingdom.png
  • glidroseglidrose Posts: 138MI6 Agent
    Only just started reading it, JSW, but looking good so far.

    Incidentally, I wrote a novel called `The Fifth Ace' a while back, attempting to write it in the style of Fleming, starring a character called Adam Grant. The reason why I'm telling you this is because I too am a massive fan of JSW and wrote in a couple of nods to the great game itself. I had a pub called `The Banyan Tree', a character called Matthew Smith, and another pub called `The Forgotten Abbey'.

    Glad to see there is someone else out there who is a fan of 2 things I love - Bond and JSW.
  • tirpitztirpitz Posts: 339MI6 Agent
    I noticed, the National Society for prevention of cruelty to children is like the Royal Society for Prevention of cruelty to children, a society of witches in the Roald Dahl book, the Witches. Did you read it jetset?
  • Moonraker 5Moonraker 5 Ayrshire, ScotlandPosts: 1,821MI6 Agent
    Quoting tirpitz:
    I noticed, the National Society for prevention of cruelty to children is like the Royal Society for Prevention of cruelty to children, a society of witches in the Roald Dahl book, the Witches. Did you read it jetset?
    The National Society for the Prevention Of Cruelty to Children is a real charity tirpitz, it's more like Roald Dahl swapped 'National' for 'Royal' so as not to use an actual real name of a serious organisation in a children's book.

    www.nspcc.org.uk
    unitedkingdom.png
  • tirpitztirpitz Posts: 339MI6 Agent
    Well, that was a shocker. You Brits and your societies! In my opinion Rufus du something seems like a real jack@$$. But jetsetwilly's description makes him seem like a bit of a freak. It gives me the impression that he's going to use his teeth on someone soon.
  • Lazenby880Lazenby880 LondonPosts: 525MI6 Agent
    edited August 2004
    Once again jetset this is superb. Since it had been quite a while since I last perused the story, it meant that, to an extent, I could read the chapters once again with a fresh eye. Needless to say it doesn't disappoint on a second reading.

    Morgue begins with a magnificent paragraph, that includes a quite thought-provoking sentence, "If Bond had been a superstitious man, he would have shuddered as he felt the death that pervaded every corner claw at his face", (don't ask me why it is thought-provoking, but it is undoubtedly well-written). In addition, it is reflective of the quality of jetset's writing, which is very high indeed.

    Also discernable is a hint of Fleming, particularly in Bond's attitudes towards the Yard, "Petty men with petty lives." The way in which you vividly describe the impersonality of Samantha's flat you can be most proud of, and again you show your way with words, "Bond realised he was looking at the flat with new eyes. No pictures on the walls. No flowers in the vase on the sleek side board. A three week old celebrity magazine on the coffee table. So clinical and impersonal. He realised that yesterday, he hadn’t seen these cold edges in the same light. The life that filled the rooms had blunted and obscured them. They stood out as harsh elements of an impersonal space. Bond realised he had no desire to stay in this morgue beyond his allotted hour."

    As with the first six chapters of your story, the attention to detail (again quite a Flemingesque trait) is inspired, and it is a joy to read. Which brings me to another point, although I did smile at the proficiency of your writing (sad I know) While England's Dreaming is very easy to read, and I mean that as a compliment. You do not try to outsmart your reader with you prose, something that too many authors, in my opinion, do which would turn off readers.

    Moreover, this attention detail allows you to wonderfully create an atmosphere, most obvious in Samantha's flat. You clearly set a scene in which the reader can immerse themselves, and really feel what Bond is feeling, the coldness and the emptiness.

    In the opening lines of Black In White I love the distaste with which Bond views the party, and points to another example where jetset effectively draws inspiration from Ian Fleming's original character.

    Again you dip into plenty of detail without boring the reader, where I can only suggest a comparison with Tom Clancy's The Teeth Of The Tiger (I must find every opportunity to criticise this book, if you're ever looking for a cure for insomnia this is it.) This story, while very different from the book I compare it to, is genuinely entertaining in the best tradition, where the attention to detail provides a vivid sweep as opposed to providing a drift into mediocrity.

    My only problem with the chapter (an otherwise equally skilfully written piece) is the overkill in the decription of how the party and the venue are white, it is repeated fourteen times within three or four paragraphs. I can wholly understand the effect you tried to achieve, and I did like the line, "some edged perilously close to cream," but I don't think it worked too well.

    In addition, we also see a glimpse of Fleming in Bond's aversion of overt snobbery (even though, as you point out, Bond is a bit of a snob himself). Again, some single lines are what inspire, "He had entered “society”, that most dreadful of all social classes, where humanity was judged on its designer labels and its column inches." Just brilliant.

    The dialogue between Du Lyonne and Bond in Behind The Veil is perfectly tense, and the reader can again almost feel the hostility in the air. But what a cliffhanger! Please hurry up with the next chapter so I can see what happens next. ;)

    I hope you are enjoying writing your serial as much as I have enjoyed writing fan fiction (although I may have finished writing any individual pieces), it certainly reads as if you are. From the words on the screen it really does come across that you care about your story and the characters in it, which is probably why it is so good. I know I'm fawning over While England's Dreaming, but it really is a great piece of fan fiction.

    Please keep writing. :)
  • tirpitztirpitz Posts: 339MI6 Agent
    Nice one Jetset! However, I can't seem to find Rufus du Lyon frightening as a villain. It seems that he always needs a large team of henchmen to back him up.
  • NAOMI_FAN 1NAOMI_FAN 1 Posts: 85MI6 Agent
    jetset, time and work have FINALLY allowed me to read chapters six through nine! I've gotta tell you, this is getting better and better! I really want this in printed and published glory! My absolute favorite scene so far, is when Bond enters the party in all it's gloss white splendour with it's white walls, mirrors, picture frames, furniture, and dressed party goers! And there is 007, dressed in black! I could literally feel the silence and the awkwardness, it was extremely palpable! Bond handles this proficiently, as only Bond can! Brilliant!
    You have a way, jetset, of explaining things in this story,(i.e. places, people, surroundings, and events) without over-explaining them! This helps move the story along and treats the reader with respect! Much appreciated!
    I now eagerly await the forthcoming chapters!
    You're cooking up quite a caper here!
  • tirpitztirpitz Posts: 339MI6 Agent
    edited September 2004
    Great new chapter JSW! This Ms. Sinclair seems like a rather suspicious character. And the dialogue is great!
  • Moonraker 5Moonraker 5 Ayrshire, ScotlandPosts: 1,821MI6 Agent
    What absolutely superb dialogue in Chapter 11!! Du Lyonne is certainly coming across as the vain, egotistical, intelligent super-psycho already. Such a gripping action sequence too, you've not fallen into the trap of dragging them out, jetset - they're suspenseful and to the point!!

    Only thing is, my best mate was born with a 6th finger, and so was his eldest son (both have had it removed almost at birth) - I'll be sure and pass the message of inbreeding on :D
    unitedkingdom.png
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    Well, chapter 12 is finally up. Apologies for the delay; I shan't bore you with the details, but let's just say I've been rushed off my feet these last few weeks. Plus this most recent chapter has given me a lot of trouble...

    As always, comments are appreciated :D
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • frostbittenfrostbitten Chateau d'EtchebarPosts: 286MI6 Agent
    I think this tale has some of the most elegant fan-fiction writings I've seen anywhere. One good example is that brief, but very fine, description of modern airports ("passionate surfaces but disdainful interiors" indeed). It's clear that JSW is a very talented writer, and I look forward to reading the future chapters.
  • MogsmumMogsmum Posts: 5MI6 Agent
    Great to see the latest 'page turner' instalment which I've only just had the opportunity to read.

    The last time I posted on this thread, JazzX saw fit to refer to me as a 'numbskull' !!!, choosing to ignore - or singularly failing to recognise - the irony in 'but quicker'. Clearly a person who has never been sufficiently interested in any piece of writing to want to know what happens next.
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    edited December 2004
    Well, jetsetwilly...you have a new fan! I have begun reading your serial and am thoroughly enjoying it. Admittedly, I have only devoured the first four chapters but am looking forward to the rest! I echo the high praise you have received here...it truly is a tale to bear the name of James Bond. Keep it up!
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    For the three people who give a... monkey's, I must apologise for the lateness of the next installment. I can only blame the very worst kind of writer's block, in that I've written something, but it's tripe. So am I in the process of a massive rewrite to make it worth reading.

    I will tease you with a preview of forthcoming attractions:

    (1) There will be a car journey.
    (2) Kindie will be a bit rude.
    (3) Deserts will feature heavily.

    Bet you can't wait now, eh?
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
  • Moonraker 5Moonraker 5 Ayrshire, ScotlandPosts: 1,821MI6 Agent
    Jetset, can I just add that if I was your publisher, you'd be so FIRED I couldn't shout it loud enough. I'd be wanting to sell books, not wait till retirement to read the damn thing!!! :p :p :p
    unitedkingdom.png
  • scaramanga1scaramanga1 The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
    Believe it or not jetset - I care -and am still waiting for you to email it to ajbpublishing@aol.com for it to be added, along with a suitable cover illustration to the fanfiction library. So please pull your finger out -finish the tale and give it to a wider audience! :D

    Seriously keep up the good work -it is awesome.
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    Here's the third guy, Jetset. Keep up the great work! ;) :D
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    Quoting jetsetwilly:


    (1) There will be a car journey.
    (2) Kindie will be a bit rude.
    (3) Deserts will feature heavily.
    Quoting jetsetwilly:


    I'm hoping that this is not the final edit. Could you flesh it out a bit more?

    Just teasing ;) As someone who has also enjoyed "While England's Dreaming" thus far, I thought I'd join in the good-natured ribbing!
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly Liverpool, UKPosts: 1,048MI6 Agent
    Fine. SHAME me into posting ;)
    Founder of the Wint & Kidd Appreciation Society.

    @merseytart
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