Spider-Man 3

asio

SuperHeroHype has just announced that Academy Award Best Supporting Actor Nominee Thomas Haden Church has just signed on to play the villain in the next Spider-Man film!
They won't give away who the character is just yet, but they have announced that Spider-Man 3 will be in cinemas on May 4, 2007.
You can check out the full details at http://www.superherohype.com/news/spider-mannews.php?id=2758

darenhat

I always assumed that the Hobgoblin (the son of the Green Goblin) was the next villian. That's where they left Spiderman 2. THC holds a resemblance to the DiFranco gentleman that played the role of young Osborne. Maybe they're swapping actors?

Secret Agent Man

Quoting darenhat:
I always assumed that the Hobgoblin (the son of the Green Goblin) was the next villian. That's where they left Spiderman 2. THC holds a resemblance to the DiFranco gentleman that played the role of young Osborne. Maybe they're swapping actors?

But you know Darehat...Harry Osborne was the one who found out about the Goblin lair,but Chruch could be the Hobgoblin. Although..Church more looks like The Sandman in te comics or maybe Eddie Brock! I was hoping maybe Venom would be in the third Spider-Man movie!

I think these are the choices...

-Hobgoblin(But It Seems More Like Harry would become him)
-The Sandman(Looks alot like him and even Sam Raimi said that the Sandman was on of his favorite villans)
-Venom!
-Electro
-Mysterio
-Scorpion

darenhat

In the comics the Hobgoblin was Norman Osborne's son...that's the only reason I made that assumption. Spiderman 2 also introduced Dr. Conner, who if I remember correctly, becomes the Lizard.

Hardyboy

Quoting darenhat:
In the comics the Hobgoblin was Norman Osborne's son...that's the only reason I made that assumption. Spiderman 2 also introduced Dr. Conner, who if I remember correctly, becomes the Lizard.

Actually, Harry Osborne became the second Green Goblin--Hobgoblin was someone else entirely. Dr. Connors is indeed The Lizard, and I was sort-of hoping he might be the baddie in Spidey 3, if for no other reason than I like Dylan Baker, who plays him.

Anyway, I've been following the Spidey hype, and as I posted on the "New Bond Talk" thread, I've heard that the next villain will be Venom. . .BUT that Sam Raimi wants to take a more serious, less-FX-dominated approach to the film. I don't know what to make of any of this, since Spidey himself can only move convincingly through FX, and there are very few Spidey villains who wouldn't need CGI-enhancement.

Secret Agent Man

Quoting darenhat:
In the comics the Hobgoblin was Norman Osborne's son...that's the only reason I made that assumption. Spiderman 2 also introduced Dr. Conner, who if I remember correctly, becomes the Lizard.

Actually though Darehat...to clear things up...Harry Osborne took over the Green Goblin costume after his Dad and became the second Green Goblin. So I think it was Ned Leeds who became the Hobgoblin ahd later Jason Mcendale.

Nightshooter

Yeah, I thought Osbourne was Green Goblin 2 and not HobGoblin. I think that it would be crappy to have Hobgoblin be the next baddie, because we had that type of charcetr in the first film. We need a difference. I don't Haden Church would be the right actor, but I would love to see that entire Kraven Saga happen. The one where Kraven buries Spidey. That would be awesome.

asio

I suggested to my brother that Thomas Haden Church could play Professor Miles Warren, aka The Jackal, and that Spider-Man would fight off against his clone, the Scarlet Spider! Okay, it's a bit out there, and I was only half-joking.
Seriously though, Maart (my brother) read an interview with a graphic artist from Sony, who revealed that he was creating designs for both the Man Wolf and for Venom!
The interesting thing, though, is that the interview was pulled off the internet shortly after Maart read it!

ps. It's good to see there are some Spidey fans here at AJB!!!

darenhat

Ah! Forgive me for my faulty memory (and it's only getting worse!) I had to dust off my copy of Amazing Spiderman #289 to learn that the Hobgoblin was in fact Ned Leeds, and later he does do battle with the second Green Goblin in #312 (fantastically illustrated by Todd MacFarlane). Thanks for giving me cause to bust out my old comics!

Secret Agent Man

Quoting darenhat:
Ah! Forgive me for my faulty memory (and it's only getting worse!) I had to dust off my copy of Amazing Spiderman #289 to learn that the Hobgoblin was in fact Ned Leeds, and later he does do battle with the second Green Goblin in #312 (fantastically illustrated by Todd MacFarlane). Thanks for giving me cause to bust out my old comics!

No problem Darehat! You can't forget that it was the Green Goblin also who played a big part in the death of Gwen Stacy.

Nightshooter

Ahh, but who killed her, Goblin... or Spidey...?

asio

Good question.
The Green Goblin knocked her off the bridge, but it was Spider-Man's mid-air web-catch that broke her spine (ouch!).
Also, it was Dr. Octopus who killed Gwen Stacy's father, in similar fashion. Doc Ock knocked some bricks from the top of a building, and Captain Stacy was killed after he pushed a small child out of harms way (I heard he was crushed when he found out he wasn't going to be in Spider-Man 2!)

Hardyboy

Wow--you guys really know your stuff! By 1980 I was pretty well out of comic books, so, even though I knew about the Hobgoblin, I wasn't aware that he was Ned Leeds. Wasn't he the guy who married Betty Brant? As for Doc Ock and Gwen Stacey's father--more stuff I didn't know. I guess I should stop relying on my old Spidey knowledge, which dates from the 1970s.

That said, I've thumbed through a few recent Spidey comics, and they really make me feel old. They're certainly more beautiful than the old newspaper-pulp comix I read (and much more expensive--I remember when they were just 35 cents!), and the art is magnificent. But I'm really not too fond of the "anime" look that's been given to the characters, and I really miss the snarky narration provided (or at least inspired) by Stan "The Man" Lee: "Don't worry, true believers--if we killed Spidey now, what would we call this comic book?", etc. There was a sense of self-mockery and fun there that I think is sorely lacking today.

And could somebody please tell me what this "Ultimate Spider-Man" thing is about? Is this Spidey in an alternate universe, or what?

Hmph! In my day. . .

darenhat

Yeah...The "Ultimate" titles are basically a new skew on the classic characters. Don't go in for them very much myself. And the ultimate Spiderman is just not fun to look at (too cartoony)

I dropped out of the comic scene around 1990 and have had a hard time jumping back in. Marvel hit on a big marketing ploy by basically "ending" their title runs and "starting over" with new #1 issues, and for the most part ignoring any story arcs that came before. Now, whenever sales start to slip, Marvel institutes a big "Do-over" and begins a new volume which gives their sales a bump as all the collectors buy up the first issues.

But, gosh, it makes it a big pain in the neck when buying back issues. I've got Captain America comics that span at least three volumes. It's maddening!

asio

Darenhat, I feel the same way about Ultimate Spider Man. I also found it strange and annoying that Spider-Man didn't really show up until the third issue, and even now, he's only in costume every 2 and 1/2 issues or so. I've given up on this "universe".
So that's why I've stuck with the original, friendly Neighbourhood Spider-Man! Even when they go though low points, like when Peter's parents were actually robots, or when Aunt May was played by an actress for five years, you're always guaranteed to see one of the great, original superheroes!

Mr Martini

A question about Spiderman 2 and how it could lead to Spidey 3. I remember a wedding in Spidey 2. The wedding had an astronaut(sorry, can't remember his name). In the comics wasn't he the same guy who brought back Venom from space? And couldn't Venom just be a sub-villian or Henchman?

asio

Spider-Man brought the "black costume" back with him from another planet, after his red-and-blue costume was destroyed in a battle. The black costume started to take over control of his mind, so Spider-Man disposed of it. The costume then bonded with out-of-work reporter Eddie Brock, whose hated for Spider-Man (mixed with his powers which the costume "stole') eventually created Venom. Thomas Haden Church could play Venom, but he would need to bulk up a bit.
The astronaut in Spider-Man 2 was John Jameson (Jonah's son) who, in the comics, became the Man-Wolf after a visit to the Moon.

darenhat

Asio's got it. Spiderman picked up the black costume during the first Secret War, modeled to some degree after the new Spider Woman's outfit. It came in handy, because he just had to "think" it on, and not do all of that pesky undressing! I sometimes wondered though if Marvel was simply trying to simply create a costume that easier to draw than the original, but it never really took and it evolved into the whole Venom storyline.

Secret Agent Man

Quoting asio:
Spider-Man brought the "black costume" back with him from another planet, after his red-and-blue costume was destroyed in a battle. The black costume started to take over control of his mind, so Spider-Man disposed of it. The costume then bonded with out-of-work reporter Eddie Brock, whose hated for Spider-Man (mixed with his powers which the costume "stole') eventually created Venom. Thomas Haden Church could play Venom, but he would need to bulk up a bit.
The astronaut in Spider-Man 2 was John Jameson (Jonah's son) who, in the comics, became the Man-Wolf after a visit to the Moon.

And also the Fantastic Four were included with the black costume. And then a little later Venom came Carnage! I think though as it was mentioned earlier that Ultimate Spider-Man and the other Ultimate titles were just made to get younger folks in to the orgin of Spidey. I think its pretty good. But I do like the other Spidey comics better.

Mr Martini

One more question about Spiderman and the movies. How true to the comics is Spiderman. Is the way Spiderman came to be in the movies the same as in the comics, and how about the rest of the Villians Green Goblin, Doc Oc. Did I forget any one?

darenhat

Spiderman's origin was certainly updated a bit. He originally gained his powers by being bitten by a radioactive spider (back in the day when radioactivity was all the rage). Now, it's a genetically-enhanced spider, which makes things seem a bit more modern. The thing I thought was interesting was Spidey's new "web-spinning" capability - actually biologically producing the web like a spider, rather than inventing his very own web fluid and web shooters which constantly needed refilling. The storyline in Spiderman was actually very, very close to the things that make Peter Parker who he is - the challenge with Bonesaw, the fleeing of the robber, and the resultant murder of Uncle Ben of which Peter feels perenially responsible for.

Ultimate Spiderman twists things quite a bit, so don't look for too many similiarities there.

Mr Martini

Cool. Thanks darenhat. Then I guess they stayed true to creation of Doc Oc and Green Goblin also?

darenhat

Honestly, I can't seem to recall the true origins of The Green Goblin and Doc Oc, so I can't verify many details, other than the fact that Norman and Harry Osborne did have a bit of a Green Goblin dynasty.

Secret Agent Man

Green Goblin-Norman Osborn was looking for a formula that could increase people's strength and intelligence,but Harry had accidently switched a few of his chemicals while Norman tried to redo his the chemicals which turned green and exploded and it worked but it also made him insane.

Doc Ock-He was changed a little becuase he was a teacher of Peter Parker's at a Science camp that he had went to. So not really any big changes.

Hardyboy

Quoting darenhat:
Honestly, I can't seem to recall the true origins of The Green Goblin and Doc Oc, so I can't verify many details, other than the fact that Norman and Harry Osborne did have a bit of a Green Goblin dynasty.

I have the first four volumes of the original Stan Lee/Steve Ditko (later, Lee and John Romita) Spider-Man comics, and the unadulterated creation stories are as follow:

Doctor Octopus: An egotistical scientist who was using his mechanical arms (controlled by a bunch of buttons on the chest piece) to handle atomic materials. The materials he was working on exploded, fusing the arms to his body and leaving him with the power to control them through his mind. (Man, that atomic energy sure is wonderful!) Doc Ock's egotism was also magnified, leaving him with the belief that he is the perfect human and that he has the right to commit any crime he wants.

Green Goblin: He was in several issues before his identity was revealed. In fact, his true identity was kept a mystery--his real face would be in the shadows or hidden by various objects. Stan Lee and company had a lot of fun hinting that Gobby might be J. Jonah Jameson or someone else. Shortly after Norman Osborne was introduced, we learned that he is the Goblin. In the flashback story Norman narrates, he had stolen the Goblin's technology from a business partner he framed for a crime and had sent to prison. Norman also found his partner's notes for a scientific experiment, and he tried it out for himself. After several attempts, it exploded in his face, leaving him paranoid and hungry for crime. No mention is made of his gaining super-strength or anything else.

Old school guy that I am, I prefer these origins to the more complicated, Freudian ones that came later.

darenhat

Thanks, Hardyboy. Curiously enough, as I peruse me comic library, I don't seem to have any Spidey issues that really feature Doctor Octopus (although I do have one that features a a Doc Oc-like boy). If I remember correctly, he did take part in the first Secret War, but I think that's all I got.

The Sandman or the Rhino would be my next picks for villians in Spidey. I guess any villian will do, all I ask is that J.K. Simmons return as J. Jonah Jameson. Before I stepped into the theater to see Spiderman 1 , I was cursed with the haunting memory of Robert F. Simon's terrible perm-haired portrayal in the 1970s!

Mr Martini

Thank you every one. You all seem to be veryn knowledgable in the world of Spiderman. I always take great intrest when it comes to the comic book movies especialy Batman and now Spiderman. I also like to know how certain villians started in the comics and how it differs from the movies. I know Batman changes some of the rules a bit. I just wish a comic book movie would come out that would stick to the original comic book creation.

darenhat

Needless to say, adapting the comic medium to screen is incredibly challenging, and we see so many failed attempts. Spiderman is by far the most impressive to me, managing to maintain the realism of the world and the problems of the people in it, while filling it with unreal elements. Richard Donner's Superman is second, in my book. Tim Burton's Batman suceeded by ditching the real world element of it and creating basically a fantasy world for the character to exist in. The same can be said for Warren Beatty's Dick Tracy.

One of the most challenging aspects is trying to convince an audience why their hero is donning brightly colored tights to fight crime. I had to laugh at 1991's weakly attempted Captain America movie. No one in the story could really explain why the U.S Super Soldier wore such attention-getting garb while performing his secret mission. All they could say was that the lady who created the outfit "really loved the ol' Red, White, and Blue!" Even the filmmakers seemed embarassed by the costume because they had him wear a trenchcoat over it for most of the film.

Oddly enough, the one superhero who is perfect for today's cinema has yet to have a film made, and that's Iron Man. He doesn't have an outlandish costume, you don't have some strange "how did he get his powers?" storyline to tell, and he doesn't really fight weird villians (not counting Modok) that need a whole lot of explaining. The concept of Iron Man has always been about Technology, so updating the story a bit is not going to bother any purists really. And with modern CGI effects, Hollywood could do very cool and faithful adaptions.

Secret Agent Man

Quoting Mr Martini:
Thank you every one. You all seem to be veryn knowledgable in the world of Spiderman. I always take great intrest when it comes to the comic book movies especialy Batman and now Spiderman. I also like to know how certain villians started in the comics and how it differs from the movies. I know Batman changes some of the rules a bit. I just wish a comic book movie would come out that would stick to the original comic book creation.

Maybe Batman Begins won't disappoint you this Summer Mr.Martini. Two movies that really didn't stay to true to the comics were The Hulk and Catwoman.

asio

One comic book movie that stayed true to it's source material was Hellboy. I think that the only thing they changed was the name of the Professor.
My brother Maarten is a big BPRD fan, and he can't wait to see what they have in the sequel (which has just been greenlit).

Hardyboy

Quoting asio:
One comic book movie that stayed true to it's source material was Hellboy. I think that the only thing they changed was the name of the Professor. My brother Maarten is a big BPRD fan, and he can't wait to see what they have in the sequel (which has just been greenlit).

Actually, Hellboy is very different from the original Mike Mignola comic--in fact, director Guillermo del Toro calls his film a "jazz riff" on the comic. To give you some examples: Professor Brougham dies on page 2 of the very first HB comic; Hellboy is a paranormal investigator who works in the open, and whose appearance doesn't even raise eyebrows; there's no romance between HB and Liz, etc. The movie is most faithful to the comic in terms of its look and in a few scenes that were clearly inspired by Mignola, such as the talking corpse HB slings over his shoulder. Still, I like both versions of Hellboy--just as I like both Ian Fleming's Bond and the film version.