It is very funny. It is also a reminder as to why Batman should never be in a film with Superman. Supe's a genuine super hero who can change the direction of time, while Batman is just a human being. 8-)
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Heath keeps the laugh to a minimum and he and I will have problems with this... 8-)
For better or worse Rogue, Nolan likes to stress "realism" in these movies and as such I think his Joker will be radically different from his four color counterpart. Scarecrow really looked very little like we're used to seeing him and I think that can give some insights into where Nolan wants to go with these characters. I just hope he doesn't pull a Tim Burton/Batman Returns and go overboard with the "dark and twisted" angle.
It is also a reminder as to why Batman should never be in a film with Superman. Supe's a genuine super hero who can change the direction of time, while Batman is just a human being. 8-)
Actually Dan, if the story is well written and takes into account each character's strengths and weaknesses (ie: Superman's superior physical abilities and Batman's superior mind), you can make a good movie that stars both characters. For some neat examples of Batman/Superman crossovers that work well, go check out the animated "Batman & Superman: World's Finest" movie, as well as some episodes of their respective animated shows (Knighttime and Demon Reborn come to mind).
Heath keeps the laugh to a minimum and he and I will have problems with this... 8-)
For better or worse Rogue, Nolan likes to stress "realism" in these movies and as such I think his Joker will be radically different from his four color counterpart. Scarecrow really looked very little like we're used to seeing him and I think that can give some insights into where Nolan wants to go with these characters. I just hope he doesn't pull a Tim Burton/Batman Returns and go overboard with the "dark and twisted" angle.
I don't want a Burtonlike take on The Joker,either--but I do want him to be frightening and a worthy foe for Batman.It's entirely possible that Nolan is planning on reinventing The Joker's image but hopefully he won't just settle on throwing another bag over the villain's head.For all of his attempts at instilling an air of "realism" into his Batman movies these things are still Batman movies,not documentaries, and Batman's rogue gallery is famous the world over.It'd be a mistake to downplay the appearances of some of these famous characters-especially those of The Joker and The Penguin.It'd be the equivalent of the Walt Disney Company suddenly putting a sailor cap on a real duck and deciding to use him to play Donald-or sticking a pair of shorts on a real mouse and calling him Mickey.
Batman isn't real--he might be a little more believable than most other comic book heroes, but he's really just an updated Zorro(complete to the underground hideout in a cavern directly below his mansion), with a modified version of the pulp hero The Black Bat's costume(the only difference being ears on the hood and a noseguard--everything else--including the scalloped cape,was already in place).When masked,his eyes disappear just like The Phantom's,and the utility belt comes from Doc Savage,while his freakish criminals are inspired by Dick Tracy's group of bizarre Bad Guys.Overall,Batman's regalia isn't original, but his presentation IS and his very theatricality is designed to terrify criminals.Say what Nolan will,and he can probably come up with as many excuses as possible to try and explain this look-- it's still not "real".
If Nolan really wanted to make Batman seem "real" he'd be more likely to just wear a ski mask,drive a sports car and immediately shoot anyone he thought could be a criminal dead on sight.
It's probably significant that the image on the joker card left with Jim Gordon is an extremely subdued illustration of a medieval jester shown in perfect proportion--as opposed to the exaggerated and wild-eyed grinning clown favored by The Joker in the comics and in all of the other visual iterations of this villain.
Hopefully we'll see something resembling the comic book character's face--even if it is a riff on Gwynplaine--because it's still much too potent a look to cast aside, regardless of how menacing another cloth bag over the head might seem to Nolan.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Good points, W.G.
A frightening vision of Nolan's Joker had me thinking court jester and I quickly extinguished the thought... )
I'll be glad when shooting starts on this so that pics of Ledger are seeped out on some website or another and hopefully put my fears to rest.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
It is also a reminder as to why Batman should never be in a film with Superman. Supe's a genuine super hero who can change the direction of time, while Batman is just a human being. 8-)
I hope to God that your statements above are just marinated with sarcasm and not to be taken literally... X-(
)
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Y'know,Rogue,I'm thinking the look given The Joker in Dean Motter's film noir-inspired Batman Elseworlds GN Nine Lives, might be what Nolan could do.The Joker in this is depicted in a more realistic style,but he does have a long lantern jaw and a prominent nose(sort of a Bruce Campbell/Brent Spiner combination)--plus a high hairline.He's clearly recognizable as The Joker but he also looks a shade more human than most traditional renderings.
* * * *
And if Dan's interested in learning a little more about Batman, here are a few books I recommend:
1)Batman-The Complete History by Les Daniels.What it says..the authorized account of how Batman was created and what happened to him after his debut in Detective Comics #27,1939.Daniels has also written histories of Superman,Wonder Woman,Catwoman and Plastic Man in this format--they're all worth a peek,IMO.
2)Batman From the 30s to the 80s--a big collection of Batman tales covering over five decades.Features the origins and first appearances of all of the key characters, plus a number of stories in a wide variety of styles.
3)Batman: Year One by Frank Miller and David Mazzuchelli.An updated version of Batman's origin and a sizable influence on the tone and content of "Batman Begins".The motion picture "Taxi Driver" influenced the look of this book's artwork.
4)Batman-The Killing Joke by Alan Moore and Brian Bolland.One version of The Joker's mysterious origin,beautifully drawn.
5)Batman:The Long Halloween by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale.Recounting Bruce Wayne's first year in costume fighting crime as Batman and also Jim Gordon's rise to Gotham City's police commisioner.Storyline offers an intricate mystery that takes Batman almost 12 months to solve--and along the way he meets his infamous costumed rogue's gallery(Joker,Penguin,Catwoman,etc.):the "Halloween" of the title.This story was another influence on "Batman Begins"(primarily the Batman/Jim Gordon relationship) and features some characters who even appeared in the film itself:notably the notorious Falcone crime family.The sequel to this book is Dark Victory.
Thematically a kind of "Batman meets The Godfather" with some costumed villains along for good measure.
6)Batman-Son of the Demon by Mike W.Barr.The story of the mysterious and nearly immortal villain Ras' al Ghul ("the Demon's Head") and Batman's efforts to bring him to bay.Ras',of course,was the principal bad guy in "Batman Begins"--this recounts his origin and his ties to Batman in the DC Comics continuity."The Batman:The Animated Series" has a episode based upon this very story--it's well-done(IMO anyway)and worth a peek if you're curious.:)
A good university library would probably have some of these books on their shelves--a few local ones might,as well.:)
And I echo Tony's recommendations of those animated programs--they're great examples of the Superman/Batman team.Check 'em out!
You know WG, I was thinking abou the Killing Joke today. I think it's one of the best Joker stories ever (I love the artwork on that one) and, for those who are worried about how many times Joker is going to laugh in the movie, Joker only laughs twice in the whole book (as far as I can recall): once when he sees his new "face" and again at the end when he and Batman are sharing a laugh (very chilling to me, those final panels were, as they showed that Bats was just as crazy as the Joker).
Anyhow, it just goes to show that you can have an effective Joker without always resorting to his obscene giggle. There's way more to the character than that.
I just hope Nolan doesn't revise the character too much. I hope his skin is really bleached white (rather than having him be flesh colored), I hope he flashes the demonic smile (even if they tone down the prosthetics), and I hope he wears a purple suit (even if it is a very very dark shade of purple to make it seem less...comic booky). But let's not get a generic psycho who we only know as the Joker because he says he is. That would be a real shame.
And while we're at it, would it be asking too much to have the black bat in the yellow oval on Batman's chest? I know that it was introduced for copyright purposes as DC could not trademark the bat by itself, but I for one really missed that iconic image (hard to believe that it hasn't been used since the midpoint of Batman Forever.
You know WG, I was thinking abou the Killing Joke today. I think it's one of the best Joker stories ever (I love the artwork on that one) and, for those who are worried about how many times Joker is going to laugh in the movie, Joker only laughs twice in the whole book (as far as I can recall): once when he sees his new "face" and again at the end when he and Batman are sharing a laugh (very chilling to me, those final panels were, as they showed that Bats was just as crazy as the Joker).
Anyhow, it just goes to show that you can have an effective Joker without always resorting to his obscene giggle. There's way more to the character than that.
I just hope Nolan doesn't revise the character too much. I hope his skin is really bleached white (rather than having him be flesh colored), I hope he flashes the demonic smile (even if they tone down the prosthetics), and I hope he wears a purple suit (even if it is a very very dark shade of purple to make it seem less...comic booky). But let's not get a generic psycho who we only know as the Joker because he says he is. That would be a real shame.
And while we're at it, would it be asking too much to have the black bat in the yellow oval on Batman's chest? I know that it was introduced for copyright purposes as DC could not trademark the bat by itself, but I for one really missed that iconic image (hard to believe that it hasn't been used since the midpoint of Batman Forever.
I want what you want too--the bleached skin,the long distended face and the huge(and unpleasant) smile ala' Gwynplaine.I also want Joker to have the evil eyes and that suit you mentioned--complete with the broad-brimmed hat and trenchcoat--kind of Pimp meets Zoot, but definitely a darker shade of purple.When he laughs,I want the sound to be frightening as opposed to humorous.I've always thought that Mark Hamill did a wonderful job of conveying the character's absolute evil and twisted view of things--and all the more remarkable considering some of the restraints the animated series obviously operated under.Hopefully Ledger can come up with a voice that good.
And here's another vote for the black bat emblem to appear in a yellow oval on Batman's chest at least once during Dark Knight.But no nipples on the costume...:v
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited September 2006
Good! Now I can come out of hiding and ad my vote for the yellow oval and emblem.
I'd wish Warners would comission me to do a realistic rendition of Joker. I think that I could come up with something horrific enough...;)
Personally, I think that he should look absolutely revolting and not handsome at all like many past graphic attempts.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Actually Dan, if the story is well written and takes into account each character's strengths and weaknesses (ie: Superman's superior physical abilities and Batman's superior mind), you can make a good movie that stars both characters. For some neat examples of Batman/Superman crossovers that work well, go check out the animated "Batman & Superman: World's Finest" movie, as well as some episodes of their respective animated shows (Knighttime and Demon Reborn come to mind).
Well, I wouldn't exactly call Superman a dunce. But as the only times I ever saw Superman and Batman in the same space together was on "Justice League" I will be the first to admit that there is alot about the two characters which I do not know.
I hope to God that your statements above are just marinated with sarcasm and not to be taken literally... X-(
)
They arose from complete and total madness. I would never insult Batman. I think he's absolutely awesome. Oh, and WG, thank you for those recommendations. I will add them to my ever-growing 'must read' list. {[]
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I heard that Bob Hoskins may play Penguin. And the character Harvey Dent (Two Face before he was two face) is in the film. Who do you think should play Dent and Penguin.Or maybe even The Riddler(Definitely not in the film).
Harvey Dent/Two Face:Michael Douglas
Penguin:Bob Hoskins
Riddler:Kevin Spacey
But it still has two years.
Cast listed for just now
Heath Ledger:The Joker
Christian Bale:Batman
Michael Caine:Alfred Pennyworth
Morgan Freeman:Lucius Fox
Gary Oldman:Lt Gordon
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Meh...All due respect, he was just servicable as Luthor and already connected with that other DC venture anyway.
His name doesn't catapult to the top of my list for E. Nigma's part. I have a Gorshin bias...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
Gorshin was perfect, wasn't he?
Mr MartiniThat nice house in the sky.Posts: 2,707MI6 Agent
I heard that Bob Hoskins may play Penguin. And the character Harvey Dent (Two Face before he was two face) is in the film. Who do you think should play Dent and Penguin.Or maybe even The Riddler(Definitely not in the film).
Harvey Dent/Two Face:Michael Douglas
Penguin:Bob Hoskins
Riddler:Kevin Spacey
But it still has two years.
Cast listed for just now
Heath Ledger:The Joker
Christian Bale:Batman
Michael Caine:Alfred Pennyworth
Morgan Freeman:Lucius Fox
Gary Oldman:Lt Gordon
I'd rather not see a bunch of villians in the second movie. Maybe two tops. Needless to say, The Joker. But not sure who I'd want the second one to be. Put Harvey Dent in the movie and your starting to repeat the 1989 movie. Might as well cast Billy Dee Williams again. It would be nice to see more of Scarecrow. But having two Pyscho paths in one movie might be a bit too much. I say, save Scarecrow and Riddler for the 3rd movie. Have Joker and Penquin in the second movie. Maybe a couple sub-villans in each movie. Some memorable names, but they'll be offed quickly.
As for the cast. Not sure who I'd want to play who. I like the idea of Bob Hoskins for Penquin. Bring back the same guy for Scarecrow. And for The Riddler, Johnny. Depp
Some people would complain even if you hang them with a new rope
A few more tidbits on B:TDK: looks like Chris Nolan has gotten his brother Jonathan to write the screenplay. And, according to Michael Caine's website, he starts filming his scenes for B:TDK next March. Here's a link to the entire article (not much else on there, but feel free to have a read):
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited September 2006
Well...this is sort of a Batman topic. I stumbled across this and a hint of nostalgia hit me; I was in elementary school again... Old schoolers here should appreciate this a little more.
Well...this is sort of a Batman topic. I stumbled across this and a hint of nostalgia hit me; I was in elementary school again... Old schoolers here should appreciate this a little more.
See Rogue, that just proves my point. Supe can stop a train from driving off a mountain, while Batman, well, he's just there to provide transportation for the real super heroes!
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
No offense, but the real weak link was always Aquaman. So many times, the other Superfriends were simply coming up with some silly thing to keep Aquaman occupied while they took care of business. He was pretty much useless out of the drink!
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Well...this is sort of a Batman topic. I stumbled across this and a hint of nostalgia hit me; I was in elementary school again... Old schoolers here should appreciate this a little more.
See Rogue, that just proves my point. Supe can stop a train from driving off a mountain, while Batman, well, he's just there to provide transportation for the real super heroes!
Gimme a break, Dan. He's picking up Wendy & Marvin. Real superheroes. 8-)
Although I strongly believe that Batman's considerably more popular than Supes then and now, in Superfriends, he was sooo watered down & chummy as opposed to the JLU cartoons of today. Still he's the man in my eyes.
And, darenhat...don't let Tony DP hear you say that about Aquaman. It really tees him off so to speak. He's his number one fan...
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Gimme a break, Dan. He's picking up Wendy & Marvin. Real superheroes. 8-)
Although I strongly believe that Batman's considerably more popular than Supes then and now, in Superfriends, he was sooo watered down & chummy as opposed to the JLU cartoons of today. Still he's the man in my eyes.
And, darenhat...don't let Tony DP hear you say that about Aquaman. It really tees him off so to speak. He's his number one fan...
I'm at work and as such can't check out the youtube clip until tonight, so I don't know what all the fuss is about (yet).
As for Aquaman, he goes around in green and orange tights and rides a giant seahorse. Do I really need to say anything else? If he wore that getup in my neighborhood, he'd really be sleeping with the fishes.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
As for Aquaman, he goes around in green and orange tights and rides a giant seahorse. Do I really need to say anything else? If he wore that getup in my neighborhood, he'd really be sleeping with the fishes.
) ) The laugh I needed to start the day.
Well at least they gave him some prominence that he sorely lacked in the old cartoons.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yeah, Aquaman went from being a milquetoast / waterboy to a snob with an attitude problem (why didn't they just call him Namor and be done with it?). John Stewart should have surrendered his Green Lantern power ring in shame for allowing himself to be knocked out by that loser. Sorry Rogue, but Aquaman just doesn't do it for me no matter how he's imagined. He'd be my prime candidate to kill off in DC's next mega-crossover.
Dan, if you haven't already done so, drop everything and go check out the animated Batman & Superman: World's Finest. Absolutely awesome Batman/Superman crossover where both heros really get to kick ass, strut their stuff and show that they're more equally matched than you might at first think. If WB just filmed this as a live action movie with Christian Bale and Brandon Routh, it would earn at least $500 million. Guaranteed.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Dan, if you haven't already done so, drop everything and go check out the animated Batman & Superman: World's Finest. Absolutely awesome Batman/Superman crossover where both heros really get to kick ass, strut their stuff and show that they're more equally matched than you might at first think. If WB just filmed this as a live action movie with Christian Bale and Brandon Routh, it would earn at least $500 million. Guaranteed.
This may be a bit fanboy in tastes to some of you but this helps solidify Tony's point:
Again, I really shouldn't check this out at work; but there was a great scene in that show where Superman uses his x-ray vision to figure out that Bruce Wayne is Batman. Even though he doesn't have any superpowers, Batman cleverly turns the tables and uses his specialized skills to figure out Superman's secret identity in about 5 minutes. As Lex Luthor once said, "mind over muscle".
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I agree with that, Tony. Sometimes, although I like him alot, Superman's confindence- I should rephrase that- arrogance makes him come off a bit oafish. He exudes alot of times that feeling that he's untouchable or maybe that his brawn outweighs one's capacity for thought. Case in point, the little scene on fake Krypton in SR. You'd think that he wouldn't have gone there without a gameplan.
C'mon, he has a history with Luthor; the man doesn't play fair! )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
That's one of the biggest minuses on the Batman movies...they underplay the idea about how smart Bruce Wayne really is. Batman Begins sort of harkened back to the Detective Comic days, but too often The Dark Knight is looked upon who relies on gadgets to be a hero. And even in the end, it seems to always resort to fisticuff action. In a 'brawn' match between Batman and Superman, Batman wouldn't stand a chance...however the REAL Batman would never let it get that far...he'd have The Man of Steel down before Supes ever knew what was coming.
Well...this is sort of a Batman topic. I stumbled across this and a hint of nostalgia hit me; I was in elementary school again... Old schoolers here should appreciate this a little more.
The Superfriends just doesn't hold up for me. I used to watch that religiously as a kid but once my age reached double digits it quickly dropped off my radar. The censors really did a number on it. Nobody could even throw a punch and Batman was reduced to a cowled babysitter. I also hated Wendy, Marvin and Wonderdog to no end.
Challenge of the Superfriends was not much better. Again, nobody could do anything physical and the only insult the bad guys could come up with was "fool". I can still hear Lex Luthor now: "Bat-fool", "Super-fool", "Green-fool".
Did you ever see Collora's Batman: Dead End fan film? That one was pretty good too, but between Batman, the Alien and the Predator, the fanboy quotient really went off the dial. Here's a link to a youtube version.
The Superfriends just doesn't hold up for me. I used to watch that religiously as a kid but once my age reached double digits it quickly dropped off my radar. The censors really did a number on it. Nobody could even throw a punch and Batman was reduced to a cowled babysitter. I also hated Wendy, Marvin and Wonderdog to no end.
Challenge of the Superfriends was not much better. Again, nobody could do anything physical and the only insult the bad guys could come up with was "fool". I can still hear Lex Luthor now: "Bat-fool", "Super-fool", "Green-fool".
Ease up, Tony... It was the 70s and we were pretty green. ) That was clearly a different time. This generation's content comes across alot bolder for kids/pre-teens than ours did. Not our fault that we wised up sooner than expected...
And I detested Wendy, Marvin & those Wonder Twins, too.
Did you ever see Collora's Batman: Dead End fan film? That one was pretty good too, but between Batman, the Alien and the Predator, the fanboy quotient really went off the dial. Here's a link to a youtube version.
Gimme a break, Dan. He's picking up Wendy & Marvin. Real superheroes. 8-)
Sorry Rogue, I couldn't resist. In all seriousness I really do love Batman.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Comments
For better or worse Rogue, Nolan likes to stress "realism" in these movies and as such I think his Joker will be radically different from his four color counterpart. Scarecrow really looked very little like we're used to seeing him and I think that can give some insights into where Nolan wants to go with these characters. I just hope he doesn't pull a Tim Burton/Batman Returns and go overboard with the "dark and twisted" angle.
Actually Dan, if the story is well written and takes into account each character's strengths and weaknesses (ie: Superman's superior physical abilities and Batman's superior mind), you can make a good movie that stars both characters. For some neat examples of Batman/Superman crossovers that work well, go check out the animated "Batman & Superman: World's Finest" movie, as well as some episodes of their respective animated shows (Knighttime and Demon Reborn come to mind).
I don't want a Burtonlike take on The Joker,either--but I do want him to be frightening and a worthy foe for Batman.It's entirely possible that Nolan is planning on reinventing The Joker's image but hopefully he won't just settle on throwing another bag over the villain's head.For all of his attempts at instilling an air of "realism" into his Batman movies these things are still Batman movies,not documentaries, and Batman's rogue gallery is famous the world over.It'd be a mistake to downplay the appearances of some of these famous characters-especially those of The Joker and The Penguin.It'd be the equivalent of the Walt Disney Company suddenly putting a sailor cap on a real duck and deciding to use him to play Donald-or sticking a pair of shorts on a real mouse and calling him Mickey.
Batman isn't real--he might be a little more believable than most other comic book heroes, but he's really just an updated Zorro(complete to the underground hideout in a cavern directly below his mansion), with a modified version of the pulp hero The Black Bat's costume(the only difference being ears on the hood and a noseguard--everything else--including the scalloped cape,was already in place).When masked,his eyes disappear just like The Phantom's,and the utility belt comes from Doc Savage,while his freakish criminals are inspired by Dick Tracy's group of bizarre Bad Guys.Overall,Batman's regalia isn't original, but his presentation IS and his very theatricality is designed to terrify criminals.Say what Nolan will,and he can probably come up with as many excuses as possible to try and explain this look-- it's still not "real".
If Nolan really wanted to make Batman seem "real" he'd be more likely to just wear a ski mask,drive a sports car and immediately shoot anyone he thought could be a criminal dead on sight.
It's probably significant that the image on the joker card left with Jim Gordon is an extremely subdued illustration of a medieval jester shown in perfect proportion--as opposed to the exaggerated and wild-eyed grinning clown favored by The Joker in the comics and in all of the other visual iterations of this villain.
Hopefully we'll see something resembling the comic book character's face--even if it is a riff on Gwynplaine--because it's still much too potent a look to cast aside, regardless of how menacing another cloth bag over the head might seem to Nolan.
A frightening vision of Nolan's Joker had me thinking court jester and I quickly extinguished the thought...
I'll be glad when shooting starts on this so that pics of Ledger are seeped out on some website or another and hopefully put my fears to rest.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I hope to God that your statements above are just marinated with sarcasm and not to be taken literally... X-(
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
* * * *
And if Dan's interested in learning a little more about Batman, here are a few books I recommend:
1)Batman-The Complete History by Les Daniels.What it says..the authorized account of how Batman was created and what happened to him after his debut in Detective Comics #27,1939.Daniels has also written histories of Superman,Wonder Woman,Catwoman and Plastic Man in this format--they're all worth a peek,IMO.
2)Batman From the 30s to the 80s--a big collection of Batman tales covering over five decades.Features the origins and first appearances of all of the key characters, plus a number of stories in a wide variety of styles.
3)Batman: Year One by Frank Miller and David Mazzuchelli.An updated version of Batman's origin and a sizable influence on the tone and content of "Batman Begins".The motion picture "Taxi Driver" influenced the look of this book's artwork.
4)Batman-The Killing Joke by Alan Moore and Brian Bolland.One version of The Joker's mysterious origin,beautifully drawn.
5)Batman:The Long Halloween by Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale.Recounting Bruce Wayne's first year in costume fighting crime as Batman and also Jim Gordon's rise to Gotham City's police commisioner.Storyline offers an intricate mystery that takes Batman almost 12 months to solve--and along the way he meets his infamous costumed rogue's gallery(Joker,Penguin,Catwoman,etc.):the "Halloween" of the title.This story was another influence on "Batman Begins"(primarily the Batman/Jim Gordon relationship) and features some characters who even appeared in the film itself:notably the notorious Falcone crime family.The sequel to this book is Dark Victory.
Thematically a kind of "Batman meets The Godfather" with some costumed villains along for good measure.
6)Batman-Son of the Demon by Mike W.Barr.The story of the mysterious and nearly immortal villain Ras' al Ghul ("the Demon's Head") and Batman's efforts to bring him to bay.Ras',of course,was the principal bad guy in "Batman Begins"--this recounts his origin and his ties to Batman in the DC Comics continuity."The Batman:The Animated Series" has a episode based upon this very story--it's well-done(IMO anyway)and worth a peek if you're curious.:)
A good university library would probably have some of these books on their shelves--a few local ones might,as well.:)
And I echo Tony's recommendations of those animated programs--they're great examples of the Superman/Batman team.Check 'em out!
Anyhow, it just goes to show that you can have an effective Joker without always resorting to his obscene giggle. There's way more to the character than that.
I just hope Nolan doesn't revise the character too much. I hope his skin is really bleached white (rather than having him be flesh colored), I hope he flashes the demonic smile (even if they tone down the prosthetics), and I hope he wears a purple suit (even if it is a very very dark shade of purple to make it seem less...comic booky). But let's not get a generic psycho who we only know as the Joker because he says he is. That would be a real shame.
And while we're at it, would it be asking too much to have the black bat in the yellow oval on Batman's chest? I know that it was introduced for copyright purposes as DC could not trademark the bat by itself, but I for one really missed that iconic image (hard to believe that it hasn't been used since the midpoint of Batman Forever.
I want what you want too--the bleached skin,the long distended face and the huge(and unpleasant) smile ala' Gwynplaine.I also want Joker to have the evil eyes and that suit you mentioned--complete with the broad-brimmed hat and trenchcoat--kind of Pimp meets Zoot, but definitely a darker shade of purple.When he laughs,I want the sound to be frightening as opposed to humorous.I've always thought that Mark Hamill did a wonderful job of conveying the character's absolute evil and twisted view of things--and all the more remarkable considering some of the restraints the animated series obviously operated under.Hopefully Ledger can come up with a voice that good.
And here's another vote for the black bat emblem to appear in a yellow oval on Batman's chest at least once during Dark Knight.But no nipples on the costume...:v
I'd wish Warners would comission me to do a realistic rendition of Joker. I think that I could come up with something horrific enough...;)
Personally, I think that he should look absolutely revolting and not handsome at all like many past graphic attempts.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
They arose from complete and total madness.
Harvey Dent/Two Face:Michael Douglas
Penguin:Bob Hoskins
Riddler:Kevin Spacey
But it still has two years.
Cast listed for just now
Heath Ledger:The Joker
Christian Bale:Batman
Michael Caine:Alfred Pennyworth
Morgan Freeman:Lucius Fox
Gary Oldman:Lt Gordon
Meh...All due respect, he was just servicable as Luthor and already connected with that other DC venture anyway.
His name doesn't catapult to the top of my list for E. Nigma's part. I have a Gorshin bias...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'd rather not see a bunch of villians in the second movie. Maybe two tops. Needless to say, The Joker. But not sure who I'd want the second one to be. Put Harvey Dent in the movie and your starting to repeat the 1989 movie. Might as well cast Billy Dee Williams again. It would be nice to see more of Scarecrow. But having two Pyscho paths in one movie might be a bit too much. I say, save Scarecrow and Riddler for the 3rd movie. Have Joker and Penquin in the second movie. Maybe a couple sub-villans in each movie. Some memorable names, but they'll be offed quickly.
As for the cast. Not sure who I'd want to play who. I like the idea of Bob Hoskins for Penquin. Bring back the same guy for Scarecrow. And for The Riddler, Johnny. Depp
http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/734/734989p1.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqRxWAqnQ_g
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Gimme a break, Dan. He's picking up Wendy & Marvin. Real superheroes. 8-)
Although I strongly believe that Batman's considerably more popular than Supes then and now, in Superfriends, he was sooo watered down & chummy as opposed to the JLU cartoons of today. Still he's the man in my eyes.
And, darenhat...don't let Tony DP hear you say that about Aquaman. It really tees him off so to speak. He's his number one fan...
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'm at work and as such can't check out the youtube clip until tonight, so I don't know what all the fuss is about (yet).
As for Aquaman, he goes around in green and orange tights and rides a giant seahorse. Do I really need to say anything else? If he wore that getup in my neighborhood, he'd really be sleeping with the fishes.
Well at least they gave him some prominence that he sorely lacked in the old cartoons.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Dan, if you haven't already done so, drop everything and go check out the animated Batman & Superman: World's Finest. Absolutely awesome Batman/Superman crossover where both heros really get to kick ass, strut their stuff and show that they're more equally matched than you might at first think. If WB just filmed this as a live action movie with Christian Bale and Brandon Routh, it would earn at least $500 million. Guaranteed.
This may be a bit fanboy in tastes to some of you but this helps solidify Tony's point:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67IU799GIL4
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
C'mon, he has a history with Luthor; the man doesn't play fair!
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
The Superfriends just doesn't hold up for me. I used to watch that religiously as a kid but once my age reached double digits it quickly dropped off my radar. The censors really did a number on it. Nobody could even throw a punch and Batman was reduced to a cowled babysitter. I also hated Wendy, Marvin and Wonderdog to no end.
Challenge of the Superfriends was not much better. Again, nobody could do anything physical and the only insult the bad guys could come up with was "fool". I can still hear Lex Luthor now: "Bat-fool", "Super-fool", "Green-fool".
Did you ever see Collora's Batman: Dead End fan film? That one was pretty good too, but between Batman, the Alien and the Predator, the fanboy quotient really went off the dial. Here's a link to a youtube version.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjp0I_okX0w
Ease up, Tony... It was the 70s and we were pretty green.
And I detested Wendy, Marvin & those Wonder Twins, too.
Yeah, I saw this about 2 years ago at a comic con and I've loved it ever since.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -