The movies: evaluations, in tiers.
Klaus Hergescheimer
Posts: 332MI6 Agent
Most of us have a list of our favorite films in order, but how would you rank the films in tiers? Which films do you see as setting a certain standard of excellence, which do you see as good/solid, which as mediocre, which as weak, and which as the bottom of the pile?
Here's mine:
1st Tier:
From Russia With Love
Indisputable, in my book. It's the best film, the best novel, and quite simply, the best and quintessential Bond story ever told. Everything is perfect in this film. I doubt it possible for Bond to ever achieve this standard again.
2nd Tier:
Licence to Kill
The Living Daylights
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Dr. No
Thunderball
GoldenEye
This is the "some of the very best" category. Pretty much all of these movies have very Fleming-esque elements about them in a variety of senses (actor's portrayal, the plot, the tone, nuances in relations between characters, locales, aesthetics, etc) that are pulled off well. All have strong plots that are executed terrifically, all Bond performances were of fine form, and all have something unique or memorable about them that makes them garner notice.
Third Tier
For Your Eyes Only
The World Is Not Enough
Goldfinger
Tomorrow Never Dies
The Spy Who Loved Me
All of these films had strong features about them and were immensely entertaining. They had some elements of Fleming that were well-excecuted. These are films that had the potential to be among the very best in the above category, but had some flaws that held them back from that. (In some cases, some excessively silly scenes that are distracting; in others, way too much senseless bang and boom that, once again, is distracting; other reasons for some)
Fourth Tier
You Only Live Twice
Live and Let Die
Octopussy
Again, these are films that are a blast to watch, but they have some things that hold them back even more than the group above, be it execution of certain things, excess silliness, or some aesthetic things that are off. (For instance, in YOLT and OP, Connery and Moore, respectively, start to show some age)
Fifth Tier
A View To A Kill
Diamonds are Forever
The Man With The Golden Gun
Die Another Day
These films are assuredly mediocre as films go, but they are still fun to watch in spite of these mediocre characteristics.
Sixth Tier
Moonraker
In the top tier, we had one movie whose prominence will likely never be challenged, in my book. In the bottom tier, we have one movie whose standards of, shall we say, "sucktitude" will never be challenged.
Here's mine:
1st Tier:
From Russia With Love
Indisputable, in my book. It's the best film, the best novel, and quite simply, the best and quintessential Bond story ever told. Everything is perfect in this film. I doubt it possible for Bond to ever achieve this standard again.
2nd Tier:
Licence to Kill
The Living Daylights
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Dr. No
Thunderball
GoldenEye
This is the "some of the very best" category. Pretty much all of these movies have very Fleming-esque elements about them in a variety of senses (actor's portrayal, the plot, the tone, nuances in relations between characters, locales, aesthetics, etc) that are pulled off well. All have strong plots that are executed terrifically, all Bond performances were of fine form, and all have something unique or memorable about them that makes them garner notice.
Third Tier
For Your Eyes Only
The World Is Not Enough
Goldfinger
Tomorrow Never Dies
The Spy Who Loved Me
All of these films had strong features about them and were immensely entertaining. They had some elements of Fleming that were well-excecuted. These are films that had the potential to be among the very best in the above category, but had some flaws that held them back from that. (In some cases, some excessively silly scenes that are distracting; in others, way too much senseless bang and boom that, once again, is distracting; other reasons for some)
Fourth Tier
You Only Live Twice
Live and Let Die
Octopussy
Again, these are films that are a blast to watch, but they have some things that hold them back even more than the group above, be it execution of certain things, excess silliness, or some aesthetic things that are off. (For instance, in YOLT and OP, Connery and Moore, respectively, start to show some age)
Fifth Tier
A View To A Kill
Diamonds are Forever
The Man With The Golden Gun
Die Another Day
These films are assuredly mediocre as films go, but they are still fun to watch in spite of these mediocre characteristics.
Sixth Tier
Moonraker
In the top tier, we had one movie whose prominence will likely never be challenged, in my book. In the bottom tier, we have one movie whose standards of, shall we say, "sucktitude" will never be challenged.
Comments
1. Excellent; can't be topped
OP
TWINE
2. Personal favourites
TSWLM
TND
DAD
LTK
GE
3. Good, well made entries
FYEO
GF
FRWL
YOLT
4. OK entries
OHMSS
DAF
TLD
DN
MR
TB
5. Mediocre films; watch them only occasionally
AVTAK
TMWTGG
LALD
1st tier:
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
The Spy Who Loved Me
-the indisputable classics, for me at any rate. Hard for me to pick faults in any of these- pretty perfect.
2nd tier:
Dr No
Goldeneye
For Your Eyes Only
Licence To Kill
-not too far behind. Stellar in every department, really, but not quite top rung.
3rd tier:
You Only Live Twice
Octopussy
Live and Let Die
Tomorrow Never Dies
-still very good and entertaining, but some flaws, eg- overt silliness or slightly overlong sequences. Often trounces the opposition, nevertheless.
4th tier:
The Living Daylights
Thunderball
Diamonds Are Forever
A View To A Kill
-this is the awkward or routine category for me. These films are either overlong and padded out or don't have plots with much interest. Still quite entertaining fare, however.
5th tier:
The World Is Not Enough
Die Another Day
The Man With The Golden Gun
Moonraker
-imo, rather routine plods with too much flash and/or not enough substance- though TMWTGG, imho, has both flaws. It's just Moonraker is SO daft, for me anyway.
I'd be happy for that to sum up my fave Bond films in order, really.
But you know, nowadays, I find myself in tune with Dr. No. It's a beautiful little opener. Joseph Wiseman and fresh faced ambiance wins me over everytime.
GoldenEye
A View to a Kill
Top Tier
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
For Your Eyes Only
Goldfinger
Never Say Never Again
The Spy Who Loved Me
Mid-Upper Tier
Octopussy
From Russia with Love
The World is Not Enough
Moonraker
Mid Tier
The Living Daylights
Live and Let Die
Dr. No
Low-Mid Tier
Tomorrow Never Dies
Diamonds are Forever
You Only Live Twice
The Man with the Golden Gun
The "You'll have to kill me to get me to watch this" tier
Die Another Day
Thunderball
Licence to Kill
1. Excellent; can't be topped
TSWLM
TWINE
2. Personal favourites
MR
TLD
FYEO
LTK
OP
3. Good, well made entries
DN
OHMSS
GE
GF
LALD
TB
4. OK entries
FRWL
AVTAK
DAD
5. Mediocre films; watch them only occasionally
TMWTGG
DAF
YOLT
TND
"Better make that two."
Orgasmic:
Goldfinger
The Spy Who Loved Me
Excellent:
From Russia With Love
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Moonraker
Octopussy
The World Is Not Enough
Very Good:
Dr. No
Thunderball
For Your Eyes Only
The Living Daylights
Goldeneye
Good:
You Only Live Twice
Diamonds Are Forever
Live and Let Die
The Man With The Golden Gun
A View To A Kill
OK:
Licence To Kill
Tomorrow Never Dies
Die Another Day
Goldfinger.
From Russia With Love.
These two films (particularly GF) are IMO simply perfect. I consider GF to be the best in virtually every catorgory with FRWL being so brilliant, that although I prefer GF, I can not put FRWL on a lower tier. The Bond films peaked with FRWL/GF and I do not expect them to ever recapture that perfection.
Second Tier:
Thunderball.
Dr. No.
These two films complete the Holy Quartet. I do not consider them to be flawed in any way. My problem with them however is that in DN the elements weren't fully in place and Connery was still yet to peak, while TB has the misfortune of coming straight after GF. Both are brilliant films; they are just as not as good as GF/FRWL.
Third Tier:
You Only Live Twice.
The Spy Who Loved Me.
On Her Majesty's Secret Service.
These films are masterpieces but are each flawed. YOLT, which is arguably the lesser of these three films, is ranked above the other two due to the casting of Connery. TSWLM is an absolute masterpiece, but as good as it is, I can not place a great non-Connery film above a very good (but lesser) Connery film. Ideally, TSWLM would be fifth on my list, as I do consider it to be the fifth greatest Bond film of all time, however my love of Connery will simply not allow me to do so. OHMSS was a beautiful, beautiful film which should be higher, however I think it is also flawed.
Fourth Tier:
Goldeneye.
For Your Eyes Only.
Live and Let Die.
Diamonds Are Forever.
The World Is Not Enough.
Octopussy.
These films constitute the middle order Bonds. Each is highly entertaining in its own way but, for some reason or other, fall short of being absolute masterpieces. That does not mean that they are particularly flawed (some are, some aren't), however none of these films are absolute masterpieces in my book. GE was brilliant but it was also quite flawed. FYEO and LALD, both fantastic, were also flawed. DAF was not a great Bond film, but considering what the filmmakers attempted to do, I think it was tremendous. TWINE was superb but flawed, while OP, although great, was simply not as good as some of the earlier Bond films. I love all six films on this tier, but I don't think they are on the same level as the seven films above them.
Fifth Tier:
Tomorrow Never Dies.
The Man With The Golden Gun.
Moonraker.
Never Say Never Again.
Licence To Kill.
These films are, at best, average. However I can enjoy each of them. I have major problems with each, but if any of these films were on TV, I would definitely watch them. Even LTK, the lowest film on this tier, is a film that if it were on TV, I would sit down and enjoy it. I do not consider any of these films to be particularly good but nor do I consider them to be horrible (although several of these films feature aspects which are horrible.) Nonetheless, I much prefer these films to the films below them which cause me great pain to watch.
Sixth Tier:
Die Another Day.
The Living Daylights.
A View To A Kill.
These are the worst of the worst. Each of these films are IMO so terrible that if they were on TV, I would only watch them if there was nothing better on. I really dislike all three films. DAD was a badly written CGI-filled mess, TLD was incredibly boring and AVTAK was a disaster which basically remade my all-time favourite Bond film. These are not however among my all-time least favourite films even though, quite frankly, I hate them. There are non-Bond films I hate more that these three films, but among Bond films, these three films would provide me with great reason not to be a Bond fan, if it weren't for the majority of the films ranked above them.
Seventh Tier:
Casino Royale. (1954)
I don't think it's fair to compare this film to the other 21 films as it isn't a full length film and it features certain characteristics (such as an American Bond) which were put into the film due to its unique circumstances. I don't think it's terrible but I don't think it should be compared to 21 (superior) full length feature films.
Eighth Tier:
Casino Royale. (1967)
I can not compare this to the other films. The reason being... I am yet to see it!
Being that I contributed to the revenue streams that retroactively covered the cost for the film (since it has yet to gross over the $100+ million mark indicating the break-even point), then yes, I was in a way a part of the filming.
How's that for doing the rhetorical dance?
Oh Klaus, we're at odds again.
1. M's a HYPOCRITE ("Bond, you're a relic of the cold war"/"Damn, I miss the cold war!") Plus she swears more than every other character in the movie combined. She's also mean, annoying and a total divergence from the previous character. If they're going to totally change the character, just get a new M to make it slightly less confusing. By the way Dame Judi, you're a wonderful actress, but get a better hair stylist.
2. The poker sequence. Will it ever end? Maybe? Probably? Not particularly. I know they're trying to say it wasn't just one game, but we all knew the final outcome, Bond wins.
3. The reviewers say "Gone are the smirky days of Moore and Brosnan". I must beg to differ, this man was VERY wisecracky, though Craig was an adequate Bond, he made many self-referencing jokes and others. The whole carpet beater sequence, which is painful to think of was turned into a joke.
"Now the world will know you scratched my balls!"
Not even Roger Moore went there.
4. The worst villains. Guess what Klaus? Sanchez is now no longer the worst villain, that honor belongs to the boring Le Chiffre and the Moopy Henchmen Brigade. While the film was in development, I saw many of the characters top-billed, like Dimitrios, Obanno, Solange, Valenka, etc. However, we meet them for about two minutes, and they're dead. Did Valenka ever actually speak? No. The most boring crop of henchmen and villains to date. Le Chiffre bled tears, he also had this irritating sourpuss expression on his face all the time that drove me insane! I know it's his first assignment and the threat won't be as large, but can't there be a teeny-tiny presence of a threat?
5. The pre-titles, titles and song.
First, film noir, very dark and gritty feel to the whole opening sequence by Bond's actions and his dealings with Bond's 2nd Kill are very cold. Suddenly, we cut to a gunbarrel with cartoony blood, the crappiest song in a Bond film to date (Yes, Madonna and Lulu, you are no longer reviled as the worst singers of a theme, Mr. Chris Cornell has now been awarded that honor, as the song is not hummable and very forgettable, it also never says Casino Royale) All Time High didn't do that either but at least that's a hummable tune (plus, how could you fit Octopussy in a song without someone getting angry?).
6. The confusing and disheartening ending
Very unsatisfying. Vesper and Bond are all lovey-dovey and some guy who needs to get his sunglasses repaired shows up with a few moops to get the money (the access codes, physical money?) from her. Also, the building collapses for some reason, I know he shot the ballistas but no one was actually aware of what was happening. People die, Vesper goes down, Vesper acts like there's no water, cuddles with Bond, backs into the elevator and kills herself for some odd reason. Was she fearing she'd be tracked down? Could she not face Bond after betraying him? Who knows. Craig has an amazing amount of lung capacity and drags her up there. Mr. White. Bond, James Bond.
7. Self-Parodies
They kept happening, it's late now so I won't go into them.
The best sequence was in Uganda with the crazy acrobatic guy, very well done.
I know they're going in a radically different direction, and this movie was a bit LTK for me, which to me of course, is a negative thing. Hopefully they can pick up the pieces for Bond 22.
1. Yeah, because the character of M has been such a great example of continuity. We go from Bernard Lee's M having a cozy relationship with Connery's and Moore's Bonds to Robert Brown's M wanting to kill Dalton's Bond to Judi Dench's FEMALE M despising Brosnan's Bond as a "Sexist, Mysoginist dinosaur."
2. The poker game is the centerpiece to the story. So, needless to say, it should be long. There was enough happening in between sets to keep it from drowning out.
3. I think you misinterpret the torture sequence big time. It was a very painful sequence. Craig's lines, and his delivery of the lines, was meant to show defiance, arrogance, and unflinching, patriotic dedication to his, all qualities of the Literary 007. The lines were the ultimate "f*** you," the most powerful one delivered in a Bond film to date. This scene was the defining moment for 007. And yes, he made wisecracks, but they were much more sardonic in nature. Besides... why are you complaining? I thought you liked humor.
4. The character of Le Chiffre is fine, IMO, and served the story well, and the spirit of it matched the book. He's not over the top, which is how you seem to like your villains. Mads wasn't my first choice to play the role, but he did a fine job.
5. I agree that the title sequence wasn't very good, and the mix used of YKMN wasn't great. But being that I never consider these when I consider a film's greatness, I don't really care. The gunbarrel was great, IMO.
6. Read the book. While the ending has been changed, it explains why Vesper killed herself. Further developing the love story would have helped here, but being one who has read the novel, it bothers me much less. I find your critique of the underwater scenes very interesting, since you seem to have a penchant for overlooking over-the-top and rediculous elements of other films you like. (For instance, Brosnan's morph into Superman in catching the descending plane in the PTS of GoldenEye)
7. I find the self-parodies very light and to have little impact other than to lighten the mood at times. You of all people, being a fan of Moore, should have no problem with self-parody.
It seems that the people who most enjoyed the movie were those who have read CR the novel,those who enjoy the Fleming novels, and those who most enjoy either Dalton as Bond or who most enjoy the early Connery flicks. Seeing as you're a Brosnan fan who has four Moore flicks, NSNA, and only two of the "fab four" Connery flicks in your top-10, I can see this being a bit of a radical departure for you, and that's fine. I am glad, though, that you found Craig adequate. Hopefully for you, the next one will suit more to your liking. As for me, I would be just fine if the franchise went out with this one.
Head and shoulders above any previous film;
Casino royale.
superb;
licence to kill
the living daylights
you only live twice
goldfinger
from russia with love.
enjoyable to watch;
all roger moore's + remaining sean connery's and OHMSS.
bearable;
goldeneye.
very poor;
tomorrow never dies.
dire;
the world is not enough
die another day.
Cream of the Crop
From Russia With Love
Goldfinger
The Spy Who Loved Me
Goldeneye
Very Good
Dr. No
Thunderball
You Only Live Twice
For Your Eyes Only
The World is Not Enough
Casino Royale
Decent
Live and Let Die
Licence to Kill
Tomorrow Never Dies
Poor
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Octopussy
The Living Daylights
Bottom of the Barrel
Diamonds Are Forever
The Man with the Golden Gun
Moonraker
A View to a Kill
Die Another Day
Casino Royale
Octopussy
For Your Eyes Only
A View to a Kill
Licence to Kill
Dr. No
From Russia With Love
Thunderball
Goldfinger
Diamonds Are Forever
The Living Daylights
MIDDLE TIER:
Live and Let Die
The Man With the Golden Gun
On Her Magesty's Secret Service
You Only Live Twice
The World is Not Enough
BOTTOM TIER:
Die Another Day
Goldeneye
Tomorrow Never Dies
Moonraker
Spy Who Loved Me
From Russia With Love, Casino Royale
Second Tier: Also excellent films that would rank amongst my favorite films. They fullfil most of the requirements above, but they simply lack an untouchable quality that encircles the first tier:
Dr. No, Goldfinger, Thunderball, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, The Living Daylights, Licence To Kill, GoldenEye, The World Is Not Enough
Third Tier: These films are overall good movies, but they lack either great characterization, loyalty to Fleming, or well thought out stories that would make them exceptional. Some of these are also my "guilty pleasures:"
For Your Eyes Only, Octopussy, Tomorrow Never Dies, Die Another Day
Fourth Tier: Films that are watchable, but truly lack a lot of what makes Bond my favorite film series:
You Only Live Twice, Live And Let Die, Moonraker
Fifth Tier: A cloud of dissapointment encircles these films, which makes wanting to watch them a near impossible emotion:
Diamonds Are Forever, The Man With the Golden Gun, A View To A Kill
I thought CR was great. I hesitate to put it at the very top of my list only because it's too fresh in my memory and I want to reserve judgement for later. But I loved it and right now it is definitely top tier.
Here are my categories for the time being:
PERFECT:
FRWL
CR
PERSONAL FAVOURITE DESPITE MINOR FLAWS:
TLD
EXCELLENT:
TSWLM
FYEO
LTK
OHMSS
VERY GOOD BUT SOMEWHAT FLAWED:
TWINE
GF
GOOD SOLID ENTRIES:
DN
TND
GE
TB
MEDIOCRE BUT FUN:
YOLT
AVTAK
BELOW AVERAGE:
DAF
DAD
MR
O
ANNOYINGLY SILLY:
LLD
TWTGG
FRWL
GF
CR
TB
Good:
OHMSS
GE
TWINE
TLD
DN
YOLT
FYEO
TSWLM
Mediocre:
TND
LALD
LTK
Weak:
DAD
MR
OP
Bottom of the Pile:
DAF
AVTAK
TMWTGG
IMO there's 7 Bond films that keep the Fleming stories they're based on pretty much intact, and oddly they're my favorites:
DN
FRWL
GF
TB
OHMSS
LALD
CR
Four stand out as great films--FRWL, GF, OHMSS and CR. DN ain't far behind, closely followed by TB. LALD squeaks in there, just.
Then there's the lesser Bonds, fun films that eschew Fleming's stories (and character IMO) for more cinematic thrills:
YOLT
TMWTGG
TSWLM
MR
GE
TND
Of the Gilbert Bonds, I prefer TSWLM best. While there's a lot to like about GE, there's also a lot that's annoying about it, and TND gets the nod there. And even though TMWTGG is intensely stupid, it's also oddly watchable, a guilty pleasure. ;%
Then there's the Bonds I'd rather forget:
DAF (exception for the soundtrack)
The Glen Bonds of the 80s:
FYEO
OP
AVTAK
TLD
LTK
And:
TWINE
DAD
While some of these offer a memorable moment or two, they're just all bad films IMHO, and I'd rather not think of them as Bond. Harsh, yeah, but oh well (stick NSNA in there with this lot if you want...).
Some observations on the directors:
Hamilton is all over the place, truly a director who directs to the level of his script. Ditto (as it turns out) for Campbell. Young is Young, a great director. And just because EON struck gold with one editor-turned-director (Hunt), there was just no reason to stick with Glen for a freakin' decade, he was about as 180 degrees from Young as one could get IMO. Gilbert (and his kindred spirit Spottiswoode) turned in decent entertainments...shrug.
Premiership
1)
Moonraker - forget the jokes and wallow in the luscious cinematography, the most CONFIDENT portrayal of Bond ever - and IMHO the most evil villian -
2)
Goldfinger - the Connery Bond film
3)
Casino Royale (2006) - if you don't like the film, ask yourself one question, where could Brosnan have taken the series further?
4)
OHMSS - watched this again this morning. What an unfairly maligned man Mr Lazenby has been - what a great film in its own right
Championship
5)
Licence to Kill - dark and gritty; only real flaw is the setting 'Isthmus City' - it doesn't exist. Why not just say Panama or Colombia?
6)=
Dr No, FRWL - both superb
8)
Octopussy - enjoyable tosh, with my two best Bond lines ever....
Rog....'its all in the wrist'
Louis....'spend your money...quickly, Mr Bond'
Football League
9)=
Thunderball, YOLT - not very up to the standard of the best Connery's - but still good
11)
TSWLM - the most overrated Bond? Stromberg looks like a sad old man.... never quite done it for me
12)
TMWTGG - whats annoying about this film, is that could have been done so much better
13)
Goldeneye - Loved it at first; still the best Brosnan, but increasing find the script lousy and Sean Bean an unconvincing villian
14)
FYEO - dull; and Carole B looks like an ex-girlfriend of mine, including that strange share....(I won't comment on the facial hair...)
15)
TLD - rubbish villians; Dalton uncharismatic, its a bit like the Munsters...only worth watching if theres nothing else on
Beazer Homes League
16)
DAF - never liked it, never will - but as Sean's in there, it won't be bottom tier
17)
LALD - I loved this as a kid - now I hate it. The villains are so dated - and stereotypical - its almost unwatchable. Jane Seymour has all the sex appeal of your own sister.
Sunday League
18) =
TND, TWINE - with the exception of the Thames boast chase, instantly forgettable
20)
AVTAK
Unfortunately Rog and Patrick McNee look like they should be in Last of the Summer Wine, pushing Compo down a hill in a bath - not mixing with Walken and Jones. Does anyone serious think a man of his age with survive a night with May Day - I don't.....and don't get me started on the iceberg sub, the Beach Boys, the fire engine, the horse's name - 'Pegasus' - please....
20)
DAD - I wish it would die today....
Dr. No
Spy Who Loved Me
From Russia With Love
Goldeneye
While Goldeneye may raise a few eyebrows, the other three are nothing earth shattering for this group. These films set the standard of what Bond films should be.
My next group I like a lot, but they don't quite stand up to the top four. These are the "primary" bond films to me, the ones that are worthy entries to the series and that I would be happy to watch at any time.
Live and Let Die
For Your Eyes Only
Diamonds Are Forever
You Only Live Twice
Octopussy
Thunderball
The World is Not Enough
Tommorow Never Dies
On Her Majesty's Secret Service
I think Casino Royale will land is this group, but I'm not sure yet.
This is a big group, but hey, I love the series!
Next up are the films that, IMHO, have enough flaws to limit my enjoyment of them. I still enjoy watching them, but I don't look forward to them like I do the rest of the series:
Living Daylights
Goldfinger
Die Another Day
Man with the Golden Gun
And now we have the films that I never reach for on their own. These films only get watched when I am watching the series in order. It is unfortunate that two of these are Moore films, as I quite like him as James Bond.
A View to a Kill
License to Kill
Moonraker
I have mixed feelings about Moonraker being rock bottom. I love the first 2/3 of the film, but the ending completely ruins it for me. I detest LTK for so many reasons I won't go into it, but I still will watch it and find entertainment at a few points.
Joel