Bond vs Tintin/Fleming vs Herge
caractacus potts
Orbital communicator, level 10Posts: 4,109MI6 Agent
before I discovered the globetrotting adventures of James Bond 007
I was a fanatic collector of the globetrotting adventures of Tintin
I think the two series have a few things in common, Herge was an obsessive compulsive type who would research every last detail to make Tintins world tightly grounded in reality
if Tintin travelled in a boat, Herge would research every rivet that held that boat together
and Ive been reading lately that Fleming would do much the same
for example Fleming would travel the routes he intended Bond to take in his adventures, eg the NewYork-to-StPetersburg train in LaLD, and of course the books always have these tenpage shpiels on the rules of baccarat and lots of plausible technobabble about how Largos boat works
and for childreans adventures, the Tintin books were full of specific references to realworld political situations in distant locales, whether using real names or couched in fictitious metaphors
he investigated international opium rings, as well as getting tangled up in Nazi-esque ancshlusses and millionaire arms dealers stoking Latin American civil wars
heady stuff for a childrens comic!
so I read all the Tintin adventures when I was little, and aspired to travel the world and have adventures when I grew up
and when I ran out of tintins, there came this movie called the Spy Who Loved Me which appealed to the same interests, and I learned there were 9 other films and 14 books that I would also need to collect
now I was once discussing these commonalities with a fellow Tintin-fan once, opining 007 was like a post-pubescent Tintin, and he pointed out "yeh but Tintin doesnt kill people"
true but Tintin never gets any chickie-action either, so theres a tradeoff there
any other 007 fans who share a Tintin obsession here?
I was a fanatic collector of the globetrotting adventures of Tintin
I think the two series have a few things in common, Herge was an obsessive compulsive type who would research every last detail to make Tintins world tightly grounded in reality
if Tintin travelled in a boat, Herge would research every rivet that held that boat together
and Ive been reading lately that Fleming would do much the same
for example Fleming would travel the routes he intended Bond to take in his adventures, eg the NewYork-to-StPetersburg train in LaLD, and of course the books always have these tenpage shpiels on the rules of baccarat and lots of plausible technobabble about how Largos boat works
and for childreans adventures, the Tintin books were full of specific references to realworld political situations in distant locales, whether using real names or couched in fictitious metaphors
he investigated international opium rings, as well as getting tangled up in Nazi-esque ancshlusses and millionaire arms dealers stoking Latin American civil wars
heady stuff for a childrens comic!
so I read all the Tintin adventures when I was little, and aspired to travel the world and have adventures when I grew up
and when I ran out of tintins, there came this movie called the Spy Who Loved Me which appealed to the same interests, and I learned there were 9 other films and 14 books that I would also need to collect
now I was once discussing these commonalities with a fellow Tintin-fan once, opining 007 was like a post-pubescent Tintin, and he pointed out "yeh but Tintin doesnt kill people"
true but Tintin never gets any chickie-action either, so theres a tradeoff there
any other 007 fans who share a Tintin obsession here?
Comments
Prisoners Of The Sun, bought in Bern, never looked back. Great to see there's a fellow Tintin fan on the boards.
I was a huge fan of Tintin and Asterix as well (in fact when I was very young, I had the very first "Pilote" magazine that serialized Asterix le Gaulois. My third-grad teacher was a fan who used to cut out the pages -- the mag ran a complete, full-color page in each edition -- then paste them together to form her own books, since there were no books at the time).
Does anyone remember seeing the Tintin movies I believe there were only two of them way back when ("Tintin and the Golden Fleece" and "Tintin and the Blue Oranges")? Potts, you were right about Tintin being grounded in reality. He was a remarkably "adult" character for a kids' cartoon. Imagine a kid's comic book with an opium-themed story today. Or an alcoholic character, like Captain Haddock. People would practically charge child abuse.
I think the first Tintin books I read was Red Rackham's Treasure and Tintin on the Moon (not sure of official titles) and its prequel (forget the name).
I forget what the original French titles were
one other similarity Fleming and Herge had:
they both grew tired of the success of their series and somewhat resented the obligation to continue
and each would grow increasingly personal and experimental with later volumes (eg tSWLM, OHMSS, YOLT, vs Tintin In Tibet, the Casafiore Emerald,or Tintin and the Picaros)
Herge made this longrunning childrens comic into a highly personal project, to the extent that when he died all agreed none of his assistants would complete his last book, let alone continue the series
Fleming of course was eager to sell his concept as soon as he could, and move onto something more serious, but it took him years to make that sale to Brocolli and in the meantime put a lot of his more personal literary ambitions into the Bond novels rather than repeating a successful formula
Then in Flight 714, Captain Haddock and Tintin are in a jet airplane hijacked with submachine guns. (shades of foreshadowing)
First there was space travel in the Moon stories. Then In Tintin And The Picaros it's like the 20s or 30s all over again canoeing down river in a third world country.
Besides Prisoners, The Black Island was one of my favorites, as it started off like a fantasy/horror/mystery story. Nobody ever returns from that island off the Northern coast of Scotland. (Little Crab Key similarity)
But The Blue Lotus with it's Opium Dens and Shanghai skullduggery probably remains one of my strongest faves, this one clearly was around 1930 or so.
Put me down as another big fan. I used to be a bit of a collector of any Herge-related books back in the late eighties. I think there were three live action Tintin movies: Tintin et le lac aux requins, Tintin et le mystere de la Toison d'Or, and Tintin et le oranges bleues. I have some b/w images from the films but as they're not hosted I don't know how to display them here.
I've always been particularly interested in the background to the artwork and creation of the stories; as the books became more successful Herge wanted to improve the presentation and the depth of research became far too much for one person to acomplish. There were several artists involved in redrawing the earlier books and in the creation of the later books (most notably Bob de Moor and Edgar Pierre Jacobs who went on to create their own characters) and a studio devoted to the books, magazines and associated material.
We must have posted at the same time, Alex.
Yes, there are some interesting anomalies in the timeline of the stories, just as there are in the Bond films if you want to draw another parallel. As with the Bond films, Tintin never ages; the America book seems to take place during the '30s, whereas something like Picaros has definite late '60s, early '70s references.
Most of this is due to Herge's disatisfaction with his earlier work, which was sometimes redrawn with better reference after later books in the series had been produced. Sometimes the settings and vehicles were updated (as in The Black Island) but sometimes the period settings had to be retained for the sake of the story (America).
This introduced inconsistencies for those who like to read the books in order, with some stories apparently taking place before others in the published order.
Does anyone else here have a copy of L'Alph Art, the last and incomplete Herge book?
Interesting, Bill. I used to have a book of Tintin et le mystere de la Toison d'Or,(the Golden Fleece)that was illustrated with color stills from the film (is one of your stills of Tintin, standing I think, and Capt. Haddock sitting on a balcony overlooking the sea? For some reason that picture sticks on my mind). Are the films available anywhere? I've never heard of Tintin et le lac aux requins (Shark lake). Do you know when it was made? The other two were early '60s.
Another tidbit you might find interesting: There was a Tintin theme song sung by a female French singer whose name escapes me now. I think it was on the soundtrack to one of the movies. I remember the tune and fragments of the lyrics (this is a 40-plus year-old memory, so bear with me)
Autour du monde (Around the world)
Il vagabonde sans fin (He rambles without end)
Menant la ronde (Leading the dance)
Avec ses fidele copains (With his faithful friends
Hurluberlu (A crank) ... something or other
(chorus)
C'est Tintin, Tintin, Tintin (It's Tintin)
L'enemi numero un (The number one enemi)
De tout les bandits du monde (of all the bandits in the world)
C'est Tintin, Tintin, Tintin (It's Tintin)
(I forget the last line)
Tintin et le lac aux requins,
Tintin et le mystere de la Toison d'Or, and
Tintin et le oranges bleues
the first was an animated cartoon with an original plot, there was a book in the format of the original series using the cel-art for comic strip panels, that was translated into english as Tintin and the Lake of The Sharks, Herge was not involved
the other two were liveaction films in the early 60s, there were hardcover filmbooks in the shape of the regular series but using text and photos
theyre long out of print, and were never translated into english
I found battered copies of both the last time I was in Montreal, I started trying to read them but my french is trop merde pour lire un livre pour enfants!
Ive never seen any of these films, I doubt they are on DVD
there were a couple of live action Asterix movies in recent years, I have the 1st on DVD but theres no subtitles: Gerard Depardieu plays Obelix, Roberto Benigni plays the Roman villain, and Laetitia Casta plays Fabula (Panacea), mmm mm mm! the actor who plays Asterix is Christian Clavier, never heard of him
lots of extreme cartoon violence done with special effects
I have 2 copies of Tintin et l'Alph-Art: one that came out 15 years ago in French with Herges halffinished layouts in one book, and a typed script in an attached book, the two halves bound together like a binder: very upscale artsy format
the other is an English translation in a more normal forma that came out more recently, that includes additional sketches
a Quebec artist has attempted to complete Herges last story, and its available for download here
theres a fantastic used book store in London Ontario called Attic Books
in the 2nd floor window theres a lifesize statue of Tintin as seen on the cover of The Blue Lotus, I keep telling them when they get bored of it I'll gladly take it off their hands
I pointed the statue out to my mum once when she was visiting, then told her the plot of the story it came from including why tintin is hiding in that vase (he's undercover in an opium den) and she was a little bit stunned to realise that was what was going on in the comicky books
I read as a child!
I've every book except for Tintin In The Soviet Union, you might come across a random hardcover omnibus over here but it's usually a rare occurrence. If I even mention Tintin people usually look at me like I've got a third eye or just asked them to spell rutabaga.
As for Asterix, after Rene Goscinny passed away, Albert Uderzo did make a few more in rememberance. They were quite good.
While I'm at it - this is now moved off topic
My overall favourite Tintin adventure is probably 'Tintin in Tibet' although I like them all. My other favourites are 'The Blue Lotus' and 'The Red Sea Sharks'. In a way I'm glad that there aren't any continuation books of Tintin, because they probably wouldn't have the same feel about them as the originals. I suppose it's the same thing as with the Bond continuation series!
Other I enjoy :
Asterix
Spirou (a Tintin wannabe)
Gaston Lagaffe (think he's called Gomer Goof sometimes)
Marsupilami
Iznogood (power hungry/short fused Black Adder wannabe...kinda)
I have a soft spot for The Castafiore Emerald. Its unusual in that the story in set entirely at Marlinspike (I'm sure I read somewhere that this was a result of Herge being temporarily housebound). Captain Haddock is very funny in this one as he does battle with Bianca, Joylon Wagg and a parrot.
Not sure what I think of this. It sounds intriguing, until I remembered that godawful Final Fantasy junk from a few years back.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1923649.htm
Spielberg, Jackson team up for 'Tintin'
A week after DreamWorks picked up Peter Jackson's adaptation of Lovely Bones, studio principal Steven Spielberg and Jackson are teaming up again, this time to bring Spielberg's long-gestating pet project Tintin to the big screen.
Sources say that Jackson and Spielberg will each direct installments of the film, which is based on a series of Belgian comic books called The Adventures of Tintin by Herge.
It is unclear whether other film-makers would be involved, and no script has been written.
The movies would be made using motion-capture technology.
In the comics, Tintin is a young Belgian reporter and world traveler who is aided in his adventures by his faithful dog Snowy.
He later was joined by such colourful characters as Captain Haddock, Professor Cuthbert Calculus and bumbling detectives Thomson and Thompson.
The books, hugely popular in Europe, have been translated into 50 languages, with more than 200 million sold.
Spielberg is a lifelong Tintin fan, first optioning the film rights just before Herge, whose real name is Georges Remi, died in 1983.
Tintin's road to the Hollywood screen has been rocky, with the options lapsing multiple times and Spielberg distracted by other projects.
There were two live-action Tintin movies filmed in the 1960s and three animated ones, but all were low-key releases.
Two animated television series have been made, both of which were adaptations of the comic strips rather than original stories.
Last year, London's Young Vic theatre company did a musical version of Tintin in Tibet.
I too am a big fan of Tintin and Asterix and am excited to see two great film makers approaching the Tintin project (Asterix was okay...). Should be interesting with the way they are shooting it (Gollum style). Great stuff.
New Zealand's no. 1 paper was all ablaze about it yesterday. Here's the link...shame I won't be around when DC comes to town. Maybe while he's here they can do some New Zealand shooting for Bond 23
http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominionpost/4831014a6000.html
I cant believe Daniel Craig is in this - is there anything his name is not attached to these days? Personally I think he is in danger of becoming over exposed.
However, I am delighted that Simon Pegg and Nick Frost are playing Thomson and Thompson - though make up will have their work cut out
Nothing against Craig (I think he's a fine actor) but he doesn't have any draw for me. Having his name on a film means nothing to me personally. Defiance is a good example of this. Craig looked as if he did an excellent job in the previews, but that wasn't enough to get me to see the film. Watching a group of people live in the woods simply didn't appeal to me.
Anyway...I hope people (in this case Spielberg) aren't attaching Craig to films because he's a hot item, but rather because he's right for the role.
Yes, I on the other hand will go see a film if it has Craig in it because I love him as an actor. There is probably a bit of both going on here, with the directors choosing him because he is a hot item (why wouldn't you as a filmmaker?) and because he is a good actor and imo probably good for the role he will play.
Obviously, JB has done some good things for DC and he is getting to pick and choose the roles he plays, I too hope he is not choosing too many. He has not, imo, made a fool of himself yet, but instead has chosen some really good roles for the most part. Keep it going!
love the pastiche pics, ggl007, especially the You Only Live Twice one
I was watching Dr Who Genesis of the Daleks the other night, and one of the factions on Skaro is building a rocket with the exact same red and white checkerboard pattern! I wonder if that was a coincidence or a deliberate tribute?
I'm tempted to answer old questions, but I don't think any of those other fellow agents post here anymore...
the Spielberg movie came and went since the last post in this thread, and I suspect there will never be a sequel
Craig of course played the villain, he may even have been less recognisable than he was in Logan Lucky
the two live action movies from the early 60s are both out on dvd, I have both, neither have subtitles
here's the cover of the Golden Fleece tie-in book, note Haddock is smoking a hookah, the actor who plays Haddock is vey good
the Nelvana tv series, which was very faithful, is also out on dvd and may be easier to find, each episode has either a French or English soundtrack
the old warehouse neighbourhood where Nelvana studios made the tv series in the 90s is now one of the trendiest livework condo districts in Toronto: Liberty Village
I've always liked Tintin, the comics as well as the animated cartoon series we used to have on TV, and which I bought on DVD a few years back to help me learn some French.
I can strongly recommend this little book to anyone interested in the topic of Tintin's historical context and references. But you'd have to be able to read some French.
[url]https://www.amazon.fr/Tintin-dans-lHistoire-événements-inspiré/dp/B00K2NH8XW[/url]
One thing confused me though in regards to this thread: It was mentioned a couple times that the comics were intended for children, whereas I believe they originally weren't? ?:)
"- That is something to be afraid of."
I understand that Le Petit Vingtieme, where Tintin appeared, was a magazine for youngsters.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Petit_Vingti%C3%A8me
do a google image search and see all the herge covers in his original style for Le Petit Vingtième
https://www.google.ca/search?biw=1093&bih=510&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=petit+vingtieme&oq=petit+vingtieme&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.10279.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0.6s76RgyySAc
previously Herge had drawn very early comics for a Boy Scouts magazine
the early Tintin stories were all first printed as serials in Le Petit Vingtième until Germany invaded Belgium
during the occupation he continued the series for another newspaper's childrens supplement: Soir-Jeunesse (part of le Soir)
after the war he started Tintin magazine ... I don't know if that was meant for a more mature audience or not, but a generation or two would have already grown up reading the series so I'm sure quite a few Big Kids were following it
I first encountered Tintin in something called the Children's Digest (which was serialising The Black Island at the time) and I first encountered the books (Methuen editions) in the children's section of WH Smith
Might as well bump Tintin, as Tintin hasn't been bumped for awhile...
In the Avengers episode Man With Two Shadows (S3E03 orig broadcast Oct 12th 1963) * at 21 minutes, start of act 2, John Steed is conspicuously seen reading Tintin in Tibet with a huge grin on his face. When one of the villains enters his room, Steed shows him the book he's reading and says "Very bright little fellow!"
apparently Steed was also seen reading Tintin in:
The Outside-In Man S3E22 orig broadcast Feb 22nd 1964 (Steed reads The Secret of the Unicorn)
The Golden Fleece S3E11 orig broadcast Dec 7th 1963 (Steed reads Tintin au Pays de l'Or Noir (Land of Black Gold))
Look - (Stop Me If You've Heard This One) But There Were These Two Fellers... S6E11 orig broadcast Dec 4th 1968 (Steed reads Le Lotus Bleu (the Blue Lotus))
Two of them are also third season episodes I can't find online or on dvd, the fourth is a Tara King-era episode I've definitely never seen, that's why I never noticed these others. But here is the incriminating evidence:
I also found a photo of Steed and Emma Peel dressed as the Thompson Twins. is this real?
If you cant see the images of Steed reading Tintin I'm trying to link to, I found them all at this euro-comics fansite.
see? I told you Tintin is relevant to the work we're doing here!