While nobody has been "run off" the site, there have been a few posts (including a couple by some of the mods) suggesting that if people really don't like CR then they shouldn't torture themselves by continually posting their displeasure.
So if I understand you, there is no issue with anyone being "run off"?
Not sure I follow you. I didn't make the original comment about anybody being "run off"; I was just posting my thoughts on it. I do think it is too strong a phrase. I do not think anybody's been "run off" the site if that's what you're asking me.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
But I'm sure AKB46 and CnB appreciate the support... :v
I think that's painting things a little too black and white. There are a lot of us who don't care for the kind of movie CR is apparently shaping up to be; but you don't see us posting pics of Craig morphing into lower primates or verbally insulting him. Just because we don't like what we see is no reason to lump us in with that bunch.
I don't want to lump anybody in with anyone---and if you're not 'boycotting' CR, I'm certainly not talking about you. But once upon a time, the Craig insults were flying, and things did get quite ugly 'round these parts. I personally have many posts during that time of which I am not at all proud, but my pugilist's stance was a defensive one.
Now, the pendulum has swung the other way, and even the most minor disagreements cause unpleasant ripples---some weeks back, I had an esoteric discussion about Eon's use of cheaper 'stand-in' locations (vs actual locations) with an AJB member whom I genuinely considered a friend---and I received a PM accusing me of being 'as combative as ever,' when in fact all I wanted was a bit of stimulating conversation.
Finding a middle ground is apparently very difficult, which I believe explains why traffic in the CR forum is almost nonexistent these days, absent some sort of minor breaking news.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
No offense was taken by me Loeffs, if you were trying to make a little joke I'm cool with that. I'm beyond caring about any pro or anti CR posts. As I said, right now that movie inspires only apathy in me and by and large I don't have much to say about it anymore.
But CraigNotBond is a little different. I do kind of bristle a bit when I read something that even remotely suggests I'd have any association, however tenuous, with a tasteless site like that.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
I assure you Tony, any association between you and that anus of a website was never implied, nor intended. {[]
If only all misunderstandings could be resolved this easily, the world (and the 'net!) would be a much more civil place.
Long Live James Bond :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well since I am the one who used the term "run off", and it has been become a discussion item I believe I should try to explain my use of the term.
In hindsight, I believe the term is too strong and I wish I hadn't used it. It was a quick post with not a lot of thought put into it. It was meant as a rebuttal to Emtiem's post that everyone is now happy with Craig, which I do not believe to be true.
As Loeffs stated, the days after Craig was announced the battlelines were drawn and people had at it. Although I participated with my fair share of critical Craig posts I was never a fan of the picture threads and did post my displeasure with their infantile nature. However, I do believe that after Si cracked down on the bloodletting (which was the right thing to do) many anti-Craigers pulled in their horns for fear of banishment (several members on both sides of the fence were asked to leave after receiving warnings) and as Tony pointed out threats of removal were handed out. Which I believe has stiffled the conversation on the CR board. As Loeffs pointed out, traffic on the CR board has dwindled and on some days is almost nothing. This at a time when you think traffic would be fairly active.
This is a great site, I don't come here all the time because I don't like it. I respect everyone's views even though I don't always agree with them. I frequently diasgreed with Bladerunner, but I miss him and wish he was still here posting his thoughts. Loeffs, Blue and others can't wait for the movie and I think that is great. Tony, myself and others are disappointed in what we have seen so far and express ourselves when we can. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade, but in all honesty I am currently disappointed and I just want to express that on site with other Bond fans who may understand my feelings. Others may disagree and I fully welcome your rebuttal.
As I have said before, I could be wrong.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Well spoken, Barry. A tough situation all the way round. As long as we're Bond fans---and, dare I say it...friends?---first, we can all get through this.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Agreed, well spoken Barry, Tony, et al. I for one can certainly see a difference between the CNB mentality and posts that have appeared in this thread. I think what's changed lately isn't so much a lack of thoughts expressed on current news, but rather the insane back-and-forth bickering (all raise a hand who's been there and done that ) that extended the post-life of simple news threads past all comprehension, it was arguing for arguing's sake and it was nobody's absolutely nobody's finest hour. It's nice to see these days that when it (rarely) pops up, it tends to self-correct, there's a lot more respect for differing POVs IMHO. Must come from rubbing elbows all these months or something...(everybody warble with me now: "Getting to know you..." ) )
Nothing about this movie interests me in the slightest
Which is something I find hard to understand; as a Bond fan doesn't a spy action movie interest you, even if you don't like the way the man with the name James Bond is portrayed? I like Bond films and hate Tom cruise, but I still saw MI3.
It may not have been their intent to belittle previous efforts as they try to prop up Craig and CR but it sure comes across that way to me a lot of the time.
And it comes across to me, without wanting to offend you, that people see what they want to see. Much like the complaints of the 'he won't wear I suit!' type which appeared when the first photos of Bond not wearing a suit in environments where no-one wears suits appeared: people who didn't like what they've heard of CR tended to jump on everything they could grasp as ammo to fling at it and it still feels like this attitude prevails slightly. People who dislike the difference of CR are often complaining about the 'belittling of Sean etc.', but as I said before, this interview draws no value judgements between the new Bond and the old: Murino just says how different it/he is. And if you're really not used to the 'best Bond girl ever' type of hyperbole which gets rolled out at every Bond film (and many people would often say how Pierce was the best Bond, by the way) by now then I'm not sure where you've been hiding. When they say that they're not saying Roger was rubbish, just that Pierce or whoever the current Bond is is better or 'the best'. And they often don't even mean it; it's just something to say. You can't let hype-filled film promotion upset you.
Agreed, well spoken Barry, Tony, et al. I for one can certainly see a difference between the CNB mentality and posts that have appeared in this thread. I think what's changed lately isn't so much a lack of thoughts expressed on current news, but rather the insane back-and-forth bickering (all raise a hand who's been there and done that ) that extended the post-life of simple news threads past all comprehension, it was arguing for arguing's sake and it was nobody's absolutely nobody's finest hour. It's nice to see these days that when it (rarely) pops up, it tends to self-correct, there's a lot more respect for differing POVs IMHO. Must come from rubbing elbows all these months or something...(everybody warble with me now: "Getting to know you..." ) )
Group Hug!! B-) )
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,746Chief of Staff
many anti-Craigers pulled in their horns for fear of banishment (several members on both sides of the fence were asked to leave after receiving warnings) and as Tony pointed out threats of removal were handed out.
Anti-Craigers have no fear of banishment from this site, provided they are sensible and responsible about what they post. Believe me, it was no fun reading over 15 pages a day about how "Craig has a head like a potato" and other such banal posts. Rather than carry on in that manner we would prefer those members either not to post, or leave - and certainly don't torture yourself by watching the film !
If you don't like Daniel Craig - fine.
If you don't like what you have seen about Casino Royale - fine.
All we ask is for is some semblance of intelligent reasoning - from both sides.
Even we mods are not all of the same mind about Craig and the direction of Casino Royale, that's why we don't have a "love Daniel and CR or leave" policy like some sites.
Please don't think this is aimed at you, Barry Nelson, it's not - I'm just trying to clear things up.
Even we mods are not all of the same mind about Craig and the direction of Casino Royale, that's why we don't have a "love Daniel and CR or leave" policy like some sites.
Who's that then?
Sir MilesThe Wrong Side Of The WardrobePosts: 27,746Chief of Staff
Even we mods are not all of the same mind about Craig and the direction of Casino Royale, that's why we don't have a "love Daniel and CR or leave" policy like some sites.
Who's that then?
I'm sure if you search around the CR Forum you'll find out
Don't know that's any worse than what was going on here, but it's all water under the bridge now. Amazing what a little seeing-is-believing will do, even if it's just a teaser trailer.
I also have doubts and fears about Craig and his ability to...not be a joyless Dalton clone.
Which would be perfection for me !
What you see as "joyless" I see as interesting/real/grounded.
Just proves that some will love CR and some will hate it for the exact same reasons.
YNWA 97
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited July 2006
I hope so too, HG. I hate to see any Bond film underperform at the box office, as it puts the future of my favourite movie character at risk. Personally, I hope the theatres are "overwhelmingly occupied" with a pro-Bond crowd...
I got through my own personal 'Bond Dark Ages' with another actor. If poor Danny represents your own personal 'Dark Ages,' please keep in mind that they will pass.
:007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Everyone knows that CBn is a fanatically Pro-Craig Zone that does not tolerate much if any genuine debate. If you don't toe the line of the mods, you are either banned or made to feel very unwelcome, and there have been many people who emigrated here from there for that very reason.
A very brief search turns up this from one of the mods at CBn:
We've no agenda to force people to like Craig. The reason people get banned is the manner in which they have said what they have said, not the general nature of what they have said. Experience has suggested that more of the "antis" than the "pros" or "undecideds" have proved themselves incapable of expessing themselves in temperate manner or - as with this, spamming the board with self-created websites and passing it off as the work of thousands - behaving themselves in any evidently sane way. Should a person find himself banned, it's not because of his opinion but because of his (or her) conduct in expressing it
If you can find any proof which says otherwise I'll entertain you. Otherwise it's just scurrilous rumour-mongering. Thre's plenty of people on there who hold many reservations and express them in a polite manner leading to debate.
You see Em, you don't understand that in your own way you're just as bad as the people who run Craig Not Bond. Fanaticism is fanaticism is fanaticism. If you refuse to acknowledge (let alone entertain) the smallest doubt on a subject then you are a fanatic. Whether it's that you think Craig looks like a Mr. Potato Head and he's going to be the RUIN of the series or you think he's THE BEST BOND EVER without having seen him act out one full minute of film. I've tried to explain ad nauseum that while I love the script for CR and have great hopes for the film and WANT the film to be as great as it is on the page, I also have doubts and fears about Craig and his ability to...not be a joyless Dalton clone.
That's right, I hold those two concepts in my brain at the exact same time. Love the story, not sure about the actor or the director.
You see- that's what the CBN mod is talking about. You find it unable to enter into a deabte about this without casting doubt on my intelligence with your little 'holding two concepts in brain' dig. I do have reservations about aspects of CR; I've expressed them on here many times. But you've decided to paint a picture of me, just like the one of CBN you have, which simplifies it all into black and white.
And yeah; I am guilty of fanaticism. You do know where the derivation of the term 'fan' comes from I presume? I'm a Bond fan on a Bond fansite expressing the fact I'm a fan. Shoot me.
It's NORMAL to have doubts about an actor taking over the mantle of such an iconic role. It's NOT normal to hate him before you've even seen him play the role OR to worship him prematurely and to attack anyone who you feel is attacking him (even if they're just doubting).
Doubts I've expressed too. Of course I'm not SURE how he will turn out as Bond; how could I be? I'm not stupid. But I'm optimisitic. Sorry about that. He might be terrible and unsuitable; of course he could. But I like to hope that he won't until I see proof otherwise: an actor doing well in a film isn't something I'm going to worry about for the next six months and that's a thought I'm sure I've presented to some who've expressed doubts. Find me an attack and I'll listen to you.
And this interview quote is the perfect example. Anyone can see, intended or not, that there are durogatory implications to all the PR prattle that is coming out (or being put out by EON) about Craig and a lot of fans find it very off-putting. But no, you won't even acknowledge that they have a right to feel that way...
Sorry; I'm blinkered? 'Anyone can see..'? You appear think your point of view is The Correct One and I'm quite simply Wrong. It looks like you have contempt for my opinions and believe I'm wrong to hold them- I hope I'm wrong about that. What's the point of being on a debating board if you can't acknowledge my point of view? I think the piece is the standard bit of fluff which says how great the current actor is; without even drawing negative or positive comparisons against other Bonds; just difference. But you think I'm Wrong to think that and your point of view is the only correct one?
How can you debate something with someone who doesn't even recognize your point of view and right to have your own opinion?
I think you're more equipped to answer that than me, seeing as my point of view is obviously Incorrect and founded from a lack of intelligence and/or aggression.
Just imagine that the current activity of this forum as the fanbase that loves DC and CR vis the activity this forum had when DC was announced as Bond and we had both pro PB and pro DC fans duking it out. Over time this site has overwhelmingly been occupied by pro-craiger crowd while other segment of the crowd is either gone or dont post that often. I am sure i am not the only one that feels this way but the forums almost feel deserted now minus few of the regular posters...a farcry of what this forum was few months ago.
That's pretty natural, though- there was a lot more to talk about then with lots of new information coming out etc.! Since then we're just playing the waiting game; I don't think any Bond forums have been as busy since the beginning of the year. I'm sure nearer when the film comes out there'll be plenty more activity and lots of divided opinions!
And if you think is bad, you should see the Transformers fans talking about the photo of the new Optimus Prime...
Completely O/T but not really deserving it's own thread:
Just came across this from another forum; it's from a user who is involved with the industry in some way. It's interesting because he read the CR script when it was first leaked and was far from complimentary. He didn't say it was bad per se, but thought it pretty ho-hum. This is what he said just a few days ago:
I was just reading the updated script for CR at lunch today and its a definite improvement..some of the cheesy Purvis& Wadeisms are gone for a start.
The action sequence near the end seems a bit " shoehorned in" but otherwise not bad at all.
He'd also been watching Craig in action this week. He's been quite forthright about thinking Craig is a bad choice for a while because of the backlash against him: these are his thoughts on the bits of his performance he has seen:
he's very athletic...throws himself into the action scenes in the same way as Lazenby or Dalton.Certainly more physical than Moore ( who isn't) and Brosnan.To be honest I think all the criticism has put a bit of a bee in his bonnet.Hasn't got Connery's presence or stature but certainly not a wimp.
Remains to be seen what he is like when he is not kicking &&*(
He's said he thinks Craig is a bit uncharasmatic, although I'm not sure if he thinks that generally or as Bond.
Quite a balanced-seeming point of view: thought it might be of interest.
ben, I think you could include every forum on the net when talking about Bond/Craig/poor ettiquette, it was a divisive choice and fans everywhere went nutso (clinical term, it's in the DSM IV...;)), on both sides. And it's still going on to various extents, and likely will to some extent...FOREVER.
What I've learned thought it all is: entitlement is evil.
Completely O/T but not really deserving it's own thread:
Just came across this from another forum; it's from a user who is involved with the industry in some way. It's interesting because he read the CR script when it was first leaked and was far from complimentary. He didn't say it was bad per se, but thought it pretty ho-hum. This is what he said just a few days ago:
I was just reading the updated script for CR at lunch today and its a definite improvement..some of the cheesy Purvis& Wadeisms are gone for a start.
The action sequence near the end seems a bit " shoehorned in" but otherwise not bad at all.
He'd also been watching Craig in action this week. He's been quite forthright about thinking Craig is a bad choice for a while because of the backlash against him: these are his thoughts on the bits of his performance he has seen:
he's very athletic...throws himself into the action scenes in the same way as Lazenby or Dalton.Certainly more physical than Moore ( who isn't) and Brosnan.To be honest I think all the criticism has put a bit of a bee in his bonnet.Hasn't got Connery's presence or stature but certainly not a wimp.
Remains to be seen what he is like when he is not kicking &&*(
He's said he thinks Craig is a bit uncharasmatic, although I'm not sure if he thinks that generally or as Bond.
Quite a balanced-seeming point of view: thought it might be of interest.
Seems like a fair balanced opinion, if the fan has the knowledge he claims he has.
He claims Craig is very physical in the role, I believe that. He states Craig lacks the presense and stature of previous Bonds. Therein is the problem I have stated all along. Bond needs presense and stature and charisma and Craig lacks all of them IMO (fully understanding others see differently).
You have said that you enjoy Dalton's portrayal, and many believe that Craig will play it like Dalton. If this is true, would you say that a) Dalton was a charismatic Bond, and b) that if Craig gives basically a carbon-copy performance, you would be satisfied?
You have said that you enjoy Dalton's portrayal, and many believe that Craig will play it like Dalton. If this is true, would you say that a) Dalton was a charismatic Bond, and b) that if Craig gives basically a carbon-copy performance, you would be satisfied?
Good question, I liked Dalton as Bond, I think he had the charisma needed, while also being physical. I especially enjoyed his chemistry with Carey Lowell. The critics and fans can say Craig will play Bond like Dalton, which I take to mean tougher, more ruthless, etc. However, I have never seen any Craig performance (I have seen at least four of his movies)that leads me to believe that he can project the charisma that I feel Bond needs, while also being tougher and more ruthless. When I see Craig on screen, the word pugnacious comes to mind. I don't believe Bond should be pugnacious, he should be suave and debonair, while also being tough. IMO and I am only one single Bond fan, Craig is not capable. As evidence, one only needs to look at the final shot of the CR trailer, Craig at the gambling table, sure didn't look like the suave, debonair, gentleman agent. To me he looked more like a mob enforcer in a tuxs.
To me, Dalton always looked severely constipated or like he had to pass a kidney stone. I felt like HE thought that was being "tough". There was no charm or charisma as far as I saw. Even Connery thought Dalton was too grim in the part and took it too seriously. If I wanted a hero who is working that hard to be tough, instead of being cool and effortless (as I think Bond is and should be), then I'd be the fan of an AMERICAN action hero in countless bad action films.
Edit: And by effortless I mean that he portrays an ease even as things get dicey, not that he's not seriously challenged. He's just smart enough and secure enough to keep his cool under any circumstances.
To me "Bondian" is how Brosnan dispatches the guy at the bar in TWINE, by taking his knife, pinning his tie to the bar and kicking his legs out from under him. Then having another sip of martini.
Preceded by the first time ever Bond needed see-though glasses to figure out somebody had a weapon in their armpit, utterly unnecessary...but I digress.
I liked Dalton as Bond until he started to move or open his mouth: when he wasn't being grim he was trying to be "romantic," which always seemed to equate to a goofy non-Bondian smile, it made for a very disconcerting performance IMHO. And I really wanted to like Dalton as Bond, he just looked so lost...he was the best Bond on paper, just that the reality was something much less than the idea, kinda like New Coke.
Comments
Not sure I follow you. I didn't make the original comment about anybody being "run off"; I was just posting my thoughts on it. I do think it is too strong a phrase. I do not think anybody's been "run off" the site if that's what you're asking me.
I don't want to lump anybody in with anyone---and if you're not 'boycotting' CR, I'm certainly not talking about you. But once upon a time, the Craig insults were flying, and things did get quite ugly 'round these parts. I personally have many posts during that time of which I am not at all proud, but my pugilist's stance was a defensive one.
Now, the pendulum has swung the other way, and even the most minor disagreements cause unpleasant ripples---some weeks back, I had an esoteric discussion about Eon's use of cheaper 'stand-in' locations (vs actual locations) with an AJB member whom I genuinely considered a friend---and I received a PM accusing me of being 'as combative as ever,' when in fact all I wanted was a bit of stimulating conversation.
Finding a middle ground is apparently very difficult, which I believe explains why traffic in the CR forum is almost nonexistent these days, absent some sort of minor breaking news.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
But CraigNotBond is a little different. I do kind of bristle a bit when I read something that even remotely suggests I'd have any association, however tenuous, with a tasteless site like that.
If only all misunderstandings could be resolved this easily,
Long Live James Bond :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
In hindsight, I believe the term is too strong and I wish I hadn't used it. It was a quick post with not a lot of thought put into it. It was meant as a rebuttal to Emtiem's post that everyone is now happy with Craig, which I do not believe to be true.
As Loeffs stated, the days after Craig was announced the battlelines were drawn and people had at it. Although I participated with my fair share of critical Craig posts I was never a fan of the picture threads and did post my displeasure with their infantile nature. However, I do believe that after Si cracked down on the bloodletting (which was the right thing to do) many anti-Craigers pulled in their horns for fear of banishment (several members on both sides of the fence were asked to leave after receiving warnings) and as Tony pointed out threats of removal were handed out. Which I believe has stiffled the conversation on the CR board. As Loeffs pointed out, traffic on the CR board has dwindled and on some days is almost nothing. This at a time when you think traffic would be fairly active.
This is a great site, I don't come here all the time because I don't like it. I respect everyone's views even though I don't always agree with them. I frequently diasgreed with Bladerunner, but I miss him and wish he was still here posting his thoughts. Loeffs, Blue and others can't wait for the movie and I think that is great. Tony, myself and others are disappointed in what we have seen so far and express ourselves when we can. I am not trying to rain on anyones parade, but in all honesty I am currently disappointed and I just want to express that on site with other Bond fans who may understand my feelings. Others may disagree and I fully welcome your rebuttal.
As I have said before, I could be wrong.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Which is something I find hard to understand; as a Bond fan doesn't a spy action movie interest you, even if you don't like the way the man with the name James Bond is portrayed? I like Bond films and hate Tom cruise, but I still saw MI3.
And it comes across to me, without wanting to offend you, that people see what they want to see. Much like the complaints of the 'he won't wear I suit!' type which appeared when the first photos of Bond not wearing a suit in environments where no-one wears suits appeared: people who didn't like what they've heard of CR tended to jump on everything they could grasp as ammo to fling at it and it still feels like this attitude prevails slightly. People who dislike the difference of CR are often complaining about the 'belittling of Sean etc.', but as I said before, this interview draws no value judgements between the new Bond and the old: Murino just says how different it/he is. And if you're really not used to the 'best Bond girl ever' type of hyperbole which gets rolled out at every Bond film (and many people would often say how Pierce was the best Bond, by the way) by now then I'm not sure where you've been hiding. When they say that they're not saying Roger was rubbish, just that Pierce or whoever the current Bond is is better or 'the best'. And they often don't even mean it; it's just something to say. You can't let hype-filled film promotion upset you.
Group Hug!! B-)
Anti-Craigers have no fear of banishment from this site, provided they are sensible and responsible about what they post. Believe me, it was no fun reading over 15 pages a day about how "Craig has a head like a potato" and other such banal posts. Rather than carry on in that manner we would prefer those members either not to post, or leave - and certainly don't torture yourself by watching the film !
If you don't like Daniel Craig - fine.
If you don't like what you have seen about Casino Royale - fine.
All we ask is for is some semblance of intelligent reasoning - from both sides.
Even we mods are not all of the same mind about Craig and the direction of Casino Royale, that's why we don't have a "love Daniel and CR or leave" policy like some sites.
Please don't think this is aimed at you, Barry Nelson, it's not - I'm just trying to clear things up.
Who's that then?
I'm sure if you search around the CR Forum you'll find out
Oh right. And you're basing this on... what?
Good one!
Reading what? Evidence. Everybody's very hazy about this; almost as if....
Which would be perfection for me !
What you see as "joyless" I see as interesting/real/grounded.
Just proves that some will love CR and some will hate it for the exact same reasons.
I got through my own personal 'Bond Dark Ages' with another actor. If poor Danny represents your own personal 'Dark Ages,' please keep in mind that they will pass.
:007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
A very brief search turns up this from one of the mods at CBn:
http://debrief.commanderbond.net/index.php?showtopic=30938&st=60&p=556803&#entry556803
If you can find any proof which says otherwise I'll entertain you. Otherwise it's just scurrilous rumour-mongering. Thre's plenty of people on there who hold many reservations and express them in a polite manner leading to debate.
You see- that's what the CBN mod is talking about. You find it unable to enter into a deabte about this without casting doubt on my intelligence with your little 'holding two concepts in brain' dig. I do have reservations about aspects of CR; I've expressed them on here many times. But you've decided to paint a picture of me, just like the one of CBN you have, which simplifies it all into black and white.
And yeah; I am guilty of fanaticism. You do know where the derivation of the term 'fan' comes from I presume? I'm a Bond fan on a Bond fansite expressing the fact I'm a fan. Shoot me.
Doubts I've expressed too. Of course I'm not SURE how he will turn out as Bond; how could I be? I'm not stupid. But I'm optimisitic. Sorry about that. He might be terrible and unsuitable; of course he could. But I like to hope that he won't until I see proof otherwise: an actor doing well in a film isn't something I'm going to worry about for the next six months and that's a thought I'm sure I've presented to some who've expressed doubts. Find me an attack and I'll listen to you.
Sorry; I'm blinkered? 'Anyone can see..'? You appear think your point of view is The Correct One and I'm quite simply Wrong. It looks like you have contempt for my opinions and believe I'm wrong to hold them- I hope I'm wrong about that. What's the point of being on a debating board if you can't acknowledge my point of view? I think the piece is the standard bit of fluff which says how great the current actor is; without even drawing negative or positive comparisons against other Bonds; just difference. But you think I'm Wrong to think that and your point of view is the only correct one?
I think you're more equipped to answer that than me, seeing as my point of view is obviously Incorrect and founded from a lack of intelligence and/or aggression.
See: Bond fans, last 40 years.
That's a real shame; I hope you find something to enjoy.
That's pretty natural, though- there was a lot more to talk about then with lots of new information coming out etc.! Since then we're just playing the waiting game; I don't think any Bond forums have been as busy since the beginning of the year. I'm sure nearer when the film comes out there'll be plenty more activity and lots of divided opinions!
And if you think is bad, you should see the Transformers fans talking about the photo of the new Optimus Prime...
Just came across this from another forum; it's from a user who is involved with the industry in some way. It's interesting because he read the CR script when it was first leaked and was far from complimentary. He didn't say it was bad per se, but thought it pretty ho-hum. This is what he said just a few days ago:
He'd also been watching Craig in action this week. He's been quite forthright about thinking Craig is a bad choice for a while because of the backlash against him: these are his thoughts on the bits of his performance he has seen:
He's said he thinks Craig is a bit uncharasmatic, although I'm not sure if he thinks that generally or as Bond.
Quite a balanced-seeming point of view: thought it might be of interest.
What I've learned thought it all is: entitlement is evil.
Seems like a fair balanced opinion, if the fan has the knowledge he claims he has.
He claims Craig is very physical in the role, I believe that. He states Craig lacks the presense and stature of previous Bonds. Therein is the problem I have stated all along. Bond needs presense and stature and charisma and Craig lacks all of them IMO (fully understanding others see differently).
You have said that you enjoy Dalton's portrayal, and many believe that Craig will play it like Dalton. If this is true, would you say that a) Dalton was a charismatic Bond, and b) that if Craig gives basically a carbon-copy performance, you would be satisfied?
Good question, I liked Dalton as Bond, I think he had the charisma needed, while also being physical. I especially enjoyed his chemistry with Carey Lowell. The critics and fans can say Craig will play Bond like Dalton, which I take to mean tougher, more ruthless, etc. However, I have never seen any Craig performance (I have seen at least four of his movies)that leads me to believe that he can project the charisma that I feel Bond needs, while also being tougher and more ruthless. When I see Craig on screen, the word pugnacious comes to mind. I don't believe Bond should be pugnacious, he should be suave and debonair, while also being tough. IMO and I am only one single Bond fan, Craig is not capable. As evidence, one only needs to look at the final shot of the CR trailer, Craig at the gambling table, sure didn't look like the suave, debonair, gentleman agent. To me he looked more like a mob enforcer in a tuxs.
Preceded by the first time ever Bond needed see-though glasses to figure out somebody had a weapon in their armpit, utterly unnecessary...but I digress.
I liked Dalton as Bond until he started to move or open his mouth: when he wasn't being grim he was trying to be "romantic," which always seemed to equate to a goofy non-Bondian smile, it made for a very disconcerting performance IMHO. And I really wanted to like Dalton as Bond, he just looked so lost...he was the best Bond on paper, just that the reality was something much less than the idea, kinda like New Coke.
Damn we Bond fans are a tough crowd. :007)