Not better than Thunderball.

evilhenchman

I recently talked to my father this weekend. It just so happened that he saw this film around the same time as I and he went as far to say that this was better than thunderball and that Craig was an even better bond than Connery. This was a good flick and I will post another thread reviewing it, but I just don't agree with that statement. What do you think?

Hammerfist

Hmm, I dunno, while I will admit I didn't much like Thunderball (Though I am doubting my own opinion right now, because I haven't seen it in years now, and perhaps would like it very much today) I do understand what you mean completely.

Hmm, personally I am holding judgement on whether Craig is better than Connery, or Moore, or anyone etc until the "novelty" of a new Bond actor wears off and we can look at him on the same field, so to say.

Though, with me, I'll admit, my favorite Bond is the one whose movie I am watching at the moment

ObiwannabeKenobi

I have to say I was very impressed with DC. I think he made the character his own. I especially like the direction the reboot is going with more realism. This wasnt just a great Bond movie, it was a very good movie period.

imo of course :007)

Hammerfist

Kenobi: This is very much what has been the main point of my reviews. That, this movie is good enough that it could be recognized on its merits even if there were no other 007 movies made before it and it was the first ever.
It's good enough to almost be treated as standalone and still stand strong (also my opinion on OHMSS, FRWL, and such)

scottmu65

not sure if i agree that craig is better than connery, but IMHO i enjoyed CR more than i did Thunderball

jherman

Better than thunderball yes,Connery NO.

Inferno

I don't have a problem with people who say Casino Royale is the best Bond yet. I don't think there is a "Best Bond", and CR is among the best - that's good enough for me.

I can accept almost any Bond film as being "better than the others" except for a small handful. CR is one of my favorites. Better than Thunderball? Maybe. And if 'maybe' is an answer, that's good enough for a win.

Better than Connery? Too soon to say. But I do think Craig could be the best if he gets a few more classics under his belt. But in the end it will come down to the quality of his films. Connery batted a thousand for me. Craig just needs more time.

But to think we're having these discussions after one flick is nothing short of amazing. Three Cheers to Casino Royale!

General_Ourumov

My rankings;

Casino Royale is 5th

Thunderball is 14th


But Connery is the number one Bond, and always will be.

emtiem

Thunderball does get a little boring, but as a collection of iconic moments, you can't beat it. As a film, CR beats it hands down.

Barry Nelson

I would watch TB over CR anytime and Craig is no Connery.

Bond - Connery over Craig

Women - Peters, Paluzzi, Auger, Bestwick over Murino and Green

Villian - Adolfo Celi as Largo over Mads as Le Chiffre

PTS - Bond escaping in a jet pack over the black and white CR opening

Soundtrack and title song - no contest Barry's fantastic score and Tom Jones singing Thunderball can't be topped.

Sorry, CR is good, but it isn't TB.

VW2006

Thunderball is not one of the better Connery Bond films IMO.

Good parts in it? You bet! As an overall film though, it is not one of my favorites.

Thunderball is one of those films I will fast forward through to get to certain scenes. I don't do that with Goldfinger, From Russia With Love, or Dr. No. (DAF - I fast forward through parts).

Casino Royale? So far I've been able to sit through a second viewing and not finding myself wishing I could get through certain parts. Time is the big test for me though. I'm interested to see if a year from now I'll be popping in the CR DVD and going through parts. For now though it looks like it will be a end to end film for me.

As for comparing Connery to Craig? Connery will always be the man. Craig is an excellent second place person, for me anyway. :007)

JennyFlexFan

Actually it is by a smidgen. Just a smidgen though, if I someone gave me a choice to watch either of them I'd head for the nearest window...

Loeffelholz

Yes. CR is better. :007)

fatchuck31088

I happen to really like TB, but I also think that CR is a little bit better on the whole.

As far as Craig being better than Connery...no way, not yet at least.

Virgil

More fun to watch than TB. Better script. Better story. TB has parts that are plain boring, IMO. Connery is still Bond. DC comes a close second.

Moore Not Less

Thunderball is not one of my favourite Bond films even though it has some great moments and great characters. For a significant portion of the film it fails to hold my attention, yes it drags.

Casino Royale held my attention from start to finish. However, I am not ranking it alongside the previous twenty films. Yes, it was made by Eon and contains numerous Bondian elements, but it's still a radical departure, a new beginning. Same applies to Daniel Craig.

Smoke_13

It is way too early to say that Craig is the best Bond yet -but I will say that he certainly has done a good enough job with the role at this point to warrant discussion. That in itself is an achievement.

"Not Better Than Thunderball" Wow, I havent seen Thunderball for years, and it was never one of my favorite Bond movies. Your post makes me want to watch TB again, and see what a few years of maturity on my part might have added to my viewing pleasure. IMO Goldfinger is by far the best Connery Bond flick. Did I enjoy CR more than GF? Yes I did.

Napoleon Plural

JennyFlexFan wrote:

Actually it is by a smidgen. Just a smidgen though, if I someone gave me a choice to watch either of them I'd head for the nearest window...

You're not a fan of CR then JFF?

You're not alone, but why so shy about posting your review at any length (or at all). It seems I'm the only naysayer on the review page! Which is surely not the case.

RogueAgent

No, no, no...

While CR was quite enjoyable, it's not as good as Thunderball. Connery is still the man in my eyes at least even if Craig did put up a great performance.

Perhaps this arguement may have legs after the new installment has settled for everyone abit; some films lose steam after multi-viewings. TB is not one of these IMO.

jbfreak

I don't think that either one is better than the other. I do however, like CR more at this time simply because I have seen TB a billion times and its kinda old now, and since CR just came out, its something fresh, and something that I enjoyed very much.

Loeffelholz

It could be that many of us who really enjoy CR---and are thrilled that the status quo has been well and truly shaken up, even if only for the time being---are a bit giddy. I won't dismiss that possibility out of hand...but I do rank CR as #5 on my all-time list (just ahead of TB, ironically!), and absolutely consider it the best Bond (actor, and film) since the Sixties gave way to the Seventies.

For all those fans who are now entering into a personal Bond Dark Age...my sympathies.

I've been there.

Loeffelholz

benskelly wrote:

Each Bond film has its own personality

That is certainly true; a great observation, really.

benskelly wrote:

...I'm hoping (always) that both film and actor are more entertaining and appealing to me next time.

I hope we both like the next one I really think Craig's vibe in #22 will be tangibly different than this one, for obvious reasons...as for the overall tone of the project, I'm fascinated to see...

TonyDP

CR and Thunderball are such radically different movies that I find it impossible to say one is better than the other. I will say that I personally enjoy Thunderball much much more than CR.

CR was a good movie; I liked it more than I thought I would. But once I left the theater, it quickly dropped off my radar and I have no real desire to revisit it anytime soon. Even though it was a well made film, it had no real memorable moments for me and was very much a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. As for Craig, again I liked him more than I thought I would but he will never fit my ideal image of Bond, either physically or personality-wise.

TB on the other hand is a spectacle, full of memorable characters and moments from the thrilling PTS to Bond's brutal fight with Largo aboard the Disco Volante. It's more in line with what I look for in a Bond movie; I've watched it dozens of times and never tire of it. And as for Connery, he was the prototype and could do it all: toughness, humor and everything in between. The scene where he strangles Boutier with the poker and then stops to throw flowers on his corpse even as guards are breaking into the room is how I see James Bond: tough, even brutal when he has to be, but always suave, in control and ready with a humorous line or act to lighten the moment. It may not be particularly faithful to Fleming, but its damned entertaining.

arthur pringle

Napoleon Plural wrote:

JennyFlexFan wrote:

Actually it is by a smidgen. Just a smidgen though, if I someone gave me a choice to watch either of them I'd head for the nearest window...

You're not a fan of CR then JFF?

You're not alone, but why so shy about posting your review at any length (or at all). It seems I'm the only naysayer on the review page! Which is surely not the case.

You weren't alone by any means Cliv- I mean NP. Myself and Allesandra and a few others put our (predictable) grumbles on the review page. I don't think the new James Bond is ever going to be my cup of tea but then, as someone could point out, I have twenty films with Bond actors I like. Casino Royale didn't do a lot for me, coming off at times like a cross between Die Hard 2 and a glossy chocolate advert. Another thing was, they never gave Craig anything especially funny to say IMO. Nothing like "Do you mind if my friend sits this one out?...she's just dead." I have Thunderball fifth (I think) on my list. Casino Royale would be down near the bottom because it felt so strange and hasn't stuck in my memory much after seeing it a few weeks ago.

s96024

Fish1941 wrote:

Not only is it not better than TB, I'd put about six or seven other Bond films ahead of it myself.

Not only do I believe that CR is better than TB, I think that it is better than 19 other Bond films.

Everyone likes different things.

Monique

Fish1941 wrote:

I think that CASINO ROYALE is better than THUNDERBALL.

I listed TB as my second favorite Bond, so obviously I don't agree.

Fish1941 wrote:

I think that Connery can be credited for being the FIRST actor to successfully portray Bond.

I don't get what you are saying here, other than stating the obvious.

Nightshooter

benskelly wrote:

But Craig being declared "better than Connery" is just so patently absurd it's funny.

Yeah. Those differing opinions, how ridiculous. You guys should all be the same gray blob. 8-)

Napoleon Han Solo

It's a bit like comparing Blade Runner to Forbidden Planet...both films met the needs of their times in different ways. It is easy to go off half cocked and think of what is new as being the best, when it in fact is simply meeting the needs of its time. Very often, the trendier a movie, the more the flaws will pop up later. The more it will appear dated, and this is a particular danger of this series (yet because of this quality many of them make for fun time capsules). However, I feel CR, while it has a certain amount of trendiness to it, also has aspects that will give it longevity. Movies, in terms of the viewer's mindset, have to be viewed outside of the time they are made in in order to be truly appreciated. Or condemned. Some will say CR is the best simply because it is up to date, and has the "grittier" feel of many modern action movies. Others will dismiss it because it is very much unlike other Bonds and therefore not viewed as "valid." Most of the arguments I have read that condemn it wholesale are merely sentimental. If you want every Bond to be like a particular one or particular set, it will certainly disappoint you. But some were disappointed by the generic quality to most of the Brosnan films and are relieved by something that sets out reimagine the character almost from the ground up. I found while viewing CR the unconventionality is what stuck out at first, though thinking about it later it was the similarities to many in the series that stands out for me. It is a Bond movie, at least as much as OHMSS is. Or LALD. Remember when M and Moneypenny showed up at James' apartment at the beginning of LALD? Scandalous!

CR is not a complete home run but shows much potential. Stagnation is death, and every photocopy looks a bit poorer than the last.

The question then, is why would we need another Thunderball? One already exists.

Nightshooter

That is a valid argument, I just thought you could've expressed your concern without being derogatory. But I suppose we're back at square one, aren't we?

As for holding off on the "Craig is the best Bond" stuff, I completely agree. I can't make my decision yet, I've only seen CR twice. But I still think people can make that decision for themselves. If Craig is someone's favorite Bond, so be it.

Loeffelholz

benskelly wrote:

Nightshooter wrote:

benskelly wrote:

But Craig being declared "better than Connery" is just so patently absurd it's funny.

Yeah. Those differing opinions, how ridiculous. You guys should all be the same gray blob. 8-)

So, why are you rolling your eyes at MY opinion? Hypocritical AND ironic. I like it.

8-)

Besides which, shouldn't we wait until Craig has done a good handful of Bond films before we even have that conversation? It's such hype BS.

Speaking only for myself...anyone's opinion of which Bond actor is better than another is okay---at any time. If somebody thinks Lazenby is the greatest, great. If Roger Moore is it for you, also great. If it's Brozzer, or Dalton, or Connery, cool.

If it's Craigger...guess what? Also fine.

All any of us can do is disagree, and put forth an opposing view---but that doesn't make any of them absurd, from where I'm standing. At some point, guys, we really should lay down our arms.

Loeffelholz

Or whomever Of course, Connery will always be 'it'---he had the invaluable advantage of originating the role---but after him, for me it's all about Danny Boy, who (in a way) is doing exactly the same thing, and I consider him a very close second.

There was Classic Bond...now, there is Modern Bond...and then we have other guys who've played the part...

:007)