Interesting article but, as I feared, WB seems to be going to their tried and true copycat MO, as this paragraph from the article suggests:
Like the recent Batman sequel -- which has become the highest-grossing film of the year thus far -- Mr. Robinov wants his next pack of superhero movies to be bathed in the same brooding tone as "The Dark Knight." Creatively, he sees exploring the evil side to characters as the key to unlocking some of Warner Bros.' DC properties. "We're going to try to go dark to the extent that the characters allow it," he says. That goes for the company's Superman franchise as well.
Just because it works for Batman, doesn't mean you have to go route for every character. Superman, Green Lantern and Flash are not dark, brooding characters. They do not inhabit black worlds. Comments like that show me that suits like Robinov still don't get it and are taking the wrong approach to making these movies.
That is the same excerpt that I gave pause too as well,Tony.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow...Wonder Woman B-)
Great potential there...but rumours about a GA prison film ( ) is sufficient proof that they don't necessarily have the right creative minds involved as of yet.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Green Lantern, Flash, Green Arrow...Wonder Woman B-)
Great potential there...but rumours about a GA prison film ( ) is sufficient proof that they don't necessarily have the right creative minds involved as of yet.
The problem with suits, Loeff is that none of them have an inner "FANBOY"gland.
That's why they're so out of touch with characters of this ilk. I agree that the GA angle sucks.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
The problem with suits, Loeff is that none of them have an inner "FANBOY"gland.
Sadly, their blind spot extends far beyond superhero films X-( X-( X-(
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Old man and Prince of Darkness, prepare to be shocked. :v I am going to make two comments, and not one of them will be a disagreement with either of you.
Firstly, I completely agree with Tony about how not all great comicbook films are dark, and light comic-book characters shouldn't be forced to be dark simply because TDK was huge. Superman may very well have been the greatest comic-book film of all time, and was IMO a hell of a lot better than the abdomination that was Superman 3 in which we saw Supe's dark side. Just because something works for one franchise does NOT mean it will work for other franchises!
Secondly, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I love origin films. To see why Oliver Queen becomes Green Arrow is fascinating to me. The difference between a Spider-Man and a Fantastic Four comes down to quality; and Fantastic Four would probably have sucked regardless of whether it was an origin film or not, considering its ordinary screenplay and it being extremely boring.
So I want to see an origin film for Green Arrow, as well as Captain America, Green Lantern, Flash and maybe even Supes. This idea of having Green Arrow bust out of prison indicates to me that the filmmakers think they are cleverer than the people who created Green Arrow and the fans which love him. They most certainly are not (other than the fans who don't like Spider-Man. :v Sorry, couldn't resist. ) ) B-)
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Looks like Harry Knowles and his legion of geeky fanboys have also caught wind of that Wall Street Journal article and are venting their spleen about going "dark and brooding" with characters like Superman and Green Lantern. Likewise, the boards over at IGN are also alight with outraged fans calling out for Robinov's head.
While I have absolutely no faith in WB, I am hopeful that with so many people commenting passionately on how boneheaded Robinov's intentions are, hopefully the message will get thru.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited August 2008
Thanks for the link, Tony. As boneheaded as Robinov's comments were, I don't think that the "dark" angle will go full throttle. I'm sure that somewhere down the line he'll be pressured to smooth over his harsh statements some.
Maybe I'm just more than a little happy that maybe Singer won't have a place in Superman's future but even Robinov knows that he can't do that with the character and expect big TDK b.o. results...at least that's what I'd like to believe.
A solid and dark premise, for the re-boot, with a formidible villian while keeping the cheesy factor low actually could work.
I think it should be Darkseid or Metallo and whenever this gets going, reference the story arc from the Bruce Timm animated series. That was dark enough.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
A character like Superman needs a compelling reason to go dark. If they were to kill off his son, that would be a valid motivator for him to cut loose. But to just introduce him out of the blue as a fundamentally different character with an "evil side" would be a big mistake in my opinion.
As the AICN article states, I think Robinov's comments stem from the fact that he probably doesn't know anything about these characters to begin with and is thus following his simplistic "copy what already made money" model. Also, let's not forget that this was the same brain surgeon who shelved the Wonder Woman movie after Jodie Foster's Death Wish rip off "The Brave One" tanked with critics and audiences. Robinov rationalized that to mean that women couldn't carry movies. 8-)
The guy's a boob, a bean-counting suit who has delusions of being an auter that guides his filmmakers to achieve a necessary vision. There's little doubt about that in my mind and I seriously doubt he he could tell the difference between Green Lantern and a Coleman Lantern. If he had brain one he would have at least killed that Supermax story once and for all. Hopefully, in a best case scenario, the filmmakers will just tell him what he wants to hear, and then when he goes back to his penthouse they'll just make their own movie and ignore his "input".
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
The guy's a boob, there's little doubt about that in my mind. Hopefully, in a best case scenario, the filmmakers will tell him what he wants to hear, and then when he goes back to his penthouse, they'll just make their own movie.
I'll admit that I don't know much of the guy nor his decisions but he sounds like he might be a pill and gets off on barking out any thought that comes to mind no matter how stupid.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I'm hoping will transpire. I just don't think that they'll go all Dark Shadows with Superman...
*crosses fingers*
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
This whole Superman business reminds me of a story I once read when WB was still trying to get Superman airborn again. At the time, Jon Peters was producing and he'd brought in Kevin Smith to write a spec script. Peters wanted to cast Sean Penn as Superman/Kal-El because he could bring a "necessary element of ruthlessness" to the character. If you want to read more of Peters' ideas, check this out:
Smith also offered hilarious insight into the absurdity of big business Hollywood when he talked about his ill-fated stab at writing the still-unproduced "Superman" script for legendary hairdresser-turned-producer Jon Peters. Smith told the story of how he drove to Peters' fortress in the Hollywood Hills, a mansion reminiscent of the Batcave, and discussed with Peters the direction of the "Superman" film. According to Smith, Peters wanted to cast Sean Penn as the superhero, he didn't want Superman to fly and he didn't want Superman to wear a superhero suit. Peters also envisioned a huge spider playing into the action, Smith said. Bemused, Smith took a stab at the story, collected a hefty paycheck and ultimately, the film languished in development hell. Smith realized the next summer, as he sat in a theater watching "Wild Wild West," which Peters produced, that the high-powered producer had gotten his giant spider. Everyone wins and loses in Hollywood.
All of a sudden, Superman Returns doesn't look quite as bad, does it. Hopefully saner heads will prevail this time as well. Here's the full article:
Peters also envisioned a huge spider playing into the action, Smith said. Bemused, Smith took a stab at the story, collected a hefty paycheck and ultimately, the film languished in development hell. Smith realized the next summer, as he sat in a theater watching "Wild Wild West," which Peters produced, that the high-powered producer had gotten his giant spider. Everyone wins and loses in Hollywood.[/i]
) ) ) ) ) ) )
I don't know, I just found that hilarious.
I just want a hard-hitting, faithful to the source material & costume, no kid having Superman flick. How hard is that?
I mean is that too much to ask? We wouldn't be having this discussion if Singer hadn't gone all mushy with this last attempt.
To think positively, they'll get their act together. Can't say that the news on all of this isn't interesting.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
You can hear Kevin Smith talk about that on Youtube. Hilarious guy.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited August 2008
Marvel is taking their universe in the direction of Teen Titans with their next animated project titled NEXT AVENGERS.
Apparently it's the children of past members of Thor, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Cap & others. I'm sure this will appeal to many kids in hope of a future tv series if sales and feedback are positive and a few diehard fanboys will warm to it.
It is cool to see the long time villian Ultron finally make an appearance though. Only original members, a geezer-ish looking Tony Stark and Bruce Banner, were smart enough to wear "protection". )
The animation looks okay in an angular Timmlike way. I might pick this one up for the kid to watch. Here's the trailer for it:
Suuuuuure Rogue, whatever you say. I'm positive you have no interest in this at all
As for me, I'm not really interested in the whole "children as superheroes" angle - I couldn't get into Teen Titans or Legion of Superheroes for that reason actually. Of course I'm really not the target audience for something like this anyway.
Not being a fanboy, I wondered who can Supes battle?
I thought the coming of age thing worked very well for him but once he's on Earth, and the surprise factor has worn off, he's so Super there's no terrestrial he can fairly face up to, so he's no underdog. Supes II hit the ceiling quick with him battling three fellow Krytonians (?) and that worked but also peaked his Lois Lane relationship too soon, the sort of problem you can easily avoid with a week in week out comic of no particular time scale.
Those phoney electo Nuclear Man figures just don't work for me.
How bout the Russians clone Supey and he can do battle with himself over Georgia or something?
That's a valid question. Early on Superman was a hero that typically saved us from our own depravity and life situations...our common bank robber or a train headed for a washed out bridge, but that worked only for the first half of the first film and the writers need to up the ante. The kryponite was a good tool to bring Superman down to a vulnerable level, but it has since been used to too many times.
There are quite a few characters from Superman's rogues gallery who could put up a good fight. Just off the top of my head...
Mongul: an alien warlord who once tried to turn Earth into a giant spaceship called WarWorld. While not particularly intelligent, physically he can match Superman.
Brainiac: recently reimagined to be a sentient supercomputer of Kryptonian design housed in a humanoid body. Incredibly intelligent and physically very powerful.
Metallo: a two bit crook who's brain was transplanted into a robot powered by Kryptonite.
The Cyborg: originally an astronaut named Hank Henshaw, his body was destroyed during a mission. His consciousness survived however and was able to assimilate and control machines and mechanical devices. He later discovered and bonded with the ship which had brought Superman to earth, giving him access to advanced Kryptonian hardware and Superman's DNA.
The Eradicator: an advanced AI construct from the Superman's home planet Krypton that attempted to transform Earth into a new Krypton. It later became a flesh and blood entity which shared Superman's powers and memories.
Darkseid: one of the most evil characters in the DC universe, ruler of a volcanic world called Apololips, always trying to take over or destroy Earth. Very intelligent, cunning (always has a plan) and physically imposing (he practically looks like he's made out of stone).
Doomsday: a largely mindless alien brute famous for temporarily "killing" Superman in the comics. The comics later revealed that Doomsday was actually a living weapon of Kryptonian heritage, designed by one of Superman's distant ancestors.
Also, on several occasions, Lex Luthor has been know to don exo-skeleton suits that gave him superior strength and other abilities so that he could go toe to to with Superman - far more interesting than another real estate scheme.
Any or all of the above could work as a villain in a future Superman movie, although some of their backgrounds would probably need to be simplified somewhat to make them fit within the context of a two hour movie.
Also, if WB plans to reboot the series, they could very well adapt a simplified version of the Death of Superman and Reign of the Superman storylines into a series of movies. Those storylines incorporated several of the characters mentioned above (Doomsday, Mongul, Cyborg, Eradicator).
Whatever happens, I hope we're not subjected to yet another "origin" story as I really think that's unnecessary with a character as well known as Superman. Just cut to the chase and the action.
EDIT: Thought I'd add in a pic of each villain mentioned.
Interesting stuff Tony DP. Didn't know most of them... that said it seems Superman would be better off reinterpreted into a different world, like Batman and Gotham to some degree. A world where it's acknowledged aliens do exist on planets out there, tie it in with the sci-fi factor, X Files a bit. Then Supes can be our mascot. Otherwise, it's just too hard to swallow that some alien pitches out of nowhere and can do all this stuff.
Interesting stuff Tony DP. Didn't know most of them... that said it seems Superman would be better off reinterpreted into a different world, like Batman and Gotham to some degree. A world where it's acknowledged aliens do exist on planets out there, tie it in with the sci-fi factor, X Files a bit. Then Supes can be our mascot. Otherwise, it's just too hard to swallow that some alien pitches out of nowhere and can do all this stuff.
I'm thinking of a Total Recall type treatment.
I understand where you're coming from NP, but don't forget that Superman himself is an alien from another world; he's already something of a sci-fi character. If audiences can buy the fact that he made it to Earth, then I don't think its too much of a leap to present a similarly extraterrestrial foe. If you went with somebody like The Eradicator or Brainiac, you could also exploit the angle that they too are from Krypton (which seemed to go over well with Zod & Co. from Superman II).
Yes and no. Sure Supes is alien (though would the US let him in these days in times of national security... ) ) but a) Having 2 farfetched characters can be a stretch too far, as some argued Jaws was in Bond and b) Still never got the feeling they played up the alien worlds thing... it becomes a different genre if you do that. The Donner films were kind of set in the here and now.
A similar thing happened with Dr Who in that once you had aliens landing in London it becomes a different genre and NOT set in the here and now as , obv , we know aliens haven't landed on Earth in the last few years. The fiction branches off.
Superman Returns was originally supposed to begin with a prologue in which Supes travels to the remains of the planet Krypton in a special spaceship to see if there were any survivors, thus actually showing us the reason for his five year absence in the film (as an aside, this was by far the best part of the novelization of the movie and we were to later discover that Lex Luthor was behind it all along in an effort to get rid of Superman). The footage was filmed and even screened but Bryan Singer, in his infinite wisdom, decided to remove it from the final cut so he could focus more on the character moments. There were plans to release an extended/re-edited cut of the film that restored that footage but it never came to be. Its a shame as something like that would have helped to remind us that Superman really is an alien from another world.
If you're going to introduce a more outlandish villain, you will need to educate the audience accordingly. That's where marketing and promotion come in. As for the film itself, you could also go the route of Superman I and II and use a prologue to introduce the baddies and the threat that they pose.
Like Darenhat said, the Kryptonite angle has been played to death and if you want to inject some new blood into this franchise then you have to figure out a way for Superman to roll up his sleeves up and throw a few punches. I don't think the audience will have as hard a time accepting a more fantastical villain as you may think. These are after all comic book characters we're talking about.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited August 2008
Those are all great suggestions that I'd love to see. Particularly Darkseid and Metallo with this dark angle the studio is proposing. Using the serious tone of the animated series from the 90s (funny how the cartoons grasped more of an adult feel than most of the comic live-action films put out) would help out tremendously.
They should swallow some pride and get Paul Dini or Geoff Johns on a script. They understand the Superman mythos.
Another villian that should make at least a brief appearance similar to The Scarecrow in TDK, is TOYMAN. No, not the nice, grandfather version from the 40s-60s comics, nor that jokester-looking incarnation from the Superfriends cartoon...
I mean the creepy one from the Bruce Timm run.
That frozen mask and voice alone are unsettling because before this look, I never took TM seriously at all. I don't think that he could particularly carry an entire film on his own but for the new direction, he can be dark.
I'd like to see him in a sequel with the outrageous gadgets that could be created. It might not be smart to play up the pedophile thing with him though...with kids watching and all.
If I recall SUPERMAN: Doomsday tackled this Toyman vice and for a cartoon, that was considerably dark in tone.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
He looks disturbing I'll admit. This is a Superman villian? He deals with child molesters too?
I've vaguely heard of Toyman but never followed the character in anything.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited August 2008
Yes in certain stories The Toyman has been portrayed as such which adds an element of realism to it all. The Mad Hatter in a few of the Batman books as well liked to "play" with children.
What helps make him so disturbing is you never see his actual face. You're just left with that vacuous grin and stare.
Don't look for the molestation subplot to ever come out anytime soon with Superman though; I wouldn't put it past Nolan if he were to suggest it in a future Batman sequel.
Toyman invents theses really OTT toys that are deadly in their own right. Like a giant rubber ducky that fires missles or machine gun fire from its mouth. These things in itself more than compensate for the fact that he can't square off with Supes physically. I don't 100% feel that the character could carry an entire film by himself but that would be up to how good the writer is.
Here's a clip to how cool & sick Timm's Toyman is:
There's an article/op-ed piece over at IGN that discusses WB's ill-advised notion of going all TDK with Superman. In short, another condemnation of WB's infamous copycat style of filmmaking and an impassioned plea to WB suit Robinov and his lackeys to get their heads out of their butts.
This latest snafu by WB is quickly gaining as much hate in the fanboy community as their proposed Justice Leauge movie (you know, the one that wanted to cast world-famous thespian Armie Hammer Jr. as Batman).
There's an article/op-ed piece over at IGN that discusses WB's ill-advised notion of going all TDK with Superman. In short, another condemnation of WB's infamous copycat style of filmmaking and an impassioned plea to WB suit Robinov and his lackeys to get their heads out of their butts.
This latest snafu by WB is quickly gaining as much hate in the fanboy community as their proposed Justice Leauge movie (you know, the one that wanted to cast world-famous thespian Armie Hammer Jr. as Batman).
I read everyone of those fanboy comments and it was pretty much a split decision give or take.
I still blame & remain angry at Bryan Singer because had he come up with something more substaintial than this piece of *** film, would we really be debating WB's idiotic announcement last week? No.
When a hero as iconic as Superman has a nearly 20-year hiatus from cinema, it's a no-brainer that you have to come back hard. Singer didn't do that. But if he is willing to erase that damn kid and put one of those heavyweight baddies listed above on this thread, I might be more open to seeing him get another chance.
I have a strong feeling that Singer is the unbending type when it comes to his "artistic brilliance" and won't be willing to change a thing. He won't outright admit that he screwed this film up. X-(
It's either that or he really didn't have a clue what Superman was all about in the first place.
I'm starting to believe the latter.
Please, if the studio is up in arms about which direction to take the character, just put him on the shelf for awhile and develop the other viables in the DCU. It's not rocket science, so why all the drama?
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I have a strong feeling that Singer is the unbending type when it comes to his "artistic brilliance" and won't be willing to change a thing. He won't outright admit that he screwed this film up. X-(
He was pretty defiant in blaming everyone but himself for SR's less than stellar performance. I don't think he's a Superman fan so much as a fan of that first Donner movie. I could very well be wrong, but my gut tells me that he's done with Superman and we'll be getting another reboot. Of course, The Incredible Hulk showed us that rebooting a recently released movie doesn't always pan out as well as you hope it will. Maybe they'll pull a Judi Dench in CR, ie: keep Routh but ditch all reference to past movies and surround him with an entirely new cast.
Based on the Wall Street Journal article, I think it's safe to say that even WB understands what the problems with the last one were, though their proposed solutions are another matter. It is hard to believe that nobody at WB can craft a suitably acceptable story given Superman's long history and deep rogues gallery. How this next movie turns out will probably depend on who they finally give it to.
According to IGN, The Incredible Hulk will be released on DVD and BluRay on October 21. The title will include the usual slew of features including deleted scenes (though no mention is made if all 70 minutes of footage that was cut will be included).
According to IGN, The Incredible Hulk will be released on DVD and BluRay on October 21. The title will include the usual slew of features including deleted scenes (though no mention is made if all 70 minutes of footage that was cut will be included).
If Marvel wants to recoup some of their costs for this movie, they'd better release the 70 minutes of unseen footage. No need in getting skimpy now.
In either case, I'm buying my copy as soon as they're put on shelves. I'm going to need a high-def set though to really appreciate the CGI...which was fantastic BTW. B-)
I enjoyed THE INCREDIBLE HULK a great deal (I felt as if I were friggin' 12 years old again during the action scenes) and I rank it quite high on my 2008 movies list but not only is the character a questionable draw as suggested here earlier, I give Marvel some of the blame for not pimping the movie enough. Iron Man had a whole year to build its hype so by the time January-February came around, it was a done deal that it would be a HUGE ticket draw because everyone, including non-comic fans, were revved to see it.
TIH's marketing campaign was horrible and they made no efforts to discern the fact that this wasn't a direct sequel to Ang Lee's 2003 version. Commercials just 2 weeks before its release? That's a joke.
I remember looking at the trailer before IM and hearing a few whispers in the audience that they had no idea that they were even making a new Hulk movie.
The big, green guy deserves a sequel but if Marvel wants to see more than generous returns on the dvd release, adding that infamous footage might help.
You can argue that Hulk isn't that desirable to see in theatres if you want but did you know as far as merchandise, comics, etc. are concerned, he is Marvel's second highest cashcow just behind the teary-eyed Spider-Man. That make you happy, Dan? :v
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
You can argue that Hulk isn't that desirable to see in theatres if you want but did you know as far as merchandise, comics, etc. are concerned, he is Marvel second highest cashcow behind the teary-eyed Spider-Man. That make you happy, Dan? :v
{[] That makes me feel delighted. BTW, the original Spider-Man is on TV this upcoming Saturday night. I'll be watching it in honour of you and Tony. :v )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Comments
That is the same excerpt that I gave pause too as well,Tony.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Great potential there...but rumours about a GA prison film (
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The problem with suits, Loeff is that none of them have an inner "FANBOY"gland.
That's why they're so out of touch with characters of this ilk. I agree that the GA angle sucks.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Sadly, their blind spot extends far beyond superhero films X-( X-( X-(
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Firstly, I completely agree with Tony about how not all great comicbook films are dark, and light comic-book characters shouldn't be forced to be dark simply because TDK was huge. Superman may very well have been the greatest comic-book film of all time, and was IMO a hell of a lot better than the abdomination that was Superman 3 in which we saw Supe's dark side.
Secondly, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I love origin films. To see why Oliver Queen becomes Green Arrow is fascinating to me. The difference between a Spider-Man and a Fantastic Four comes down to quality; and Fantastic Four would probably have sucked regardless of whether it was an origin film or not, considering its ordinary screenplay and it being extremely boring.
So I want to see an origin film for Green Arrow, as well as Captain America, Green Lantern, Flash and maybe even Supes. This idea of having Green Arrow bust out of prison indicates to me that the filmmakers think they are cleverer than the people who created Green Arrow and the fans which love him. They most certainly are not (other than the fans who don't like Spider-Man. :v Sorry, couldn't resist.
While I have absolutely no faith in WB, I am hopeful that with so many people commenting passionately on how boneheaded Robinov's intentions are, hopefully the message will get thru.
Link:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/38037
Maybe I'm just more than a little happy that maybe Singer won't have a place in Superman's future but even Robinov knows that he can't do that with the character and expect big TDK b.o. results...at least that's what I'd like to believe.
A solid and dark premise, for the re-boot, with a formidible villian while keeping the cheesy factor low actually could work.
I think it should be Darkseid or Metallo and whenever this gets going, reference the story arc from the Bruce Timm animated series. That was dark enough.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
As the AICN article states, I think Robinov's comments stem from the fact that he probably doesn't know anything about these characters to begin with and is thus following his simplistic "copy what already made money" model. Also, let's not forget that this was the same brain surgeon who shelved the Wonder Woman movie after Jodie Foster's Death Wish rip off "The Brave One" tanked with critics and audiences. Robinov rationalized that to mean that women couldn't carry movies. 8-)
The guy's a boob, a bean-counting suit who has delusions of being an auter that guides his filmmakers to achieve a necessary vision. There's little doubt about that in my mind and I seriously doubt he he could tell the difference between Green Lantern and a Coleman Lantern. If he had brain one he would have at least killed that Supermax story once and for all. Hopefully, in a best case scenario, the filmmakers will just tell him what he wants to hear, and then when he goes back to his penthouse they'll just make their own movie and ignore his "input".
I'll admit that I don't know much of the guy nor his decisions but he sounds like he might be a pill and gets off on barking out any thought that comes to mind no matter how stupid.
Your last paragraph is exactly what I'm hoping will transpire. I just don't think that they'll go all Dark Shadows with Superman...
*crosses fingers*
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Smith also offered hilarious insight into the absurdity of big business Hollywood when he talked about his ill-fated stab at writing the still-unproduced "Superman" script for legendary hairdresser-turned-producer Jon Peters. Smith told the story of how he drove to Peters' fortress in the Hollywood Hills, a mansion reminiscent of the Batcave, and discussed with Peters the direction of the "Superman" film. According to Smith, Peters wanted to cast Sean Penn as the superhero, he didn't want Superman to fly and he didn't want Superman to wear a superhero suit. Peters also envisioned a huge spider playing into the action, Smith said. Bemused, Smith took a stab at the story, collected a hefty paycheck and ultimately, the film languished in development hell. Smith realized the next summer, as he sat in a theater watching "Wild Wild West," which Peters produced, that the high-powered producer had gotten his giant spider. Everyone wins and loses in Hollywood.
All of a sudden, Superman Returns doesn't look quite as bad, does it. Hopefully saner heads will prevail this time as well. Here's the full article:
http://www.indiewire.com/biz/biz_001212_K.Smith.html
I don't know, I just found that hilarious.
I just want a hard-hitting, faithful to the source material & costume, no kid having Superman flick. How hard is that?
I mean is that too much to ask? We wouldn't be having this discussion if Singer hadn't gone all mushy with this last attempt.
To think positively, they'll get their act together. Can't say that the news on all of this isn't interesting.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Apparently it's the children of past members of Thor, Black Panther, Hawkeye, Cap & others. I'm sure this will appeal to many kids in hope of a future tv series if sales and feedback are positive and a few diehard fanboys will warm to it.
It is cool to see the long time villian Ultron finally make an appearance though. Only original members, a geezer-ish looking Tony Stark and Bruce Banner, were smart enough to wear "protection".
The animation looks okay in an angular Timmlike way. I might pick this one up for the kid to watch. Here's the trailer for it:
http://www.lionsgate.com/nextavengers/?gclid=CJGErN-AqZUCFQNHFQodVzrKdQ
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Suuuuuure Rogue, whatever you say. I'm positive you have no interest in this at all
As for me, I'm not really interested in the whole "children as superheroes" angle - I couldn't get into Teen Titans or Legion of Superheroes for that reason actually. Of course I'm really not the target audience for something like this anyway.
I thought the coming of age thing worked very well for him but once he's on Earth, and the surprise factor has worn off, he's so Super there's no terrestrial he can fairly face up to, so he's no underdog. Supes II hit the ceiling quick with him battling three fellow Krytonians (?) and that worked but also peaked his Lois Lane relationship too soon, the sort of problem you can easily avoid with a week in week out comic of no particular time scale.
Those phoney electo Nuclear Man figures just don't work for me.
How bout the Russians clone Supey and he can do battle with himself over Georgia or something?
Roger Moore 1927-2017
How about Bizarro?
Mongul: an alien warlord who once tried to turn Earth into a giant spaceship called WarWorld. While not particularly intelligent, physically he can match Superman.
Brainiac: recently reimagined to be a sentient supercomputer of Kryptonian design housed in a humanoid body. Incredibly intelligent and physically very powerful.
Metallo: a two bit crook who's brain was transplanted into a robot powered by Kryptonite.
The Cyborg: originally an astronaut named Hank Henshaw, his body was destroyed during a mission. His consciousness survived however and was able to assimilate and control machines and mechanical devices. He later discovered and bonded with the ship which had brought Superman to earth, giving him access to advanced Kryptonian hardware and Superman's DNA.
The Eradicator: an advanced AI construct from the Superman's home planet Krypton that attempted to transform Earth into a new Krypton. It later became a flesh and blood entity which shared Superman's powers and memories.
Darkseid: one of the most evil characters in the DC universe, ruler of a volcanic world called Apololips, always trying to take over or destroy Earth. Very intelligent, cunning (always has a plan) and physically imposing (he practically looks like he's made out of stone).
Doomsday: a largely mindless alien brute famous for temporarily "killing" Superman in the comics. The comics later revealed that Doomsday was actually a living weapon of Kryptonian heritage, designed by one of Superman's distant ancestors.
Also, on several occasions, Lex Luthor has been know to don exo-skeleton suits that gave him superior strength and other abilities so that he could go toe to to with Superman - far more interesting than another real estate scheme.
Any or all of the above could work as a villain in a future Superman movie, although some of their backgrounds would probably need to be simplified somewhat to make them fit within the context of a two hour movie.
Also, if WB plans to reboot the series, they could very well adapt a simplified version of the Death of Superman and Reign of the Superman storylines into a series of movies. Those storylines incorporated several of the characters mentioned above (Doomsday, Mongul, Cyborg, Eradicator).
Whatever happens, I hope we're not subjected to yet another "origin" story as I really think that's unnecessary with a character as well known as Superman. Just cut to the chase and the action.
EDIT: Thought I'd add in a pic of each villain mentioned.
I'm thinking of a Total Recall type treatment.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I understand where you're coming from NP, but don't forget that Superman himself is an alien from another world; he's already something of a sci-fi character. If audiences can buy the fact that he made it to Earth, then I don't think its too much of a leap to present a similarly extraterrestrial foe. If you went with somebody like The Eradicator or Brainiac, you could also exploit the angle that they too are from Krypton (which seemed to go over well with Zod & Co. from Superman II).
A similar thing happened with Dr Who in that once you had aliens landing in London it becomes a different genre and NOT set in the here and now as , obv , we know aliens haven't landed on Earth in the last few years. The fiction branches off.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
If you're going to introduce a more outlandish villain, you will need to educate the audience accordingly. That's where marketing and promotion come in. As for the film itself, you could also go the route of Superman I and II and use a prologue to introduce the baddies and the threat that they pose.
Like Darenhat said, the Kryptonite angle has been played to death and if you want to inject some new blood into this franchise then you have to figure out a way for Superman to roll up his sleeves up and throw a few punches. I don't think the audience will have as hard a time accepting a more fantastical villain as you may think. These are after all comic book characters we're talking about.
They should swallow some pride and get Paul Dini or Geoff Johns on a script. They understand the Superman mythos.
Another villian that should make at least a brief appearance similar to The Scarecrow in TDK, is TOYMAN. No, not the nice, grandfather version from the 40s-60s comics, nor that jokester-looking incarnation from the Superfriends cartoon...
I mean the creepy one from the Bruce Timm run.
That frozen mask and voice alone are unsettling because before this look, I never took TM seriously at all. I don't think that he could particularly carry an entire film on his own but for the new direction, he can be dark.
I'd like to see him in a sequel with the outrageous gadgets that could be created. It might not be smart to play up the pedophile thing with him though...with kids watching and all.
If I recall SUPERMAN: Doomsday tackled this Toyman vice and for a cartoon, that was considerably dark in tone.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
This guy looks awesome. I've got to get into comics on a more regular basis.
He looks disturbing I'll admit. This is a Superman villian? He deals with child molesters too?
I've vaguely heard of Toyman but never followed the character in anything.
What helps make him so disturbing is you never see his actual face. You're just left with that vacuous grin and stare.
Don't look for the molestation subplot to ever come out anytime soon with Superman though; I wouldn't put it past Nolan if he were to suggest it in a future Batman sequel.
Toyman invents theses really OTT toys that are deadly in their own right. Like a giant rubber ducky that fires missles or machine gun fire from its mouth. These things in itself more than compensate for the fact that he can't square off with Supes physically. I don't 100% feel that the character could carry an entire film by himself but that would be up to how good the writer is.
Here's a clip to how cool & sick Timm's Toyman is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSNUIXxRvvM
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
This latest snafu by WB is quickly gaining as much hate in the fanboy community as their proposed Justice Leauge movie (you know, the one that wanted to cast world-famous thespian Armie Hammer Jr. as Batman).
Here's a link to the full article:
http://stars.ign.com/articles/902/902337p1.html
I read everyone of those fanboy comments and it was pretty much a split decision give or take.
I still blame & remain angry at Bryan Singer because had he come up with something more substaintial than this piece of *** film, would we really be debating WB's idiotic announcement last week? No.
When a hero as iconic as Superman has a nearly 20-year hiatus from cinema, it's a no-brainer that you have to come back hard. Singer didn't do that. But if he is willing to erase that damn kid and put one of those heavyweight baddies listed above on this thread, I might be more open to seeing him get another chance.
I have a strong feeling that Singer is the unbending type when it comes to his "artistic brilliance" and won't be willing to change a thing. He won't outright admit that he screwed this film up. X-(
It's either that or he really didn't have a clue what Superman was all about in the first place.
I'm starting to believe the latter.
Please, if the studio is up in arms about which direction to take the character, just put him on the shelf for awhile and develop the other viables in the DCU. It's not rocket science, so why all the drama?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
He was pretty defiant in blaming everyone but himself for SR's less than stellar performance. I don't think he's a Superman fan so much as a fan of that first Donner movie. I could very well be wrong, but my gut tells me that he's done with Superman and we'll be getting another reboot. Of course, The Incredible Hulk showed us that rebooting a recently released movie doesn't always pan out as well as you hope it will. Maybe they'll pull a Judi Dench in CR, ie: keep Routh but ditch all reference to past movies and surround him with an entirely new cast.
Based on the Wall Street Journal article, I think it's safe to say that even WB understands what the problems with the last one were, though their proposed solutions are another matter. It is hard to believe that nobody at WB can craft a suitably acceptable story given Superman's long history and deep rogues gallery. How this next movie turns out will probably depend on who they finally give it to.
Here's the link:
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/905/905822p1.html
If Marvel wants to recoup some of their costs for this movie, they'd better release the 70 minutes of unseen footage. No need in getting skimpy now.
In either case, I'm buying my copy as soon as they're put on shelves. I'm going to need a high-def set though to really appreciate the CGI...which was fantastic BTW. B-)
I enjoyed THE INCREDIBLE HULK a great deal (I felt as if I were friggin' 12 years old again during the action scenes) and I rank it quite high on my 2008 movies list but not only is the character a questionable draw as suggested here earlier, I give Marvel some of the blame for not pimping the movie enough. Iron Man had a whole year to build its hype so by the time January-February came around, it was a done deal that it would be a HUGE ticket draw because everyone, including non-comic fans, were revved to see it.
TIH's marketing campaign was horrible and they made no efforts to discern the fact that this wasn't a direct sequel to Ang Lee's 2003 version. Commercials just 2 weeks before its release? That's a joke.
I remember looking at the trailer before IM and hearing a few whispers in the audience that they had no idea that they were even making a new Hulk movie.
The big, green guy deserves a sequel but if Marvel wants to see more than generous returns on the dvd release, adding that infamous footage might help.
You can argue that Hulk isn't that desirable to see in theatres if you want but did you know as far as merchandise, comics, etc. are concerned, he is Marvel's second highest cashcow just behind the teary-eyed Spider-Man. That make you happy, Dan? :v
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -