The only thing I have a slight disagreement with you on is best Bond. I have Dalton at #1 and Connery at #2. {[]
I typically register Connery as the best out of respect for what he did, the skill with which he played the role, and the impact he had in setting the standard. However, I register him as #1 with the caveat that Dalton is my favorite Bond to date.
let's all sip a vodka martini and relax. I too belong to the Pro-Dalton crowd (as you can ascertain, if you check my posts earlier in this thread and throughout the forum); JennyFlexFan is a member of the opposing party and his opinions are -- how shall I put it? -- highly contentious. But they are very civilly put, and from what I've read in other threads, well-meant.
In other words, he is not the enemy and there's no need to douse him in gasoline and light him up).
Dalton made a great Bond because he took a deliberate and difficult decision. It's in the nature of such decisions that they will be loved by some and hated by others, and I'm sure the makers of LTK realised they were taking a risk.
They get my vote, and I'm glad to see that many here feel the same way I do.
But the fact that the film is not unanimously liked also confirms that it was a courageous step, it took Bond in a new and risky direction.
I have no quarrel with you HP. But it seems to me that JFF is trying to start a useless flamewar because he/she doesn't like Tim Dalton. If JFF doesn't like Dalton, fine. But don't post a long diatribe which makes little sense and proves nothing to make the point.
I could post such irrelevant tripe against Connery, Moore, and God forbid!, Pierce Brosnan for some of their films. I don't because it doesn't do any good, and I don't think any of them were bad in the role. Lazenby was unique in that he only played it once, but it's a masterpiece, even if it's underrated by general movie fans. Dalton did two masterpieces that only hardcore 007 and Ian Fleming fans seem to appreciate.
What just makes me go Grrrrr.... is that LTK is dismissed as a second rate Bond film when, next to OHMSS, it's probably the most faithful to Ian Fleming's idea of who and what Bond is.
let's all sip a vodka martini and relax. I too belong to the Pro-Dalton crowd (as you can ascertain, if you check my posts earlier in this thread and throughout the forum); JennyFlexFan is a member of the opposing party and his opinions are -- how shall I put it? -- highly contentious. But they are very civilly put, and from what I've read in other threads, well-meant.
In other words, he is not the enemy and there's no need to douse him in gasoline and light him up).
Dalton made a great Bond because he took a deliberate and difficult decision. It's in the nature of such decisions that they will be loved by some and hated by others, and I'm sure the makers of LTK realised they were taking a risk.
They get my vote, and I'm glad to see that many here feel the same way I do.
But the fact that the film is not unanimously liked also confirms that it was a courageous step, it took Bond in a new and risky direction.
I have no quarrel with you HP. But it seems to me that JFF is trying to start a useless flamewar because he/she doesn't like Tim Dalton. If JFF doesn't like Dalton, fine. But don't post a long diatribe which makes little sense and proves nothing to make the point.
I could post such irrelevant tripe against Connery, Moore, and God forbid!, Pierce Brosnan for some of their films. I don't because it doesn't do any good, and I don't think any of them were bad in the role. Lazenby was unique in that he only played it once, but it's a masterpiece, even if it's underrated by general movie fans. Dalton did two masterpieces that only hardcore 007 and Ian Fleming fans seem to appreciate.
What just makes me go Grrrrr.... is that LTK is dismissed as a second rate Bond film when, next to OHMSS, it's probably the most faithful to Ian Fleming's idea of who and what Bond is.
You people are more die-hard LTK fans than I am with AVTAK! My, my, my... I'm entitled to my own opinion Acerimmer as you are with yours so don't start FREAKING OUT if I happen to dislike Dalton's Bond and by the way Klaus Hergerscheimer, you're right, I haven't read the Bond novels, but I read another review of LTK saying that Fleming's Bond doesn't do well on screen because he's a cold, heartless killer and pretty much a jerk which is the way Dalton portrayed him and I didn't like his portrayal and I'm not trying to start a "flamewar", I'm just stating my opinion that LTK is a sucky Bond movie, is that okay? I'm entitled to my own opinion, aren't I just as you are yours? Apparently not, and my opinions are civilly put and well meant but like Harry Palmer said "don't douse me in gasoline and light me up" (ala Sanchez). I mean come on, is it worth getting upset over someone's opinion? NO! So I hate Dalton, you love Dalton. Opinions. That's what makes life interesting. Would you like it if we were all conformist and loved LTK? Or everyone loved AVTAK? I'd hate it if everyone loved AVTAK because what use would I be, I wouldn't be famous without my tirades and die-hard defense of the movie! I'd just be saying I love it like everyone else but I love it and not many others do so I'm stating my opinion[\b]. IT'S JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
let's all sip a vodka martini and relax. I too belong to the Pro-Dalton crowd (as you can ascertain, if you check my posts earlier in this thread and throughout the forum); JennyFlexFan is a member of the opposing party and his opinions are -- how shall I put it? -- highly contentious. But they are very civilly put, and from what I've read in other threads, well-meant.
In other words, he is not the enemy and there's no need to douse him in gasoline and light him up).
Dalton made a great Bond because he took a deliberate and difficult decision. It's in the nature of such decisions that they will be loved by some and hated by others, and I'm sure the makers of LTK realised they were taking a risk.
They get my vote, and I'm glad to see that many here feel the same way I do.
But the fact that the film is not unanimously liked also confirms that it was a courageous step, it took Bond in a new and risky direction.
I have no quarrel with you HP. But it seems to me that JFF is trying to start a useless flamewar because he/she doesn't like Tim Dalton. If JFF doesn't like Dalton, fine. But don't post a long diatribe which makes little sense and proves nothing to make the point.
I could post such irrelevant tripe against Connery, Moore, and God forbid!, Pierce Brosnan for some of their films. I don't because it doesn't do any good, and I don't think any of them were bad in the role. Lazenby was unique in that he only played it once, but it's a masterpiece, even if it's underrated by general movie fans. Dalton did two masterpieces that only hardcore 007 and Ian Fleming fans seem to appreciate.
What just makes me go Grrrrr.... is that LTK is dismissed as a second rate Bond film when, next to OHMSS, it's probably the most faithful to Ian Fleming's idea of who and what Bond is.
You people are more die-hard LTK fans than I am with AVTAK! My, my, my... I'm entitled to my own opinion Acerimmer as you are with yours so don't start FREAKING OUT if I happen to dislike Dalton's Bond and by the way Klaus Hergerscheimer, you're right, I haven't read the Bond novels, but I read another review of LTK saying that Fleming's Bond doesn't do well on screen because he's a cold, heartless killer and pretty much a jerk which is the way Dalton portrayed him and I didn't like his portrayal and I'm not trying to start a "flamewar", I'm just stating my opinion that LTK is a sucky Bond movie, is that okay? I'm entitled to my own opinion, aren't I just as you are yours? Apparently not, and my opinions are civilly put and well meant but like Harry Palmer said "don't douse me in gasoline and light me up" (ala Sanchez). I mean come on, is it worth getting upset over someone's opinion? NO! So I hate Dalton, you love Dalton. Opinions. That's what makes life interesting. Would you like it if we were all conformist and loved LTK? Or everyone loved AVTAK? I'd hate it if everyone loved AVTAK because what use would I be, I wouldn't be famous without my tirades and die-hard defense of the movie! I'd just be saying I love it like everyone else but I love it and not many others do so I'm stating my opinion[\b]. IT'S JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!
I wasn't trying to be insulting: I just said that I THINK you are off-base in some of your criticisms. (And I did say it was my opinion: I wasn't imposing my opinions on you)
BTW, you didn't address my bringing up of the precedence within the film franchise for Dalton's portrayal.
As for the guy who said Fleming's Bond doesn't do well on film... it may not be the biggest box office drawer at times, but that is not to say that it isn't transferred into a quality work on film. Part of the reason why it hasn't gained great popularity in comparison to the more "larger than life" portrayals is because the larger than life portrayals are what the audience have come to expect. After a standard lasting for 14 films, it is pretty hard to go in a different direction and have a lot of success at the box office.
everybody should just chill out and relax and realize all that built-up anger is just cause both dalton and moore are afraid of Lazenby> {[]!! i would pay good money to see moore v. dalton v. lazenby in a cage match how about you?
everybody should just chill out and relax and realize all that built-up anger is just cause both dalton and moore are afraid of Lazenby> {[]!! i would pay good money to see moore v. dalton v. lazenby in a cage match how about you?
Moore would go down pretty quickly because he's a skinny wuss.
Lazenby is pretty strong and tough, but Dalton is a relentless bloke. I'll take the spirited Dalton over the gifted Lazenby.
I apologize for my cranky reply, which was going to be followed by an even crankier response(which was wiped out by the moodswings of the server running this site) to your rebuttal. But a steel cage match of Dalton, Lazenby, and Moore would be fun to watch. Believe it or not, my money's on Lazenby.-{
well there's always a chance moore could cheat and bring a cane. which brings me to another point about canes. is it me or does it seem to to anyone else that connery seems like the type of old man who would sit in a park and trip young kids with his cane just for ****s and giggles? |)
1. Timothy Dalton as James Bond: One of my biggest problems with this film and "The Living Daylights" is this man playing Bond. He just doesn't cut it: Connery, Moore, and even LAZENBY before him were witty and funny as well as being determined secret agents. Now Timothy Dalton is stiff, cold-blooded, sadistic, and almost evil in this movie and humorless. This man is the worst James Bond to date, he's cold, humorless and doesn't even try to be funny. This is one of my biggest problems with the movie.
2. The Villains (Sanchez, Milton Krest, Killifer, Dario, Heller, Prof. Joe, Truman-Lodge) In this wide-array of henchman, you'd think there would be a plus side. There isn't, these are all the worst villains of all time. Franz Sanchez, measly South American druglord. This is the stereotypical 1980s-cocaine smuggling "let's kill the druglord" movie than Bond. They're the worst-written and aren't unique in any way shape or form (like Auric Goldfinger, Max Zorin, Hugo Drax, Alec Trevelyan, Ernst Stavro Blofeld...) larger than life, psychotic, completely unique villains with unique henchman as well! (Oddjob, May Day, Jaws, Xenia Onatopp, Helga Brandt, Irma Bunt) but these villains are average and could be found anywhere (Heller, Truman-Lodge, Dario, and Killifer could be found anywhere, Professor Joe and Krest are a little more interesting but screen time is cut short to the most gruesome death in the Bond series and Joe's screen time is limited as well). Sanchez is my other beef with the film, he's menacing but is merely a small time crook and is not worth going after. I hate him.
3. The plot - Bond's adventures are usually a bit over-the-top and always involve saving the world. Not here. Here we have Bond taking down small time crook Sanchez because he tried to kill Felix Leiter. So, he never had a need to go after Sanchez before but because of Leiter, Dalton gets meaner than he already is and QUITS THE SECRET SERVICE. That's right, quits. In a pointless act of defiance, Bond quits to avenge Leiter and leaves us all not rooting for him or for anybody for the rest of this trainwreck (sorry, I mean film). I'll have to give it to the film, the precredits is mildly exciting but for the rest of the film it's dull-dull-dull. This is meant to be tackled by the US Narcotics Board, not MI6, or the Chinese Narcotics Board (why on earth are the Chinese there in the FIRST PLACE?)
4. The girls - These I actually don't mind (and no, this is not a chauvinistic post on how these women are just lookers). Pam Bouvier is underappreciated (and not the most attractive) because she is probably the most equal to Bond of any woman (because no one saw this film people talk of Wai Lin and putrid Jinx). The woman definitely out-Bond's Bond most of the time, shoots Dario, carries a shotgun, and kicks serious ass. Lupe is okay but I won't waste my time there.
5. The Budget - Probably one of my biggest problems with the film is that I could make it. The money was obviously spent on the precredits sequence.
Dr. No: $1 Million Dollars
A View to a Kill: $30 Million Dollars
Licence to Kill: $12 Dollars
Getting a new Bond to replace putrid Dalton: Priceless
Exactly. This film is so cheap, it's not funny. TLD showed the money onscreen and I could make this movie in my backyard (and I'd get a better cast too). Get this everyone we get a fight scene of course but not just any fight scene... a fight scene in a SLEAZY BAR! Oh, I'm crying by now and I'm sure everyone else is too because we don't get any flashy sports cars in these films, instead we get Tanker Trucks for the finale chase scene/fight scene which seems to go on forever. They really cheaped out with having it being set in South America, getting Bond away from MI6 and using sets from a cancelled FOX TV show. How cheap can you get? Thankfully, next time we'll get a big budget Bond film, the best in the series, GoldenEye.
6. The violence factor - I'm all for action, sometimes bloody deaths, but these are unnecessary. This is the only Bond film to get a 15 over in Europe and it's NOT BOND. Bond has never been the cold-blooded killer type or rugged, ruthless action man. Here are some of the deaths that were UNNECESSARY.
1. The death of Milton Krest: Though unique, this death is probably what earned the film its rating. Sanchez, outraged that Krest is allegedly ripping him off, throws him into a random decompression chamber, cranks up the pressure and cuts the hose so his head can explode. Bloody and unnecessary, plus Sanchez thought that out pretty quickly.
2. The death of Heller: Despite being a crappy villain, Heller is likeable in my eyes and though annoying Bond is right in that Heller is ripping Sanchez off, he pays for it by being impaled on a forklift. Okay, Heller can get impaled on a forklift but what was the use of it randomly driving into the room Pam and Bond were in? It makes no sense.
3. The death of Dario: "You're dead!" "You took the words right outta my mouth!" Good dialogue there, Pam shoots Dario a few times, causing him to lose his balance and falls into the cocaine shredder, getting his legs chopped to bits in the process and having his mangled flesh and blood fly at the camera. Ewww, gross and unnecessary.
This violence is not needed, plus it isn't very Bond-ish. Bond is not about gruesome deaths, he kills when necessary and I don't believe he enjoys it when Dalton seems to almost enjoy the deaths and here's Heller's little witticism.
Pam: Oh my God! It's Heller!
Bond: (stiff as a plank of wood) Yeah, he came to a dead end. Because "He got the point" was already used in Thunderball and it was delivered better by Sean Connery, it worked there so they had to come up with a second-rate "He got the point".
So there you have it, a long list of why LTK is one of the worst Bond films ever. With all these negatives, the only thing positive is Q gets a little more screen time and Pam is a good Bond girl.
I totally agree Roger Moore said that the later bond films went to far ie this one.I did not enjoy this one at all i could not warm up to Dalton unlike the others and also its sleazy Dalton is not good at getting one liners of as well i have watched this a few times and still dont enjoy it.
I'm one of the pro-Dalton crowd. TLD was a breath of fresh air. It was great to have a Bond who didn't look like he needed a stunt double to do the scenes of him getting in and out of a car. One of Dalton's greates strengths in the role was the fact he looked like a killer. Something he shares with Craig. I could picture TD doing CR.
On the subject of LTK I find it a movie of two halves - pre Isthmus City and post Isthmus City. The pre portion is great mainly because most of it is lifted from the Live And Let Die novel.
After Bond arrives in Isthmus it seems to flag until the tanker chase.
Robert Davi makes a great main villian, and Anthony Zerbe was good as Krest but the rest are a faily forgettable bunch.
I'm one of the pro-Dalton crowd. TLD was a breath of fresh air. It was great to have a Bond who didn't look like he needed a stunt double to do the scenes of him getting in and out of a car. One of Dalton's greates strengths in the role was the fact he looked like a killer. Something he shares with Craig. I could picture TD doing CR.
On the subject of LTK I find it a movie of two halves - pre Isthmus City and post Isthmus City. The pre portion is great mainly because most of it is lifted from the Live And Let Die novel.
After Bond arrives in Isthmus it seems to flag until the tanker chase.
Robert Davi makes a great main villian, and Anthony Zerbe was good as Krest but the rest are a faily forgettable bunch.
hi it has some great scenes like the tanker chase and the villan's demise is good but like you said it seems to flag at times but i liked TLD as it goes with the original Bond films
Comments
I typically register Connery as the best out of respect for what he did, the skill with which he played the role, and the impact he had in setting the standard. However, I register him as #1 with the caveat that Dalton is my favorite Bond to date.
I have no quarrel with you HP. But it seems to me that JFF is trying to start a useless flamewar because he/she doesn't like Tim Dalton. If JFF doesn't like Dalton, fine. But don't post a long diatribe which makes little sense and proves nothing to make the point.
I could post such irrelevant tripe against Connery, Moore, and God forbid!, Pierce Brosnan for some of their films. I don't because it doesn't do any good, and I don't think any of them were bad in the role. Lazenby was unique in that he only played it once, but it's a masterpiece, even if it's underrated by general movie fans. Dalton did two masterpieces that only hardcore 007 and Ian Fleming fans seem to appreciate.
What just makes me go Grrrrr.... is that LTK is dismissed as a second rate Bond film when, next to OHMSS, it's probably the most faithful to Ian Fleming's idea of who and what Bond is.
You people are more die-hard LTK fans than I am with AVTAK! My, my, my... I'm entitled to my own opinion Acerimmer as you are with yours so don't start FREAKING OUT if I happen to dislike Dalton's Bond and by the way Klaus Hergerscheimer, you're right, I haven't read the Bond novels, but I read another review of LTK saying that Fleming's Bond doesn't do well on screen because he's a cold, heartless killer and pretty much a jerk which is the way Dalton portrayed him and I didn't like his portrayal and I'm not trying to start a "flamewar", I'm just stating my opinion that LTK is a sucky Bond movie, is that okay? I'm entitled to my own opinion, aren't I just as you are yours? Apparently not, and my opinions are civilly put and well meant but like Harry Palmer said "don't douse me in gasoline and light me up" (ala Sanchez). I mean come on, is it worth getting upset over someone's opinion? NO! So I hate Dalton, you love Dalton. Opinions. That's what makes life interesting. Would you like it if we were all conformist and loved LTK? Or everyone loved AVTAK? I'd hate it if everyone loved AVTAK because what use would I be, I wouldn't be famous without my tirades and die-hard defense of the movie! I'd just be saying I love it like everyone else but I love it and not many others do so I'm stating my opinion[\b]. IT'S JUST MY OPINION!!!!!!!!!!
What use are you now?
P.S. Remember the time I made that post with every smilie? I have to track that down someday...
I wasn't trying to be insulting: I just said that I THINK you are off-base in some of your criticisms. (And I did say it was my opinion: I wasn't imposing my opinions on you)
BTW, you didn't address my bringing up of the precedence within the film franchise for Dalton's portrayal.
As for the guy who said Fleming's Bond doesn't do well on film... it may not be the biggest box office drawer at times, but that is not to say that it isn't transferred into a quality work on film. Part of the reason why it hasn't gained great popularity in comparison to the more "larger than life" portrayals is because the larger than life portrayals are what the audience have come to expect. After a standard lasting for 14 films, it is pretty hard to go in a different direction and have a lot of success at the box office.
Moore would go down pretty quickly because he's a skinny wuss.
Lazenby is pretty strong and tough, but Dalton is a relentless bloke. I'll take the spirited Dalton over the gifted Lazenby.
On the subject of LTK I find it a movie of two halves - pre Isthmus City and post Isthmus City. The pre portion is great mainly because most of it is lifted from the Live And Let Die novel.
After Bond arrives in Isthmus it seems to flag until the tanker chase.
Robert Davi makes a great main villian, and Anthony Zerbe was good as Krest but the rest are a faily forgettable bunch.
On the subject of LTK I find it a movie of two halves - pre Isthmus City and post Isthmus City. The pre portion is great mainly because most of it is lifted from the Live And Let Die novel.
After Bond arrives in Isthmus it seems to flag until the tanker chase.
Robert Davi makes a great main villian, and Anthony Zerbe was good as Krest but the rest are a faily forgettable bunch.