RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited April 2009
Sam Raimi talks with SCIFIWIRE about the next installment in the Spider-Man franchise and from what I can make out in the article, I expect more emo angst from the webslinger... He'll probably keep his mask off more than usual. 8-)
That should make Dan happy.
Here's an excerpt:
Spider-Man director Sam Raimi told reporters that he will meet with Kirsten Dunst soon to talk about her reprising the role of Mary Jane Watson in the upcoming fourth installment of the superhero franchise.
"I'm hoping that she is going to come aboard, and I've got a meeting coming up with her," Raimi said in a group interview last week in Beverly Hills, Calif., where he was promoting his upcoming horror film Drag Me to Hell. "I think she would like to. But I don't want to speak on behalf of her."
Following is an edited version of our interview with Raimi, who also talked about a proposed new Evil Dead movie. Drag Me to Hell opens May 29. Spider-Man 4 is eyeing a May 6, 2011, release.
Q: With the advent of The Dark Knight and Watchmen, do you expect that Spider-Man 4 will be a little darker and edgier, too?
Raimi: Whatever it is, I think will be a direct result of the best style to bring about our writer's screenplay. And as soon as I read that, I will know what that is. Edgy could be a direction, but I don't think it will be applied without really understanding the character's journey from the inside out first and then figuring out the best way to bring that about.
And then, as far as the other influences, making it different from the other films, ... I hope we don't react to these very good and sometimes bad superhero movies around us. I hope that we just [look] ever deeper into the truth of who Peter Parker really is—as a human being and the unique character, and that we celebrate that, which is a lot of the reason I want to make this next picture. I still believe I have an understanding of Peter Parker as the character that I have not quite put onto the screen yet.
I'm not talking about Tobey Maguire's performance, which I very much love; I'm talking about my understanding of the character. I feel like sometimes a kid at the piano recital. And I know this piece really well. I know it by heart. And I sometimes get it right, and sometimes I don't. But I want a chance to really play it the way I feel it. So I'm hoping it's a really good screenplay and I can express the character through that. I've got a really good writer [David Lindsay-Abaire]. ...
The way I read that: he wants to give us another generous helping of angst and emo and everybody stepping all over the Pathetic Peter Parker before he gets his act together and saves Mary Jane from some terrible peril in the third act. 8-)
I really wish Raimi would step aside and let somebody else take a stab at this character. This is one case where a little less slavish adherence to the comic might actually be a good thing.
NightshooterIn bed with SolitairePosts: 2,917MI6 Agent
You guys are reading way too much into that excerpt.
That having been said, I think Spiderman could use a reboot. I want Spiderman to start in high school!
It does. I love Raimi; IMO he's one of the greatest directors of all time, and he can sure teach Nolan a few things about style, so I think this is amazing news. The only film of his which I was disappointed with was Spider-Man 3 and I feel confident that the first two Spider-Man films will end up amond the very most acclaimed comic-book films of all time.
Anyway, I just have three requests: only have one villain (or at least write a better screenplay that could justify the muliple villains), don't have Peter go evil again, and forget that Spider-Man 3 even exists.
Following is an edited version of our interview with Raimi, who also talked about a proposed new Evil Dead movie. Drag Me to Hell opens May 29.
I haven't yet seen it, but I don't think that SCIFIWIRE is correct about this being an Evil Dead film. He has a remake of The Evil Dead due out in 2010. Should be awesome.
The way I read that: he wants to give us another generous helping of angst and emo and everybody stepping all over the Pathetic Peter Parker before he gets his act together and saves Mary Jane from some terrible peril in the third act. 8-)
Wonderful, can't wait. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
The way I read that: he wants to give us another generous helping of angst and emo and everybody stepping all over the Pathetic Peter Parker before he gets his act together and saves Mary Jane from some terrible peril in the third act. 8-)
I really wish Raimi would step aside and let somebody else take a stab at this character. This is one case where a little less slavish adherence to the comic might actually be a good thing.
My favourite Spider-Man comics, from the late '60s-early '70s, featured a Peter Parker that might now be viewed as 'emo.' Putting an essentially 'ordinary' young man---with an ordinary young man's problems and burdens---in the costume was Stan Lee's stated intention. To me, that's why the films work so exceedingly well: the spirit of the books was effectively captured (esp. with the first two).
I think Raimi deserves the helm as long as he wants it...and as long as the pictures continue to be successful.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
My favourite Spider-Man comics, from the late '60s-early '70s, featured a Peter Parker that might now be viewed as 'emo.' Putting an essentially 'ordinary' young man---with an ordinary young man's problems and burdens---in the costume was Stan Lee's stated intention. To me, that's why the films work so exceedingly well: the spirit of the books was effectively captured (esp. with the first two).
I used to be an avid Spiderman reader in the 70s as well and while it's possible that my memories are being filtered thru the prism of nostalgia, I just don't remember him being the dishrag that Raimi makes him out to be in his movies. He definitely had his issues but I just don't remember him being stepped on and humiliated every 5 seconds like he was in that scene from Spiderman II where Mary Jane and Jameson's son announce their engagement for example. I just think the movies lay the whole suffering thing on way too thick and it really hurts the replayability of those movies for me.
I think Raimi deserves the helm as long as he wants it...and as long as the pictures continue to be successful.
I've been reading that Sony is thinking of making the next Spiderman movie in 3D. Personally, I find that an intriguing idea as the characters and situations they get into would definitely lend themselves to that technology.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
My favourite Spider-Man comics, from the late '60s-early '70s, featured a Peter Parker that might now be viewed as 'emo.' Putting an essentially 'ordinary' young man---with an ordinary young man's problems and burdens---in the costume was Stan Lee's stated intention. To me, that's why the films work so exceedingly well: the spirit of the books was effectively captured (esp. with the first two).
I think Raimi deserves the helm as long as he wants it...and as long as the pictures continue to be successful.
Loeff, I read Spider-Man quite religously in the 1970s & 1980s (#95-208 particularly), read the Ditko reprints & the old issues currently in my possession, watched the 60s cartoon in syndication as a child like clockwork and I'm a fan of the 90s animated series that I still look at. In no way was Peter Parker portrayed in such a pathetic vein in those three formats.
I remember him rolling with the punches alot more manlier in the books than he does in the Raimi films. The 1st Spidey movie was as good as it got; the other two have really tarnished the hero to the point where I cannot sympathize with the director's vision.
Maybe with age I've gotten out of touch with the texture of the subtext but I'm certain that Parker wasn't a sniveling little wimp who couldn't keep his mask on. Also, If my comic book knowledge serves me right, Spider-Man cannot stop a runaway L train; that's always bothered me. 8-)
And I read somewhere that Raimi is frantically trying to convince Dunst to come back for a 4th installment stating that it wouldn't be the same without her. God, I hope she doesn't come back.
The Mary Jane I knew from the comics was hot...at least that is how I've gauged her looks from artist John Romita Sr. and Ross Andru's renderings. Of course this part of my arguement is mainly superficial.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Thanks for pointing this out Rogue; I was afraid that it was just my memory playing tricks with me but I'm happy to see that I wasn't completely off base with my feelings.
As for Dunst, she doesn't physically resemble MJ from the comics, but I didn't have much trouble with her looks. Its her constant whining, crying and need to interject her singing and other "talents" into the films that bugs me. Again, from what I remember of the books, I thought MJ was a much stronger character than what we get on screen.
I've also got so say, as these actors are all in their mid 30s, they are probably getting too old to convincingly play Parker and MJ as if they're still fresh out of college. Given Maguire's height (barely 5'8") and slight frame, they probably feel the need to keep the charcters in that age bracket but I think that could start to work against them.
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Thanks for pointing this out Rogue; I was afraid that it was just my memory playing tricks with me but I'm happy to see that I wasn't completely off base with my feelings.
No you weren't off from where I'm standing; I thought the same thing.
And before I forget to Loeff: Please understand that I'm not calling out your aptitude on the character into question, my friend. I know that you've read countless Spider-Man comics in your youth as you've claimed in past posts and perhaps we each took something differently from how we percieved the character. Happens all of the time now and again.
It's really hard for me nowadays to really appreciate Spidey as I once did when I was more Nightshooter's age because there isn't much for me to connect with. However as Tony as said, I'm looking at the character through the prism of nostalgia myself and Parker still had a better handle on his cumbersome personal life than he ever did in the Raimi films.
I find myself constantly correcting my young art students to Spider-Man's level of strength thanks to Raimi meddling with the mythos and that train sequence in SM2. They all think that he's as powerful as Superman and could take him.
Just ain't so.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited April 2009
Well... 8-) I see Bond differently than you boys...I guess it's hardly surprising that I remember Spider-Man differently, too. Peter Parker's personal life was always on the verge of flying apart---that's what so distinguished him from guys like Bruce Wayne, who were essentially unflappable whether they had the costume on or not.
I just can't compete with your festering dislike for Tobey McGuire Plus I think I'm out of my depth in this arena, so I should probably just keep my mouth closed...I'm no 'expert' on comics---only a lifelong fan who's drifted away since the kids and mortgage co-opted that portion of my disposable income.
I find McGuire's performance spot-on, and IMNO he's largely responsible (in direct proportion to Sam Raimi's presentation of the material) for the franchise's great success.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Well... 8-) I see Bond differently than you boys...I guess it's hardly surprising that I remember Spider-Man differently, too. Peter Parker's personal life was always on the verge of flying apart---that's what so distinguished him from guys like Bruce Wayne, who were essentially unflappable whether they had the costume on or not.
Clearly you haven't read many Batman comics. )
Unflappable? Bruce Wayne? That noun can only apply to the Bruce Wayne of the 1940-50s when the infamous Comics Code was policing the medium so heavily.
Characters like Bruce Wayne and yes, his Marvel counterpart Tony Stark are anything but unflappable, Loeff. They've got tons of flap!
Moreso than Peter Parker depending on whom you ask.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Characters like Bruce Wayne and yes, his Marvel counterpart Tony Stark are anything but unflappable, Loeff. They've got tons of flap!
Would some of Stark's flap include, I believe, that he was an alcoholic?
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Characters like Bruce Wayne and yes, his Marvel counterpart Tony Stark are anything but unflappable, Loeff. They've got tons of flap!
Would some of Stark's flap include, I believe, that he was an alcoholic?
Among other things like not being more trustworthy of those closest to him (Rhodey & Pepper)that ended with poor results.
Bruce Wayne was the same way and there were times that I was really ticked off at the character...and I'm a Batman fanboy.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Among other things like not being more trustworthy of those closest to him (Rhodey & Pepper)that ended with poor results.
Bruce Wayne was the same way and there were times that I was really ticked off at the character...and I'm a Batman fanboy.
If anything, it does make them more human, but I certainly can imagine that if they are too flappable, it can be quite annoying.
Yes, I know that certain people :v would argue that Peter Parker in the films was too flappable, but for me it only became a problem in the third film. Now, one could argue that he wasn't so much flappable as embarassing, but either way, it reminded me of Superman III; the only Superman film I can't bear to watch.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Unflappable? Bruce Wayne? That noun can only apply to the Bruce Wayne of the 1940-50s
...
This is my favourite character; I own and have read hundres of issues, going back to the early '60s...and if you're saying that Bruce Wayne was an emo crybaby who had no control over anything in his life, we can truly agree on nothing. No wonder we see 007 with day-night divergence...!
I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about in this area; I'm wasting bandwidth. Signing off.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Unflappable? Bruce Wayne? That noun can only apply to the Bruce Wayne of the 1940-50s
...
This is my favourite character...and if you're saying that Bruce Wayne was an emo crybaby who had no control over anything in his life, we can truly agree on nothing.
I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about. Signing off.
C'mon, Loeff, don't take your proverbial ball and go home.
There are more ways for a character to be indigestable than one who pours out a pathetic tearfest when his whiny girlfriend fake dumps him.
Bruce Wayne was realistically flawed in other ways. There were times that I sympathized with his plight and there were others when I downright detested him. Let's not fight about this; it doesn't do either one of us any good. ;%
You do realize that Parker wasn't the only superhero who couldn't pay his electric bill don't you?
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited April 2009
I really shouldn't post here. Comic books are worse than politics---with much less import on a per-argument basis {:)
I'd thought that the debate had been framed by the assertion that Peter Parker wasn't an ordinary guy with personal problems back in the classic Spiderman books of my childhood. My point was that Peter Parker differentiated from Bruce Wayne in that he did have such problems.
If Millionaire Playboy Bruce Wayne wasn't unflappable---by comparison to broke-ass Peter Parker and his girl/school/money troubles---then nobody in the comic book world has ever been unflappable. The issue of being 'realistically flawed' applies much more to Parker than to Wayne---in my own uneducated, unqualified, novice, etc., et al., opinion.
There are layers and degrees to such debates (especially here!!!), but if a distinction can't be drawn between these two very different characters, then the entire debate becomes highly suspect (read: not for me).
I am so done here.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I really shouldn't post here. Comic books are worse than politics.
I'd thought that the debate had been framed by the assertion that Peter Parker wasn't an ordinary guy with personal problems back in the classic Spiderman books of my childhood. My point was that Peter Parker differentiated from Bruce Wayne in that he did have such problems.
If Millionaire Playboy Bruce Wayne wasn't unflappable---by comparison to broke-ass Peter Parker and his girl/school/money troubles---then nobody in the comic book world has ever been unflappable. The issue of being 'realistically flawed' applies much more to Parker than to Wayne---in my own uneducated, unqualified, novice, etc., et al., opinion.
There are layers and degrees to such debates (especially here!!!), but if a distinction can't be drawn between these two very different characters, then the entire debate becomes highly suspect (read: not for me).
I am so done here.
Please, Loeff, not trying to fight with you here-I'm really not- but your argument was framed in the context of one's life coming apart at the seams: Which you thought made one character more engrossing than the other. Couldn't that apply to those finacially endowed like Wayne? Or Stark? Or Oliver Queen? You generalized when you said "unflappable" when you tried to compare the two.
One can't pay his rent, the other can buy the tenement. Doesn't make one less interesting than the other.
All we were saying is that Raimi has milked the emo factor to death with the character when it comes to the films.
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Please, Loeff, not trying to fight with you here but your argument was framed in the context of one's life coming apart at the seams: Which you thought made one character more engrossing than the other.
I never said that it made one more engrossing---or less interesting---than the other...I merely said that it distinguished one from the other.
You don't think the SM films reflect this aspect of Parker in the books...I do. And again, if we can't at least agree that there's an obvious difference between the two characters in question, the debate isn't worth having for me. So I won't have it.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I'm not even going to try and get involved in this discussion.
Just going to add that the greatest movie about comic books (wich is different from the greatest comic book movie) in my opinion has to be Chasing Amy.
If you love comic books and haven't seen it, I truly recommend it.
"Christ, I miss the Cold War."
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
I'm not even going to try and get involved in this discussion.
Very wise of you...if only I shared your wisdom
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
O.K.,
I really don't want to get involved here as I realize either Rogue or Loeff have FORGOTTEN way more about comics than I will ever know. This is probably poking a hornets nest that is best now left dorment. {:) But, the semantics of this debate are kinda driving me bonkers.
Quite a while back I attended a Q#A with Stan Lee at the Cinerama Dome in L.A. This very issue was discussed. To cut a long story short...He said that it was always his intention to create a character that, unlike other iconic characters, teenagers who were reading his stories COULD ACTUALLY IDENTIFY WITH. He wanted a character who was actually experiencing the problems that his readers were dealing with, AND , being a super heroe on top of that !!! B-) That, I think, is the difference in the "flappable" qualities we're discussing here. As flawed, and troubled ( almost on a Shakespearean level)as Bruce and others like him (maybe even our own beloved Mr. Bond) are, their problems may not be as IMMEDIATELY identifiable as the known travails of your average teeanager.
Now, whether you think Mr. Raimi or Toby Mcguire brings these sensabilities successfully to the screen is REALLY up for debate. Personally, I think they bring it spot on. But, that's me..
Anyway, hope this helps...
Not makes it worse ... ;%
RogueAgentSpeeding in the Tumbler...Posts: 3,676MI6 Agent
edited April 2009
Yes, thank you, Another; no harm done . Yes, I've heard Stan Lee say this too: not only in most of the dvds pertaining to Spider-Man but also in a Q&A that I attended in Baltimore one year while doing a convention. That doesn't mean that Parker is supposed to be whiny little snot as Maguire portrays him as with all of the tearing up and emo music. Just means that he has it like every other Joe doing the day to day thing.
Maybe I'm crazy but while re-arranging some of my old comic book titles last month, I read some of those books I bought back in the 70s (#173-179)-(#185-197) and I'm pretty certain movie Parker and comic book Parker are different.
Now I may be guilty of not identifying with the teenager aspect of the character now after all of these years but comic Parker was edgier than the cinematic one. Just seemed that way.
Actually, with the cast getting up in age now, it might be wise to reboot the franchise instead. Just my opinion...
One thing between the comics and the movies that Raimi held true to was the fact that Aunt May was a complete nuisance. Grey Panthers. )
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Seeing as my post started this whole Spiderman fracas, I'm going to now bring it to an end in the qucikest, most efficient way possible: by posting a picture of a scantily clad babe (from a comic book movie of course. Gotta stay on topic. :v )
It looks like Jonah Hex has already started filming and while there are no shots of Josh Brolin as Hex yet, AICN did have a pic of Megan Fox from the set in appropriate western attire.
Now be truthful Rogue, do you still have trouble picturing her as Wonder Woman?
She looks good in that picture I will admit. What irks me about Fox is that she seems to "overdo the sexy" so to speak instead of just letting it come out naturally. She really doesn't have to try hard at all...
Where are her tats? ?:)
And when are we going to finally see pics of Brolin as Jonah Hex? Ledger's Joker pictures were leaked faster than this. X-(
Mrs. Man Face: "You wouldn't hit a lady? Would you?"
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice isUNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Now be truthful Rogue, do you still have trouble picturing her as Wonder Woman?
She looks good in that picture I will admit. What irks me about Fox is that she seems to "overdo the sexy" so to speak instead of just letting it come out naturally. She really doesn't have to try hard at all...
I'll take that as a "No". )
I've noticed that when she doesn't realize she's being photographed, she's more relaxed and appealing and not so intent in overdoing the sexy thing.
She is starting to fill out nicely as she gets older. If she could just get her head screwed on straight I think her plus a decent Wonder Woman script could equal another DC/WB hit.
Where are her tats? ?:)
Tastefully airbrushed away or otherwise hidden by strategically placed clothing ... as they should be.
And when are we going to finally see pics of Brolin as Jonah Hex? Ledger's Joker pictures were leaked faster than this. X-(
I think the filmmakers are going to do their darndest to hold back pictures of Hex until they can educate the audience a little bit on the character. He's an unknown commodity with the mainstream public and with that face of his, he's apt to scare people away unless they first realize that he's the protagonist, not the bad guy.
Speaking of Jonah Hex, I've read that Thomas Jane was up for the lead at one point and he even participated in some impromptu makeup tests. Though he never got the part, he has confirmed that this pic of him as Hex is legit (though even he doesn't know how it made it onto the web). It might give some insight into how the character will eventually look in a live action movie.
Comments
That should make Dan happy.
Here's an excerpt:
Spider-Man director Sam Raimi told reporters that he will meet with Kirsten Dunst soon to talk about her reprising the role of Mary Jane Watson in the upcoming fourth installment of the superhero franchise.
"I'm hoping that she is going to come aboard, and I've got a meeting coming up with her," Raimi said in a group interview last week in Beverly Hills, Calif., where he was promoting his upcoming horror film Drag Me to Hell. "I think she would like to. But I don't want to speak on behalf of her."
Following is an edited version of our interview with Raimi, who also talked about a proposed new Evil Dead movie. Drag Me to Hell opens May 29. Spider-Man 4 is eyeing a May 6, 2011, release.
Q: With the advent of The Dark Knight and Watchmen, do you expect that Spider-Man 4 will be a little darker and edgier, too?
Raimi: Whatever it is, I think will be a direct result of the best style to bring about our writer's screenplay. And as soon as I read that, I will know what that is. Edgy could be a direction, but I don't think it will be applied without really understanding the character's journey from the inside out first and then figuring out the best way to bring that about.
And then, as far as the other influences, making it different from the other films, ... I hope we don't react to these very good and sometimes bad superhero movies around us. I hope that we just [look] ever deeper into the truth of who Peter Parker really is—as a human being and the unique character, and that we celebrate that, which is a lot of the reason I want to make this next picture. I still believe I have an understanding of Peter Parker as the character that I have not quite put onto the screen yet.
I'm not talking about Tobey Maguire's performance, which I very much love; I'm talking about my understanding of the character. I feel like sometimes a kid at the piano recital. And I know this piece really well. I know it by heart. And I sometimes get it right, and sometimes I don't. But I want a chance to really play it the way I feel it. So I'm hoping it's a really good screenplay and I can express the character through that. I've got a really good writer [David Lindsay-Abaire]. ...
http://scifiwire.com/2009/04/sam-raimi-to-meet-with-ki.php
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I really wish Raimi would step aside and let somebody else take a stab at this character. This is one case where a little less slavish adherence to the comic might actually be a good thing.
That having been said, I think Spiderman could use a reboot. I want Spiderman to start in high school!
Anyway, I just have three requests: only have one villain (or at least write a better screenplay that could justify the muliple villains), don't have Peter go evil again, and forget that Spider-Man 3 even exists.
I haven't yet seen it, but I don't think that SCIFIWIRE is correct about this being an Evil Dead film. He has a remake of The Evil Dead due out in 2010. Should be awesome.
Wonderful, can't wait.
My favourite Spider-Man comics, from the late '60s-early '70s, featured a Peter Parker that might now be viewed as 'emo.' Putting an essentially 'ordinary' young man---with an ordinary young man's problems and burdens---in the costume was Stan Lee's stated intention. To me, that's why the films work so exceedingly well: the spirit of the books was effectively captured (esp. with the first two).
I think Raimi deserves the helm as long as he wants it...and as long as the pictures continue to be successful.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I used to be an avid Spiderman reader in the 70s as well and while it's possible that my memories are being filtered thru the prism of nostalgia, I just don't remember him being the dishrag that Raimi makes him out to be in his movies. He definitely had his issues but I just don't remember him being stepped on and humiliated every 5 seconds like he was in that scene from Spiderman II where Mary Jane and Jameson's son announce their engagement for example. I just think the movies lay the whole suffering thing on way too thick and it really hurts the replayability of those movies for me.
I've been reading that Sony is thinking of making the next Spiderman movie in 3D. Personally, I find that an intriguing idea as the characters and situations they get into would definitely lend themselves to that technology.
Loeff, I read Spider-Man quite religously in the 1970s & 1980s (#95-208 particularly), read the Ditko reprints & the old issues currently in my possession, watched the 60s cartoon in syndication as a child like clockwork and I'm a fan of the 90s animated series that I still look at. In no way was Peter Parker portrayed in such a pathetic vein in those three formats.
I remember him rolling with the punches alot more manlier in the books than he does in the Raimi films. The 1st Spidey movie was as good as it got; the other two have really tarnished the hero to the point where I cannot sympathize with the director's vision.
Maybe with age I've gotten out of touch with the texture of the subtext but I'm certain that Parker wasn't a sniveling little wimp who couldn't keep his mask on. Also, If my comic book knowledge serves me right, Spider-Man cannot stop a runaway L train; that's always bothered me. 8-)
And I read somewhere that Raimi is frantically trying to convince Dunst to come back for a 4th installment stating that it wouldn't be the same without her. God, I hope she doesn't come back.
The Mary Jane I knew from the comics was hot...at least that is how I've gauged her looks from artist John Romita Sr. and Ross Andru's renderings. Of course this part of my arguement is mainly superficial.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
As for Dunst, she doesn't physically resemble MJ from the comics, but I didn't have much trouble with her looks. Its her constant whining, crying and need to interject her singing and other "talents" into the films that bugs me. Again, from what I remember of the books, I thought MJ was a much stronger character than what we get on screen.
I've also got so say, as these actors are all in their mid 30s, they are probably getting too old to convincingly play Parker and MJ as if they're still fresh out of college. Given Maguire's height (barely 5'8") and slight frame, they probably feel the need to keep the charcters in that age bracket but I think that could start to work against them.
No you weren't off from where I'm standing; I thought the same thing.
And before I forget to Loeff: Please understand that I'm not calling out your aptitude on the character into question, my friend. I know that you've read countless Spider-Man comics in your youth as you've claimed in past posts and perhaps we each took something differently from how we percieved the character. Happens all of the time now and again.
It's really hard for me nowadays to really appreciate Spidey as I once did when I was more Nightshooter's age because there isn't much for me to connect with. However as Tony as said, I'm looking at the character through the prism of nostalgia myself and Parker still had a better handle on his cumbersome personal life than he ever did in the Raimi films.
I find myself constantly correcting my young art students to Spider-Man's level of strength thanks to Raimi meddling with the mythos and that train sequence in SM2. They all think that he's as powerful as Superman and could take him.
Just ain't so.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I just can't compete with your festering dislike for Tobey McGuire
I find McGuire's performance spot-on, and IMNO he's largely responsible (in direct proportion to Sam Raimi's presentation of the material) for the franchise's great success.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Clearly you haven't read many Batman comics.
Unflappable? Bruce Wayne? That noun can only apply to the Bruce Wayne of the 1940-50s when the infamous Comics Code was policing the medium so heavily.
Characters like Bruce Wayne and yes, his Marvel counterpart Tony Stark are anything but unflappable, Loeff. They've got tons of flap!
Moreso than Peter Parker depending on whom you ask.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Among other things like not being more trustworthy of those closest to him (Rhodey & Pepper)that ended with poor results.
Bruce Wayne was the same way and there were times that I was really ticked off at the character...and I'm a Batman fanboy.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Yes, I know that certain people :v would argue that Peter Parker in the films was too flappable, but for me it only became a problem in the third film. Now, one could argue that he wasn't so much flappable as embarassing, but either way, it reminded me of Superman III; the only Superman film I can't bear to watch.
...
This is my favourite character; I own and have read hundres of issues, going back to the early '60s...and if you're saying that Bruce Wayne was an emo crybaby who had no control over anything in his life, we can truly agree on nothing. No wonder we see 007 with day-night divergence...!
I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about in this area; I'm wasting bandwidth. Signing off.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
C'mon, Loeff, don't take your proverbial ball and go home.
There are more ways for a character to be indigestable than one who pours out a pathetic tearfest when his whiny girlfriend fake dumps him.
Bruce Wayne was realistically flawed in other ways. There were times that I sympathized with his plight and there were others when I downright detested him. Let's not fight about this; it doesn't do either one of us any good. ;%
You do realize that Parker wasn't the only superhero who couldn't pay his electric bill don't you?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'd thought that the debate had been framed by the assertion that Peter Parker wasn't an ordinary guy with personal problems back in the classic Spiderman books of my childhood. My point was that Peter Parker differentiated from Bruce Wayne in that he did have such problems.
If Millionaire Playboy Bruce Wayne wasn't unflappable---by comparison to broke-ass Peter Parker and his girl/school/money troubles---then nobody in the comic book world has ever been unflappable. The issue of being 'realistically flawed' applies much more to Parker than to Wayne---in my own uneducated, unqualified, novice, etc., et al., opinion.
There are layers and degrees to such debates (especially here!!!), but if a distinction can't be drawn between these two very different characters, then the entire debate becomes highly suspect (read: not for me).
I am so done here.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Please, Loeff, not trying to fight with you here-I'm really not- but your argument was framed in the context of one's life coming apart at the seams: Which you thought made one character more engrossing than the other. Couldn't that apply to those finacially endowed like Wayne? Or Stark? Or Oliver Queen? You generalized when you said "unflappable" when you tried to compare the two.
One can't pay his rent, the other can buy the tenement. Doesn't make one less interesting than the other.
All we were saying is that Raimi has milked the emo factor to death with the character when it comes to the films.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I never said that it made one more engrossing---or less interesting---than the other...I merely said that it distinguished one from the other.
You don't think the SM films reflect this aspect of Parker in the books...I do. And again, if we can't at least agree that there's an obvious difference between the two characters in question, the debate isn't worth having for me. So I won't have it.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Just going to add that the greatest movie about comic books (wich is different from the greatest comic book movie) in my opinion has to be Chasing Amy.
If you love comic books and haven't seen it, I truly recommend it.
Yeah, right..."distinguished"
This distinguished enough for you?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Very wise of you...if only I shared your wisdom
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Yeah, weren't you supposed to stop posting here a few posts back? Comics like politics?
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
Believe it.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I really don't want to get involved here as I realize either Rogue or Loeff have FORGOTTEN way more about comics than I will ever know. This is probably poking a hornets nest that is best now left dorment. {:) But, the semantics of this debate are kinda driving me bonkers.
Quite a while back I attended a Q#A with Stan Lee at the Cinerama Dome in L.A. This very issue was discussed. To cut a long story short...He said that it was always his intention to create a character that, unlike other iconic characters, teenagers who were reading his stories COULD ACTUALLY IDENTIFY WITH. He wanted a character who was actually experiencing the problems that his readers were dealing with, AND , being a super heroe on top of that !!! B-) That, I think, is the difference in the "flappable" qualities we're discussing here. As flawed, and troubled ( almost on a Shakespearean level)as Bruce and others like him (maybe even our own beloved Mr. Bond) are, their problems may not be as IMMEDIATELY identifiable as the known travails of your average teeanager.
Now, whether you think Mr. Raimi or Toby Mcguire brings these sensabilities successfully to the screen is REALLY up for debate. Personally, I think they bring it spot on. But, that's me..
Anyway, hope this helps...
Not makes it worse ... ;%
Maybe I'm crazy but while re-arranging some of my old comic book titles last month, I read some of those books I bought back in the 70s (#173-179)-(#185-197) and I'm pretty certain movie Parker and comic book Parker are different.
Now I may be guilty of not identifying with the teenager aspect of the character now after all of these years but comic Parker was edgier than the cinematic one. Just seemed that way.
Actually, with the cast getting up in age now, it might be wise to reboot the franchise instead. Just my opinion...
One thing between the comics and the movies that Raimi held true to was the fact that Aunt May was a complete nuisance. Grey Panthers.
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
It looks like Jonah Hex has already started filming and while there are no shots of Josh Brolin as Hex yet, AICN did have a pic of Megan Fox from the set in appropriate western attire.
Here's the pic:
Here's the link to the full article:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/40900
Now be truthful Rogue, do you still have trouble picturing her as Wonder Woman?
She looks good in that picture I will admit. What irks me about Fox is that she seems to "overdo the sexy" so to speak instead of just letting it come out naturally. She really doesn't have to try hard at all...
Where are her tats? ?:)
And when are we going to finally see pics of Brolin as Jonah Hex? Ledger's Joker pictures were leaked faster than this. X-(
Batman: "The Hammer Of Justice is UNISEX!"
-Batman: The Brave & The Bold -
I'll take that as a "No".
I've noticed that when she doesn't realize she's being photographed, she's more relaxed and appealing and not so intent in overdoing the sexy thing.
She is starting to fill out nicely as she gets older. If she could just get her head screwed on straight I think her plus a decent Wonder Woman script could equal another DC/WB hit.
Tastefully airbrushed away or otherwise hidden by strategically placed clothing ... as they should be.
I think the filmmakers are going to do their darndest to hold back pictures of Hex until they can educate the audience a little bit on the character. He's an unknown commodity with the mainstream public and with that face of his, he's apt to scare people away unless they first realize that he's the protagonist, not the bad guy.