You were joking? I apologise if that is the case...but bear in mind that this is the Internet, so things like humour, irony and sarcasm can often be lost without vocal expression to carry them.
Carry on.
i was joking--but no need to apologize---your description of the internet is quite accurate---
as i look over everyones rankings theres a wide range of opinions but also some consistency in certain areas--but the one thing that really surprises me is the consistently low ranking for DAD--i mean, ok, it was a little outrageous& derivative, the dialogue was terribly corny at times and the horrible special efects ruined potentially good scenes, but come on----all the great in-jokes, relics from older films, the capture of Bond,Brosnan's performance, etc etc--i think its infinitely better than say, TMWTGG, LALD, AVTAK, and others. Why all the hate? If youre a DAD hater, Please explain.
Just to warn you about the can of worms you may of opened up! So long as you a prepared to every one who responds please please keep it a discussion and not an all out war! Thanks.
Personally I don't hate DAD, in fact I quite enjoy it. I was dissapointed though. On a list it would probably be about half way but to make that list accurate I think i'd need to watch all the films again.
It dissapointed me because I had jumped into all the hype with my eyes closed. It was still enjoyable though and upto the middle an excellent film. Driving through the glaciers was some brillaint imagery. It's a shame that the story seemed to head south.
Like I say though definatley not at the bottom of a list.
Just to warn you about the can of worms you may of opened up! So long as you a prepared to every one who responds please please keep it a discussion and not an all out war! Thanks.
In fact, there is a good thread here: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=24386 in which people outline why they do or don't like DAD (there are several other threads as well in this forum)
thanks for the tip--i checked out the die another thread and saw people's reactions---but i still loved DAD--saw it 4 times in the theatres (i guess i see them all 4 times in the theatre,good or bad) and saw it already about 4 times on dvd.I agree tat the final 1/3 was not up to par with the rest of th film, but overall i thought it was great fun and far superrior to most of the Moores.
The first four adventures will never be equalled. Not in scope, not in scale, not in originality. True classics.
(my two cents, only one insignificant person in a globally diverse fan base)
Make that 2 insignificant persons!
I completely agree with you. GF is IMO as close to perfection Bond has ever gotten. FRWL IMO would be the greatest ever Bond film if GF had never been made. Those two films are arguably flawless. TB, on the other hand, is flawed, but it has so many wonderful things going for it, that I never notice the flaws whch IMO are minimal. TB was arguably the greatest post-GF Bond film ever made (GF being the point where the Bond films IMO reached their peak). TB is my third favorite Bond film after GF and FRWL. DN, which is my fourth favorite Bond film, had some short-comings but as a first film in a series which had yet to truly establish its identity, I think it was absolutely brilliant.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
hey this is my first post! this is my bond ranking.
1.Goldeneye
2.From Russia With Love
3.OHMSS
4.You Only Live Twice
5. Tommorrow Never Dies
6. The Spy Who Loved Me
7. The Living Daylights
8. Goldfinger
9. Octopussy
10. Licence To Kill
11. The World is not enough
12. For Your Eyes Only
13. A View To A Kill
14. Dr No
15. Moontaker
16. Thunderball
17. Live and Let Die
18. Die Another Day
19. Diamonds Are Forever
20. The Man With the Golden Gun
1-14 are all excellent. 15-18 are ok. 19 and 20 i can't stand
Frosty, what is it with you and Goldeneye? Why do you dislike it so much? It's considered by many to be one of the best in the series... don't tell me you don't like Natalya, that would be an unwise choice!
Frosty, what is it with you and Goldeneye? Why do you dislike it so much? It's considered by many to be one of the best in the series... don't tell me you don't like Natalya, that would be an unwise choice!
I'm not Frosty, but believe me, you don't want to hear my full answer for this question...
Frosty, what is it with you and Goldeneye? Why do you dislike it so much? It's considered by many to be one of the best in the series... don't tell me you don't like Natalya, that would be an unwise choice!
I'm not Frosty, but believe me, you don't want to hear my full answer for this question...
Cat, I know that you don't like GE (which is why I don't invite you to any of my Brosnan/GE nights ) but surely you don't dislike GE as much as Frosty? It is her least favorite film. She even dislikes it even worse than DAD.
Perhaps I'm wrong Cat, but surely you dislike GE less than DAD or do you hate all Brosnan films the same?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Frosty, what is it with you and Goldeneye? Why do you dislike it so much? It's considered by many to be one of the best in the series... don't tell me you don't like Natalya, that would be an unwise choice!
I'm not Frosty, but believe me, you don't want to hear my full answer for this question...
Cat, I know that you don't like GE (which is why I don't invite you to any of my Brosnan/GE nights ) but surely you don't dislike GE as much as Frosty? It is her least favorite film. She even dislikes it even worse than DAD.
Perhaps I'm wrong Cat, but surely you dislike GE less than DAD or do you hate all Brosnan films the same?
I think Frosty was a bit generous when he gave it the twentieth place. I usually rank it around 30th... Regarding the Brosnan Bonds, you're right in the assumption that they take the last four spots on a virtual list. I don't think I ever posted a full list, because I can't rank the others, but for you, I'll rank the bottom of the barrel.
TND: Entertaining first half, awful second. Great music, plus Elliot Carver - the only thing I remember from the era with fondness.
TWINE: Consistantly mediocre and boring, and even the the music is below my favourite Arnolds, so it goes behind TND. Plus it has no Elliot Carver.
DAD: Bad in every possible way... but good music!
GE: Bad in every possible way... and the music is even worse than that. Couldn't find redeeming features in the past ten years, doubt I'd find any later.
I think Frosty was a bit generous when he gave it the twentieth place. I usually rank it around 30th... Regarding the Brosnan Bonds, you're right in the assumption that they take the last four spots on a virtual list. I don't think I ever posted a full list, because I can't rank the others, but for you, I'll rank the bottom of the barrel.
TND: Entertaining first half, awful second. Great music, plus Elliot Carver - the only thing I remember from the era with fondness.
TWINE: Consistantly mediocre and boring, and even the the music is below my favourite Arnolds, so it goes behind TND. Plus it has no Elliot Carver.
DAD: Bad in every possible way... but good music!
GE: Bad in every possible way... and the music is even worse than that. Couldn't find redeeming features in the past ten years, doubt I'd find any later.
So that's basically the short answer.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
On my list, GE is ranked 7th, TWINE is ranked 12th, TND is ranked 13th and DAD is ranked 18th.
In regards to your comments-
TND:I too enjoyed the first half more than the second. I felt that the film went downhill as soon as it became clear that Yeoh was intended to be Bond's equal. Carver, IMO, wasn't anything special. Among Brosnan villains, I had preferred Alex in GE. That's not to say, that I disliked Carver. It's just that among the mega-rich megamaniacs, Bond had done better. I felt that TND had some really good moments (Dr.Kaufman, the car, the translator) but the film never really ascended. It's a fun film, but to me, it'll always be a midle-of-the-order Bond.
TWINE:I will have to strongly disagree with you about TWINE. For me, it remains one of the most fascinating Bonds of all time, for two reasons. What it is and what it could have been. TWINE, IMO, had the potential to be one of the absolute greatest Bond films of all time, one that could rival the first 4 as absolute classics. Unfortunity, it din't happen. The script was flawed and so it was prevented IMO from attaining true greatness. As it is, it is IMO a fantastic film that features Brosnan's best performance since GE and is a fascinating film from a psychological point of view. The script, while not perfect, is still fantastic, and it has numerous other things going for it including an amazing PTS and one of the greatest closing lines of all time. It's number 12th on my list, but that says more about the films ahead of it than it does about TWINE. Plus, TWINE for me remains the cut-off point for Bondian Greatness.
The top 12 films on my list, inc TWINE, are IMO great while the other 8 films are not.
DAD:Terrible, terrible, terrible, terible etc... It really disappointed me but like all Bond films I can find at least one good thing about it. For me it was Brosnan's perfrormance.
As well as the duel. DAD is one of only three Bond films (the others being AVTAK and TLD) which I would describe as terrible.
GE:I won't say much except that I consider it to be a true Bondian masterpiece. I absolutely loved it. Is it flawed? Of course, there is far too much psycho-analysing in that film to last me a lifetime, but I'm willing to forgive it as GE is a film that I can rewatch numerous times and marvel at just what an amazing Bond Brosnan was. I consider GE to be the best Bond film since TSWLM.
I guess, Cat, it all comes down to the actor. You dislike Brosnan which is probably why you ranked his films in your bottom 4, while I love Brosnan which is a big reason why I ranked 3 of his films so highly. Simialrly, my feelings towards Dalton reflect his position on my list.
This is my top 20:
1)GOLDFINGER
2)FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
3)THUNDERBALL
4)DR. NO
5)YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
6)THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
7)GOLDENEYE
8)FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
9)ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
10)LIVE AND LET DIE
11)DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
12)THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
13)TOMORROW NEVER DIES
14)THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
15)OCTOPUSSY
16)MOONRAKER
17)LICENCE TO KIL
18)DIE ANOTHER DAY
19)THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
20)A VIEW TO A KILL
(Numbers 1-12 are great, 13-17 are middle-of-the-road, 18-20 are terrible.)
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I guess, Cat, it all comes down to the actor. You dislike Brosnan which is probably why you ranked his films in your bottom 4, while I love Brosnan which is a big reason why I ranked 3 of his films so highly.
I think it is the other way around - I dislike Brosnan because of his films. Or so does the chicken and the egg told me.
I think it is the other way around - I dislike Brosnan because of his films. Or so does the chicken and the egg told me.
There's an easy way to determine wether it is the actor. Lets say you are told that a Fleming novel that you absolutely loved was brought to the screen. The producers will be as faithful to it as cinema allows (Baccaret will not be replaced by Texas Hold-em for example ).
A director whom you acknowledge is brilliant was hired (perhaps Tarantino) as well as a screen-writer, composer, cinematographer and leading lady whom you all adore. The best fight co-ordinator is hired and the studio has made it known that in this case art must take a precedence over box office. It is the Bond film of you dreams. You have no complaints until the leading man is chosen. Here's the $million question, if Brosnan was hired, would your dreams be shattered or would you not care as it will most certainly be a great film anyway. If you don't care then it's the films, but if you do care, then it's the actor.
(Personally, if it was Dalton I would care, for when it comes to Dalton, I have a problem with the actor first and films second. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Aha! Very clever, Dan. And there are two answers. If Brosnan never did a Bond movie before and said fantasy film would be the first one to judge by, than sure. But given his track record of four bottom entries, than no, I wouldn't be enthusastic at all. It's like Pavlov's dog really. When you associate something (or somebody) in this case with an unpleasent experience (or four unpleasent experiences), the two are just linked together.
1. Goldeneye ?:)
2. The Living Daylights ?:)
3. Licence To Kill ?:)
4. For Your Eyes Only
5. The Man With the Golden Gun
6. Diamonds Are Forever
7. The Spy Who Loved Me
8. Octopussy
9. Die Another Day
10. Goldfinger
11. Live and Let Die
12. The World is not enough
13. A View To A Kill
14. Moonraker
15. Tommorrow Never Dies
16. Thunderball
17.You Only Live Twice
18.??
19.??
20.From Russia With Love
(1 to 3,THE BEST!!) (4 to 7, Good!) (8 to 14, okay) (15 to 17, so so) (18&19,??) (20, NOOO! anything but, that!)
unseen 007 Films:
. Dr No
. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
Hmmm...Cat, can't say that I agree with you. I happen to think that Brosnanis very good. He had his very own stly which I really liked. However, the Bond you really like depends usually on who you saw first.
1)Goldfinger
2)From Russia With Love
3)You Only Live Twice
4)On Her Majesty's Secret Service
5)Live and Let Die
6)The Living Daylights
7)Dr No
8)Goldeneye
9)The Spy Who Loved Me
10)Thunderball
11)The Man With the Golden Gun
12)For Your Eyes Only
13)A View To a Kill
14)The World is Not Enough
15)Licence To Kill
16)Die Another Day
17)Diamonds Are Forever
18)Tomorrow Never Dies
19)Moonraker
20)Octopussy
I don't hate any of them. I will watch pretty much any Bond Movie....It just depends on what mood I'm in. I like them all but 1-10 are my absolute favorites.
Harry Palmer Somewhere in the past ...Posts: 325MI6 Agent
HI! I'm new to this forum and I'm glad I've found a discussion that's after my own heart. Also, it's good to see that the underrated Dalton movies are getting a lot of respect here.
Here's my list (pretty old-fashioned tastes)
The greats:
1. From Russia with Love (Classics)
2. The Spy Who Loved Me
3. The Living Daylights (Return to basics)
4. Tomorrow Never Dies
5. For Your Eyes Only
Good ones but flawed:
6. The World is Not Enough (Ruined by Richards)
7. Goldfinger (Best villain, but...)
8. Thunderball
9. License to Kill
10. You Only Live Twice
11. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
12. Dr. No
13. Goldeneye
Below Average:
14. Die Another Day
15. Diamonds Are Forever
16. A View to a Kill
Failures:
17. The Man With the Golden Gun
18. Moonraker
19. Octopussy
20. Live and Let Die
Hi Harry Palmer, allow me to be the first to welcome you to ajb. It's a great site and I'm sure you'll have a fantastic time.
My top 20 is slightly different to yours as you can see from one of my posts on this same page. GF is number 1 on my list, which brings me to my question.
But what? I promise I'll try not to be too offended by your answer!
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
My list has changed yet again, but I think this time it's for real!!
1. For Your Eyes Only
2. The Spy Who Loved Me
3. Octopussy
4. The Living Daylights
5. Tomorrow Never Dies
6. Goldeneye
7. A View To A Kill
8. Moonraker
9. The Man With The Golden Gun
10. Thunderball
11. From Russia With Love
12. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
13. Goldfinger
14. Diamonds Are Forever
15. Licens To Kill
16. The World Is Not Enough
17. Dr. No
18. Live And Let Die
19. You Only Live Twice
20. Die Another Day
Harry Palmer Somewhere in the past ...Posts: 325MI6 Agent
Hi there Dan Same! I looked at your list... some good calls, no doubt about that, but we'll have to agree to disagree about Dalton. I think after the silliness and the camp of some of the Moore films the sobriety Dalton brought to the characters was a much needed turn for the better.
As for your Goldfinger question: it's easily answered: as far as Bond-cliches go, it wins so many prizes (best villain; best memorable villain line; great henchman; great song; love the golf-game; love the Bond--henchman showdown), but I find it weak where it comes to resolution, which depends so much on a Pussy Galore change of heart.
I'm also not crazy (in general) about big army-invasions at the end.
Having said all that, I admit that Godlfinger is the most imitated and most trend-setting of all the bond-movies, and you could probably divide most of the bond movies into two groups: those that follow the GF pattern and movies that follow the FRWL pattern.
Hi there Dan Same! I looked at your list... some good calls, no doubt about that, but we'll have to agree to disagree about Dalton. I think after the silliness and the camp of some of the Moore films the sobriety Dalton brought to the characters was a much needed turn for the better.
You're right that we'll have to agree to disagree. While some of the Moore films were quite sillly, I actually feel that their tough aspect is quite underrated. Nonetheless, that's a discussion for another time.
As for your Goldfinger question: it's easily answered: as far as Bond-cliches go, it wins so many prizes (best villain; best memorable villain line; great henchman; great song; love the golf-game; love the Bond--henchman showdown), but I find it weak where it comes to resolution, which depends so much on a Pussy Galore change of heart.
I actually love the Pussy change of heart. Why? Because she changed her heart (and arguably her sexual orientation as well) after being with Bond. Only James Bond would be able to do that!
Having said all that, I admit that Godlfinger is the most imitated and most trend-setting of all the bond-movies, and you could probably divide most of the bond movies into two groups: those that follow the GF pattern and movies that follow the FRWL pattern.
You're right that the Bond films can be divided into those two groups: the bigger-budget, more fantastic films like GF and the more realistic, smaller-budget films like FRWL. But as someone who has GF and FRWL at number 1 and 2 on my list respectively, I have no problem with a film following either GF or FRWL, as long as it's of good quality. (I would make a comment about the Dalton films, but I'll leave that until we get to know each better. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
would anyone agree that a third category is also possible--the YOLT formula, followed by Spy, Moonraker and TnD. Similar to GF formula,but not exactly the same.
Everyone seems to compare AVTAK and GF to being identical but has anyone also thought TWINE is similar? Here's the basic plots:
GF: Auric Goldfinger, a prominent gold industrialist tries to corner the gold market with a nuclear blast in Fort Knox, his competition.
AVTAK: Max Zorin, a prominent computer industrialist tries to corner the microchip market with an earthquake and flooding Silicon Valley, his competition.
TWINE: Elektra King, a prominent oil industrialist tries to corner the oil market with a NUCLEAR BLAST in Istanbul to cut off the other oil pipelines in Russia, her competition.
Am I the only one who noticed that? Plus, the plot has gone across 3 Bonds!
I believe every Bond movie takes an element from another. But no one mentions TWINE's similarities to GF but EVERYONE mentions AVTAK's similarities to GF. I call it unfair...
NOTE: THIS COMMENT WAS NOT SPONSORED BY THE NSA NOR INTENDED TO CREATE A NEW AVTAK ARGUMENT AND IF IT HAPPENS I DIDN'T START IT.
But no one mentions TWINE's similarities to GF but EVERYONE mentions AVTAK's similarities to GF. I call it unfair...
This is what Good ol'Wikipedia has to say:
In Goldfinger, the villain's scheme is to irradiate the entire US gold reserve, making it worthless, causing financial meltdown in the West plus Auric Goldfinger's personal gold stocks will increase in value tenfold; correspondingly in A View To A Kill, Max Zorin intends to destroy Silicon Valley by triggering a massive earthquake, thus leaving his company with a monopoly on the microchip market (also similar to the plot of the 1978 film Superman: The Movie).
As in Goldfinger, one of the business partners in the scam gets cold feet and would rather take the money and run. While Mr. Solo was assassinated by Oddjob and his body disposed of in a car crusher, in A View To A Kill, the dissenter in the ranks is dropped from Zorin's airship and into San Francisco Bay.
Both Zorin and Goldfinger are being bankrolled by the Communists: in the former case, Zorin is an ex-KGB agent, while the atom bomb intended to destroy Fort Knox is supplied by the Chinese.
Arkov. He seems to get nervous of the scheme after the parahawks are destroyed and that people will start asking questions and it will get to hot for him. Then he was ELIMINATED.
Zorin wasn't bankrolled by the Commies though, he WAS when he worked with the KGB but then he LEFT. And Gogol was really ****ed off and whatnot so I doubt he was bankrolled then and then Gogol's line.
M: I thought the Russians would celebrate is Silicon Valley had been destroyed!
Gogol: On the contrary, Admiral, where would Russian research be WITHOUT it?
So Gogol needed Silicon Valley and the Commies weren't bankrolling Zorin. They bankrolled Goldfinger but not Zorin and not Elektra who share similar plots.
Comments
Just to warn you about the can of worms you may of opened up! So long as you a prepared to every one who responds please please keep it a discussion and not an all out war! Thanks.
Personally I don't hate DAD, in fact I quite enjoy it. I was dissapointed though. On a list it would probably be about half way but to make that list accurate I think i'd need to watch all the films again.
It dissapointed me because I had jumped into all the hype with my eyes closed. It was still enjoyable though and upto the middle an excellent film. Driving through the glaciers was some brillaint imagery. It's a shame that the story seemed to head south.
Like I say though definatley not at the bottom of a list.
In fact, there is a good thread here: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=24386 in which people outline why they do or don't like DAD (there are several other threads as well in this forum)
(my two cents, only one insignificant person in a globally diverse fan base)
Make that 2 insignificant persons!
I completely agree with you. GF is IMO as close to perfection Bond has ever gotten. FRWL IMO would be the greatest ever Bond film if GF had never been made. Those two films are arguably flawless. TB, on the other hand, is flawed, but it has so many wonderful things going for it, that I never notice the flaws whch IMO are minimal. TB was arguably the greatest post-GF Bond film ever made (GF being the point where the Bond films IMO reached their peak). TB is my third favorite Bond film after GF and FRWL. DN, which is my fourth favorite Bond film, had some short-comings but as a first film in a series which had yet to truly establish its identity, I think it was absolutely brilliant.
1.Goldeneye
2.From Russia With Love
3.OHMSS
4.You Only Live Twice
5. Tommorrow Never Dies
6. The Spy Who Loved Me
7. The Living Daylights
8. Goldfinger
9. Octopussy
10. Licence To Kill
11. The World is not enough
12. For Your Eyes Only
13. A View To A Kill
14. Dr No
15. Moontaker
16. Thunderball
17. Live and Let Die
18. Die Another Day
19. Diamonds Are Forever
20. The Man With the Golden Gun
1-14 are all excellent. 15-18 are ok. 19 and 20 i can't stand
I'm not Frosty, but believe me, you don't want to hear my full answer for this question...
Cat, I know that you don't like GE (which is why I don't invite you to any of my Brosnan/GE nights
Perhaps I'm wrong Cat, but surely you dislike GE less than DAD or do you hate all Brosnan films the same?
I think Frosty was a bit generous when he gave it the twentieth place. I usually rank it around 30th... Regarding the Brosnan Bonds, you're right in the assumption that they take the last four spots on a virtual list. I don't think I ever posted a full list, because I can't rank the others, but for you, I'll rank the bottom of the barrel.
TND: Entertaining first half, awful second. Great music, plus Elliot Carver - the only thing I remember from the era with fondness.
TWINE: Consistantly mediocre and boring, and even the the music is below my favourite Arnolds, so it goes behind TND. Plus it has no Elliot Carver.
DAD: Bad in every possible way... but good music!
GE: Bad in every possible way... and the music is even worse than that. Couldn't find redeeming features in the past ten years, doubt I'd find any later.
So that's basically the short answer.
On my list, GE is ranked 7th, TWINE is ranked 12th, TND is ranked 13th and DAD is ranked 18th.
In regards to your comments-
TND:I too enjoyed the first half more than the second. I felt that the film went downhill as soon as it became clear that Yeoh was intended to be Bond's equal. Carver, IMO, wasn't anything special. Among Brosnan villains, I had preferred Alex in GE. That's not to say, that I disliked Carver. It's just that among the mega-rich megamaniacs, Bond had done better. I felt that TND had some really good moments (Dr.Kaufman, the car, the translator) but the film never really ascended. It's a fun film, but to me, it'll always be a midle-of-the-order Bond.
TWINE:I will have to strongly disagree with you about TWINE. For me, it remains one of the most fascinating Bonds of all time, for two reasons. What it is and what it could have been. TWINE, IMO, had the potential to be one of the absolute greatest Bond films of all time, one that could rival the first 4 as absolute classics. Unfortunity, it din't happen. The script was flawed and so it was prevented IMO from attaining true greatness. As it is, it is IMO a fantastic film that features Brosnan's best performance since GE and is a fascinating film from a psychological point of view. The script, while not perfect, is still fantastic, and it has numerous other things going for it including an amazing PTS and one of the greatest closing lines of all time. It's number 12th on my list, but that says more about the films ahead of it than it does about TWINE. Plus, TWINE for me remains the cut-off point for Bondian Greatness.
The top 12 films on my list, inc TWINE, are IMO great while the other 8 films are not.
DAD:Terrible, terrible, terrible, terible etc... It really disappointed me but like all Bond films I can find at least one good thing about it. For me it was Brosnan's perfrormance.
As well as the duel. DAD is one of only three Bond films (the others being AVTAK and TLD) which I would describe as terrible.
GE:I won't say much except that I consider it to be a true Bondian masterpiece. I absolutely loved it. Is it flawed? Of course, there is far too much psycho-analysing in that film to last me a lifetime, but I'm willing to forgive it as GE is a film that I can rewatch numerous times and marvel at just what an amazing Bond Brosnan was. I consider GE to be the best Bond film since TSWLM.
I guess, Cat, it all comes down to the actor. You dislike Brosnan which is probably why you ranked his films in your bottom 4, while I love Brosnan which is a big reason why I ranked 3 of his films so highly. Simialrly, my feelings towards Dalton reflect his position on my list.
This is my top 20:
1)GOLDFINGER
2)FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE
3)THUNDERBALL
4)DR. NO
5)YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE
6)THE SPY WHO LOVED ME
7)GOLDENEYE
8)FOR YOUR EYES ONLY
9)ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE
10)LIVE AND LET DIE
11)DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER
12)THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH
13)TOMORROW NEVER DIES
14)THE MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN
15)OCTOPUSSY
16)MOONRAKER
17)LICENCE TO KIL
18)DIE ANOTHER DAY
19)THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS
20)A VIEW TO A KILL
(Numbers 1-12 are great, 13-17 are middle-of-the-road, 18-20 are terrible.)
I think it is the other way around - I dislike Brosnan because of his films. Or so does the chicken and the egg told me.
A director whom you acknowledge is brilliant was hired (perhaps Tarantino) as well as a screen-writer, composer, cinematographer and leading lady whom you all adore. The best fight co-ordinator is hired and the studio has made it known that in this case art must take a precedence over box office. It is the Bond film of you dreams. You have no complaints until the leading man is chosen. Here's the $million question, if Brosnan was hired, would your dreams be shattered or would you not care as it will most certainly be a great film anyway. If you don't care then it's the films, but if you do care, then it's the actor.
(Personally, if it was Dalton I would care, for when it comes to Dalton, I have a problem with the actor first and films second.
2. The Living Daylights ?:)
3. Licence To Kill ?:)
4. For Your Eyes Only
5. The Man With the Golden Gun
6. Diamonds Are Forever
7. The Spy Who Loved Me
8. Octopussy
9. Die Another Day
10. Goldfinger
11. Live and Let Die
12. The World is not enough
13. A View To A Kill
14. Moonraker
15. Tommorrow Never Dies
16. Thunderball
17.You Only Live Twice
18.??
19.??
20.From Russia With Love
(1 to 3,THE BEST!!) (4 to 7, Good!) (8 to 14, okay) (15 to 17, so so) (18&19,??) (20, NOOO! anything but, that!)
unseen 007 Films:
. Dr No
. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
1)Goldfinger
2)From Russia With Love
3)You Only Live Twice
4)On Her Majesty's Secret Service
5)Live and Let Die
6)The Living Daylights
7)Dr No
8)Goldeneye
9)The Spy Who Loved Me
10)Thunderball
11)The Man With the Golden Gun
12)For Your Eyes Only
13)A View To a Kill
14)The World is Not Enough
15)Licence To Kill
16)Die Another Day
17)Diamonds Are Forever
18)Tomorrow Never Dies
19)Moonraker
20)Octopussy
I don't hate any of them. I will watch pretty much any Bond Movie....It just depends on what mood I'm in. I like them all but 1-10 are my absolute favorites.
Here's my list (pretty old-fashioned tastes)
The greats:
1. From Russia with Love (Classics)
2. The Spy Who Loved Me
3. The Living Daylights (Return to basics)
4. Tomorrow Never Dies
5. For Your Eyes Only
Good ones but flawed:
6. The World is Not Enough (Ruined by Richards)
7. Goldfinger (Best villain, but...)
8. Thunderball
9. License to Kill
10. You Only Live Twice
11. On Her Majesty’s Secret Service
12. Dr. No
13. Goldeneye
Below Average:
14. Die Another Day
15. Diamonds Are Forever
16. A View to a Kill
Failures:
17. The Man With the Golden Gun
18. Moonraker
19. Octopussy
20. Live and Let Die
My top 20 is slightly different to yours as you can see from one of my posts on this same page. GF is number 1 on my list, which brings me to my question.
But what? I promise I'll try not to be too offended by your answer!
1. For Your Eyes Only
2. The Spy Who Loved Me
3. Octopussy
4. The Living Daylights
5. Tomorrow Never Dies
6. Goldeneye
7. A View To A Kill
8. Moonraker
9. The Man With The Golden Gun
10. Thunderball
11. From Russia With Love
12. On Her Majesty's Secret Service
13. Goldfinger
14. Diamonds Are Forever
15. Licens To Kill
16. The World Is Not Enough
17. Dr. No
18. Live And Let Die
19. You Only Live Twice
20. Die Another Day
As for your Goldfinger question: it's easily answered: as far as Bond-cliches go, it wins so many prizes (best villain; best memorable villain line; great henchman; great song; love the golf-game; love the Bond--henchman showdown), but I find it weak where it comes to resolution, which depends so much on a Pussy Galore change of heart.
I'm also not crazy (in general) about big army-invasions at the end.
Having said all that, I admit that Godlfinger is the most imitated and most trend-setting of all the bond-movies, and you could probably divide most of the bond movies into two groups: those that follow the GF pattern and movies that follow the FRWL pattern.
I actually love the Pussy change of heart. Why? Because she changed her heart (and arguably her sexual orientation as well) after being with Bond. Only James Bond would be able to do that!
Fair enough. I felt it was terrifically handled but I can see where you're coming from.
You're right that the Bond films can be divided into those two groups: the bigger-budget, more fantastic films like GF and the more realistic, smaller-budget films like FRWL. But as someone who has GF and FRWL at number 1 and 2 on my list respectively, I have no problem with a film following either GF or FRWL, as long as it's of good quality. (I would make a comment about the Dalton films, but I'll leave that until we get to know each better.
GF: Auric Goldfinger, a prominent gold industrialist tries to corner the gold market with a nuclear blast in Fort Knox, his competition.
AVTAK: Max Zorin, a prominent computer industrialist tries to corner the microchip market with an earthquake and flooding Silicon Valley, his competition.
TWINE: Elektra King, a prominent oil industrialist tries to corner the oil market with a NUCLEAR BLAST in Istanbul to cut off the other oil pipelines in Russia, her competition.
Am I the only one who noticed that? Plus, the plot has gone across 3 Bonds!
NOTE: THIS COMMENT WAS NOT SPONSORED BY THE NSA NOR INTENDED TO CREATE A NEW AVTAK ARGUMENT AND IF IT HAPPENS I DIDN'T START IT.
This is what Good ol'Wikipedia has to say:
In Goldfinger, the villain's scheme is to irradiate the entire US gold reserve, making it worthless, causing financial meltdown in the West plus Auric Goldfinger's personal gold stocks will increase in value tenfold; correspondingly in A View To A Kill, Max Zorin intends to destroy Silicon Valley by triggering a massive earthquake, thus leaving his company with a monopoly on the microchip market (also similar to the plot of the 1978 film Superman: The Movie).
As in Goldfinger, one of the business partners in the scam gets cold feet and would rather take the money and run. While Mr. Solo was assassinated by Oddjob and his body disposed of in a car crusher, in A View To A Kill, the dissenter in the ranks is dropped from Zorin's airship and into San Francisco Bay.
Both Zorin and Goldfinger are being bankrolled by the Communists: in the former case, Zorin is an ex-KGB agent, while the atom bomb intended to destroy Fort Knox is supplied by the Chinese.
Arkov. He seems to get nervous of the scheme after the parahawks are destroyed and that people will start asking questions and it will get to hot for him. Then he was ELIMINATED.
Zorin wasn't bankrolled by the Commies though, he WAS when he worked with the KGB but then he LEFT. And Gogol was really ****ed off and whatnot so I doubt he was bankrolled then and then Gogol's line.
M: I thought the Russians would celebrate is Silicon Valley had been destroyed!
Gogol: On the contrary, Admiral, where would Russian research be WITHOUT it?
So Gogol needed Silicon Valley and the Commies weren't bankrolling Zorin. They bankrolled Goldfinger but not Zorin and not Elektra who share similar plots.