Never Say McClory Again

Napoleon Plural

This is the pet project of Blofeld's Cat, not to be confused with ajb regular, The Cat.

He's taken Never Say Never Again and redubbed the soundtrack with traditional Bond tunes, mainly John Barry of course.

What do you think of it? Here's the link:


http://neversaymccloryagain.ohmss-007.com/

Personally I think it's very interesting, though slightly akin to polishing a turd, as NSNA is a pretty bad film by any reckoning. I'd rather see him take on FYEO, which has loud, brash music out of keeping a more mature Moore. Others would no doubt prefer him to tackle GE.

Which clips do you think work best?

Golrush007

Well first I must say that I have never seen the original version of NSNA. I have watched the first three clips on the site, and have been fairly impressed. The Nigel Small-Fawcett scene is rather silly though. The music is well edited into the film. ALthough, if music from different films is used it won't be all that coherant in terms of musical themes/styles etc. However, I'm sure simply having the Bond theme helps the cause. Will check out the other clips when I have time.

TonyDP

Golrush007 wrote:

Well first I must say that I have never seen the original version of NSNA. I have watched the first three clips on the site, and have been fairly impressed. The Nigel Small-Fawcett scene is rather silly though. The music is well edited into the film. ALthough, if music from different films is used it won't be all that coherant in terms of musical themes/styles etc. However, I'm sure simply having the Bond theme helps the cause. Will check out the other clips when I have time.

Believe me, you should consider yourself lucky that you've never been subjected to Michel Legrand's musical (and I use that term loosely) score for NSNA. A 2 hour chorus of gregorian chants would make for a better score than that ear shattering cacophany.

Golrush007

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!! Still I'd like to see the film in its original version, just to say I've done it!

The Cat

Golrush007 wrote:

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!!

Since it has the worst musical mix in a Bond movie ever, 60% of Legrand's compositions were rejected or used at completely random places, you can't blame the old man entirely. It took a whole team of trained monkeys to commit this musical massacre.

TonyDP

Golrush007 wrote:

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!! Still I'd like to see the film in its original version, just to say I've done it!

Being the completists that we are, my brother and I own the NSNA DVD (I think we got it for $9). It is fun to pop it in every now and then and marvel at just how bad this movie is. The screenplay was written by Lorenzo Semple, Jr. who wrote a lot of the episodes for the campy Batman TV series from the 1960's.

And yes, the soundtrack is that bad. It's all over the place; one minute your ears are assualted with blaring horns, then it's a goofy jazz piece complete with requisite walking bass solo during a car chase, then more brass, and then some sickly sweet French song as Domino looks away, mystified.

0064

The Cat wrote:

Golrush007 wrote:

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!!

Since it has the worst musical mix in a Bond movie ever, 60% of Legrand's compositions were rejected or used at completely random places, you can't blame the old man entirely. It took a whole team of trained monkeys to commit this musical massacre.

AHHHHH...:(|) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |)

They are taking over. That is why I don't watch thismovie. It doesn't have a Bond feel as well as the Bond theme or the gunbarrell.

JennyFlexFan

0064 wrote:

The Cat wrote:

Golrush007 wrote:

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!!

Since it has the worst musical mix in a Bond movie ever, 60% of Legrand's compositions were rejected or used at completely random places, you can't blame the old man entirely. It took a whole team of trained monkeys to commit this musical massacre.

AHHHHH...:(|) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |)

They are taking over. That is why I don't watch thismovie. It doesn't have a Bond feel as well as the Bond theme or the gunbarrell.

NO! Never Say Never Again is a good Bond movie, it has a good theme song, an okay Bond girl, a great villain, a great (and sexy) henchwoman, and an ok score. It's hugely underrated and I believe it's better than the massively overrated Thunderball with its fat, boring villain, it's overrated (kind of sexy) henchwoman, its score, it's bad song, and slowness. It's my 7th favorite Bond movie compared to Thunderball at number 16!

JennyFlexFan

JennyFlexFan wrote:

0064 wrote:

The Cat wrote:

Golrush007 wrote:

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!!

Since it has the worst musical mix in a Bond movie ever, 60% of Legrand's compositions were rejected or used at completely random places, you can't blame the old man entirely. It took a whole team of trained monkeys to commit this musical massacre.

AHHHHH...:(|) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |)

They are taking over. That is why I don't watch thismovie. It doesn't have a Bond feel as well as the Bond theme or the gunbarrell.

NO! Never Say Never Again is a good Bond movie, it has a good theme song, an okay Bond girl, a great villain, a great (and sexy) henchwoman, and an ok score. It's hugely underrated and I believe it's better than the massively overrated Thunderball with its fat, boring villain, it's overrated (kind of sexy) henchwoman, its score, it's bad song, and slowness. It's my 7th favorite Bond movie compared to Thunderball at number 17, plus NSNA is a cooler title. But, the score done at NSMA is very well done and I commend their efforts except in a few places such as taking away Lani Hall's song.

Barry Nelson

NSNA is terrible, Bond is way too old, Leiter is boring, the henchwoman overacts more than any Bond character I have ever seen. The villian is fine and Domino is fine. The music is bad and overall not in the class of any official Bond movie. TB is one of the great Bond movies of all time. No comparing the two.

JennyFlexFan

TB is boring as watching paint dry in my opinion and I actually think this Leiter is one of the more competent ones they've had!

TonyDP

0064 wrote:

The Cat wrote:

Golrush007 wrote:

So even a mixed up score consisting of bits and pieces of other scores is better than the original??? It must be bad!!

Since it has the worst musical mix in a Bond movie ever, 60% of Legrand's compositions were rejected or used at completely random places, you can't blame the old man entirely. It took a whole team of trained monkeys to commit this musical massacre.

AHHHHH...:(|) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |) |)

They are taking over. That is why I don't watch thismovie. It doesn't have a Bond feel as well as the Bond theme or the gunbarrell.

There's an old saying; give an unlimited number of monkeys an unlimited number of time and eventually they'll duplicate the complete works of Shakespeare.

As for NSNA, I give it 5 monkeys and 15 minutes.

|) |) |) |) |)

DAWUSS

I think I've seen this here before... From way back when.

Napoleon Plural

Hey guys, this isn't to debate the merits or otherwise of NSNA - I've agreed that it's not a great movie, and it's been discussed on another thread... we're here to discuss Blofeld Cat's musical adaptations... please keep on topic.

TonyDP

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Hey guys, this isn't to debate the merits or otherwise of NSNA - I've agreed that it's not a great movie, and it's been discussed on another thread... we're here to discuss Blofeld Cat's musical adaptations... please keep on topic.

Apologies, you're absolutely right; I'm especially guilty of hijacking this thread.

I checked out the musical adaptations. While they were technically very well done, my problem with them was that the themes were very recognizable and as I heard them, I couldn't help but think of those other movies (specifically MR and TSWLM) as I watched the clips.

Musical cues are a tricky thing since they can easily trigger other memories (in this case, the original movies the music came from). I wonder if a better approach would have been to use music from Thunderball since NSNA is essentially a remake of that movie or more generic pieces like the classic James Bond theme from Dr. No.

The Cat

Since you brought him up - James Horner was nothing but the tip of the iceberg. I seriously have no idea how (and why) they ended up with Michel after that thouroughout search.

But Blofeld's Cat's full version is incredibly well-done, there was only one instance - the horse chase - during which the movie was completely inappropriate.

emtiem

This DVD is a fantastic piece of work- some great choices in there, apart from the one Cat mentions. I'd add the pre-title in there as Dave Arnold shouldn't really be in there.
The prelude to the shark chase and sequence where Bond is seen outside Jack's window were the ones where shivers ran down my spine- sometimes it just feel so right.
It's hard to see it as a complete movie, however, as all of the music is so disparate; but as a collection of Bond scenes it's fantastic.

And although its negatives are well documented, I think it's worth remembering that NSNA has some of the best dialogue from the Bond series, plus its plot actually makes more sense than Thunderball- for those reasons alone I'd save it from the furnace!

Napoleon Plural

Well I agree that using the Barry scores can be distracting and sully memories of other movies. Barry's 60s Bond scores were as different to each other as Beatle albums, so the overall effect can be jarring...

I go along with the idea of using non-Bond music more often than not, but doubtless Blofeld's Cat would have considered that a hard sell to fans, compared with Barry Bond music.

The loading of the missiles, with music from OHMSS, is the one that works best imo. I'd also use the main OHMSS theme for the bike chase. The cutting of Bond 77 works very well here, but it doesn't seem vengeful enough for the scene... Maybe the boat chase music from TWINE would be better here, it's basically the same scene anyhow, as Bond goes after an assassin.

Otherwise, too many scenes bring out the nitpicker in me!
The pts, for instance, I would fix so it seems set at nighttime! (By simply turning the light down perhaps? Is that possible?) And maybe build it up with scenes from other films - could that be done? A shot of a helicopter flying over ahead could be cut into it? It would be more atmospheric - and in any case, I would use the Goldfinger pts music, which matches what Connery is up to in that scene.
Again, instead of disappointing establishing shots of Nice, why not use establishing shots from other films, such as The Transporter... could that work?

As for the credits, I can see why they used Bassey's History Repeating, but over here it's mainly used as background music to a travel show, or Graham Norton... it doesn't seem dynamic enough for a main theme. I'd certainly put it in there, mind, but perhaps so we hear it as Bond heads to the Bahamas, or maybe when Fatima Blush pursues Jack in his car to bump him off... -{

For the main theme I'd use Sneaker Pimps 6 Underground, or even Propellerheads' OHMSS, with clips from past Connery movies put in there. The pts is quite slow, so perhaps could do with a fast theme really, to make up for that. Or maybe Duran Duran's Come Undone even. B-)

Overall I admire what Blofeld's Cat had done, perhaps not enough to make a donation as it stands.

I'd almost think of doing an OHMSS hack job on it, starting the film with the exciting bike chase in Nice, then have a Connery voiceover explaining how he got into that situation with a flashback! That could work... )

blofeld04

Hello, creator of "Never Say McClory Again" here.

Napoleon Plural wrote:

I go along with the idea of using non-Bond music more often than not, but doubtless Blofeld's Cat would have considered that a hard sell to fans, compared with Barry Bond music.

Not only did I consider it a 'hard sell', my familiarity with similarly appropriate music is far too limited to entertain the idea in the first place.

The loading of the missiles, with music from OHMSS, is the one that works best imo. I'd also use the main OHMSS theme for the bike chase. The cutting of Bond 77 works very well here, but it doesn't seem vengeful enough for the scene...

I've been thinking about producing a purely John Barry music track as an extra audio option on the DVD but one of the stumbling blocks was the motorcycle chase scene. I have yet to find a cue that works as well as Bond 77. I will give the OHMSS main theme a shot and see if it works. Always open to suggestions.

...The pts, for instance, I would fix so it seems set at nighttime! (By simply turning the light down perhaps? Is that possible?) And maybe build it up with scenes from other films - could that be done? A shot of a helicopter flying over ahead could be cut into it? It would be more atmospheric - and in any case, I would use the Goldfinger pts music, which matches what Connery is up to in that scene...

You make some interesting observations. Never occurred to me to change the time of day. I think I've got a 'day for night' filter but not sure the result will work due to so many shots featuring sky (when shooting day-for-night, the golden rule is not to include sky in the shot).

You're suggestion for using "Bond Back In Action" from 'Goldfinger' is a great idea. I'm going to have a crack at that later today. I feel yet another recut of the pts coming on. Can't understand why I never thought of such an obvious choice.

...I'd almost think of doing an OHMSS hack job on it, starting the film with the exciting bike chase in Nice, then have a Connery voiceover explaining how he got into that situation with a flashback! That could work... )

All together now, "Oh no it wouldn't".

blofeld04

emtiem wrote:

This DVD is a fantastic piece of work- some great choices in there, apart from the one Cat mentions. I'd add the pre-title in there as Dave Arnold shouldn't really be in there.

Can't entirely disagree about the Arnold comment. The pre-title was the very first scene I recut way back in the days when there was no plans to expand the project beyond the one webclip.

Now that I've spent some time away from the project, I am slowly coming 'round to the idea of re-visiting it with a view to using John Barry music exlusively.

Napoleon Plural has suggested a replacement cue which I am going to try.

The prelude to the shark chase and sequence where Bond is seen outside Jack's window were the ones where shivers ran down my spine- sometimes it just feel so right.
It's hard to see it as a complete movie, however, as all of the music is so disparate; but as a collection of Bond scenes it's fantastic.

I guess there's no way that my alternative soundtrack could be anything but a collection of clips. But I'm glad that you and others have appreciated that it works most of the time.

The scene where Bond spies on Fatima and Jack at Shrublands incorporates music from three different films so it's amazing that the scene works as well as it does.

cheers.

blofeld04

FROSTY wrote:

I haven't seen Blofeld's Cat's version yet,
but somehow to me, I think that the Scoring may be a little "jarring",
as it might be difficult not to picture the previous Bond moments, where those pieces of music were originally used.

Not as jarring as you might initially think. But it's a big ask expecting listeners to put out of their minds all previous connotations. However, if the music fits, it doesn't take long to accept the new environment.

No matter what, I would still consider any re-edit that someone did of the film, as nothing more than a fun, novelty version - because I happen to like the film!!. {:)

That's exactly how I perceive it! NSMcA was never intended to supplant or replace the original. My version is firmly set in the realm of 'what if'.

cheers.

blofeld04

The Cat wrote:

But Blofeld's Cat's full version is incredibly well-done, there was only one instance - the horse chase - during which the movie was completely inappropriate.

Because I'd been working on the project for a couple of years, I think that I'd had a gutful of it by the time it came to do the horse chase scene (the last scene to be rescored) and the end result suffered as a result.

I'm open to suggestions for alternative music.

cheers.

blofeld04

Golrush007 wrote:

Well first I must say that I have never seen the original version of NSNA. I have watched the first three clips on the site, and have been fairly impressed. The Nigel Small-Fawcett scene is rather silly though...

The Nigel Small-Fawcett scene is generally regarded as silly - even without the addition of my music selections.

I strongly urge you to familiarise yourself with the original version before watching any more clips of NSMcA.

cheers.

Napoleon Plural

Hi Blofeld's Cat... I've been expecting you!

Nice of you to pop up and comment. Glad you like some of my suggestions... would it also be possible to use some of The Incredibles soundtrack? That has very Bondian sounding music (it's a pastiche, as you probably know) including one cue that sounds very Goldfinger-like (from GF's pts that is), yet would have the advantage of not putting you in mind of another Bond film but just create the atmosphere.

Also, would it in theory be possible to insert establishing shots from totally different films? That can build the film up in an interesting way.

There are other thing's I'd change to smooth things over, but of course NSNA is a problematic film, overall. For instance, I cringe when Fatima Blush talks about 'candy for baby' at Shrublands - but I'd guess this might be a turn-on for others... Myself I'd take the sound off and put, erm, I think it's a band that sampled Portishead, a recent girl band called 911 or something, over the soundtrack. Then speed it up at times, like in the C4 sitcom Green Wing (you won't have seen that) so it seems all creepy and mysterious, which goes along with Bond watching but not being able to hear it. It makes it a kind of Blue Velvet moment... [Edit: someone else has praised your version of this scene, but I haven't seen that clip, so maybe it's okay anyway ;% )

Maybe the Proprellerhead's OHMSS for the titles, the opening cuts in well with Bond getting shockingly knifed! Then how about using most of the OHMSS credits instead of TB? After all, it's got clips from all those Connery films... which never quite fitted in with Lazenby. Maybe you could chuck in a few clips from DAF in there, and one or two Bond-looking shots from Outland or A Bridge Too Far or something. The spinning clock would fit in well with the ageing theme of the first half of NSNA.

Would the 007 theme (used for the gypsy camp in FRWL and other scenes) work better on the horseback scene that others have commented on?

Another thing I'd do is get hold of Bond cover themes, there's a CD I bought years ago which had a remix of the space theme from DAF - the cover of the CD had Connery in his jetpack from TB (Beats by Dope Demand I think it was), it was very distinctive... That could fit in well with some missile heist where they go underwater etc... Again, it gives you more options for cues.

I'd also have that snakey Portishead theme going on when Bond goes through an airport or something and generate suspense...

I could go on and on!

Anyway, cheers for getting back to us Blofeld's Cat, and I realise it's always easier to come in with suggestions after someone else has done the main work!

JennyFlexFan

Since I like the Lani Hall "NSNA" song, I was sad to see it go. FYEO's score would work in many places in the new version, but some clips are missing, is that intentional? Like Fatima's HA in the tunnel, I always loved that HA...

emtiem

Napoleon Plural wrote:

Nice of you to pop up and comment. Glad you like some of my suggestions... would it also be possible to use some of The Incredibles soundtrack? That has very Bondian sounding music (it's a pastiche, as you probably know) including one cue that sounds very Goldfinger-like (from GF's pts that is), yet would have the advantage of not putting you in mind of another Bond film but just create the atmosphere.

Heh- that reminds me of a great moment in NSMA- it's hard not to watch and play the game of trackspotting; seeing which piece came from which other Bond film. But there one one cue that threw me- when Bond and Domino are shown their new 'home' by Largo at the end of the film. I was desperately trying to figure out which it was from, but overlooked the obvious- it's from Never Say Never Again; the original score working quite well! Clever old Drummond!

blofeld04

JennyFlexFan wrote:

Since I like the Lani Hall "NSNA" song, I was sad to see it go. FYEO's score would work in many places in the new version, but some clips are missing, is that intentional? Like Fatima's HA in the tunnel, I always loved that HA...

I realised from the start that my choices of music, my decisions concerning recutting certain scenes et al could not possibly appeal to everyone.

But isn't that true of every one of us when it comes to the Eon films themselves? I guess the major difference 'twixt my effort and the other Bond's is that there is a pre-existing version with which to compare, whereas the other Bond's are presented fresh.

Had I known, when creating the first clip, that I would later change my mind and redo the entire film instead of just a single clip, I may well have done a few things differently.

But I'm nonetheless happy that for the majority of fans, my little novelty works about 90% of the time.

cheers.

blofeld04

FROSTY wrote:

It's all good!

"what if" versions can be fun ...

As you have made mention, in the expanded version of your post, reference to FYEO, you may be interested in another clip of the 'what if' variety which ties OHMSS to the opening graveyard scene from FYEO.

In this first scene of his first OO7 film as director, I have always felt that John Glen was picking up from where his old tutor, Peter Hunt, had left Bond - grieving over the death of his beloved Tracey.

Glen addresses the eternal effect that the terrible tragedy has on Bond by by showing him placing flowers on Tracey's grave so many years after her death.

It's as if Glen was saying to the fans, "forget all that crap between OHMSS and FYEO, THIS film is the natural successor to OHMSS.

I edited a short clip that says, "what if FYEO was indeed the film that followed OHMSS?".

The clip can be found in the "Screening Room" section of my OHMSS website (see my sig, below, for the url).

Would be interested in your opinion.

P.S.: Thanks for doing that DVD of the ABC TV OHMSS - I'd been after that rarity for years!

Glad you found it of worth.

cheers.

Napoleon Plural

The cinematic music that samples the space theme from DAF is on the Beats By Dope Demand on Three:

http://www.discogs.com/release/22650

for details. The track is Timber, the one before it, Grantby, samples The Ipcress File to good effect.

The Portishead sampled track is by The 411 on their single Teardrops.

Golrush007

I saw the original version of NSNA for the first time today. I must say how much better many of the scenes are in Blofelds Cat's reworkings. Most notably the opening scene, as White Knight really adds so much to the scene, and when compared to the NSNA title song in the sequence, the comparison is amazing. It is so much better with the Bondian music, rather than the dull title track of the original music.

Napoleon Plural

Sorry to drag this up to the top again, but it occurred to me that for the opening scene Blofeld's Cat could use the track from FRWL where there in St Sophia's and Red Grant is trailing Bond. It's a very suspenseful, rhythmic piece of music that creates tension, which is what the pts needs. The way it fizzles out at the end chimes well with Bond getting 'knifed' at the end of it, too.

Then you could go straight into something like 6 Underground as the main theme...