ERIC SERRA'S GOLDENEYE SCORE

iommi

I have noticed that people often comment on the score for this film in both positive but more so negative ways. Just wondering what people on this forum had to say about it, because it certainly is an anomoly amongst bond scores.
Eric Serra's decision to stear away from the big larger that life sounds of John Barry was controversial amongst Bond fans, however I find the score impressive, fresh and it works tremendously wekll with the movie. The industrial sounds (clanging etc) work wonderfully and the music in the casino is really romantic. Perhaps he overdoes it with the keyboards, particulary on the tank chase part. And the song Serra wrote fr the end of the movie is pretty lame but all in all I think its a great score. It really emphasised the darker and bleak tone of the film, and I think a lush orchastrated musical score would have taken something away from it. I was happy they brought the "big" sound back after this with David Arnold, but for this it works and it may be the way to go for CR as well. The is a distinct lack of the actual Bond them though. Apart from that its ace.
I'd love to hear the 007 theme brought back

Alex

I'm moving your topic to the appropriate forum, but welcome aboard, iommi.

The Cat

Well, before this gets moved or closed (as there sohuld be numerous threads about this already)...

GoldenEye is the work of a tired and bored composer, whose subpar work was patched up by additional composers. No spotting, no concept, mismatched tracks, cues that are tracked FOUR times (ho-hum) a limited effect-library already used up for Leon and worst of all - 40 percent of the score is electric ambient music! The only thing sure is that EON will never go the same route again since everybody hated a result - Michael, Babs, Martin and even Eric. Cheap, tired, uninspired - continue the lione with a dozen similar adjectives.

P.S. The 007 Theme will never return for numerous reasons.

EDIT: It got moved while I was typing! Quick and slick job.

Alex

The Cat wrote:

EDIT: It got moved while I was typing! Quick and slick job.

Danke, did you have a nice flight?

iommi

P.S. The 007 Theme will never return for numerous reasons.


what reasons are these?

The Cat

The 007 Theme is an original composition of John Barry. In order to use the theme, EON not only would be forced to give Barry credit, but to pay him like they do with Monty Norman for his JB Theme - they won't do that. Of course another reason is that the 007 Theme has no more place in the Bond movies. The 007 Theme is basically the music Barry used and re-used when he was running out of time and still had many cues to rewrite. It's simple, almost primitive, can be extended to infinite length with little or no variation and you don't have to worry about spotting. It simply doesn't fit the movies any more.

iommi

The Cat wrote:

The 007 Theme is an original composition of John Barry. In order to use the theme, EON not only would be forced to give Barry credit, but to pay him like they do with Monty Norman for his JB Theme - they won't do that. Of course another reason is that the 007 Theme has no more place in the Bond movies. The 007 Theme is basically the music Barry used and re-used when he was running out of time and still had many cues to rewrite. It's simple, almost primitive, can be extended to infinite length with little or no variation and you don't have to worry about spotting. It simply doesn't fit the movies any more.

I disagree. The 007 theme is used when Barry is running out of time? Cannnot this be said of the james bond theme? I think it can fit th movies, though perhaps not all. As much as I disliked the cliff hanging scene in Die Another Day, I can imagine the 007 theme being played as Bond skies away.
Of course I am not suggesting that it be used in every episode, but here and there would I feel add an element of continuity to the series.

The Cat

Not exactly. Basically Barry was told when to use the James Bond Theme - the general instructions were "as much as possible" and "when you feel like it", but there were specific instances when Barry was forced to change his original composition. For instance when he meets Bambi and Thumper, that was on the wish of Guy Hamilton - Barry had to scrap his original idea which was a resurrection of the main title theme. BUT the James Bond Theme always needs re-recording and re-re-recording and is a bit harder to edit. Simply put it could be used for anything, but there are actually very few subsequent recordings that contain all the original building blocks of the first arrangement. (vamp-riff(s)-bridge-coda)

The 007 Theme is much easier to compose and it is a darling of music editors since it can be looped infinately. Look at the gypsy fight scene in FRWL. I mean listen to it. Is it the 007 Theme? Oh no... It's a looping of one specific section of the 007 Theme! The first half of the composition is the repetition of the same 5 second footage - you can tell by the fact that there is no underlying brass! This part is 0:45-0:51 from the soundtrack, occasionally interlaced with 0:51-0:58 (this a high and a low bridge section). The second half of this specific cue heard in the movie is taken from the second half of the track, roughly 8 seconds are repeated from somewehere around the 1:30-2:00 area. In conclusion, the final cue as heard in the movie is around 2 minutes, but is a actually edited together from 20-30 seconds of material!

So what's the case of Thunderball? How would you underscore half-hour of underwater footaget in less than 2 days? Well, Barry's original idea was to use the fight motive as heard in Chateau Flight. You can hear what he intended if you have the DVD (not the VHS) and go to the part when Largo first faces Largo as a SPECTRE diver underwater, than escapes. That sounds like Chateau Flight (actually, it IS Chateau Flight with a new coda mixed out from the previously recorded underwater cues). The rest is naturally eaten up by the 007 Theme. Over 15 minutes of the same music - and that doesn't include the unreleased bits. Still this is my favourite because instead of unending repetition, Barry puts original material composed only for Thunderball on the rhytmic basis prvided by the 007 Theme. With the help of the Bolero-like composition of gradually adding more instruments, he manages to evoke a thrilling conclusion, which the other instances are usually deprived of, thanks to the musical editors.

What about Street Chase you ask? Well, Barry's original composition was based on Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (and what a composition it was), but he was told to replace it with something else after the song was scrapped. The result is Street Chase - and more 007 Theme, which was actually the last cue mixed into the film.

Unfortunately I can't tell the story behind the Oil Rig Battle - that's a nasty one and was one of the reasons Barry skipped LALD. The theme retired in 1979 - and Barry didn't have intention to resurrect it and sa far as I know, Arnold doesn't want to do it either unless EON asks him to do - which they won't. Let the dead in peace - even Barry acknowledged that the 007 Theme was only working in the Connery-era and regretted using it in MR.

Of course the REAL genius of Barry is that you simply don't notice things like this. Perhaps it's even better when you're not familiar with these things as it may effect your enjoyment of the wonderful world of James Bond music.

P.S. Funny you should mention the cliffhanging in DAD. Long before the release, some "insider" claimed that Arnold wants to use the 007 Theme and when the movie was released, it was claimed he wrot it for that scene but was forced to withdraw it. Naturally this was just some made-up fan rumor, but some people took it seriously and claim Arnold's 007 Theme composition as a fact. Don't let be fooled by rumors.

iommi

The theme retired in 1979 - and Barry didn't have intention to resurrect it and sa far as I know, Arnold doesn't want to do it either unless EON asks him to do - which they won't.

P.S. Funny you should mention the cliffhanging in DAD. Long before the release, some "insider" claimed that Arnold wants to use the 007 Theme and when the movie was released, it was claimed he wrot it for that scene but was forced to withdraw it.

You mention Arnold dosn'nt want to use it, then you go on to say that he recorded a version of it.
I especially thought it would have been suitable for the cliff scene, in particular because DAD was the 20th instalment, and because they tried making it with references to past Bond pictures, why not do it with the music too.
What do you personaly feel about how that scene would have been had the 007 theme been included?

I disagree with Barry himself if he did say he shouldn't have used it in Moonraker. I thought the slower paced version worked remarkably well.
I didn't however feel that it worked at the end of DAF in any way. Perhaps this suggests that it does not mean that the 007 theme only suits the Connery films, it means that it needs to be used correctly and appropriately.

The Cat

iommi wrote:

You mention Arnold dosn'nt want to use it, then you go on to say that he recorded a version of it.

I said he DIDN'T. People believe he did, but no, he didn't. That's just how rumors work. 8-)

I especially thought it would have been suitable for the cliff scene, in particular because DAD was the 20th instalment, and because they tried making it with references to past Bond pictures, why not do it with the music too.

Well, there are roughly over a dozen musical references in Die Another Day, which I think is more than enough. 007 Theme would have been way too much and it would have cost them... MONEY!

What do you personaly feel about how that scene would have been had the 007 theme been included?

Well, as you can see I'm not particuarly a fan of the theme. I didn't like it in Moonraker either and can not possibly picture any scene in todays's movies that could carry the theme with itself. I have modern techno versions of the Theme (NOT by Arnold ) and they don't work with anything at all. Plus Whiteout is a modern masterpiece.

I disagree with Barry himself if he did say he shouldn't have used it in Moonraker. I thought the slower paced version worked remarkably well.
I didn't however feel that it worked at the end of DAF in any way. Perhaps this suggests that it does not mean that the 007 theme only suits the Connery films, it means that it needs to be used correctly and appropriately.

Of course, that's all a matter of opinions. I personally don't like the Moonraker version as it slows down a sequence that is uninspiring already. And I'm not going to argue with Barry - not on this account.

spectre7

Eric Serra's GoldenEye is not only the worst Bond score, it is also one of the worst scores composed for any film. While GoldenEye isn't the greatest film of the series by any means (it is in fact the most overpraised), it would have been a lot more tolerable with a better score.

The Cat

Oh yes, the original topic. If I remember correctly, the score to GoldenEye won an "award" for being bad too, though I'll have to consult my notes on that one.

RJJB

The Goldeneye score fit the movie well. What it doesn't possess is the ability to be enjoyed on its own, as any great soundtrack should. It fulfills its purpose by supporting the action of the movie, but it can not stand alone.

And the less said about "The Experience of Love", the better. The movie vocal piece of the entire series.

evilhenchman

I agree that the score is fitting to the film and support the more dark and atmospheric approach over Barry's epic feel specifically for Goldeneye. There are two songs I really like form it and I actually listen to independently from the movie. The first is Run, Shoot And Jump(I only got the score to listen to this track) the song they lay when Bond fights the Russians in the archives and when he and Alec face off in the end. The second is Whispering Statues, the song that is played when bond discovers that Alec is Janus. Those two tracks were excellent and dramatic and suite the film more than well.

trs007

When you hear a score, that makes Legrand's NSNA seem enjoyable, you've got a problem. Eric Serra was the worst thing to ever happen to the official film series scores. It is no wonder bits of the action were redone, and that ending song---such a horrible piece of crap--GE remains the only Bond to this day that I won't watch the end credits, or at the very least--mute the sound.

Sweepy the Cat

trs007 wrote:

When you hear a score, that makes Legrand's NSNA seem enjoyable, you've got a problem. Eric Serra was the worst thing to ever happen to the official film series scores. It is no wonder bits of the action were redone, and that ending song---such a horrible piece of crap--GE remains the only Bond to this day that I won't watch the end credits, or at the very least--mute the sound.

I actually found thescore from NSNA to be quite catchy but I agree with you about GE's.

frostbitten

Actually, I quite like some parts of this score, especially the music in the casino scene. Does anyone know the name of that track, and how I can get it without buying the whole soundtrack?

The Cat

No we don't. And don't check your emails.

Barbel

But do read your PMs!

frostbitten

Thanks, Cat and Barbel, for your help.

You two are really the authorities when it comes to James Bond music.

Barbel

frostbitten wrote:

You two are really the authorities when it comes to James Bond music.

Kind words, frostbitten, thank you.