LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Eloquently and persuasively stated, Mr. B {[] I'm with you. Call it something else...and those multitudes who've never read Fleming will be none the wiser :v
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Thank you L for your post!! My feelings exactly! I hate remakes like the next fella, but a new film based on LALD the novel would not technically be a remake since the Roger Moore film was only a loose adaptation of the source novel and took many liberties as such. Personally, I love the film LALD; I think it's a great film. And, I love the films to death.
Just to add a few extra points:
- a new film could also introduce a character, a No. 1 baddie who is the boss of Le Chiffre, Mr. White, and others in this "organization." Should this organization be SPECTRE? I don't think that the name "SPECTRE" be used, again, because it would perhaps offend those fans who want to see (rightly so) the old films untouched. But, there should be an organization a la SPECTRE, and there should be a character like Blofeld. I would love to see a revamped Blofeld character. Remember the scenes with Mr. White in CR. Mr. White seemed to pride the integrity of his "organization" as an entity where members know "who to trust," etc. If you then read the character description of Blofeld in Thunderball the novel, you would see that Blofeld is a character with more integrity, shall we say, than what seems to be protrayed in the early Bond films. This kind of character depth would make the Blofeld character a rich one, especially in the hands of a bona fide actor. Make Blofeld a character who is not some old guy who sits down all the time stroking his cat. Make him a flesh and blood character that has values. Make him a physical threat to Bond (at least one that might be able to give Craig's Bond a run for his money if ever EON decides to film YOLT's climactic battle between Bond and Blofeld). Make him have some kind of character arc. The great thing about CR and Le Chiffre was that the villain had a motivation for his actions (recall the scene where he is nearly killed by the African terrorist in the hotel room). Give a new Blofeld a similar motivation. Don't make him just another cardboard cutout, but give him a history or some depth. This kind of treatment would justify the filmmakers relying more heavily on the books as source material for future Bond films. This would also make the future films appealing to Bond fans by giving everyone "traditional" Bond elements.
- Finally, and I hate to add this. Since the book Blofeld trilogy is Thunderball-OHMSS-YOLT, but since Thunderball has been done (and since there are, I assume, legal entanglements over the rights with Kevin McClory), I would say make a film Blofeld Trilogy, LALD-OHMSS-YOLT, and have these three films be the next films for Craig. I have to go now, so this post will be continued....
I neither hope noe believe Bond 22 will be a remake of a previous film. It will be made from an origional script. It will probably feature the gunbarrel in its traditional place and perhaps Q and/or Moneypenny. The overall style of CR will remain in place. I think Bond will be set on fighting mr. White's organisation and finding out more about him. This is what I hope, anyway!
I would enjoy seeing a strong Craig 'trilogy' which feature original Fleming titles as well. "Risico" "Property of a Lady" (which has a great tie-in with Bond serving Dench's M) and "The Hildebrandt Rarity" are all titles itching to be made. As stated above, there are plenty of scenes from the Fleming canon that can be pilfered to make for an exciting Bond adventure. I'm currently reading Titan Books release of the James Bond comic strip 'Octopussy' This is an excellent example of how a short story can be strengthenend into an exciting 'full' format and still be true to the story. The Moore film irritates me for the simple fact that they shrugged an exciting story aside, with a simple mention of the original plot in the story, but eschewing it so that the screenwriters could do whatever they wanted.
CR did an excellent job of fleshing out a skeletal framework. There's no reason this couldn't be done for two more films.
Another scene which I think has some potential is the extended rescue of Tiffany on board the cruise liner in Diamonds are Forever. I was enthralled with Bond 'mountaineering' outside the porthole of his cabin.
I'm currently reading Titan Books release of the James Bond comic strip 'Octopussy' This is an excellent example of how a short story can be strengthenend into an exciting 'full' format and still be true to the story.
those comic strip versions are excellent, for just the reason you stated
the 1st creative team did fairly straight, if compressed, adaptations of the major novels
then the 2nd team was left with tMwtGG, tSWLM, Octopussy, The Living Daylights and the Hildebrandt Rarity, all of which they rewrote into major actionpacked espionage adventures in the style of the films while retaining the guts of the source material Octopussy in particular I also thought would have made a better film than the film that finally got made
and it was that comic strip version of Spy I was thinking of above, when I suggested they could finaly bring in Vivienne Michelle and Bonds Toronto mission - a simple shift in balance, instead of 2/3 of the story being Ms Michelles biography, they made a proper adventure of the mission Bond summed up in half a chapter - and it involves defectors, assassinations, and SPECTRE!
someone said in another thread theres hints on the CR promo website that Bonds teenage ski-instructor may be a character (ie corpse) in Episode 2, so maybe Flemings story wont be wasted after all
the short story From A View To A Kill could also make for a decent 20minute sequence early in the film, another title where the filmmakers didnt touch the story
its even got a gadget in it! (the periscope hidden in the shrubbery)
I think there are some very good Flemming titles and chapter titles that can be used, and it would be very cool if "the Craig trilogy" only used Flemming titles. But I think "The Hildebrandt rarity" sounds a bit .... how should I put it?
Hildebradt is a name that makes me think of the Heidi books or possibly Austin Powers. It's there with "The Shawshank redemption" (exellent movie!) on a list of bad movie names. Sorry.
Risico I always thought was a fantastic title. Sounds very powerful to me. I´m spanish, though, so I don´t know how does that sound to an english speaker. But it´s a Fleming title.
I speak Dutch and Risico is dutch for 'risk' or chinese for 'rise' I believe. It doesn't sound very Bondian but it is a Fleming title. I would like to see a much longer title.
I'd rather they go for adapting Fleming titles closer to the originals than most of the previous films have been. Part of the reason "Casino Royale" is so good is they stuck reasonably close to both Fleming's plot and its spirit, updating only where necessary. I'm not sure today's writers are quite as gifted at coming up with wholly original plots or characters, as has been demonstrated these many, many years.
I'd rather they go for adapting Fleming titles closer to the originals than most of the previous films have been. Part of the reason "Casino Royale" is so good is they stuck reasonably close to both Fleming's plot and its spirit, updating only where necessary. I'm not sure today's writers are quite as gifted at coming up with wholly original plots or characters, as has been demonstrated these many, many years.
Well said. I thought that the CR writers did an amazing job. Fleming, however, did most of the hard work coming up with the stories. Bond 22 writers might be well advised to stick close to the original novels. At least one can hope for such.
LONG time no post here. I'm surprised this hasn't come up, but wouldn't "The Spy Who Loves Me", as in the latter half of the novel, be perfect for Craig? Of course you can build on it, tie in the insurance money scandals with terrorism or something, but the idea of Bond just finding an innocent girl, trapped in a bad situation with bad people, in a motel in some small town, with no way out, would be perfect. It was one of my favorite Ian Fleming books, and I know you couldn't do the actual story to a "T" (Being it was told in third person by the female character, uhh, forget her name), but portraying Craig in that “real life Bond”, the gritty, b****** type character, that would make for one good movie.
And when it comes to “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service” being re-made….
I don’t know. It would either be the best James Bond movie ever made, or a total failure, and a kick in the face to the already fantastic current movie. With Craig, it could work. You just can’t go over-the-top, keep it real, like they did in the first one.
LONG time no post here. I'm surprised this hasn't come up, but wouldn't "The Spy Who Loves Me", as in the latter half of the novel, be perfect for Craig? Of course you can build on it, tie in the insurance money scandals with terrorism or something, but the idea of Bond just finding an innocent girl, trapped in a bad situation with bad people, in a motel in some small town, with no way out, would be perfect. It was one of my favorite Ian Fleming books, and I know you couldn't do the actual story to a "T" (Being it was told in third person by the female character, uhh, forget her name), but portraying Craig in that “real life Bond”, the gritty, b****** type character, that would make for one good movie.
.
I agree that they should use whatever Ian Fleming material they can, but in TSWLM case, I think Fleming himself established when he sold the rights that EON could only use the title, not the storyline, for a movie. I´m not sure if that still applies or not.
I speak Dutch and Risico is dutch for 'risk' or chinese for 'rise' I believe. It doesn't sound very Bondian but it is a Fleming title. I would like to see a much longer title.
Risico sounds bondish to me. Goldfinger or Dr.No are Fleming, as Bond as it gets, and short.
Comments
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Just to add a few extra points:
- a new film could also introduce a character, a No. 1 baddie who is the boss of Le Chiffre, Mr. White, and others in this "organization." Should this organization be SPECTRE? I don't think that the name "SPECTRE" be used, again, because it would perhaps offend those fans who want to see (rightly so) the old films untouched. But, there should be an organization a la SPECTRE, and there should be a character like Blofeld. I would love to see a revamped Blofeld character. Remember the scenes with Mr. White in CR. Mr. White seemed to pride the integrity of his "organization" as an entity where members know "who to trust," etc. If you then read the character description of Blofeld in Thunderball the novel, you would see that Blofeld is a character with more integrity, shall we say, than what seems to be protrayed in the early Bond films. This kind of character depth would make the Blofeld character a rich one, especially in the hands of a bona fide actor. Make Blofeld a character who is not some old guy who sits down all the time stroking his cat. Make him a flesh and blood character that has values. Make him a physical threat to Bond (at least one that might be able to give Craig's Bond a run for his money if ever EON decides to film YOLT's climactic battle between Bond and Blofeld). Make him have some kind of character arc. The great thing about CR and Le Chiffre was that the villain had a motivation for his actions (recall the scene where he is nearly killed by the African terrorist in the hotel room). Give a new Blofeld a similar motivation. Don't make him just another cardboard cutout, but give him a history or some depth. This kind of treatment would justify the filmmakers relying more heavily on the books as source material for future Bond films. This would also make the future films appealing to Bond fans by giving everyone "traditional" Bond elements.
- Finally, and I hate to add this. Since the book Blofeld trilogy is Thunderball-OHMSS-YOLT, but since Thunderball has been done (and since there are, I assume, legal entanglements over the rights with Kevin McClory), I would say make a film Blofeld Trilogy, LALD-OHMSS-YOLT, and have these three films be the next films for Craig. I have to go now, so this post will be continued....
CR did an excellent job of fleshing out a skeletal framework. There's no reason this couldn't be done for two more films.
Another scene which I think has some potential is the extended rescue of Tiffany on board the cruise liner in Diamonds are Forever. I was enthralled with Bond 'mountaineering' outside the porthole of his cabin.
the 1st creative team did fairly straight, if compressed, adaptations of the major novels
then the 2nd team was left with tMwtGG, tSWLM, Octopussy, The Living Daylights and the Hildebrandt Rarity, all of which they rewrote into major actionpacked espionage adventures in the style of the films while retaining the guts of the source material
Octopussy in particular I also thought would have made a better film than the film that finally got made
and it was that comic strip version of Spy I was thinking of above, when I suggested they could finaly bring in Vivienne Michelle and Bonds Toronto mission - a simple shift in balance, instead of 2/3 of the story being Ms Michelles biography, they made a proper adventure of the mission Bond summed up in half a chapter - and it involves defectors, assassinations, and SPECTRE!
someone said in another thread theres hints on the CR promo website that Bonds teenage ski-instructor may be a character (ie corpse) in Episode 2, so maybe Flemings story wont be wasted after all
the short story From A View To A Kill could also make for a decent 20minute sequence early in the film, another title where the filmmakers didnt touch the story
its even got a gadget in it! (the periscope hidden in the shrubbery)
Hildebradt is a name that makes me think of the Heidi books or possibly Austin Powers. It's there with "The Shawshank redemption" (exellent movie!) on a list of bad movie names. Sorry.
Well said. I thought that the CR writers did an amazing job. Fleming, however, did most of the hard work coming up with the stories. Bond 22 writers might be well advised to stick close to the original novels. At least one can hope for such.
And when it comes to “On Her Majesty’s Secret Service” being re-made….
I don’t know. It would either be the best James Bond movie ever made, or a total failure, and a kick in the face to the already fantastic current movie. With Craig, it could work. You just can’t go over-the-top, keep it real, like they did in the first one.
I agree that they should use whatever Ian Fleming material they can, but in TSWLM case, I think Fleming himself established when he sold the rights that EON could only use the title, not the storyline, for a movie. I´m not sure if that still applies or not.
Risico sounds bondish to me. Goldfinger or Dr.No are Fleming, as Bond as it gets, and short.