James Brolin, what if?

Got 'Octopussy' on DVD for Christmas. Thought the James Brolin screentest is excellent. Brolin wouldn't have made a good Bond at all but it's fun to see an american have a stab at it. What would have been good is if Sean Connery had come back for Octopussy and Brolin had played Bond in 'Never Say Never Again' :007)
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  • BarbelBarbel ScotlandPosts: 37,870Chief of Staff
    If Brolin had been Bond in NSNA, the film wouldn't have been made! I enjoyed watching his screentest (and listening to his intros) on the new OP DVD, but I'm glad Sir Roger came back in the end.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    I'm curious. Did Brolin attempt a British accent? I have noticed that British actors -- men, that is -- are much better at American accents than American actors are at British accents. Only rarely do I find them convincing as Brits. On the other hand, American actresses seem to do British accents well, at least to my American ears.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    highhopes wrote:
    I'm curious. Did Brolin attempt a British accent?

    No--he uses his normal accent, which is what convinced me he couldn't and shouldn't be Bond. I'm a red-blooded, patriotic American, but some jobs should be left to the Brits!
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    I'm curious. Did Brolin attempt a British accent?

    No--he uses his normal accent, which is what convinced me he couldn't and shouldn't be Bond. I'm a red-blooded, patriotic American, but some jobs should be left to the Brits!

    I know what you mean. I don't see how they could have even considered an American to play James Bond. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Seem to remember Brolin having a beard in the 80's. Did he shave that off for the screentest?
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    John Drake wrote:
    Seem to remember Brolin having a beard in the 80's. Did he shave that off for the screentest?

    To be honest, I don't really remember Brolin sporting a beard all the time. Anyway, he was clean-shaven for the test.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Klaus HergescheimerKlaus Hergescheimer Posts: 332MI6 Agent
    Hardyboy wrote:
    I'm a red-blooded, patriotic American, but some jobs should be left to the Brits!

    I'm going to have to go ahead and say that, IMO, this is nonsense. If there's an American actor with the ability to pull it off and to do a convincing British accent, then he should by all means be considered. There's been an actor from a non-UK former British colony (Lazenby from Australia), so I don't see what the problem would be with an actor from the US, a former British colony, who has a British/Irish/Anglo-Saxon ethnicity.

    That said, I can't think of an American actor who, specifically, would have been a great Bond, because there's not an actor who I can remember being able to do an exceptional job with a British accent. I would love to have seen my hero, Steve McQueen, take on Bond, but I can't remember a movie in which he played a British character or tried a British accent.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    On the DAF DVD, they mention the American John Gavin was a serious contender for 007. He was a pretty svelte guy. I wouldn't have objected to him playing the part.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
    John Drake wrote:
    On the DAF DVD, they mention the American John Gavin was a serious contender for 007. He was a pretty svelte guy. I wouldn't have objected to him playing the part.

    Gavin literally got the part--he was signed to a contract and the producers were pretty well ready to make Bond an American. However, United Artists managed to lure Connery back, and, as a result, had to buy out Gavin's contract.

    And, Klaus, call it nonsense if you will, but that's where I stand.
    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Willie GarvinWillie Garvin Posts: 1,412MI6 Agent
    edited December 2006
    Hardyboy wrote:
    John Drake wrote:
    On the DAF DVD, they mention the American John Gavin was a serious contender for 007. He was a pretty svelte guy. I wouldn't have objected to him playing the part.

    Gavin literally got the part--he was signed to a contract and the producers were pretty well ready to make Bond an American. However, United Artists managed to lure Connery back, and, as a result, had to buy out Gavin's contract.

    And, Klaus, call it nonsense if you will, but that's where I stand.

    Actually,John Gavin volunteered to step aside for Connery,and for no payment at all.Cubby was impressed with Gavin's gentlemanly conduct and insisted that Gavin receive what he would have been paid had he played James Bond.This is the story Cubby tells in his autobiography.

    And back to the question at hand:what about Pierce Brosnan,then?He was an Irishman--definitely not British--at the start of his period as 007,and before he finished as Bond,he'd become a naturalized American citizen.First a Mick and then a Yank.Neither nationality exactly tallies with what Ian Fleming gave the James Bond character.

    Yes,I know--that's "different" because Brosnan was previously established as Remington Steele(who,by the way,was not British either--but Irish, like Brosnan).But growing up in Britain doesn't make someone born outside that country British.
  • Klaus HergescheimerKlaus Hergescheimer Posts: 332MI6 Agent
    And back to the question at hand:what about Pierce Brosnan,then?He was an Irishman--definitely not British--at the start of his period as 007,and before he finished as Bond,he'd become a naturalized American citizen.First a Mick and then a Yank.Neither nationality exactly tallies with what Ian Fleming gave the James Bond character.

    Well, Fleming did describe Bond as looking like an "American film star." Also, Bond reflects in the novels that there's something not very British about him. So, you could make the argument, based on Fleming's text, that an American film star playing Bond is legit. Just as long as he can pull off the accent.
  • HardyboyHardyboy Posts: 5,906Chief of Staff
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    Vox clamantis in deserto
  • Secret Asian ManSecret Asian Man Posts: 18MI6 Agent
    Were they the producers planning on using the American actors like John Gavin, Burt Reynolds and James Brolin use their normal way to speak. Does anybody know if these actors spoke like regular or were they were suppose to use a British accent?
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    I have noticed that British actors -- men, that is -- are much better at American accents than American actors are at British accents. Only rarely do I find them convincing as Brits.
    That said, I can't think of an American actor who, specifically, would have been a great Bond, because there's not an actor who I can remember being able to do an exceptional job with a British accent.

    I'm wondering if the folks on this site from the U.K. can think of a male American actor who does a convincing British (or Scot or Irish or Australian, etc ...) accent. Your ears are no doubt better than Klaus' and mine in this regard. I'm not talking about a Bond candidate, necessarily; it could be anybody.
  • Moore Not LessMoore Not Less Posts: 1,095MI6 Agent
    Well, couldn't it be argued that we have had an American actor as Bond already? Isn't Pierce Brosnan an American citizen? He has certainly spent a good deal of his life living there.

    I admire James Brolin as an actor and I think he's very good in films like Westworld and Capricorn One. But there's no way I could have accepted him as James Bond based on his Octopussy screentest.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:

    I'm wondering if the folks on this site from the U.K. can think of a male American actor who does a convincing British (or Scot or Irish or Australian, etc ...) accent. Your ears are no doubt better than Klaus' and mine in this regard. I'm not talking about a Bond candidate, necessarily; it could be anybody.

    The only guy I can think of is Alexis Denisof, who appeared in the TV series 'Angel.' I was very surprised to find out he was an American. Did live in the UK for over a decade though, which maybe helped. Johnny Depp has made some decent attempts as well, 'The Libertine,' a not bad Scots accent in 'Finding Neverland. Aidan Quinn does a good Irish accent, (Michael Collins) but then I think he comes from an Irish-American background.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Just seen Brolin's screentests for 007, on the OP DVD. I was impressed by him. He looks great and it would have been interesting to see him play the role for real. Whether the patriotic Brits would have accepted him though is another thing. I noticed also that one of the sequences they filmed him doing was the Tatania Romanov scene from FRWL. This was also the same sequence that Sam Neill acted out on TLD DVD. I wonder if this is the standard sequence Eon uses to test all potential 007's.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    Just seen Brolin's screentests for 007, on the OP DVD. I was impressed by him. He looks great and it would have been interesting to see him play the role for real. Whether the patriotic Brits would have accepted him though is another thing. I noticed also that one of the sequences they filmed him doing was the Tatania Romanov scene from FRWL. This was also the same sequence that Sam Neill acted out on TLD DVD. I wonder if this is the standard sequence Eon uses to test all potential 007's.

    I wouldn't care if an American played Bond, so long as they could do a convincing English/Scottish/Irish/Australian accent. The only trouble is that I can't think of an American actor that can. I've said this before, but male English/Scottish/Irish/Australian actors seem to have an easier time sounding American than Americans have sounding English/Scottish/Irish/Australian. I'd like to see Brolin's test. He's kind of wooden, but does look good in a tux. Does he use an accent?
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    Does he use an accent?

    No. He's quite well spoken though, but distintively American. There's an interview with him in which he discusses how Cubby thought it best that he didn't put on an accent. But Brolin felt Cubby had doubts about whether or not people would accept a Bond who spoke with an American accent.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    Does he use an accent?

    No. He's quite well spoken though, but distintively American. There's an interview with him in which he discusses how Cubby thought it best that he didn't put on an accent. But Brolin felt Cubby had doubts about whether or not people would accept a Bond who spoke with an American accent.

    I think his doubts were well-founded. A big part of Bond's appeal is that he's British. It's a romantic thing: he's on her Majesty's secret service, not working for the company (by the way, John, I finally saw The Company: I liked it, too). It would be as jarring to me to hear Bond speak with an American accent as it would be to hear Batman, for example, speak with a British or French accent. These are characters who just don't make sense in any other nationality.
  • SolarisSolaris Blackpool, UKPosts: 308MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    I noticed also that one of the sequences they filmed him doing was the Tatania Romanov scene from FRWL. This was also the same sequence that Sam Neill acted out on TLD DVD. I wonder if this is the standard sequence Eon uses to test all potential 007's.

    I have heared that The Tatania Scene is a standard Test. I'm sure I heared Craig did it. They also cast Maryam d'Abo in Living Daylights because of the way she performed with Dalton in that scene.
    so yeah, I'm willing to bet they test all potential Bonds with this scene, to see if they stand up to Mr Connery.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    Solaris wrote:
    I have heared that The Tatania Scene is a standard Test. I'm sure I heared Craig did it. They also cast Maryam d'Abo in Living Daylights because of the way she performed with Dalton in that scene.
    so yeah, I'm willing to bet they test all potential Bonds with this scene, to see if they stand up to Mr Connery.

    {[] I thought that might be the case. It's an interesting scene for them to use. It's quite a seductive scene, but both actors are doing the seducing.
  • MailfistMailfist Posts: 246MI6 Agent
    From various and numerous articles which I have read over the years there have been a number of American actors considered for the part of Bond. In addition to John Gavin and James Brolin apparently both Robert Wagner and Burt Reynolds were also considered.

    Whereas I do not think any of them would have had problems with the looks, charm (particuliarly Wagner) or abilities in the fight scenes (particuliarly Reynolds) I do not think any of them would have been readily accepted as a British scret agent.
  • MailfistMailfist Posts: 246MI6 Agent
    From various and numerous articles which I have read over the years there have been a number of American actors considered for the part of Bond. In addition to John Gavin and James Brolin apparently both Robert Wagner and Burt Reynolds were also considered.

    Whereas I do not think any of them would have had problems with the looks, charm (particuliarly Wagner) or abilities in the fight scenes (particuliarly Reynolds) I do not think any of them would have been readily accepted as a British scret agent.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    John Drake wrote:
    Solaris wrote:
    I have heared that The Tatania Scene is a standard Test. I'm sure I heared Craig did it. They also cast Maryam d'Abo in Living Daylights because of the way she performed with Dalton in that scene.
    so yeah, I'm willing to bet they test all potential Bonds with this scene, to see if they stand up to Mr Connery.


    {[] I thought that might be the case. It's an interesting scene for them to use. It's quite a seductive scene, but both actors are doing the seducing.

    That's interesting. It is a great scene and I can see how it would be a good benchmark for picking a 007.

    It would be fun for EON to put out a DVD of nothing but Bond auditions. I imagine they have quite a library.
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    Mailfist wrote:
    From various and numerous articles which I have read over the years there have been a number of American actors considered for the part of Bond. In addition to John Gavin and James Brolin apparently both Robert Wagner and Burt Reynolds were also considered.

    Whereas I do not think any of them would have had problems with the looks, charm (particuliarly Wagner) or abilities in the fight scenes (particuliarly Reynolds) I do not think any of them would have been readily accepted as a British scret agent.

    I've heard that Gavin was used as a sort of placeholder to pressure Connery into returning to the fold. I'm wondering if those other American actors weren't used in roughly the same way. Like you, I just don't see the public going for that kind of casting.
  • John DrakeJohn Drake On assignmentPosts: 2,564MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    It would be fun for EON to put out a DVD of nothing but Bond auditions. I imagine they have quite a library.

    That would be great. I've only seen Sam Neill's and Brolin's. I'd love to see some of the 90's contenders, Jeremy Northam for instance. And if there is any footage of John Gavin that would be wonderful to see. Incidentally HH, I can remember in the OSS 117 thread, that you mentioned you could remember the original OSS 117 films. John Gavin appeared in one of them. Did you ever catch that one?
  • emtiememtiem SurreyPosts: 5,949MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    It would be fun for EON to put out a DVD of nothing but Bond auditions. I imagine they have quite a library.

    Gosh- I'd love to even just read a full rundown of actors they've looked at. I recently discovered a guy who knows many more than I do and there's some surprising names in there (although you might have to know British pop culture to get a few of them)- not all tested but all were considered (and more of course!)
    Obviously Michael Billington (there's some test pictures of him as Bond here: http://www.michaelbillington.org.uk/html/bond.html ); Michael Jayston; James Fox; Rod Taylor; Anthony Valentine; Michael Gambon; Patrick Mower; Simon Oates; ike McStay; Hans De Vries; Robert Campbell; Anthony Rogers; John Richardson; Jeremy Brett (Sherlock!); Bob Langley; Roy Thinnes; Adam West (Batman!); Paul Newman (asked but didn't call back!); Robert Wagner (very probably); Oliver Reed (rejected by the studio before he could test); Sir Ranulph Fiennes (the explorer!); Oliver Tobias; Andrew Clarke; Antony Hamilton; Lewis Collins (broke Bob Simmons' ribs!); Peter Snow (the newsreader!); Lambert Wilson; David Warbeck (a superb screentest, I'm told- he was even signed to do Moonraker if Roger didn't); Trevor Eve (quite a big TV star in the UK and was in very serious contention- apparently his test was very good too); Neil Dickson (shortest at 5' 9"); Patrick McGoohan; John Richardson (not great); Gordon Williams (bit of a model); Alan Rickman (screentested in the early 80's)... tonnes and tonnes of fascinating stuff. What I'd give to have a rummage in their archives! :)
  • highhopeshighhopes Posts: 1,358MI6 Agent
    edited January 2008
    John Drake wrote:
    highhopes wrote:
    It would be fun for EON to put out a DVD of nothing but Bond auditions. I imagine they have quite a library.

    That would be great. I've only seen Sam Neill's and Brolin's. I'd love to see some of the 90's contenders, Jeremy Northam for instance. And if there is any footage of John Gavin that would be wonderful to see. Incidentally HH, I can remember in the OSS 117 thread, that you mentioned you could remember the original OSS 117 films. John Gavin appeared in one of them. Did you ever catch that one?

    I'm not sure. They're a pretty dim memory. I saw several of them, but all I remember now is a title, and in French at that: Banco a Bankok pour OSS 117. I couldn't tell you what the story was about. Gavin might have played Hugo, but it might also have been another American, a B-movie actor whose last name was Forsythe or Forrest -- something like that. The only other thing I remember seeing him in was Hitchcock's Topaz, I think.

    EDIT: I just looked it up on the Web. Actually, it was Frederick Stafford, who looked at lot like Gavin. But Kerwin Matthews played Hugh in Banco
  • Sir Hillary BraySir Hillary Bray College of ArmsPosts: 2,174MI6 Agent
    highhopes wrote:
    I wouldn't care if an American played Bond, so long as they could do a convincing English/Scottish/Irish/Australian accent. The only trouble is that I can't think of an American actor that can. I've said this before, but male English/Scottish/Irish/Australian actors seem to have an easier time sounding American than Americans have sounding English/Scottish/Irish/Australian.
    Agree 100% with this. In other threads, I have had a go at people who insist an American could never play Bond. I must confess, my argument is theoretical, because I can't actually think of an American actor who could pull off the accent. I do remember being surprised to learn that Alessandro Nivola is American. He played a Brit quite well in Laurel Canyon and had him pegged as British (or maybe Italian). That movie really was Bizarro World -- you had Nivola playing a Brit, while Kate Beckinsale and Christian Bale played Americans. :s

    I have come to the conclusion that you have to have a really great ear to go from British accent to American and vice versa -- and not many actors are very good at it. Hugh Laurie slips into his native tongue all the time on House, and the woman on CSI is even worse. Last week, I watched Linus Roache's debut on Law & Order -- try as he might to affect a thick New Yaaaaawwk accent, his Euro-ness shows through constantly.
    Hilly...you old devil!
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