Agent Wade, I want to congratulate you for having such a perceptive wife. Her intuition saved you from being consumed by one of these pods on the board. And maybe that's it; W.B. had the ushers in theatres place pods by the seats because they knew this flick would be a snoozer! There's really no other excuse as to why they'd like this film.
Glad you saw the light. {[]
Somewhere, the real W.G. & Tony DP are nothing more than dust particles dispsersed in the air...
Thank you for the kudo. I am so glad I only paid matinee price. I was so upset after this tawdry trainwreck that I prevented the viewership of it to absolutely everyone I could think of. My sister unfortunately I did not reach in time and she too regretted having seen it. Fortunately my Superman-giddy father didn't see it. I'd never hear the end of it if he did. He HATES sitting through something bad that he had high hopes for.
I finally got a chance to see this film last weekend! Wow, was it ever unimpressive. I honestly can't even recall Superman doing anything particularly 'super' in it. I have to ask myself "What was Bryan Singer thinking?" Did he honestly think that this was a worthwhile chapter to add to the Superman cinema franchise? He did a great job bringing the X-Men to the silver screen, but that had already been accomplished with Superman, so why did he feel he needed to tackle the Man of Steel? This movie just languished from the very start. I would have been happier to see the film not try to associate itself from the original films and just do something completely new.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I finally got a chance to see this film last weekend! Wow, was it ever unimpressive. I honestly can't even recall Superman doing anything particularly 'super' in it. I have to ask myself "What was Bryan Singer thinking?" Did he honestly think that this was a worthwhile chapter to add to the Superman cinema franchise? He did a great job bringing the X-Men to the silver screen, but that had already been accomplished with Superman, so why did he feel he needed to tackle the Man of Steel? This movie just languished from the very start. I would have been happier to see the film not try to associate itself from the original films and just do something completely new.
I really feel you pain on this, darenhat. This project was just too big for Singer to tackle.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Looks like Bryan Singer is at the San Diego Comic Con and told a panel of fans that he intends to direct the sequel to Superman Returns for a 2009 release. No plot was given, but he says he plans to go "Wrath of Khan" on it (a reference to the second Star Trek movie as Singer is a noted Trekkie).
Looks like Bryan Singer is at the San Diego Comic Con and told a panel of fans that he intends to direct the sequel to Superman Returns for a 2009 release. No plot was given, but he says he plans to go "Wrath of Khan" on it (a reference to the second Star Trek movie as Singer is a noted Trekkie).
From listening and watching his body language from this footage, that's what HE wants to do. Warner hasn't greenlit anything yet. Listening closely to his words, he has yet to sit down with studio heavies to come to some sort of accord. He looked very unsettled and tense in that clip.
If Warner Bros. is smart, they'll keep him away from this and start new.
Since he's a noted Trekkie why doesn't he go and tear the fabric up on that 40 year old jem by making Spock bipolar or Kirk taking Viagra before alien love scenes or something. Leave comic books alone altogether...
*cross sign* Damn you, Singer for muddling a comic icon I grew up reading & admiring. X-(
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
From listening and watching his body language from this footage, that's what HE wants to do. Warner hasn't greenlit anything yet. Listening closely to his words, he has yet to sit down with studio heavies to come to some sort of accord. He looked very unsettled and tense in that clip.
I haven't actually watched the clip (just read the summary) but I'm sure he's as surprised as anybody that Superman didn't do as well as had been hoped. He'll probably never admit it publicly but I wonder if he now regrets bringing the kid into the story.
If Warner Bros. is smart, they'll keep him away from this and start new.
I say give it back to Brett Rattner (who was associated with it at one time). He made the most entertaining X-Men movie under very difficult circumstances. Mind you I'm no fan of the books but I did enjoy X3 as a popcorn summer flick.
Since he's a noted Trekkie why doesn't he go and tear the fabric up on that 40 year old jem by making Spock bipolar or Kirk taking Viagra before alien love scenes or something. Leave comic books alone altogether...
Too late for that; JJ Abrams has signed on to to the next Trek movie. Supposedly it will center on the first meeting of Kirk and Spock. No ritalin or viagra has been announced yet but as a lifelong Trek fan (I actually learned to speak English watching the old shows) I am understandably uneasy about another prequel.
*cross sign* Damn you, Singer for muddling a comic icon I grew up reading & admiring. X-(
Note to self: If I ever meet RogueAgent, must never discuss Superman Returns or Bryan Singer.
From listening and watching his body language from this footage, that's what HE wants to do. Warner hasn't greenlit anything yet. Listening closely to his words, he has yet to sit down with studio heavies to come to some sort of accord. He looked very unsettled and tense in that clip.
I haven't actually watched the clip (just read the summary) but I'm sure he's as surprised as anybody that Superman didn't do as well as had been hoped. He'll probably never admit it publicly but I wonder if he now regrets bringing the kid into the story.
If Warner Bros. is smart, they'll keep him away from this and start new.
I say give it back to Brett Rattner (who was associated with it at one time). He made the most entertaining X-Men movie under very difficult circumstances. Mind you I'm no fan of the books but I did enjoy X3 as a popcorn summer flick.
Since he's a noted Trekkie why doesn't he go and tear the fabric up on that 40 year old jem by making Spock bipolar or Kirk taking Viagra before alien love scenes or something. Leave comic books alone altogether...
Too late for that; JJ Abrams has signed on to to the next Trek movie. Supposedly it will center on the first meeting of Kirk and Spock. No ritalin or viagra has been announced yet but as a lifelong Trek fan (I actually learned to speak English watching the old shows) I am understandably uneasy about another prequel.
*cross sign* Damn you, Singer for muddling a comic icon I grew up reading & admiring. X-(
Note to self: If I ever meet RogueAgent, must never discuss Superman Returns or Bryan Singer.
Singer needs better screenwriters.Get David Goyer or Paul Dini or Bilson & DiMeo.The guys who wrote SR grew up with the Donner films as their only points of reference(as did Singer).That's all they know.That's not good--because there's so much more that can be done with Superman.It all starts with the writing--the directors can and do try to claim as much credit as possible,but if they don't have a solid story with a good screenplay then no matter what they do,they're lost.The next Superman movie should be a BIG adventure story-something befitting Superman.Something with plenty of action and with Superman as the star,not a supporting player.And please--no General Zod.Or Luthor,for that matter.Steal from Flash's rogue's gallery if necessary but don't just repeat everything that's come before.Michael Bay would be a better director for Superman.
It'll be nothing as in-depth as your analysis of the movie, but I had just gone to see it. It had an average story but the actors lacked the personality to have me rooting for them (I must admit, Spacey's Luthor and Parker Posey really brightened up the otherwise dull movie). Kate Bosworth and Brandon Routh are boring and Richard (the husband guy) failed to impress me and he cheated death SO many times I just felt like saying "DIE ALREADY!". This movie is almost 3 hours long! It also had too many climactic ending points but it kept going... and going.... and going... and gooooooooooooing.
10 Problems w/ Superman Returns:
1. Too long
2. Unsympathetic characters
3. Heroes = Boring, Villains = Good
4. TOO LONG
5. It ripped off Moonraker
6. The part w/ the plane reminded me of GoldenEye (more ripping off)
7. MUCH TOO LONG
8. When I saw the kid w/ the inhaler I said "He'll save the day" as that is predictably what happens w/ frail children in movies.
9. If it's ever on TV, you can cut out the last 30-45 minutes.
10. It failed to create dramatic tension
Not sure if this warrants it's own thread so I thought I'd post it here. WB Home Video has announced a release date for Richard Donner's alternate version of Superman II. Here's a link with more info on the DVD and what to expect:
The article also mentions that there will be no Superman Returns sequel unless the movie cracks $200 million domestically. As of today, July 23, 2006, the box office stands at around $178 million.
That's interesting, I didn't know such another film existed.
I did think they messed up the second film a bit though, by having Clark reveal his true self to Lois and renouncing his powers - it sort of peaks too early. After that, there's nowhere to take it in the relationship, like when Bruce and Cybill sleep together in Moonlighting, the tension is all gone.
And a pivotal problem with Superman is this: who does he get to fight?
Other films like Batman and Spiderman have him taking on other assorted nutters who are earthlings messed up by an experiment or some kind of trauma. As Bill points out in Volume 2, Superman is not of this earth, he's not pretending to be a hero, he really is. But with that in mind, he's way over a match for any earthling being, so after the surprise of the first film, he looks like a bit of a bully.
And as he has no dark side, but is purely virtuous, he sort of has to rescue everybody, or they get ratty. No one expects that of twisted types like Spidey and Batman.
So that leaves threats to outerspace, but that loses something too, as the earthlings look like ants or bit players as the main drama is fought out by others. It can look redundant having two superheroes battle each other, they sort of cancel each other out.
A couple of friends of mine saw Returns and found it quite boring and overlong, and that not a lot happenend in a very long time. And that he just did these random rescues of people that had no bearing on the overall plot.
Looks like Bryan Singer is at the San Diego Comic Con and told a panel of fans that he intends to direct the sequel to Superman Returns for a 2009 release. No plot was given, but he says he plans to go "Wrath of Khan" on it (a reference to the second Star Trek movie as Singer is a noted Trekkie). http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=37207
He already had his Wrath of Khan ending. It's called X2! I'm starting to like this guy less and less. First he abandons a great franchise to go to work on a real turkey, and now he wants to make the turkey actually start to fly? Give it up, man. Superman is over! He died in the '80s. Let him rest in peace. His resurrection sucked total schwantz.
Looks like Bryan Singer is at the San Diego Comic Con and told a panel of fans that he intends to direct the sequel to Superman Returns for a 2009 release. No plot was given, but he says he plans to go "Wrath of Khan" on it (a reference to the second Star Trek movie as Singer is a noted Trekkie). http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=37207
He already had his Wrath of Khan ending. It's called X2! I'm starting to like this guy less and less. First he abandons a great franchise to go to work on a real turkey, and now he wants to make the turkey actually start to fly? Give it up, man. Superman is over! He died in the '80s. Let him rest in peace. His resurrection sucked total schwantz.
The thing that really annoyed me about Singer's little press conference at ComicCon was how he tried to justify Superman Returns as a necessary step to "reintroduce" the character before they could cut loose with him in a sequel. Hello?? If there's one character in the world that everybody knows and who needs no introduction, it's Superman. That "S" shield has become an iconic symbol recognized around the world, and that was a very lame and unconvincing justification for the movie he presented. It would have been better to admit that the wrinkles he introduced into the mythos were not well received and were a bad idea after all.
I still believe that you can make a successful, kick-ass Superman movie, but you have to pit him against somebody who is a physical match for him. You can still have Luthor in a supporting role but Superman needs to roll up his sleeves (figuratively) and get physical. And drop the romance with Lois; I find most people really don't care for that angle at all. Let him care about her, let him rescue her, but enough with the lovey dovey already.
I also think a Batman / Superman crossover movie might do well since neither franchise really lit the box office on fire. Batman Begins did a respectable but hardly overwhelming $200 million domestically. I enjoyed the movie but I'll be very curious to see if Bats can maintain his audience with his next go-round.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Singer's not stupid enough to claim accountability on this debacle. He wants to at least give the bigwigs the impression that he is certain where he wants the franchise to go so that the WB bosses can ok a follow-up. He said the word "iffy" which I translate to meaning that WB doesn't have the upmost faith in him right about now.
I was told by a few friends that went to ComicCon, that there were quite a few jeers when he was introduced. They also found it odd that the questions he was asked were so non-challenging... 8-)
There's a reason why a film of this magnitude is sinking in the box office ranks like a stone...it's not very good. This is one time I wish that I could be "half monk/ half hitman". )
I want another Superman movie...just axe this guy and his OXYGEN Channel subtext so that we can get this project back on track.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Interesting about perception eh? BB is a huge fan favorite and success and SR is dying at the box office because either Superman is too square or Singer's vision is too blech.
Batman Begins:
U.S.: $205,344
+ Foreign: $166,510
= Worldwide: $371,854
Still with Germany, France, Japan, Russia, Switzerland etc to go. Superman will probably end with $5-10m less than Batman in the U.S. and with a larger worldwide total. What's really hurt Superman is the bloated budget courtesy of all the stops and starts on the project. Any sequal, no matter it's director shouldn't have that problem.
I like the romance between Superman and Lois (always have). I think it's what keeps Superman human and not just some god like perfect alien. More Clark Kent keeps him human and accessible as well, and I think Superman Returns didn't have nearly enough Clark. I just don't think the romance worked that well here (unlike in the Superman I & II) because of a miscast Lois (too young, too somber) and all the attendant baggage. But it worked much better than that abomination between Batman and Katie Holmes. Luckily for Batman her character is completely expendable and won't be returning.
Good points MBE. And, if you look at the weekend boxoffice results for BB and SR on boxofficemojo.com, you'll see that at the 4 week mark, SR actually earned more money domestically than BB ($178,342,711 to $171,901,777). Also, inflation shouldn't be much of a factor since we're comparing 2005 to 2006.
As you said, SR's bloated budget is the real issue here. Had the film been made for something closer to BB's budget of $130 million, everything would be looking much rosier from a box office perspective.
Perception really is everything. One can only hope the trained monkeys at the WB have a sufficient command of mathematics to reach the same conclusion.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I thought that this was an interesting thing for Singer to say:
Hey Rogue, I was assaulted by a never ending stream of popups when I tried that site. Care to give us a brief summary?
No problem, Tony. Sorry it happened.
Here's the article:
Singer Blames Marketing for Superman's B.O.
The Man of Steel's much-ballyhooed return to the big screen would've made more money if the marketing had been done right, the director claims.
Superman Returns director Brian Singer blames Warner Bros. marketing for mishandling his film and dampening its domestic box office return. Although the film is doing very well internationally and should do well in DVD sales, it fell off the top 10 in this, its fifth week of release and will likely fall short of grossing $200 million.
Newsarama interviewed Singer at the recent San Diego Comic-Con and asked the tough questions:
"In my personal estimation I felt it was an issue with the marketing," Singer said. "You've got a dense summer and you're resurrecting a character. There's a different kind of approach you've got to take when you bring in something new. Even though he's Superman and the character is ubiquitous, a Superman movie is a very new thing and it has to be presented in a new way. So a lot of that burden falls on the kind of presentation it is given."
Regarding the plot being essentially a rehash of Richard Donner's Superman 1978 film: "It takes you on the same journey that the original one did but as an adult which was quite intentional," Singer said. "Right down to him sinking in the water. It is not remaking the first one but I wanted to take the audience on the same kind of journey as the first one but with a mature guy who's going through a dilemma that wasn't in the first one. It's in the marketing. I don't know how to specifically qualify but it has to be understood how to present something that hasn't been around for a while. The last Superman, Superman IV, in its American release made 15 million dollars. It is still something new and it has to be launched on the flip side of the other movies of its ilk."
And then Newsarama asked a question that has bugged continuity fans:
NRAMA: After he gave up his powers in Superman II, Lois and Superman slept together. I'm going to assume that that's when he got her pregnant…
BS: Possibly.
NRAMA: Then he gives her the kiss, which made her forget that they even slept together. Was the pregnancy a mystery for her?
BS: I ignored that part. I just assumed she remembered sleeping with him.
Bob Gough
7/31/2006
Source: Newsarama
I hope that this helps.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
He thinks its perfectly ok to release what is in many respects a remake of the 1978 movie, alters the mythos in a very fundamental way and then blames the PR department for not handling it properly. I really wish somebody had asked him about the child subplot; I'm sure his answer would have been a doozy.
For what its worth, I do think that part of the problem is that Superman (and even Batman to a certain degree) simply aren't as hip as some other properties these days. They've been around so long and have had so many iterations that maybe people do take them somewhat for granted. Batman Begins didn't perform nearly as strongly as War of the Worlds and a few other movies last summer and Superman clearly was no match for Pirates of the Caribbean or even X-Men 3. As has been mentioned before, I think their box office take will end up being pretty close to one another in the long run.
Still, Singer's answers only tell me that he's either woefully out of touch with mainstream audience or he's one arrogant SOB. Either way, he isn't helping the franchise (or his standing with WB) by copping that attitude.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited August 2006
The way I read it, Singer has taken a stab at Warner Bros. themselves. You'd have had to be in a coma not to have seen advertisements of this picture everywhere. It had ample time to spread the word and many were aware of when it was debuting...
Singer has passed the bill to his employers on this and it's just wrong. This film was an anemic attempt right out of the gates and word of mouth spread like a brushfire hindering whatever potential blockbuster this might've been. Clearly Singer is full of himself and if this is a desperation move on his part, the higher ups may not be too pleased with these accusations when it comes to handing him the keys to the Maserati again. IMO he's already wrecked it once and he might get more respect from me and others if he just owned up to dropping the ball on this.
You'd have to be a total moron not to think that the WB executives aren't upset with his statements in that article. You can't say things like that on a regular nine to five and not think that there will not be repercussions...
On the other hand, Warner has had a crappy year when it comes to bankable cinematic endeavors. Poseiden anyone? Who ok'ed that? Somebody's trophy wife is sure to dump him after getting canned by the studio.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
On the other hand, Warner has had a crappy year when it comes to bankable cinematic endeavors. Poseiden anyone? Who ok'ed that? Somebody's trophy wife is sure to dump him after getting canned by the studio.
) ) Good one. You're right that WB has had a pretty lousy year. Even their TV network is languishing.
As for Bryan Singer, for him to have said those things about WB's PR effort, that suggests to me that he's already on his way out. Bring in Brett Rattner I say.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Jude set to be action bad guy
08/08/06
JUDE Law is in talks to appear in the Superman Returns sequel as the Man of Steel’s arch enemy General Zod. The role was made famous by Terence Stamp opposite Christopher Reeve in Superman 2 in 1980.
Law, 33, who resembles the younger Stamp, has so far resisted appearing in big screen action franchises but is a comic book fan.
A Warner Brothers source says: "Zod is going to be the main bad guy in the second film. Some say they should use an unknown but the director Bryan Singer is looking at Jude. The similarities between him and Stamp are clear."
Law turned down an offer to fill Superman’s Lycra catsuit two years ago, admitting: "My greatest fear is that a role like that would define me. Do I want to be known from here on in as Superman?
"I’d feel the same way about being James Bond. They are iconic characters and there is also pressure in stepping into someone else’s tights."
Brandon Routh will again don the cape and Y-fronts as Superman, with Kevin Spacey returning as Lex Luther.
Another something that we've already seen again... 8-)
I hope that this isn't coming to fruition...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Were there any black people on Krypton....? Hmmm...
No, no, not again. I don't want Law mucking up the love I had for Stamp's rendition. I mean he left an indelible mark on my mind that I'd appreciate to be left unfettered.
And haven't we been down this road before? When is WB going to wake up and use some of the talented comic writers they have in their arsenal in the DC Comics department? Hire Grant Morrison or Paul Dini to write the ultimate Superman script and fire the cronies Singer brought over with him. They just suck.
They need to STOP REHASHING MATERIAL. Bring on Braniac or Darkseid already...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I officially became the last person in the world to see Superman Returns last night. I thought the film was good with some reservations. What I liked was;
Brandon Routh. Perfect. I completely accepted him as Superman.
The scenes on the Kent farm. I wanted more stuff like this.
CGI, Superman action scenes were incredible although there weren't enough of them.
Some striking images that warm the heart of any Superman fan. Example: Superman high above the clouds to replenish his solar energy.
Minor Problems;
The super-powered kid. Does anyone think this was a great idea?
Kate Bosworth. I think Lois Lane is supposed to be a bit sharper and funny. Bosworth came across as a teenage yuppie.
Kevin Spacey. He was alright but a bit one-note. I did miss Gene Hackman slightly.
The story. Wasn't great but hopefully in the next film Singer will do what he did with X2.
Bring on General Zod in the next one and then Doomsday. And someone remake Supergirl and include a cameo from Helen Slater.
I'm not too convinced about the Jude Law as Zod story. That rumor has been floating around for years. Also, any casting news at this point has to be taken with a big grain of salt in light of the movie's relatively disappointing performance in America and Bryan Singer's inflammatory comments towards WB's PR department. I'm sure all parties involved are second-guessing where the franchise should go next.
I'd prefer the filmmakers went a different route with the next one. They already remade the original movie; they should know better than to remake Superman II. Go outside Superman's rogue gallery if you must to find a worthy villain (cough...Darkseid...cough) but let's not have the same old same old.
Whatever else happens, I hope Routh is brought back as Superman. He was, IMHO, the best thing about the movie and deserves major kudos for stepping into the red boots so successfully. Lois Lane should be re-cast, and junior should be written out of any future movies.
Also, does anybody else think it might be a good idea to have Routh make a cameo as Superman (or even as Clark Kent) in the next Batman movie? Besides being uber-cool to see, it might keep him and the character in the public's eye until the inevitable sequel does show up.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I'm not too convinced about the Jude Law as Zod story. That rumor has been floating around for years. Also, any casting news at this point has to be taken with a big grain of salt in light of the movie's relatively disappointing performance in America and Bryan Singer's inflammatory comments towards WB's PR department. I'm sure all parties involved are second-guessing where the franchise should go next.
:x
I'd prefer the filmmakers went a different route with the next one. They already remade the original movie; they should know better than to remake Superman II. Go outside Superman's rogue gallery if you must to find a worthy villain (cough...Darkseid...cough) but let's not have the same old same old.
:x
Whatever else happens, I hope Routh is brought back as Superman. He was, IMHO, the best thing about the movie and deserves major kudos for stepping into the red boots so successfully. Lois Lane should be re-cast, and junior should be written out of any future movies.
:x :x :x Kudos for axeing the kid.
Also, does anybody else think it might be a good idea to have Routh make a cameo as Superman (or even as Clark Kent) in the next Batman movie? Besides being uber-cool to see, it might keep him and the character in the public's eye until the inevitable sequel does show up.
Absolutely a great idea. Spoken like a true comic follower.... {[]
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I agree, reusing Zod smacks of more regurgitation of the first 2 films. Besides Jude Law is no Terence Stamp.
I like the idea of a cameo in Batman, and I think a cameo as Clark Kent in reporter guise at some media event with Bruce Wayne would be great. I don't like the idea of Superman showing up though. I also think there should be more a focus on Kent in the next film. It seems to me that they weren't so sure of Routh as an actor in Superman Returns (understandable, since I'd seen him "act" before) so they hedged their bets by reducing his time as Clark and playing up the more visual role of Superman where he had to look the part more than play it. His dialogue was pretty sparse for the central character. While he's not nearly as good an actor as Reeve I do think Routh showed he could handle a bit more than what he was given in Superman Returns.
Maira Oliveira - All Headline News Reporter
Hollywood, CA (BANG) - "Alfie" actor, Jude Law, is currently in talks to appear in the "Superman Returns" sequel as Superman's arch enemy.
He is set to play the Man of Steel's most hated foe General Zod, which was made famous by Terence Stamp, who played the character in the 1980 movie "Superman 2."
Producers say they see a resemblance between Stamp and Law.
A source told Britain's Daily Express newspaper, "Zod is going to be
the main bad guy in the second film. Some say they should use an unknown
but the director Bryan Singer is looking at Jude. The similarities between him
and Stamp are clear."
The 33-year-old has so far steered clear of superhero movies, fearing
they would typecast him and ruin his chances of starring in other film
genres.
Just two years ago Law turned down the role of Superman.
He said at the time, "My greatest fear is that a role like that would
define me. Do I want to be known from here on in as Superman? I'd feel the
same way about James Bond. They are iconic characters and there is also pressure
in stepping into someone else's tights."
The "Superman Returns" sequel will see Brandon Routh return as the Man
of Steel and Kevin Spacey will reprise his role as Lex Luther.
Pay attention to the last sentence in this article... to quote Batman Begins' Ducard:
" So familiar! Haven't you got anything new?!"
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Comments
Thank you for the kudo. I am so glad I only paid matinee price. I was so upset after this tawdry trainwreck that I prevented the viewership of it to absolutely everyone I could think of. My sister unfortunately I did not reach in time and she too regretted having seen it. Fortunately my Superman-giddy father didn't see it. I'd never hear the end of it if he did. He HATES sitting through something bad that he had high hopes for.
I really feel you pain on this, darenhat. This project was just too big for Singer to tackle.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=37207
Thanks for the link, Tony.
From listening and watching his body language from this footage, that's what HE wants to do. Warner hasn't greenlit anything yet. Listening closely to his words, he has yet to sit down with studio heavies to come to some sort of accord. He looked very unsettled and tense in that clip.
If Warner Bros. is smart, they'll keep him away from this and start new.
Since he's a noted Trekkie why doesn't he go and tear the fabric up on that 40 year old jem by making Spock bipolar or Kirk taking Viagra before alien love scenes or something. Leave comic books alone altogether...
*cross sign* Damn you, Singer for muddling a comic icon I grew up reading & admiring. X-(
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I haven't actually watched the clip (just read the summary) but I'm sure he's as surprised as anybody that Superman didn't do as well as had been hoped. He'll probably never admit it publicly but I wonder if he now regrets bringing the kid into the story.
I say give it back to Brett Rattner (who was associated with it at one time). He made the most entertaining X-Men movie under very difficult circumstances. Mind you I'm no fan of the books but I did enjoy X3 as a popcorn summer flick.
Too late for that; JJ Abrams has signed on to to the next Trek movie. Supposedly it will center on the first meeting of Kirk and Spock. No ritalin or viagra has been announced yet but as a lifelong Trek fan (I actually learned to speak English watching the old shows) I am understandably uneasy about another prequel.
Note to self: If I ever meet RogueAgent, must never discuss Superman Returns or Bryan Singer.
Singer needs better screenwriters.Get David Goyer or Paul Dini or Bilson & DiMeo.The guys who wrote SR grew up with the Donner films as their only points of reference(as did Singer).That's all they know.That's not good--because there's so much more that can be done with Superman.It all starts with the writing--the directors can and do try to claim as much credit as possible,but if they don't have a solid story with a good screenplay then no matter what they do,they're lost.The next Superman movie should be a BIG adventure story-something befitting Superman.Something with plenty of action and with Superman as the star,not a supporting player.And please--no General Zod.Or Luthor,for that matter.Steal from Flash's rogue's gallery if necessary but don't just repeat everything that's come before.Michael Bay would be a better director for Superman.
10 Problems w/ Superman Returns:
1. Too long
2. Unsympathetic characters
3. Heroes = Boring, Villains = Good
4. TOO LONG
5. It ripped off Moonraker
6. The part w/ the plane reminded me of GoldenEye (more ripping off)
7. MUCH TOO LONG
8. When I saw the kid w/ the inhaler I said "He'll save the day" as that is predictably what happens w/ frail children in movies.
9. If it's ever on TV, you can cut out the last 30-45 minutes.
10. It failed to create dramatic tension
http://news.yahoo.com/s/eo/20060722/en_movies_eo/19563
The article also mentions that there will be no Superman Returns sequel unless the movie cracks $200 million domestically. As of today, July 23, 2006, the box office stands at around $178 million.
I did think they messed up the second film a bit though, by having Clark reveal his true self to Lois and renouncing his powers - it sort of peaks too early. After that, there's nowhere to take it in the relationship, like when Bruce and Cybill sleep together in Moonlighting, the tension is all gone.
And a pivotal problem with Superman is this: who does he get to fight?
Other films like Batman and Spiderman have him taking on other assorted nutters who are earthlings messed up by an experiment or some kind of trauma. As Bill points out in Volume 2, Superman is not of this earth, he's not pretending to be a hero, he really is. But with that in mind, he's way over a match for any earthling being, so after the surprise of the first film, he looks like a bit of a bully.
And as he has no dark side, but is purely virtuous, he sort of has to rescue everybody, or they get ratty. No one expects that of twisted types like Spidey and Batman.
So that leaves threats to outerspace, but that loses something too, as the earthlings look like ants or bit players as the main drama is fought out by others. It can look redundant having two superheroes battle each other, they sort of cancel each other out.
A couple of friends of mine saw Returns and found it quite boring and overlong, and that not a lot happenend in a very long time. And that he just did these random rescues of people that had no bearing on the overall plot.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
He already had his Wrath of Khan ending. It's called X2! I'm starting to like this guy less and less. First he abandons a great franchise to go to work on a real turkey, and now he wants to make the turkey actually start to fly? Give it up, man. Superman is over! He died in the '80s. Let him rest in peace. His resurrection sucked total schwantz.
The thing that really annoyed me about Singer's little press conference at ComicCon was how he tried to justify Superman Returns as a necessary step to "reintroduce" the character before they could cut loose with him in a sequel. Hello?? If there's one character in the world that everybody knows and who needs no introduction, it's Superman. That "S" shield has become an iconic symbol recognized around the world, and that was a very lame and unconvincing justification for the movie he presented. It would have been better to admit that the wrinkles he introduced into the mythos were not well received and were a bad idea after all.
I still believe that you can make a successful, kick-ass Superman movie, but you have to pit him against somebody who is a physical match for him. You can still have Luthor in a supporting role but Superman needs to roll up his sleeves (figuratively) and get physical. And drop the romance with Lois; I find most people really don't care for that angle at all. Let him care about her, let him rescue her, but enough with the lovey dovey already.
I also think a Batman / Superman crossover movie might do well since neither franchise really lit the box office on fire. Batman Begins did a respectable but hardly overwhelming $200 million domestically. I enjoyed the movie but I'll be very curious to see if Bats can maintain his audience with his next go-round.
I was told by a few friends that went to ComicCon, that there were quite a few jeers when he was introduced. They also found it odd that the questions he was asked were so non-challenging... 8-)
There's a reason why a film of this magnitude is sinking in the box office ranks like a stone...it's not very good. This is one time I wish that I could be "half monk/ half hitman".
I want another Superman movie...just axe this guy and his OXYGEN Channel subtext so that we can get this project back on track.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Batman Begins:
U.S.: $205,344
+ Foreign: $166,510
= Worldwide: $371,854
Superaman Returns:
U.S.: $179.3
+ Foreign: $110.0
= Worldwide: $289.3
Still with Germany, France, Japan, Russia, Switzerland etc to go. Superman will probably end with $5-10m less than Batman in the U.S. and with a larger worldwide total. What's really hurt Superman is the bloated budget courtesy of all the stops and starts on the project. Any sequal, no matter it's director shouldn't have that problem.
I like the romance between Superman and Lois (always have). I think it's what keeps Superman human and not just some god like perfect alien. More Clark Kent keeps him human and accessible as well, and I think Superman Returns didn't have nearly enough Clark. I just don't think the romance worked that well here (unlike in the Superman I & II) because of a miscast Lois (too young, too somber) and all the attendant baggage. But it worked much better than that abomination between Batman and Katie Holmes. Luckily for Batman her character is completely expendable and won't be returning.
MBE
As you said, SR's bloated budget is the real issue here. Had the film been made for something closer to BB's budget of $130 million, everything would be looking much rosier from a box office perspective.
Perception really is everything. One can only hope the trained monkeys at the WB have a sufficient command of mathematics to reach the same conclusion.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/news/articles/2885.asp
See the word: Accountability. 8-)
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Hey Rogue, I was assaulted by a never ending stream of popups when I tried that site. Care to give us a brief summary?
No problem, Tony. Sorry it happened.
Here's the article:
Singer Blames Marketing for Superman's B.O.
The Man of Steel's much-ballyhooed return to the big screen would've made more money if the marketing had been done right, the director claims.
Superman Returns director Brian Singer blames Warner Bros. marketing for mishandling his film and dampening its domestic box office return. Although the film is doing very well internationally and should do well in DVD sales, it fell off the top 10 in this, its fifth week of release and will likely fall short of grossing $200 million.
Newsarama interviewed Singer at the recent San Diego Comic-Con and asked the tough questions:
"In my personal estimation I felt it was an issue with the marketing," Singer said. "You've got a dense summer and you're resurrecting a character. There's a different kind of approach you've got to take when you bring in something new. Even though he's Superman and the character is ubiquitous, a Superman movie is a very new thing and it has to be presented in a new way. So a lot of that burden falls on the kind of presentation it is given."
Regarding the plot being essentially a rehash of Richard Donner's Superman 1978 film: "It takes you on the same journey that the original one did but as an adult which was quite intentional," Singer said. "Right down to him sinking in the water. It is not remaking the first one but I wanted to take the audience on the same kind of journey as the first one but with a mature guy who's going through a dilemma that wasn't in the first one. It's in the marketing. I don't know how to specifically qualify but it has to be understood how to present something that hasn't been around for a while. The last Superman, Superman IV, in its American release made 15 million dollars. It is still something new and it has to be launched on the flip side of the other movies of its ilk."
And then Newsarama asked a question that has bugged continuity fans:
NRAMA: After he gave up his powers in Superman II, Lois and Superman slept together. I'm going to assume that that's when he got her pregnant…
BS: Possibly.
NRAMA: Then he gives her the kiss, which made her forget that they even slept together. Was the pregnancy a mystery for her?
BS: I ignored that part. I just assumed she remembered sleeping with him.
Bob Gough
7/31/2006
Source: Newsarama
I hope that this helps.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
He thinks its perfectly ok to release what is in many respects a remake of the 1978 movie, alters the mythos in a very fundamental way and then blames the PR department for not handling it properly. I really wish somebody had asked him about the child subplot; I'm sure his answer would have been a doozy.
For what its worth, I do think that part of the problem is that Superman (and even Batman to a certain degree) simply aren't as hip as some other properties these days. They've been around so long and have had so many iterations that maybe people do take them somewhat for granted. Batman Begins didn't perform nearly as strongly as War of the Worlds and a few other movies last summer and Superman clearly was no match for Pirates of the Caribbean or even X-Men 3. As has been mentioned before, I think their box office take will end up being pretty close to one another in the long run.
Still, Singer's answers only tell me that he's either woefully out of touch with mainstream audience or he's one arrogant SOB. Either way, he isn't helping the franchise (or his standing with WB) by copping that attitude.
Singer has passed the bill to his employers on this and it's just wrong. This film was an anemic attempt right out of the gates and word of mouth spread like a brushfire hindering whatever potential blockbuster this might've been. Clearly Singer is full of himself and if this is a desperation move on his part, the higher ups may not be too pleased with these accusations when it comes to handing him the keys to the Maserati again. IMO he's already wrecked it once and he might get more respect from me and others if he just owned up to dropping the ball on this.
You'd have to be a total moron not to think that the WB executives aren't upset with his statements in that article. You can't say things like that on a regular nine to five and not think that there will not be repercussions...
On the other hand, Warner has had a crappy year when it comes to bankable cinematic endeavors. Poseiden anyone? Who ok'ed that? Somebody's trophy wife is sure to dump him after getting canned by the studio.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
As for Bryan Singer, for him to have said those things about WB's PR effort, that suggests to me that he's already on his way out. Bring in Brett Rattner I say.
It looks as if Zod will return:
http://express.lineone.net/news_detail.html?sku=286
Jude set to be action bad guy
08/08/06
JUDE Law is in talks to appear in the Superman Returns sequel as the Man of Steel’s arch enemy General Zod. The role was made famous by Terence Stamp opposite Christopher Reeve in Superman 2 in 1980.
Law, 33, who resembles the younger Stamp, has so far resisted appearing in big screen action franchises but is a comic book fan.
A Warner Brothers source says: "Zod is going to be the main bad guy in the second film. Some say they should use an unknown but the director Bryan Singer is looking at Jude. The similarities between him and Stamp are clear."
Law turned down an offer to fill Superman’s Lycra catsuit two years ago, admitting: "My greatest fear is that a role like that would define me. Do I want to be known from here on in as Superman?
"I’d feel the same way about being James Bond. They are iconic characters and there is also pressure in stepping into someone else’s tights."
Brandon Routh will again don the cape and Y-fronts as Superman, with Kevin Spacey returning as Lex Luther.
Another something that we've already seen again... 8-)
I hope that this isn't coming to fruition...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Zoe Lucker off Footballers' Wives as the babe...
Were there any black people on Krypton....? Hmmm...
Roger Moore 1927-2017
No, no, not again. I don't want Law mucking up the love I had for Stamp's rendition. I mean he left an indelible mark on my mind that I'd appreciate to be left unfettered.
And haven't we been down this road before? When is WB going to wake up and use some of the talented comic writers they have in their arsenal in the DC Comics department? Hire Grant Morrison or Paul Dini to write the ultimate Superman script and fire the cronies Singer brought over with him. They just suck.
They need to STOP REHASHING MATERIAL. Bring on Braniac or Darkseid already...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Brandon Routh. Perfect. I completely accepted him as Superman.
The scenes on the Kent farm. I wanted more stuff like this.
CGI, Superman action scenes were incredible although there weren't enough of them.
Some striking images that warm the heart of any Superman fan. Example: Superman high above the clouds to replenish his solar energy.
Minor Problems;
The super-powered kid. Does anyone think this was a great idea?
Kate Bosworth. I think Lois Lane is supposed to be a bit sharper and funny. Bosworth came across as a teenage yuppie.
Kevin Spacey. He was alright but a bit one-note. I did miss Gene Hackman slightly.
The story. Wasn't great but hopefully in the next film Singer will do what he did with X2.
Bring on General Zod in the next one and then Doomsday. And someone remake Supergirl and include a cameo from Helen Slater.
I was joking about Supergirl...
I'd prefer the filmmakers went a different route with the next one. They already remade the original movie; they should know better than to remake Superman II. Go outside Superman's rogue gallery if you must to find a worthy villain (cough...Darkseid...cough) but let's not have the same old same old.
Whatever else happens, I hope Routh is brought back as Superman. He was, IMHO, the best thing about the movie and deserves major kudos for stepping into the red boots so successfully. Lois Lane should be re-cast, and junior should be written out of any future movies.
Also, does anybody else think it might be a good idea to have Routh make a cameo as Superman (or even as Clark Kent) in the next Batman movie? Besides being uber-cool to see, it might keep him and the character in the public's eye until the inevitable sequel does show up.
:x
:x
:x :x :x Kudos for axeing the kid.
Absolutely a great idea. Spoken like a true comic follower.... {[]
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I like the idea of a cameo in Batman, and I think a cameo as Clark Kent in reporter guise at some media event with Bruce Wayne would be great. I don't like the idea of Superman showing up though. I also think there should be more a focus on Kent in the next film. It seems to me that they weren't so sure of Routh as an actor in Superman Returns (understandable, since I'd seen him "act" before) so they hedged their bets by reducing his time as Clark and playing up the more visual role of Superman where he had to look the part more than play it. His dialogue was pretty sparse for the central character. While he's not nearly as good an actor as Reeve I do think Routh showed he could handle a bit more than what he was given in Superman Returns.
MBE
I am a DC fanboy...and proud of it. {[]
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowbizNews.asp?Code=AR83618A&headline=jude_law_vs_superman
Yeah, it's just a rehash of the previous post but at least it should bring out the WB folks to at least confirm or squash this...
Here's another article:
http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7004468996
Jude Law Set To Play Superman's Arch Enemy
August 8, 2006 8:28 a.m. EST
Maira Oliveira - All Headline News Reporter
Hollywood, CA (BANG) - "Alfie" actor, Jude Law, is currently in talks to appear in the "Superman Returns" sequel as Superman's arch enemy.
He is set to play the Man of Steel's most hated foe General Zod, which was made famous by Terence Stamp, who played the character in the 1980 movie "Superman 2."
Producers say they see a resemblance between Stamp and Law.
A source told Britain's Daily Express newspaper, "Zod is going to be
the main bad guy in the second film. Some say they should use an unknown
but the director Bryan Singer is looking at Jude. The similarities between him
and Stamp are clear."
The 33-year-old has so far steered clear of superhero movies, fearing
they would typecast him and ruin his chances of starring in other film
genres.
Just two years ago Law turned down the role of Superman.
He said at the time, "My greatest fear is that a role like that would
define me. Do I want to be known from here on in as Superman? I'd feel the
same way about James Bond. They are iconic characters and there is also pressure
in stepping into someone else's tights."
The "Superman Returns" sequel will see Brandon Routh return as the Man
of Steel and Kevin Spacey will reprise his role as Lex Luther.
Pay attention to the last sentence in this article... to quote Batman Begins' Ducard:
" So familiar! Haven't you got anything new?!"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -