Quoting Atticus: Quoting Red Grant:
I can almost believe - admittedly at a stretch - that Bond could develop feelings for Miranda. On the surface, she's exactly the kind of woman you'd expect him to fall in love with - she's beautiful, elegant, intelligent, athletic ... not a million miles away from Tracy, in fact.
There's the crux of the biscuit. He's thinking, "What a waste! She was really very hot!"
I think the Miranda Frost PB emotion thing strange to but i thought the Helle Berry and PB life saving thing was brilliant!
"What took you so long?" Would make any person who saved your life smile especially if you just had an encounter with them and had feelings. But bond is a differnt story.
The person i thought was most pathetic was Micheal Madsen.
Atticus, Jinx's role is supposed to be that of a sassy American agent. There is a clear intention by the screenwriters to show the alleged American cockyness in the film, such as Falco's tounge lashing of M, or the role of Jinx. Her dialouge is set up that way. You may not like it, but it is appropriate.
I ask you to re-read a post I made a few pages ago about Bond putting Jinx in that position. If that alone isnt reason enough to care, I dont know what is.
Furthermore, there is nothing close to romance between Frost and Bond. A relationship between Frost and Graves, now that would have been an interesting twist....
Quoting Red Grant:
I ask you to re-read a post I made a few pages ago about Bond putting Jinx in that position. If that alone isnt reason enough to care, I dont know what is.
It might give you or I reason to care, but James Bond? My point is, he's spent the last fifty-odd years putting women in danger - some of whom weren't even in dangerous jobs. If Jinx had died, wouldn't he have dismissed it as a bit of bad luck? She's supposed to be a professional, she's supposed to know the risks. "She's a big girl, I figured she could look after herself"? But he's never shown this much concern about his women before, so why start now? What is so special about Jinx?
Quoting Red Grant:
Furthermore, there is nothing close to romance between Frost and Bond
I didn't say there was. But if he must fall for someone in this film, it makes more sense for him to fall for Miranda, no? Let me stress this isn't based on my personal preference; I'm thinking that, if James Bond has a 'type', it'd be for someone a tad more refined than Jinx - and Miranda fit that bill nicely.
Quoting JakeL: Quoting heartbroken_mr_drax:
I think the Miranda Frost PB emotion thing strange.
Now I feel HEARTBROKEN, MR DRAX! ) I think Frost was a real highlight in the film. And as I explained above, it makes good (heh, yeah, not really) sense that Bond had emotional feelings for her.
I dont think there is much wrong with the villian i thought he played a very good part. Zao was the weakest and annoying. GG could have been better but he was like elliot carver more than a Zorin.
I'm so conflicted about this film I can't stand it. The first half is some of the best Bond goodness since Connery (Bond captured, investigating, meeting M under Big Ben, fencing with villain etc) THEN as soon as they hit the "ice palace" it turns to ****e - reminding me more of the Moonraker style - waaay OTT, CG, gadgets, explosions - bah. What a waste. Had they stayed true to the first half and kept the same tone, the same intrigue, the same thrills - it could have been Brosnan's best imo.
And that theme song? wtf were they thinking? Atrocious. They should have brought back Shirley Bassey imo, or if they HAD to go for someone modern, wht not David Bowie? I always thought he would have made a great Bond theme song. but asla. ****e city.
I agree with the above comment, before the ice palace everything was fantastic and really original bond, but as soon as they got to the ice palace it wasnt as good. I dont agree so much that it ruined the film completly but it just wasnt well done.
Quoting heartbroken_mr_drax:
However i think we've run out of steam here unless everyone is on holiday! lol
Well, it's Mardi Gras time in Louisiana, and that's an official holiday here, so no "LOL" is needed! But I think this topic has pretty well run its course. I certainly have said all I intend to say on it!
Vox clamantis in deserto
FelixLeiter ♀Staffordshire or a pubPosts: 1,286MI6 Agent
Haven't popped here before, so before this topic turns into dust I'll say my bit.
DAD DEFINITELY isn't my favourite Bond film - but it DEFINITELY isn't my least favourite either.
I agree with the thing about the gadgets in the second half of the film. Bond relies on them far too much instead of just using his own ingenuity to outwit the enemy. But the first half of the film was great! Sure, he was captured a bit too long - but remember the sword fight! That was pure class!
So when you think of DAD, don't think about the bad parts just think about the classic parts.
You know, the moment I try to find redeeming qualities for a movie why it doesn't suck... Is the moment when I truly realize that if I'm doing that, I didn't enjoy it. Period(?)
Agreed. Trying to enjoy a movie you don't like is akin to marrying a woman (or man) you don't love...except a movie is only a half hour long, and doesn't require a witness, and you can leave anytime you want. Okay...that's not a perfect simile.
Anyway. In DAD's defense, I've run out of bad things to say about this. Not only is the horse I've been flogging dead, it's starting to stink.
Some people will disagree with me, but the only good thing in DAD was PB. It wasn't his fault the movie sucked, and he made the film better than it was. If the person that played Bond would have been new, he would have been shot down just like George Lazenby was.
Just re-watched Die Another Day, it's pretty much a modern film of the Moonraker novel, and, with this in mind, I liked it. Still probably the worst Brosnan Bond, maybe a tie between this and the YOLT/TSWLM/MR remake of TND. At least there was a little bit of originality.
Did anyone notice the connection between DAD and Nick Fury – Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.?
The metal suit the villain wore at the end, the face-changing device, I could go on…
Nick Fury was a Marvel Comics character, a Sargent in WW2. During Bondmania he was resurrected as a secret agent in mid 1960’s. His most popular run was during Jim Steranko’s stint as writer / illustrator. A few years prior to DAD coming out, Steranko’s S.H.I.E.L.D. stories were collected and published in a trade paperback book. I wonder if the screenwriters were influenced by this work.
The DAD movie? What’s this? Bond captured – tortured? This is new ground for the cinematic Bond. This is going to be fun. History is cruel to optimists.
Bond meets the villain, ala Auric Goldfinger, socially. This time we have a fencing match instead of a golf game. Some have said this is the best part of the movie except it should have been the climax. Did anyone see Bond try to take off his opponent’s head with the Broadsword? Or give him a smashing right cross? Oh, you nicked me! Let’s do lunch. Goldfinger loses a game and says get lost. Bond works this guy over and he invites him to break bread.
I couldn’t see any way of coming back from the intensity of the conflict at this point. They had both tried to kill each other. Bond took care of Professor Dent for that kind of behavior.
As for the rest of the movie, it’s a great template for a video game, which I think the script was written for.
Quoting Daggard:
I'm so conflicted about this film I can't stand it. The first half is some of the best Bond goodness since Connery (Bond captured, investigating, meeting M under Big Ben, fencing with villain etc) THEN as soon as they hit the "ice palace" it turns to ****e - reminding me more of the Moonraker style - waaay OTT, CG, gadgets, explosions - bah. What a waste. Had they stayed true to the first half and kept the same tone, the same intrigue, the same thrills - it could have been Brosnan's best imo.
And that theme song? wtf were they thinking? Atrocious. They should have brought back Shirley Bassey imo, or if they HAD to go for someone modern, wht not David Bowie? I always thought he would have made a great Bond theme song. but asla. ****e city.
Brosnan deserved better than to go out like that.
Spot on! I was just about to make a post saying that you should only watch this film up to the point that Bond meets M in the disused underground station (taking care to switch off before the invisible car appears).
At this stage you may well feel like you are watching one of the best Bonds ever. Does any other movie fall from grace quite so spectacularly in the second half?
Quoting words:
Spot on! I was just about to make a post saying that you should only watch this film up to the point that Bond meets M in the disused underground station (taking care to switch off before the invisible car appears).
At this stage you may well feel like you are watching one of the best Bonds ever. Does any other movie fall from grace quite so spectacularly in the second half?
I would agree with you apart from the fact that there is some absolutely dire dialogue in the first half of the film. The Jinx/Bond meeting is a dreadful series of (very) weak innuendo, badly delivered. The daft Jinx dive is also in this section, plus also Bond's superhero-esque heart-stopping moment. In addition, the Blades dialogue and acting is just appalling. Does Tamahori actually know how to direct actors? Lifeless is about the best description of the Bond/Verity/Frost/Graves scene ... I can almost hear them reading the cue cards!
Sorry, there are just too many of these cringe-worthy moments riddling the whole film ...
FelixLeiter ♀Staffordshire or a pubPosts: 1,286MI6 Agent
I watched it on Friday night as they're doing something called Bond Season.
One word.
Dreadful.
The first half was wonderful! But the second half stunk! I mean remember "Hey boss. He beat your time." How lame was that?
Although I keep remembering these lines which I think are OK.
"Oh look - parachutes for the both of us. Whoops - not anymore. You see, Mr Bond. You can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you. Time to face destiny," *Pulls string and Graves flies out the window*
"Time to face gravity!" *kills Graves*
Quoting Predator: Quoting words:
Spot on! I was just about to make a post saying that you should only watch this film up to the point that Bond meets M in the disused underground station (taking care to switch off before the invisible car appears).
At this stage you may well feel like you are watching one of the best Bonds ever. Does any other movie fall from grace quite so spectacularly in the second half?
I would agree with you apart from the fact that there is some absolutely dire dialogue in the first half of the film. The Jinx/Bond meeting is a dreadful series of (very) weak innuendo, badly delivered. The daft Jinx dive is also in this section, plus also Bond's superhero-esque heart-stopping moment. In addition, the Blades dialogue and acting is just appalling. Does Tamahori actually know how to direct actors? Lifeless is about the best description of the Bond/Verity/Frost/Graves scene ... I can almost hear them reading the cue cards!
Sorry, there are just too many of these cringe-worthy moments riddling the whole film ...
Totally agree, Pred. It's almost like a whole new genre Tamorhi is creating, like Moulin Rouge or something.
That said it's sort of OK as just eyecandy for the first bit, not having to get involved in the plot or believablity. No decent jokes though.
Quoting JakeL:
There's no real tense in DAD. I just couldn't care less about Bond's personal issues, I'd like to see him actually save the World again. Hasn't anyone else got tired that in Brosnan's films Bond was always in some way personally involved in the case. I think it's time to let Bond be a World-saving hero again, with nothing personal in it. ?:)
Yeah I agree. What I loved about the Roger Moore movies is that, basically he didn't really give a toss about anyone. He turned up saved the world shagged a few women & then buggered off to the next job leaving a trail of broken hearts in his wake.
My problem with DAD is that it was a bit over the top for me. I mean, I'm all for technology but isn't stuff like vanishing cars, an ice palace and a huge satellite that destroys a whole minefield a bit ridculous? Or is it just me?
Quoting Mr Thomas:
My problem with DAD is that it was a bit over the top for me. I mean, I'm all for technology but isn't stuff like vanishing cars, an ice palace and a huge satellite that destroys a whole minefield a bit ridculous? Or is it just me?
Agreed. DAD was extremely over the top, and the CGI was just horrendous. What used to make the Bond films special was, that, while other films were beginning to incorporate CGI into their films, the Bond producers were still having stuntmen do the majority of the action sequences instead of relying on computers. Actually doing the stunts will always come out ahead of CGI because it is real as opposed to artificial.
I didn't like the satellite idea in DAD. It seemed like it had been used too many times before, and that Robocop-like suit that Graves was wearing at the end just completely killed the ending of the movie for me. That kind of thing, at least to me, doesn't belong in a Bond film.
The whole ice-palace segment should have been taken out. It just doesn't work, even in the fantasy world that is the Bond universe. And, for once, I would like to see Bond have to rely on his own wits in order to survive instead of some stupid invisible car doing most of the work for him.
Quoting words: Quoting JakeL:
There's no real tense in DAD. I just couldn't care less about Bond's personal issues, I'd like to see him actually save the World again. Hasn't anyone else got tired that in Brosnan's films Bond was always in some way personally involved in the case. I think it's time to let Bond be a World-saving hero again, with nothing personal in it. ?:)
Yeah I agree. What I loved about the Roger Moore movies is that, basically he didn't really give a toss about anyone. He turned up saved the world shagged a few women & then buggered off to the next job leaving a trail of broken hearts in his wake.
Comments
The only thing you'd find in that tacky woman's eyes is a big gloop of mascara.
Cheap shot, I know, but it illustrates how little regard I have for Jinx or indeed most of the other characters in DAD. Not much to like at all.
"What took you so long?" Would make any person who saved your life smile especially if you just had an encounter with them and had feelings. But bond is a differnt story.
The person i thought was most pathetic was Micheal Madsen.
"Better make that two."
I ask you to re-read a post I made a few pages ago about Bond putting Jinx in that position. If that alone isnt reason enough to care, I dont know what is.
Furthermore, there is nothing close to romance between Frost and Bond. A relationship between Frost and Graves, now that would have been an interesting twist....
It might give you or I reason to care, but James Bond? My point is, he's spent the last fifty-odd years putting women in danger - some of whom weren't even in dangerous jobs. If Jinx had died, wouldn't he have dismissed it as a bit of bad luck? She's supposed to be a professional, she's supposed to know the risks. "She's a big girl, I figured she could look after herself"? But he's never shown this much concern about his women before, so why start now? What is so special about Jinx?
I didn't say there was. But if he must fall for someone in this film, it makes more sense for him to fall for Miranda, no? Let me stress this isn't based on my personal preference; I'm thinking that, if James Bond has a 'type', it'd be for someone a tad more refined than Jinx - and Miranda fit that bill nicely.
No i meant in the plane at the end!! lol
"Better make that two."
"Better make that two."
And that theme song? wtf were they thinking? Atrocious. They should have brought back Shirley Bassey imo, or if they HAD to go for someone modern, wht not David Bowie? I always thought he would have made a great Bond theme song. but asla. ****e city.
Brosnan deserved better than to go out like that.
"Better make that two."
but yes its an ok film.
However i think we've run out of steam here unless everyone is on holiday! lol
"Better make that two."
Well... How can argue with that... You're right.
Well, it's Mardi Gras time in Louisiana, and that's an official holiday here, so no "LOL" is needed! But I think this topic has pretty well run its course. I certainly have said all I intend to say on it!
DAD DEFINITELY isn't my favourite Bond film - but it DEFINITELY isn't my least favourite either.
I agree with the thing about the gadgets in the second half of the film. Bond relies on them far too much instead of just using his own ingenuity to outwit the enemy. But the first half of the film was great! Sure, he was captured a bit too long - but remember the sword fight! That was pure class!
So when you think of DAD, don't think about the bad parts just think about the classic parts.
Anyway. In DAD's defense, I've run out of bad things to say about this. Not only is the horse I've been flogging dead, it's starting to stink.
The metal suit the villain wore at the end, the face-changing device, I could go on…
Nick Fury was a Marvel Comics character, a Sargent in WW2. During Bondmania he was resurrected as a secret agent in mid 1960’s. His most popular run was during Jim Steranko’s stint as writer / illustrator. A few years prior to DAD coming out, Steranko’s S.H.I.E.L.D. stories were collected and published in a trade paperback book. I wonder if the screenwriters were influenced by this work.
The DAD movie? What’s this? Bond captured – tortured? This is new ground for the cinematic Bond. This is going to be fun. History is cruel to optimists.
Bond meets the villain, ala Auric Goldfinger, socially. This time we have a fencing match instead of a golf game. Some have said this is the best part of the movie except it should have been the climax. Did anyone see Bond try to take off his opponent’s head with the Broadsword? Or give him a smashing right cross? Oh, you nicked me! Let’s do lunch. Goldfinger loses a game and says get lost. Bond works this guy over and he invites him to break bread.
I couldn’t see any way of coming back from the intensity of the conflict at this point. They had both tried to kill each other. Bond took care of Professor Dent for that kind of behavior.
As for the rest of the movie, it’s a great template for a video game, which I think the script was written for.
Bond? Hardly.
Spot on! I was just about to make a post saying that you should only watch this film up to the point that Bond meets M in the disused underground station (taking care to switch off before the invisible car appears).
At this stage you may well feel like you are watching one of the best Bonds ever. Does any other movie fall from grace quite so spectacularly in the second half?
I would agree with you apart from the fact that there is some absolutely dire dialogue in the first half of the film. The Jinx/Bond meeting is a dreadful series of (very) weak innuendo, badly delivered. The daft Jinx dive is also in this section, plus also Bond's superhero-esque heart-stopping moment. In addition, the Blades dialogue and acting is just appalling. Does Tamahori actually know how to direct actors? Lifeless is about the best description of the Bond/Verity/Frost/Graves scene ... I can almost hear them reading the cue cards!
Sorry, there are just too many of these cringe-worthy moments riddling the whole film ...
One word.
Dreadful.
The first half was wonderful! But the second half stunk! I mean remember "Hey boss. He beat your time." How lame was that?
Although I keep remembering these lines which I think are OK.
"Oh look - parachutes for the both of us. Whoops - not anymore. You see, Mr Bond. You can't kill my dreams...but my dreams can kill you. Time to face destiny," *Pulls string and Graves flies out the window*
"Time to face gravity!" *kills Graves*
Totally agree, Pred. It's almost like a whole new genre Tamorhi is creating, like Moulin Rouge or something.
That said it's sort of OK as just eyecandy for the first bit, not having to get involved in the plot or believablity. No decent jokes though.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Yeah I agree. What I loved about the Roger Moore movies is that, basically he didn't really give a toss about anyone. He turned up saved the world shagged a few women & then buggered off to the next job leaving a trail of broken hearts in his wake.
Agreed. DAD was extremely over the top, and the CGI was just horrendous. What used to make the Bond films special was, that, while other films were beginning to incorporate CGI into their films, the Bond producers were still having stuntmen do the majority of the action sequences instead of relying on computers. Actually doing the stunts will always come out ahead of CGI because it is real as opposed to artificial.
I didn't like the satellite idea in DAD. It seemed like it had been used too many times before, and that Robocop-like suit that Graves was wearing at the end just completely killed the ending of the movie for me. That kind of thing, at least to me, doesn't belong in a Bond film.
The whole ice-palace segment should have been taken out. It just doesn't work, even in the fantasy world that is the Bond universe. And, for once, I would like to see Bond have to rely on his own wits in order to survive instead of some stupid invisible car doing most of the work for him.
Well put! I think you're absolutely right!