Superman Returns

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  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    The Cat wrote:
    In the original, I felt that Williams threw away his themes quite easily once they were used and didn't make out the most of them... Now I feel a good-old fashioned, thematic approach to which I'm looking forward too.

    It's true- I tried listening to the original today and once you're past the great themes it's quite a tough listen; muc like most Williams soundtracks. The themes are superb but the actual cues aren't musical pieces in themselves.
    I like what I hear of Ottoman's stuff, but as a friend pointed out to me, it's a little disappointing in places- his treatment of the love theme in the last track for instance: somehow he makes it sound so ordinary.

    Well, don't imagine what it's like to get Rhino's double CD. :D I just co-wrote a review of the original... needless to say, I had to jump in because the original author couldn't write more than 2 paragraphs. We finally gave it 8 stars, but the review is a bit like they are pulling out our teeth. I mean we had to justify the points, even though the two of us couldn't listen to the double CD once... Bit blasphemous I know, but we did our best. After that, we read some English reviews, and were stunned what people said there, from "greatest Williams score ever" to "incredibly complex" when the best thin I can say about the actual cues (NOT the ingenious themes, mind you) that they "are nice" and "fit the scenes." Of course we couldn't miss taking a few cheap shots at the contractual obligation known as "Can You Read My Mind" - it's like a frikkin' dartsboard. :))
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,934MI6 Agent
    The Cat wrote:
    the best thin I can say about the actual cues (NOT the ingenious themes, mind you) that they "are nice" and "fit the scenes."

    Yes indeed- not really something you can listen to on its own like the Bond soundtracks.
    The Cat wrote:
    Of course we couldn't miss taking a few cheap shots at the contractual obligation known as "Can You Read My Mind" - it's like a frikkin' dartsboard. :))

    Don't give in! It's too easy! :D I love that track for its pure cheesiness: in fact I didn't realise she was supposed to be 'singing' in the film- I had no idea those were lyrics.

    Anyhow- I don't want to bash what little I've heard of the Ottoman score; compared to major screw ups like the Mission: Impossible 3 soundtrack it's a revelation- he gets the Superman March main titles exactly right and it's wonderful to hear it so clear. What orchestra did he use? I was lucky enough to hear the London Symphony Orchestra play John Williams last year and I was amazed to hear all his themes sounding exactly like the original recordings; this one sounds pretty close.
  • arthur pringlearthur pringle SpacePosts: 366MI6 Agent
    I read an interesting page on the web the other day about the problems of getting Superman back on the big screen.I knew about the Tim Burton/Nicholas Cage stuff and Kevin Smith's script.What I didn't know was that Brett Ratner was slated to direct for a period.The page states that he left the project because he disagreed with the studio over casting.Apparently those being considered for Superman/Clark Kent at the time included Jerry O'Connell,Henry Cavill and Aston Kutcher(!).
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,934MI6 Agent
    Don't forget McG was on for while- he apparently didn't like the idea of an American hero's film being made outside the US. I wonder what he though of the original Superman movies. Or Batman. Or Star Wars. Or Indiana Jones... ;)
  • arthur pringlearthur pringle SpacePosts: 366MI6 Agent
    I think Superman fans should be thankful that Bryan Singer ended up on the project.McG indeed...
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    emtiem wrote:
    What orchestra did he use? I was lucky enough to hear the London Symphony Orchestra play John Williams last year and I was amazed to hear all his themes sounding exactly like the original recordings; this one sounds pretty close.

    This score was recorded by 99 musicians - the orchestra is called Hollywood Symphony... Basically the good old union musicians who are so legendarily expensive. :p
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    I read an interesting page on the web the other day about the problems of getting Superman back on the big screen.I knew about the Tim Burton/Nicholas Cage stuff and Kevin Smith's script.What I didn't know was that Brett Ratner was slated to direct for a period.The page states that he left the project because he disagreed with the studio over casting.Apparently those being considered for Superman/Clark Kent at the time included Jerry O'Connell,Henry Cavill and Aston Kutcher(!).


    Josh Hartnett was also mentioned as a possible Superman when J.J.Abrams' Superman movie was in it's earliest stages and McG was still the director.

    And Wolfgang Peterson was once signed by Warners to direct a movie called Batman Vs.Superman--no kidding.A live action "World's Finest" movie with The Joker and Lex Luthor the villains.Several actors were discussed to play the Man of Steel, with Jude Law an apparent favorite.This was obviously before Superman Returns went into production and also before Peterson decided to do Posiedon.

    Stax reviews the Batman Vs.Superman screenplay on his site over on IGN.
  • arthur pringlearthur pringle SpacePosts: 366MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    Batman v Superman? That sounds like The Dark Knight Returns.

    Ben Affleck is,I hear,making a film about portly original Superman star George Reeves.I don't know much about Reeves but his death was apparently mysterious.The interesting thing about this film is that it was originally supposed to be directed by Bryan Singer and feature the ubiquitous Hugh Jackman as Superman (!)
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    Batman v Superman? That sounds like The Dark Knight Returns.

    Ben Affleck is,I hear,making a film about portly original Superman star George Reeves.I don't know much about Reeves but his death was apparently mysterious.The interesting thing about this film is that it was originally supposed to be directed by Bryan Singer and feature the ubiquitous Hugh Jackman as Superman (!)

    I remember reading somewhere that the estate of Jerry Siegel sued the producers of this George Reeves bio-pic to make certain they did not use the trademark "Superman" as part of the movie's title. Reeve's death is one of the great Hollywood mysteries; I'll be curious to see how this turns out.

    As for Superman Returns, there's a lengthy interview with Bryan Singer on the Hollywood Reporter's website in which he talks about how he came to make the movie and also offers some tidbits on the film and the eventual release on DVD:


    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/grove_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002614570
  • arthur pringlearthur pringle SpacePosts: 366MI6 Agent
    TonyDP wrote:
    Batman v Superman? That sounds like The Dark Knight Returns.

    Ben Affleck is,I hear,making a film about portly original Superman star George Reeves.I don't know much about Reeves but his death was apparently mysterious.The interesting thing about this film is that it was originally supposed to be directed by Bryan Singer and feature the ubiquitous Hugh Jackman as Superman (!)

    I remember reading somewhere that the estate of Jerry Siegel sued the producers of this George Reeves bio-pic to make certain they did not use the trademark "Superman" as part of the movie's title. Reeve's death is one of the great Hollywood mysteries; I'll be curious to see how this turns out.

    As for Superman Returns, there's a lengthy interview with Bryan Singer on the Hollywood Reporter's website in which he talks about how he came to make the movie and also offers some tidbits on the film and the eventual release on DVD:


    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr/columns/grove_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002614570




    Interesting article.I like the fact that Singer wasn't interested in another origin story.As he said,it's been done before and there is currently a tv show mining that specific theme.I'm glad that they decided not to tread too familiar ground.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    For those intrested in the musical side of things, our interview with John Ottman is finally on-line:

    http://www.filmzene.net/read.php?u=interju_john_ottman_english.html

    The first part of the interview is pretty much dedicated to this movie, plus there are some exlusive pics about the recording sessions. :)

    We also reviewed the original Williams score to celebrate this occasion and gave it a 8/10, though I expressed earlier in this thread how nobody ever listened this CD from start to finish. :p
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    The Cat wrote:

    We also reviewed the original Williams score to celebrate this occasion and gave it a 8/10, though I expressed earlier in this thread how nobody ever listened this CD from start to finish. :p

    Williams' score for Superman is simply one of his best of all time IMO. For a film that goes from superhero action, romance, comedy, sci-fi, and drama, Williams never missed a beat, and brought it all together seamlessly. I'm glad to hear his theme returning in this Singer continuation.
  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    darenhat wrote:
    The Cat wrote:

    We also reviewed the original Williams score to celebrate this occasion and gave it a 8/10, though I expressed earlier in this thread how nobody ever listened this CD from start to finish. :p

    Williams' score for Superman is simply one of his best of all time IMO. For a film that goes from superhero action, romance, comedy, sci-fi, and drama, Williams never missed a beat, and brought it all together seamlessly.

    Listen to the album first... Than make a reply like that. :p If you already did, I applaud you -> {[] It's fun with the movie, but why can't I listen to it alone? But at least it serves the picture, which can not be said about many contemporary score. :/
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    The Cat wrote:
    For those intrested in the musical side of things, our interview with John Ottman is finally on-line:

    http://www.filmzene.net/read.php?u=interju_john_ottman_english.html

    The first part of the interview is pretty much dedicated to this movie, plus there are some exlusive pics about the recording sessions. :)

    We also reviewed the original Williams score to celebrate this occasion and gave it a 8/10, though I expressed earlier in this thread how nobody ever listened this CD from start to finish. :p

    Great interview Cat, thanks for sharing. I love Singer's attitude about not wanting songs anywhere near his movies as that's always been a pet peeve of mine as well.
  • Moonraker 5Moonraker 5 Ayrshire, ScotlandPosts: 1,821MI6 Agent
    Apologies if this has already been brought up earlier in the thread, but there's an interesting article in today's Sunday Times casting doubt on its potential, entitled Superman, you're a big girl's blouse. It claims that there's quite a bit of anxiety among the studio executives on whether it will recoup or not, hinting that the film doesn't know what it wants to be, compounded by Bryan Singer's comment that it's a "chick flick about a superhero seen from a woman’s perspective, with qualities you’d want in a husband".


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2220120.html
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  • The CatThe Cat Where Blofeld is!Posts: 711MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    TonyDP wrote:
    Great interview Cat, thanks for sharing. I love Singer's attitude about not wanting songs anywhere near his movies as that's always been a pet peeve of mine as well.

    Glad you liked it. John was far my best interview victim so far. A big improvement over Brian "yes/no" Tyler. :p
    Apologies if this has already been brought up earlier in the thread, but there's an interesting article in today's Sunday Times casting doubt on its potential, entitled Superman, you're a big girl's blouse. It claims that there's quite a bit of anxiety among the studio executives on whether it will recoup or not, hinting that the film doesn't know what it wants to be, compounded by Bryan Singer's comment that it's a "chick flick about a superhero seen from a woman’s perspective, with qualities you’d want in a husband".


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2220120.html

    I admit this is one of the things I fear a bit, because the trailer did have hints of this aspect. Divorced single mom Lois Lane with a child... Hm... Still not sure about the sound of that...
  • arthur pringlearthur pringle SpacePosts: 366MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    I've seen a couple of early reactions to this film and the main complaint seems to be that Kevin Spacey as Lex Luthor is underused.I find that quite suprising given how heavily he appears in the trailers and promotional spots.The word is reasonably good with a big thumbs up for the flying sequences.
  • TonyDPTonyDP Inside the MonolithPosts: 4,307MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    Apologies if this has already been brought up earlier in the thread, but there's an interesting article in today's Sunday Times casting doubt on its potential, entitled Superman, you're a big girl's blouse. It claims that there's quite a bit of anxiety among the studio executives on whether it will recoup or not, hinting that the film doesn't know what it wants to be, compounded by Bryan Singer's comment that it's a "chick flick about a superhero seen from a woman’s perspective, with qualities you’d want in a husband".


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2220120.html

    Given that the film reportedly cost upward of $250 million to make, it will probably be some time before it is considered profitable (even if it's a runaway hit). I think WB is looking at the long-term picture with this one and hoping that it will reignite the franchise.

    Personally, I'd attribute Singer's comments to a director trying to get his movie out to a wider audience beyond the usual action movie buffs. Although I did read that he cut the sequence where Superman visits the remains of Krypton in favor of more character-driven moments.

    The advance word on the film has been quite positive. A local film critic has already posted a semi-review in his blog and has some very good things to say about it (although I honestly think these kinds of movies are pretty critic-proof):


    http://news.bostonherald.com/blogs/stephenSchaefer/?p=63

    Also, as an FYI, there's an interview with Bryan Singer on the Aint It Cool News website:


    http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23557

    Lastly, I just saw Routh on the MTV pre-awards show. The guy sounded uncannily like Christopher Reeve (even his inflection sounded similar). He, Kate Bosworth and Kevin Spacey presented the "Best Hero" award to Christian Bale of all people. It made for a pretty amusing presentation and Bale showed a very good understanding of the Batman character (he also poked fun at Routh, telling him Batman was the real badass).
  • darenhatdarenhat The Old PuebloPosts: 2,029Quartermasters
    The Cat wrote:

    Listen to the album first... Than make a reply like that. :p If you already did, I applaud you -> {[] It's fun with the movie, but why can't I listen to it alone? But at least it serves the picture, which can not be said about many contemporary score. :/

    I listen to the score quite frequently and it still ranks as one of my all-time favorites from John Williams. Admittedly, the 2-disc re-released extended score is a bit poorly arranged in terms of track order, and the second disk has far too many renditions of the "Can You Read My Mind?" love theme. The original condensed soundtrack was a much better balance of music for just listening to. Much of the music that was added to the re-released CD, however, was music that was meant to be supplemental and enhance the visuals of the film. It's an admirable feat when the music can stand alone, adn much of Williams' scores achieve that very thing...but sometimes film music needs to be appreciated in its context. :)
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    The Bryan Singer-produced and Kevin Spacey-narrated documentary,
    "Look,up in the sky!The Amazing Story of Superman" debuts
    tonight(at 5 pm and 9 pm--June 12, 2006) on cable's Arts & Entertainment channel.At 90 minutes minus those pesky commercials it couldn't be considered a definitive account, but it looks like it might be pretty interesting nonetheless.

    Apparently both filmmakers and comics writers/artists are interviewed, and some never before and/or rarely seen Superman screentests(from the 1970s) are part of the package.Additionally, there'll be comments by various performers who've been involved in the many Superman TV shows and movies of the past.And because this documentary is tied to Superman Returns, there'll also be a few glimpses at the upcoming motion picture,as well.

    This program will be available on DVD starting on June 20,2006-- with an extra 30 minutes added.
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,934MI6 Agent
    There's reviews of this film all over the net now and they're all glowingly positive- Routh is getting a huge amount of praise.
  • AlexAlex The Eastern SeaboardPosts: 2,694MI6 Agent
    Apologies if this has already been brought up earlier in the thread, but there's an interesting article in today's Sunday Times casting doubt on its potential, entitled Superman, you're a big girl's blouse. It claims that there's quite a bit of anxiety among the studio executives on whether it will recoup or not, hinting that the film doesn't know what it wants to be, compounded by Bryan Singer's comment that it's a "chick flick about a superhero seen from a woman’s perspective, with qualities you’d want in a husband".


    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2220120.html
    Love this bit here .. (wonder what job skills were required) ;)

    Louise Mingenback, a costume designer on the new film, said: “There was more discussion about Superman’s ‘package’ than anything else on the suit. Was it too big? Too round? Too pointy? There was someone just working on codpiece shapes for about a month.

    I'm all for Superman Returns to succeed, but I just can't can't see this Routh as Supes. I think a "plank of wood" was used by MBE. So true, I'm also seeing a big Doofus... Sorry! {:)
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,934MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    Love this bit here .. (wonder what job skills were required) ;)

    Louise Mingenback, a costume designer on the new film, said: “There was more discussion about Superman’s ‘package’ than anything else on the suit. Was it too big? Too round? Too pointy? There was someone just working on codpiece shapes for about a month.

    There's a great quote from the producer of the first film when they had a similar debate about Chris Reeves' Superman's little superman: 'Either he has the biggest one in the world, or he has NOTHING!' :D
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,934MI6 Agent
    Alex wrote:
    I'm all for Superman Returns to succeed, but I just can't can't see this Routh as Supes.

    I do know what you mean, but the reviews are giving me encouragement. Here's a little selection I just found which someone else handily made into a list!
    Originally Posted by Jonah Weiland @ The Comic Reel Brandon Routh turns in a performance that at many times plays as an homage to Christopher Reeve's legendary portrayal of Superman while managing to prove scene-after-scene that he now owns the role.

    Originally Posted by Jane Boursaw @ Kaboose Brandon Routh is perfect in the role, playing Clark Kent as a clumsy, bumbling reporter and Superman as a strong and powerful hero.

    Originally Posted by Justin @ Bluetights.net Brandon Routh is my Superman . . . He's not simply cloning what Reeve gave us two decades ago, but he is exuding the same sort of aura that Reeve did back then. The best way that I can describe it is to say that these two are cut from the same cloth.

    Originally Posted by Stephen Schaefer @ The Boston Herald Like Apollo come to earth, like Atlas holding the world in the great Rockefeller Center sculpture,
    Routh’s Superman has a gravity that enobles this entire two-and-a-half hour picture.

    Originally Posted by Sponge @ Ain't It Cool Brandon Routh is better as Superman than as Clark Kent

    Originally Posted by Jeffrey Bridges @ Superman Homepage Brandon Routh? There is no longer any doubt.
    Brandon Routh IS Superman.

    Originally Posted by Stephanie Sanchez @ IESB.net Brandon Routh is Superman. Period. He seemed to embody the very fiber of Superman's being. He turned in a phenomenal performance and gave a fresh face to a well-known character.

    Originally Posted by Kellvin Chavez @ Latino Review If you have any misgivings about the castings . . . Brandon and Kevin are unbelievably good so count on many chills going up and down your spine. Watching them is like watching the comic come to life.

    Originally Posted by Paul Fischer @ Dark Horizons Brandon Routh is the perfect successor to Chris Reeve, and shows us a character that has both strength and vulnerability.
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    This is encouraging information--hopefully the general public will share those opinions once the film hits theaters.

    Over on Ain't it Cool News,Harry Knowles interviews Singer and it's revealed that Warners is happy enough with Superman Returns to be seriously discussing a sequel.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent Speeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
    Well as long as Darkseid or Braniac are seriously considered, I can truly get excited about Superman's cinematic outlook...


    Thumbs up thus far....a good sign. {[]
    Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"

    Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
    -Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    RogueAgent wrote:
    Well as long as Darkseid or Braniac are seriously considered, I can truly get excited about Superman's cinematic outlook...


    Thumbs up thus far....a good sign. {[]


    Full agreement.While I'd like to see Darkseid in action, Doomsday wouldn't be too bad an adversary either.

    Here's hoping Luthor doesn't make a return engagement or General Zod--for that matter.I'd really hate to see a sequel to SR begin with Zod and friends escaping from the Phantom Zone..
  • arthur pringlearthur pringle SpacePosts: 366MI6 Agent
    The current 'Ain't It Cool' Superman talkback is interesting because several posters are drawing parallels with the James Bond series.It all started when someone proclaimed Routh as the George Lazenby of Superman actors.Presumably the suggestion is he looks the part but can't act.However,as others have pointed out,Lazenby was in the best James Bond film ever made and not everyone (including me) thinks he was a bad Bond.
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited June 2006
    The current 'Ain't It Cool' Superman talkback is interesting because several posters are drawing parallels with the James Bond series.It all started when someone proclaimed Routh as the George Lazenby of Superman actors.Presumably the suggestion is he looks the part but can't act.However,as others have pointed out,Lazenby was in the best James Bond film ever made and not everyone (including me) thinks he was a bad Bond.


    That's true.Some people who've only seen pictures of Brandon Routh have already decided that he is untalented and won't be convincing as Superman.It's quite unfair to make these kinds of presumptions without first seeing him in the role.I'd never seen Routh act before(as far as I know,anyway) and was uncertain about him until I saw him in character as Superman/Clark Kent in the brief excerpts from Superman Returns that are in the last portion of the Superman documentary.In my opinion, no one should play Superman as an exact imitation of any of the actors who have come before him.This character can be interpreted in a variety of ways while still remaining respectful to the source material.

    Overall, Routh seems well cast as both The Man of Steel and his alter ego.Although there's a shared resemblance,Brandon Routh is not Christopher Reeve (much less Dean Cain or George Reeves or Kirk Alyn or anyone else for that matter),but I think he makes a good Superman/Clark Kent regardless.Ultimately,he has to take custody of the character and make Superman his own.There's nothing wrong with Routh's speaking voice or his posture.And from what I saw,rather than being stiff,Routh came across as confident and assured in his dual role.

    And it was great to see that Jack Larson plays a supporting role(with dialogue!) in SR and apparently Noel Neill does too.:)
  • LoeffelholzLoeffelholz The United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
    I don't know about anyone else, but I am hugely excited that this picture opens tomorrow. My sons and I will be there... B-)
    Check out my Amazon author page! Mark Loeffelholz
    "I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
    "Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
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