The Man wih the Golden Gun

mythrenegade

I am working my way through the Moore films as a result of the "Was Moore a rubbish Bond?" thread, and next up is The Man WIth the Golden Gun.

I always start off watching the Man with the Golden Gun thinking that it isn't as bad as everyone says. Yes, the plot is a little shaky, but the locations are very cool and having been to both Macau and Hong Kong, I enjoy seeing them again. On the other hand, the solex agitator fails to get me agitated, and as much as I liked JW Pepper in LALD, I didn't need to see him in a second film.

I absolutely cannot stand Holly Goodnight, but Maud Adams does make up for that in the Bond girl department. But after watching it, I always remember why this film gets ranked so low by many fans. It just doesn't have the grandeur, the excitement, or the plot that the other films do. It's not a bad film, I still enjoy watching it, but it is definitely one of Moore's weaker efforts. I currently rank it 16 out of 20 (can't rank CR yet, haven't seen it enough)

Joel

heartbroken_mr_drax

I think that most people do enjoy the film, but wouldnt really rank it as a very good Bond film.

I think that it goes along the lines of DAF, being a stupid romp.

It has all the great elements, apart from storyline.

I really enjoy the soundtrack, the villian, the locations and Roger Moore.

But the way Bond treats the woman (esp in RM first to bonds) is embarrasing.

PoorMansJB

mythrenegade wrote:

I absolutely cannot stand Holly Goodnight ...

Mary[/] Goodnight. But I wouldn't worrry about that; getting it wrong is as much a comment on how memorable the character is as it is a comment on your post. I think she's on a level with Stacey Sutton ...

mythrenegade

[quote=PoorMansJMary Goodnight...I think she's on a level with Stacey Sutton ...[/quote]

Erm, uh, yeah, mary... Bond always refers to her as "Goodnight."



Stacey Sutton, oy! Yeah, not looking forward to that one...

Joel

Dan Same

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

But the way Bond treats the woman (esp in RM first to bonds) is embarrasing.

I love Bond's treatment of the women in TMWTGG. The reason being that it showcases the playfulness, arrogance, sexism, ruthlessness and sexiness of Bond; he's willing to hit a woman in order to get information and he sleeps with a woman with another in the closet. He isn't a saint in these scenes, but Bond isn't a saint either. In fact, I would argue that Bond sleeping with a woman with another in the closet in TMWTGG isn't more immoral or unethical than his sleeping with a married woman in CR. :v (On second thoughs, perhaps it is, which means that Craig is just a choir boy compared to Moore. )

Steed

I think there are only two saving graces for this film- Roger Moore's excellent performance (when he's not given lame innuendos or silly jokes) and Christopher Lee's. Otherwise, upon watching this recently, I'd say this is the Bond series at its worse. At least Moonraker looked like a lot of effort had been put into everything save the script, A View To A Kill had some fine performances and Die Another Day had a great pre-credits scene. Here though, every action scene is well below par, imo, and it just doesn't catch fire at all for me. The second half of this I find almost completely embarassing from the Kung Fu school sequence and onwards.

Moore Not Less

I believe TMWTGG is better than it's reputation but is indeed far from perfect. The silliness with the karate girls and J W Pepper detracts. The character of Mary Goodnight is just too dumb. The action is low key, with the exception of the Astro-Spiral car jump, and that is spoilt somewhat by the slide whistle. And the script did not realise the full potential of the one-on-one confrontation between Bond & Scaramanga, amongst other things.

I really enjoy TMWTGG despite the shortcomings. I find I can watch it from start to finish more comfortably than the likes of OHMSS, DAF, MR, NSNA, TND & DAD.

Dan Same

TMWTGG, is along with LTK, an example of a Bond film which IMO has an amazing concept, but a terrible execution. I love the idea of Bond going up against a master assassin, but the film is far too silly. It does have some good things going for it (*the treatment of the women, Christopher Lee's performance, **the final scene) but it also has too many flaws (the silliness, the stupidity of Mary Goodnight, a bad script) which prevent it from being a good Bond film. It's 15th on my list; meaning that while IMO it's not terrible, nor is it particularly good.

*See my earlier post on this thread for why I like the treatment of the women.

**The final scene involving Goodnight's name is a guilty pleasure of mine.

actonsteve

When I first noticed Bond fandom in the 1980's. I was stunned that TMWTGG had such a bad reputation.

I will admit. It was slung together quickly in 1974 (it was the only film made at Pinewood that year and kept the studio afloat)but it does have imagination - a solar panel from a mushroom rock, the funhouse, the beach duel, the karate school, those islands off the coast of China, and some wonderful Mankiewiczs' lines.

OK, it has Mary Goodnight and Sherriff JW Pepper. And the bit with the baby elephant should have been cut - even Cubby acknoledged that. But Christopher Lee is superb and its an enjoyable premise. A cat and mouse game around the Far East where you do not know who is chasing whom. And Andrea Anders is an interesting character - a woman so terrified of her lover she arranges for the only man who can kill him to track him down.

Also, there is that lush John Barry score and the dinner scene is a kind of classic. So not perfect but there is alot to enjoy.

And it feels Bondish,which is more then alot of Brosnans did...

blueman

Some good in it, but too much bad. After the promising LALD it seems they got the mix wrong...it's almost like watching two films at the same time, conflicting and overlapping each other.

Loeffelholz

Truth be told, I enjoy TMWTGG more than the vast majority of people who post on AJB---I suppose I afford the 'Kung Fu sister' plot device, etc., the same sort of charitable forgiveness given by countless others to: OP's Tarzan Yell and Q-piloted Union Jack hot-air balloon, MR's Jaws 'romance' and double-taking pigeon...and AVTAK's awful 'California Girls' snowsurfing and 'Keystone Cops'-ripoff fire-ladder schtick...

If you're a tried-and-true, through-and-through, die-hard Bond fan, the chances are very good you've done some forgiving of your own, at some point, over the course of 21 pictures ;%

What each of us forgive---and choose not to forgive---is what makes us one of the most interesting fan communities in all of pop culture B-)

Hank

It could have been really great. The story of Bond vs. a legendary hitman is fantastic. The cartoon crap just blew it big time though.

If a Bond were remade again, it should be this one. Imagine it being fast paced and violent. (Daniel Craig anyone?)

Willie Garvin

Loeffelholz wrote:

Truth be told, I enjoy TMWTGG more than the vast majority of people who post on AJB---I suppose I afford the 'Kung Fu sister' plot device, etc., the same sort of charitable forgiveness given by countless others to: OP's Tarzan Yell and Q-piloted Union Jack hot-air balloon, MR's Jaws 'romance' and double-taking pigeon...and AVTAK's awful 'California Girls' snowsurfing and 'Keystone Cops'-ripoff fire-ladder schtick...


If you're a tried-and-true, through-and-through, die-hard Bond fan, the chances are very good you've done some forgiving of your own, at some point, over the course of 21 pictures ;%

What each of us forgive---and choose not to forgive---is what makes us one of the most interesting fan communities in all of pop culture B-)

The Man With the Golden Gun should have been a good movie,but it isn't.It had plenty of potential but--IMO--the screenplay's absolutely terrible, and the whole tone is wrong.This isn't a reflection on the actors, because they're not responsible for the inane plot or the dialogue.It's really too bad Scaramanga didn't put a bullet between Nick Nack's eyes the moment he walked into view--this would've improved TMWTGG immensely(along with removing J.W.Pepper and the entire Solex Agitator subplot).It's a badly made motion picture,and if it'd been the first film in the series it would've also been the last.

Over the years I've forgiven several of the Bond films,but this one --and A View to a Kill-- are just unforgivable as far as I'm concerned.I actually paid to see them, but I sincerely believe that I'd have to be paid to see them again...:v

As the old saying goes,even a garbage can from Tiffany's is still a garbage can.

taity

the DVD special features documentry removes the slide whistle, replacing it insted with the music of when Bond sneaks into Anders room earlier on. Made the whole sequence much better. I wonder who came up with the slide whistle anyway.

I love the dinner scene between Bond and Scaramanga, very well written. And if only Maud Addams had been in it for more than 10 mins, such a waste.

I liked Brit Ekland as Goodnight, just wish she had a better role.

nantoons007

This is my favourite of Moore's Bond films. yes, i had it's silliness, but it also had one of the best car chases. The music in that scene was great, and Scaramanga's car turning into a plane leaving Bond behind had a nice twist to it.(it's usually Bond that has the cool gadgets.) And of course the lunch scene; big up's to the writers, excellent delivery by Moore & Lee.

Moore Not Less

nantoons007 wrote:

The music in that scene was great, and Scaramanga's car turning into a plane leaving Bond behind had a nice twist to it.(it's usually Bond that has the cool gadgets.)

Yes, this is one of the things I do enjoy about TMWTGG. It's the villain who has the gadgets, the car plane, the golden gun. What does Bond have? A fake third nipple. A nice twist indeed.

blueman

Tried watching it again today...by the time I got to the final duel I just didn't care, even with the few nice bits along the way. I was hoping the Chinese Army would bomb the island into oblivion, end my misery, Moore's misery, Lee's misery...sad. Hybrid Bond, half cartoon and half serious spy film, and really poorly made for far too much of it. Dang. It's like everybody involved went to SE Asia, got really drunk, and made a Bond film--but forgot to sober up first.

heartbroken_mr_drax

Dan Same wrote:

TMWTGG, is along with LTK, an example of a Bond film which IMO has an amazing concept, but a terrible execution. I love the idea of Bond going up against a master assassin, but the film is far too silly. It does have some good things going for it (*the treatment of the women, Christopher Lee's performance, **the final scene) but it also has too many flaws (the silliness, the stupidity of Mary Goodnight, a bad script) which prevent it from being a good Bond film. It's 15th on my list; meaning that while IMO it's not terrible, nor is it particularly good.

*See my earlier post on this thread for why I like the treatment of the women.

**The final scene involving Goodnight's name is a guilty pleasure of mine.

Dan, Why do you find sexism fun to watch?

Dan Same

heartbroken_mr_drax wrote:

Dan, Why do you find sexism fun to watch?

Sexism IMO is one of the things that I think makes Bond Bond. There are things that he does (turns Miss Taro in to the police but only after he sleeps with her) that are fundamentally Bond and which makes him IMO the fascinating character that he is. In real life sexism (like violence) isn't fun, but in Bond films, sexism (like violence) is IMO. In fact, it's interesting to me that I'm justifying why I consider the sexism in Bond films to be fun yet nobody would ask me to justify why I consider the violence to be fun. ) Or anyone else. There are many threads talking about best/favourite action scenes, yet none of the people who post in these threads would find the action scenes (car crashes, fight scenes) fun to watch in real life. At least I hope not. Anyway, the point is, it's a film, and in films, alot of thing are fun which aren't in real life.

Here is a a post of mine from earlier on in this thread:

Dan Same wrote:

I love Bond's treatment of the women in TMWTGG. The reason being that it showcases the playfulness, arrogance, sexism, ruthlessness and sexiness of Bond; he's willing to hit a woman in order to get information and he sleeps with a woman with another in the closet. He isn't a saint in these scenes, but Bond isn't a saint either. In fact, I would argue that Bond sleeping with a woman with another in the closet in TMWTGG isn't more immoral or unethical than his sleeping with a married woman in CR. :v (On second thoughs, perhaps it is, which means that Craig is just a choir boy compared to Moore. )

AlFo

A lot of people say moore is nothing like bond etc but then they moan about him being sxexist. Silly!

In a side note, my nan is from Thailand but can speak chinese too. It took here a while to realise that the two girls were speaking in different languages(thai and chinese I assume).

Napoleon Han Solo

I unapologetically love the Man With The Golden Gun. People may find it silly but what is silly is the suddenly modish yen for Bond to be like a "real world" spy. If you want a real world spy, watch The Spy Who Came in From the Cold. Bond is an expression of the id, what psychologists and sociologists sometimes refer to as the "erotic other." His movies appear to take place in the real world but they are flights of imagination, and our half-conscious desires are being expressed. And yes, this also goes for the gritty Casino Royale, which simply expresses our inner fantasies in a way that conforms to modern tastes.

If people don't like outlandish, high flying chases, why do they watch Bond movies? I just find reading so many of these entries, it's like everything that is of Bond, a Bond trademark, is suddenly an anathema to the fans, who want Bond to be pursuing very modest goals and having very minor skirmishes.

It is not important that TMWTGG is not taking place in our world, it is a convincing, gripping film because both main characters are given identifiable motivations. I love the part where Bond and Scaramanga discuss their priorities over lunch, but do you want the entire film to be like that? No, this merely makes the action more exciting because we know where they are coming from.

I think Scaramanga's island and its locale is the most beautiful of Bond settings. I love Villechaize as a henchman for Christopher Lee, in fact just the inclusion of those two actors makes me love this film. I also love the funhouse set, it's great, given S.'s background, that he built this for himself.

Also, Moore looks really good in the physical fighting scenes. For some reason people don't like the karate school girls, who to me were anticipatory of the coming invasion of Manga into our culture; in fact, that part seems quite current. TMWTGG is one of the most conceptually brilliant of Bond pictures.

People need to stop judging movies by their own modern-based standards, and look at the bigger picture. This film is one of the fastest paced and most linear in the series, and it is also really fun.

Sir Hillary Bray

Napoleon Han Solo wrote:

I unapologetically love the Man With The Golden Gun. People may find it silly but what is silly is the suddenly modish yen for Bond to be like a "real world" spy. If you want a real world spy, watch The Spy Who Came in From the Cold. Bond is an expression of the id, what psychologists and sociologists sometimes refer to as the "erotic other." His movies appear to take place in the real world but they are flights of imagination, and our half-conscious desires are being expressed. And yes, this also goes for the gritty Casino Royale, which simply expresses our inner fantasies in a way that conforms to modern tastes.

If people don't like outlandish, high flying chases, why do they watch Bond movies? I just find reading so many of these entries, it's like everything that is of Bond, a Bond trademark, is suddenly an anathema to the fans, who want Bond to be pursuing very modest goals and having very minor skirmishes.

It is not important that TMWTGG is not taking place in our world, it is a convincing, gripping film because both main characters are given identifiable motivations. I love the part where Bond and Scaramanga discuss their priorities over lunch, but do you want the entire film to be like that? No, this merely makes the action more exciting because we know where they are coming from.

I think Scaramanga's island and its locale is the most beautiful of Bond settings. I love Villechaize as a henchman for Christopher Lee, in fact just the inclusion of those two actors makes me love this film. I also love the funhouse set, it's great, given S.'s background, that he built this for himself.

Also, Moore looks really good in the physical fighting scenes. For some reason people don't like the karate school girls, who to me were anticipatory of the coming invasion of Manga into our culture; in fact, that part seems quite current. TMWTGG is one of the most conceptually brilliant of Bond pictures.

People need to stop judging movies by their own modern-based standards, and look at the bigger picture. This film is one of the fastest paced and most linear in the series, and it is also really fun.

Oh settle down. No one would ask you to apologize for your admiration of TMWTGGp, NHS, but when you draw broad generalizatons like this, you're way off base. To say, in effect, disliking TMWTGG = disliking only because it's silly = being a faddish revisionist = not really being a true fan is just baloney.

To me, it's not the silliness that ultimately kills the film. There's plenty of that, to be sure, but much of it I actually like (such as the slide whistle and Nick Nack). Some big problems with TMWTGG IMO include the obvious rushed and disjointed nature of the film, the complete repetition of the funhouse sequence, a cast of dimwitted characters (save Bond, Scaramanga and Nick Nack).

However, for me the biggest drawback to the film is Roger Moore's bizarre performance, easily his worst of the series. He takes a huge step backward from LALD, where he seemed comfortable and assured as Bond. In TMWTGG he toggles back and forth between playing it light and trying to act like a hard-ass, which he struggles with. I don't know if it was the script, or if he was trying to seem more like Connery, or what, but it doesn't work. Thank goodness he rebounded in an even huger way and delivered an absolute gem of a performance in TSWLM.

Dan Same

Fish1941 wrote:

Sir Hillary Bray wrote:

However, for me the biggest drawback to the film is Roger Moore's bizarre performance, easily his worst of the series. He takes a huge step backward from LALD, where he seemed comfortable and assured as Bond. In TMWTGG he toggles back and forth between playing it light and trying to act like a hard-ass, which he struggles with. I don't know if it was the script, or if he was trying to seem more like Connery, or what, but it doesn't work. Thank goodness he rebounded in an even huger way and delivered an absolute gem of a performance in TSWLM.

This is pretty accurate of how I feel about Moore's performance in TMWTGG. Many say that he had finally became comfortable as Bond in TSWLM. Actually, I thought that he seemed pretty comfortable in the role in LALD. But in TMWTGG, it seemed as if he was trying to be Connery. I wonder if this has anything to do with fans who were bemoaning back in 73/74 that Moore seemed nothing like Connery. If so, Moore and EON Productions should have ignored them and continued his Bond interpretation from LALD. Thankfully, he finally did this in TSWLM.

I too didn't love Moore's performance (and I consider it to be his second weakest ever performance) however my complaint with it is different to yours. I loved it when Moore acted like a hard-ass (such as his treatment of the women) and I thought he did a fantastic job.

My problem is that he otherwise played the role too lightly, and while I usually wouldn't have a problem with it, I think that TMWTGG required a darker tone. It wasn't provided by the script (IMO TMWTGG's biggest flaw; it destroyed what I thought was a brilliant concept) and it wasn't provided by Moore. I have always thought that Moore was able to balance out the suaveness/humour with the ruthlessness/seriousness superbly and was also always quite interesting but in TMWWGG, I thought that Moore wasn't as comfortable as in LALD and more significantly wasn't as hard-headed as I thought that the film required. I think that Moore should have done TMWTGG later on in his career, or preferably, I think a better script should have been written.

Dan Same

Fish1941 wrote:

. . . or preferably, I think a better script should have been written.

Considering how I feel about TMWTGG, I agree.

Finally, we agree on something.

arthur pringle

I watched this film last night for the first time on DVD and I enjoyed it a lot more than I remember in the past. Roger Moore's punch-up in the belly dancer's dressing-room ("I've lost my charm!"), the car-chase, Christopher Lee as possibly the classiest villain in the series, Nic Nac, a wonderful John Barry score, great use of locales and colour. Great fun. I would say though that Moore is required (IMO) to play agaisnt his strengths at times.

blueman

It's probably the best Bond film that EON never made: drop the funhouse and Pepper (or at minimum his wife), tighten up the various plot strings, have Bond and Scaramanga cross paths in the precredits (but only obliquely) to set up the finale...dang, that would've been so good. But that's the 70s for ya, woulda coulda shoulda.

If there's one Bond film screaming for a remake, it's this one. Or, jump in the way-back machine, wear a Broccoli mask, and demand a friggin' rewrite.

Osato

"I wonder who came up with the slide whistle anayway."

I recall the great John Barry confessing in a tv documentary that it was he who added the slide whistle to the car jump, and that it was the single biggest regret of his entire career!

Moore Not Less

Osato wrote:

"I wonder who came up with the slide whistle anayway."

I recall the great John Barry confessing in a tv documentary that it was he who added the slide whistle to the car jump, and that it was the single biggest regret of his entire career!

I don't believe John Barry should have any real regret over the slide whistle. Considering his magnificent contribution to the Bond series I'd say he was entitled to make the odd mistake. He most likely just did not realise how significant the astro-spiral car jump was.

And anyway, you only have to turn the sound off for a couple of seconds if you don't like it.

Steed

Yeah, that 'slide whistle' was awful, but that wasn't the only flaw of the scene- having Sheriff Pepper 'whooping and hollering', so to speak, was just as embarassing, imho. In a documentary on the Bond themes, John Barry speaks of his acute embarassment about the main theme- I seem to recall he said it's the worst he'd ever been involved in, but he definitely said it was 'plain bad'. I definitely agree with that- the lyrics are cringeworthy, imho.:s

taity

Its funny, but as bad as the song is it does actually fit very nicely into the musical score. Mainly the scene where bond sneaks into Maud Addams hotel room. I guess even John Barry being bad is still good.

Audioquest

I have a soft spot for this one. Why?

The Locales: Far east setting is exotic and gorgeously filmed. I think they captured the Far East much better in this one than they did in YOLT.

Villain: Christopher Lee as Scaramanga was a great choice.

Girls: Maude Adams looked very exotic in this one and although most people hate the Mary Goodnight character, Britt Ekland has one of the hottest bodies of any bond girl and it is on wonderful display in that brown and blue bikini.

Car Chase: I love watching that 1974 AMC Hornet V8 Sportback chasing the 1974 AMC Matador Coupe. Boy, that Matador was ugly. "I sure am, boy".

Q Branch Scene: Bond's irritation at Q and the other fellow discussing the nickel content of the bullet is classic. "Chap that made the bullet, 007".

Besides the usual discussed problems with this film, there are some plot issues that bother me:

- Why does Anders treat Bond so poorly when he breaks into her hotel room considering she was the one that sent him the bullet in the first place? Doesn't she want his help?

- Why is Sherrif Pepper shopping for a car in Thailand?

- How does M know that Bond and Goodnight are aboard Scaramanga's Junk at the end of the movie and how does he know the phone number? Is Scaramanga's number listed?

Those are just a few.