Challenging Plot Points
Gassy Man
USAPosts: 2,972MI6 Agent
Okay, a post in another thread made me wonder if others were a bit, shall we say, challenged by some elements in "Casino Royale." Perhaps this thread is a good place to elucidate.
For me, there were two points: First, why did Bond seem alarmed in the restaurant when Vesper told him she was going to meet Mathis? Did Mathis say something back in the casino to lead Bond to believe he wouldn't be available?
Second, if Vesper was working with Le Chiffre, why did he dump her in the road? Was she, indeed, being tortured later? Wouldn't she have warned Le Chiffre about Mr. White, or was she also playing him against Le Chiffre?
I suspect that I missed something and/or that these points will be explained in the next film. But I've seen "Casino Royale" twice, and I'm still just a little baffled.
Any others to consider?
For me, there were two points: First, why did Bond seem alarmed in the restaurant when Vesper told him she was going to meet Mathis? Did Mathis say something back in the casino to lead Bond to believe he wouldn't be available?
Second, if Vesper was working with Le Chiffre, why did he dump her in the road? Was she, indeed, being tortured later? Wouldn't she have warned Le Chiffre about Mr. White, or was she also playing him against Le Chiffre?
I suspect that I missed something and/or that these points will be explained in the next film. But I've seen "Casino Royale" twice, and I'm still just a little baffled.
Any others to consider?
Comments
FYI: There are several threads already that discuss plot points that may be unclear.
Anyway, Bond realized that it must have been Mathis who tipped LeChiffre off about the "tell." Of course, it never occurred to him it might have been Vesper. But that's what love does to you.
Vesper is left in the road as bait to force Bond to stop. They needed to take him prisoner to get the password. Of course, they wouldn't have any way of knowing that he would almost run her over. But I would assume that if he had not crashed, they would have confronted him some other way.
Am I the only one who thought that it would have been more than possible for Le Chiffre to have heard Mathis whispering to Vesper at the rail?? I wasn't sure whether or not the angle at which the shot was filmed was meant to imply this but the background noise level in the salon privee was hardly deafening ???
Obviously the script suggests Mathis is bent but if you don't have the benefit of seeing that then I think its more than plausible that it could have been overheard.
But when Le Chiffre captures Bond after he rolls the Aston Martin, he tells Bond, "Your friend Mathis is really my friend Mathis!" That suggests to me that the two had in some way communicated at some point during the evening.
Oh I agree that you are led to believe that he is in league with Le Chiffre but it doesn't make sense with what happens during the recouperation.
He goes to see Bond and tries to make him have that drink. Now if he's acting on behalf of Le Chiffre's interests that can't be poison as 'they' still need the password, and so called 'truth drugs' are usually administered by injection (especially in the movies lol) so what else is it - could it be genuinely something he was supposed to drink?? And, why is he so interested in whether or not Bond saw Le Chiffre's killer if they don't have the password for the money to reimburse their clients so can't kill Bond - I think another twist meant to colour whether or not Mathis is being paid off??? Mr White has a lot to lose of his reputation after introducing Le Chiffre to the LRA so really needs to get the money back and that's what is driving the enemy, killing Bond at this point creates more problems than solutions.
The guys who zap Mathis are the good guys so there is the suspicion that he is bent and acordingly is taken for questioning.
I certainly believe that something could have been said, just also that with the distance involved then the comments could have been overheard also.
(p.s. its late and I am prone to overthinking things, if this is total rattle then I do apologise
We're meant to believe that Bond is sitting at the dinner table, mulling over how Le Chiffre knew about the tell. When Vesper says she has to meet Mathis, it makes Bond realise that mathis could have told Le Chiffre. As has already been stated, Bond is falling in love with Vesper, and wouldn't suspect her because of his feelings.
Vesper was thrown on the road in order to get Bond to stop, possibly assuming that the forced stop would crash the car.
Whether vesper was really being tortured or not all depends on whether le Chiffre and her were working directly together, or both working separately under Mr. White, which remains a bit of a mystery.
Didn't even think about that. She wanted Le Chiffre to win, obviously. When it appeared he had, she refused to front Bond the money. So, either her orders were to help Le Chiffre win, or she was directly involved with Le Chiffre and Mr. White.
I'm still reluctant to call Mathis a traitor.
I know the evidence against him is strong, especially LeChiffre calling him his friend and those ominous sunglasses at the end of the film. However, I still believe we will find out later he was on the good side after all.
Here, I have two theories that might prove his innocence.
First, and most obvious: if Vesper had been working for LeChiffre (or an affiliated organization) all along, she surely would have given the bad guys up-to-date details of what was happening. They would be well aware there were only three MI6 / government employees on the job: Bond, Vesper, and Mathis. LeChiffre knows Bond will suspect a double-cross (why else would Vesper be summoned outside?). But if Bond believes it's Vesper, LeChiffre will have one less card to play against Bond in extracting the password. By telling him it was Mathis, the events of the evening will make sense to Bond, his spirit will be broken, and LeChiffre can still use Vesper's life to bargain for the password. In other words, LeChiffre is lying.
The second theory, slightly less plausible: As far as we see him in CR, Mathis's whole thing is cleverly using other people to do his work. We see it with the police chief and later with LeChiffre's goon and the bodies. Maybe Mathis was pretending to be LeChiffre's friend to disinform him? (Feeding him small bits of info like the chip in the arm, maybe, while Vesper allows the staged kidnapping herself?) In other words, LeChiffre is wrong.
My theories can stand because no matter what, we know Vesper did betray Bond, and there is nothing LeChiffre knows that she couldn't have told him herself. To make sense, nothing in the plot requires Mathis to be a traitor, but nothing necessarily exonerates him, either.
As an avid fan of the novels, and having recently read CR for the third time, it is just not in my heart to believe Mathis betrayed Bond...
Also, his "realization" that Mathis is the traitor seems rather loopy. I'm not saying it isn't possible or isn't what was intended; it's just rather fuzzily done on screen.
Just my opinion.