Let's make sure Dalton's tenure is put into perspective...
Back in '85, Moore was THE Bond of a generation. He was HUGELY popular as 007, in fact most everyone in my generation felt he WAS James Bond. Sadly, though, by the time A View To A Kill came out, he was showing his age. The script kept referring to him as "dangerous" when we all knew he was as dangerous as your grandpa on a vacation.
Enter Dalton. He looked, spoke and breathed danger. The Living Daylights was written for Moore, but Dalton braought an edge to it that reflected the Fleming Bond. Brosnan, if he was able to play the part at that time, would have most likely been a Junior Moore. Same character, but younger.
Don't underestimate Dalton... he made 007 a gritty and more realistic Bond that Brosnan tried to continue in his characterization.
The Living Daylights was written for Moore, but Dalton braought an edge to it that reflected the Fleming Bond.
The Living Daylights was not written for Roger Moore. He quit approx six months after AVTAK's release. I am pretty sure it was Michael G Wilson who said that TLD was originally written with a "generic" Bond in mind. In other words, "not specific".
Don't underestimate Dalton... he made 007 a gritty and more realistic Bond that Brosnan tried to continue in his characterization.
I actually think Brosnan's Bond was inspired more by Connery than by Dalton.
Dalton is my least favourite Bond and his tenure is a nightmare which I am still yet to awaken from.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Don't underestimate Dalton... he made 007 a gritty and more realistic Bond that Brosnan tried to continue in his characterization.
I actually think Brosnan's Bond was inspired more by Connery than by Dalton.
Dalton is my least favourite Bond and his tenure is a nightmare which I am still yet to awaken from.
I disagree.... I'm talking about at the time of 1986. Brosnan's forte (at the time at least) was light comedy. Remington Steele, anyone? Mrs. Doubtfire? Moore was so popular that Pierce was seen by the general public as what James Bond was supposed to be... a younger Roger Moore, in a lot of ways.
I think, at least, his first few films would have been lighter films and MAYBE with age would have gotten a bit grittier. To me, though, all his films feel like gritty Moore films (except FYEO, which broke the Moore-mold)
Wasn't Dalton tall, dark and handsome? The bloke now playing Bond looks like a plumber from Dagenham.
Wait a minute, Art. Get your story straight. I distinctly remember you saying sometime ago that he looked like the guy -- no mention of where he was from -- who fixed your refrigerator. Now you say he looks like a Dagenham plumber. Which is it? Or do all home and appliance repair people look like Daniel Craig in Britain? )
For me, Dalton was perhaps my least fave of the actors to play Bond, though I hasten to call him a 'failure'. I don't think he was bad as an actor, quite the opposite- again, given better material he could have been better regarded, but I think he lacked something all the other Bonds had- charm. I found his one-liners very flatly delivered.
As for the films, 'The Living Daylights' is patchy and overlong imo, yet enjoyable, and while 'Licence To Kill' isn't perfect (the scene in the casino is way too long and bogs it down, imo), it was more consistent and was a brave attempt to update the series, even if 'Casino Royale' has been proved to be a better stab at it.
However, I just think with 'The Living Daylights' especially, they were not writing to Dalton's strengths. He wanted to play a harder edged Bond and I don't think that film delivered it, really. That script could have been written before he was cast- it certainly feels like it, to me anyroad. 'Licence To Kill' at least seems to limit the one liners and up the tougher attitude, yet the 'rogue agent' scenario means it has little link to any other Bond film. It's the only one, really, where he's not working in the line of duty and I think many were put off (I wasn't- I would put it in my top 10, but I see why people were) by a plot which could have really come from any action film.
I really like Dalton's Bond. I think he got such a bad rap early on for being the polar opposite of Roger Moore who had been engrained as Bond for so long.
Moore,Dalton,Bronsan all left there own little touch to Bond.I don't think any of the played it like Flemming's vision,To me Connery and Craig are the only too,who have it the closest.
The only reason he didn't film a third Bond movie is that HE REJECTED Broccoli and Wilson's offer to film GOLDENEYE.
No. Not from what Im hearing. The public was wanted Piece Brosnan as James Bond that no one else could have been accepted. Whoever was going to be playing James Bond would have to do so in Brosnan's shadow because he was the people's choice.
No matter who played James Bond everybody knew that Brosnan was the rightful heir to the walther ppk.
I think, at least, his first few films would have been lighter films and MAYBE with age would have gotten a bit grittier. To me, though, all his films feel like gritty Moore films (except FYEO, which broke the Moore-mold)
So are you saying that you believe that Dalton inspired Brosnan or not? ?:) Because it now sounds as if you don't.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
The Bond I perceived from Dalton was a guy who was more easily rattled than Moore, and it showed in his expressions, and too distant to relate with ... almost humourless. So with respect to the agent stuff, he was too human with too many weaknesses, not Bond enough; with regards to humour, charm, suave, and other stuff to connect with people, he wasn't Bond enough either.
Craig seems to balance this quite well though, being a little more Bond in both aspects than Dalton.
So are you saying that you believe that Dalton inspired Brosnan or not? ?:) Because it now sounds as if you don't.
Is not like Brosnan was inspired by Dalton, is more like (for obvious reasons) he carried his character:
when M says about Bond being a "Cold war dinosaur" stuff - the line than is knowingly disliked by Dan- she was referring to Dalton's Bond. But, being honest, for me - as well as for many others - is unbelievable to think Dalton (the bas***** Bond) and Brosnan (the Dandy Bond) were ALWAYS the same. The first may not have the same suavennes and the second even in his better moment was as expressive than the first.
BUT HEY, IS ME TALKING, IS NOT A SACRED TRUE, JUST MY POINT OF VIEW
No big studio would greenlights a James Bond movie with Timothy Dalton. There was the talk that LTK would be the last JB movie. Even, if Broccoli wants Dalton as Bond, no studio would do the movie. It wasn't until Piece Brosnan came on the board that Golden Eye can be maked into a film.
It was obvious Dalton have to step down for the People's Choice, Brosnan, or there will be no more Bond movies.
Even Moore and Connery got rattled at times. Sometimes I wonder about the public’s taste if they wanted Bond to be less than human. God, how repellent that description sounds.
I personally don't want Bond to be less than human. I just want him to be more like Connery, Moore and Brosnan and less like Dalton.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I do feel that Dalton was hard one by, rather like Lazenby. Lazenby had to impersonate a square, with frilly cravat and kilt, which is not what you want from a debut Bond imo, plus a ludicrously dubbed voice suddenly.
Ditto Dalton, in that in the first scene after the pts he is all tense and foreboding, less relaxed than the neurotic overseeing him. You can argue he would be like this on an assassination (though should he - Craig's Bond is happy enough doing it)... but it's not a good intro imo
Later he has to pretend to be a friend of Yogi's to get into Kara's confidence (and knickers?), an act which is a bit alienating to the audience. When he falls in love so to speak, is he just putting it on, inc when he praises her musicionship "It was exquisite.." 8-)
And this is another point that we'll never agree upon.
Not suprising that we would disagree on Dalton since we have completely contrasting views on GF.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Even Moore and Connery got rattled at times. Sometimes I wonder about the public’s taste if they wanted Bond to be less than human. God, how repellent that description sounds.
I personally don't want Bond to be less than human. I just want him to be more like Connery, Moore and Brosnan and less like Dalton.
Well each to their own, personally I thought Timothy Dalton was fantastic in the role and came closer to Flemings vision than Brozzer ever did.
Didn't the late great Desmond Llewellyn (sp) once say "Timothy was Flemings true Bond" High praise indeed.
Didn't the late great Desmond Llewellyn (sp) once say "Timothy was Flemings true Bond" High praise indeed.
He says that about every Bond.
I must not be watching the same interviews. . . because I've only ever heard him say that about Dalton. Not to say Llewellyn didn't enjoy the others or felt they were bad, simply that Dalton captured the essence of Fleming.
Talking of which, Roger Moore has publicly endorsed every Bond except Dalton - he claimed 'I have to be honest, I have not seen the film. Knowing I'd be asked about that, I wouldn't know what to say if I didn't like him.' A bit equivical.
timothy dalton was definately NOT a failure he had the acting ability and range to take the bond character and make it his own. the tone of his films were more serious and he acted accordingly. had it not been for the enforced hiatus he would have made more bonds and had he made GE, then i am convinced, that particular film would have been far better. when you look at what followed with brosnan, the loss to the series of more dalton bonds is even more striking.
When he [Dalton] turned them down, Broccoli and Wilson turned to Brosnan, whom they remembered was their first choice after Moore had stepped down.
And a twenty something Dalton was the first choice (or one of them) to replace Conney, but he said back then the "i'm too young and Connery is too good" line.
Brosnan came into the mix after Dinning with "Cubby" in the Filming of FYEO when Cassandra Harris (his late wife) introduced them and he get up of the table saying "the name is Bond, James Bond" line.
In OP Eon had some sort of negotiation with James Brolin. Brosnan gets his boost (or i think) with Remington Steele where he plays a Suave , Charming, smooth and rather funny P.I. (like Moore in the films but with better looks)
And even Moore was in the casting of Dr. No... he developed his Bond opposite to Connery's, but if he would made Dr. No. he would play a serious Bond.
I maintain my point, the reason why Dalton was "a failure" was because he followed a "funny" Bond. if he followed Connery the history would be other
And even Moore was in the casting of Dr. No... he developed his Bond opposite to Connery's, but if he would made Dr. No. he would play a serious Bond.
I maintain my point, the reason why Dalton was "a failure" was because he followed a "funny" Bond. if he followed Connery the history would be other
Timing is important. Without the silly humour and with Terence Young's guidance Roger Moore would be held in much higher esteem than he is now if he had been Bond first.
Timothy Dalton was the right Bond at the wrong time. He was perhaps too much of a contrast to Moore for some fans to accept. For other fans it was because he was not Pierce Brosnan. Unfortunately for Dalton, his time has come nearly twenty years too late.
I'm old enough to remember when Moore finally retired as 007. I heard the rumors that Pierce ("Remington Steele") Brosnan was up for the role. I was relieved when he didn't get it because by then I was sick of the goofy humor from the Moore period and had given up on seeing Bond films in the cinema after Moonraker. My impression of Brosnan at the time led me to fear "Moore of the same". So I was pleased with the Dalton casting and actually found myself in a movie theater to see the "new guy".
I liked Dalton then and I still do but his outings were not all that they could or should have been. Ironically, by the time Brosnan did get to play Bond, I was ready for him and once again went out to see the "new guy" on a movie screen. I liked Brosnan as Bond after all.
Come to think of it, I have seen each actor's premiere outing as 007 in the cinema from Moore through Craig. I'm not old enough to have caught the Connery and Laenby debuts.
On reflection, Moore was a better Bond than I used to think he was.
I know most will disagree with me but I truly do not like Dalton at all. Listing the Bond films in order of my liking I have not put the Dalton films last. I have put AVTAK last, a movie that is virtually unwatchable. (Sorry JFF!) Why? The Dalton movies were alright, but the actor, he was not. It is like going to a movie with a good plot, then finding out that the you hate the actor playing the role.
So in answering your question I think Timothy Dalton was a failure because (and he was a failure! ) he was not as smooth as Connery or Brosnan. He didn't have the "looks". Or the "style". I guess that sums it up for me.
Comments
Back in '85, Moore was THE Bond of a generation. He was HUGELY popular as 007, in fact most everyone in my generation felt he WAS James Bond. Sadly, though, by the time A View To A Kill came out, he was showing his age. The script kept referring to him as "dangerous" when we all knew he was as dangerous as your grandpa on a vacation.
Enter Dalton. He looked, spoke and breathed danger. The Living Daylights was written for Moore, but Dalton braought an edge to it that reflected the Fleming Bond. Brosnan, if he was able to play the part at that time, would have most likely been a Junior Moore. Same character, but younger.
Don't underestimate Dalton... he made 007 a gritty and more realistic Bond that Brosnan tried to continue in his characterization.
The Living Daylights was not written for Roger Moore. He quit approx six months after AVTAK's release. I am pretty sure it was Michael G Wilson who said that TLD was originally written with a "generic" Bond in mind. In other words, "not specific".
Wasn't Living Daylights written for Brosnan? I thought it was.-{
Dalton is my least favourite Bond and his tenure is a nightmare which I am still yet to awaken from.
I disagree.... I'm talking about at the time of 1986. Brosnan's forte (at the time at least) was light comedy. Remington Steele, anyone? Mrs. Doubtfire? Moore was so popular that Pierce was seen by the general public as what James Bond was supposed to be... a younger Roger Moore, in a lot of ways.
I think, at least, his first few films would have been lighter films and MAYBE with age would have gotten a bit grittier. To me, though, all his films feel like gritty Moore films (except FYEO, which broke the Moore-mold)
Wait a minute, Art. Get your story straight. I distinctly remember you saying sometime ago that he looked like the guy -- no mention of where he was from -- who fixed your refrigerator. Now you say he looks like a Dagenham plumber. Which is it? Or do all home and appliance repair people look like Daniel Craig in Britain?
As for the films, 'The Living Daylights' is patchy and overlong imo, yet enjoyable, and while 'Licence To Kill' isn't perfect (the scene in the casino is way too long and bogs it down, imo), it was more consistent and was a brave attempt to update the series, even if 'Casino Royale' has been proved to be a better stab at it.
However, I just think with 'The Living Daylights' especially, they were not writing to Dalton's strengths. He wanted to play a harder edged Bond and I don't think that film delivered it, really. That script could have been written before he was cast- it certainly feels like it, to me anyroad. 'Licence To Kill' at least seems to limit the one liners and up the tougher attitude, yet the 'rogue agent' scenario means it has little link to any other Bond film. It's the only one, really, where he's not working in the line of duty and I think many were put off (I wasn't- I would put it in my top 10, but I see why people were) by a plot which could have really come from any action film.
Craig seems to balance this quite well though, being a little more Bond in both aspects than Dalton.
MAYBE with age, he would have matured the role, but now I think his tenure would have been Moore-light-Bond.
I do think that he tried to continue the grittiness that Dalton established
Is not like Brosnan was inspired by Dalton, is more like (for obvious reasons) he carried his character:
when M says about Bond being a "Cold war dinosaur" stuff - the line than is knowingly disliked by Dan- she was referring to Dalton's Bond. But, being honest, for me - as well as for many others - is unbelievable to think Dalton (the bas***** Bond) and Brosnan (the Dandy Bond) were ALWAYS the same. The first may not have the same suavennes and the second even in his better moment was as expressive than the first.
BUT HEY, IS ME TALKING, IS NOT A SACRED TRUE, JUST MY POINT OF VIEW
It was obvious Dalton have to step down for the People's Choice, Brosnan, or there will be no more Bond movies.
Ditto Dalton, in that in the first scene after the pts he is all tense and foreboding, less relaxed than the neurotic overseeing him. You can argue he would be like this on an assassination (though should he - Craig's Bond is happy enough doing it)... but it's not a good intro imo
Later he has to pretend to be a friend of Yogi's to get into Kara's confidence (and knickers?), an act which is a bit alienating to the audience. When he falls in love so to speak, is he just putting it on, inc when he praises her musicionship "It was exquisite.." 8-)
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Well each to their own, personally I thought Timothy Dalton was fantastic in the role and came closer to Flemings vision than Brozzer ever did.
Didn't the late great Desmond Llewellyn (sp) once say "Timothy was Flemings true Bond" High praise indeed.
Keep well people.
Ant.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
And a twenty something Dalton was the first choice (or one of them) to replace Conney, but he said back then the "i'm too young and Connery is too good" line.
Brosnan came into the mix after Dinning with "Cubby" in the Filming of FYEO when Cassandra Harris (his late wife) introduced them and he get up of the table saying "the name is Bond, James Bond" line.
In OP Eon had some sort of negotiation with James Brolin. Brosnan gets his boost (or i think) with Remington Steele where he plays a Suave , Charming, smooth and rather funny P.I. (like Moore in the films but with better looks)
And even Moore was in the casting of Dr. No... he developed his Bond opposite to Connery's, but if he would made Dr. No. he would play a serious Bond.
I maintain my point, the reason why Dalton was "a failure" was because he followed a "funny" Bond. if he followed Connery the history would be other
Timing is important. Without the silly humour and with Terence Young's guidance Roger Moore would be held in much higher esteem than he is now if he had been Bond first.
Timothy Dalton was the right Bond at the wrong time. He was perhaps too much of a contrast to Moore for some fans to accept. For other fans it was because he was not Pierce Brosnan. Unfortunately for Dalton, his time has come nearly twenty years too late.
I liked Dalton then and I still do but his outings were not all that they could or should have been. Ironically, by the time Brosnan did get to play Bond, I was ready for him and once again went out to see the "new guy" on a movie screen. I liked Brosnan as Bond after all.
Come to think of it, I have seen each actor's premiere outing as 007 in the cinema from Moore through Craig. I'm not old enough to have caught the Connery and Laenby debuts.
On reflection, Moore was a better Bond than I used to think he was.
So in answering your question I think Timothy Dalton was a failure because (and he was a failure!