"Rome"

Loeffelholz · January 2007

I'm egregiously late to this particular party, ;% but...

I recently suffered a bout of insomnia...started poking about, in the wee-small hours of the morning, on my digital cable TV menu...and came across "Rome," which HBO co-produced with the BBC, but which somehow evaded me for the entirety of its first season.

Don't get me wrong: I knew of its existence, and always intended to check it out, as I've always been fascinated by ancient civilizations and military history in general (and the Roman empire in particular), but---between my own writing projects and this particular Bond site, coupled with a certain impending Bond film---I just never got round to watching it.

Well...Episode #9 was the earliest one currently available in the 'On Demand' program my cable company provides (for a confiscatory fee!), so I decided to take the plunge---and...Wow

That particular episode opened with a conversation between two Roman generals, in the middle of a barren countryside, discussing what the future might hold for them. In the next couple of scenes, one of them committed suicide, and the other voluntarily surrendered his throat to the knife of a subordinate...Then, I was transported to Rome, where two other men---former soldiers in the Roman army---were struggling to make their way as civilians...meanwhile, Julius Caesar was proclaimed Emperor for the next ten years...and shortly thereafter, Emperor for Life...

So I watched the remaining episodes (through #12) in rapid succession, and

I saw that the first episode of the second season was available...so I watched that one, as well...

And now I've just ordered the Complete First Season from Overstock.com...

James Purefoy is very good, IMRO, as Mark Antony, and I couldn't help but reflect on what his Bond might have been like...When the 'Who Will Be The Next Bond??' discussion was raging here (and elsewhere), I often gave a tentative nod to the possibility that Purefoy could have done it---based mostly on his looks alone---but having seen him work, I'm now convinced he could have done a very serviceable 'status quo'-style Bond, given his age (early forties) and his considerable screen presence...

At any rate, I've done a forum search for 'Rome' and found no threads, so here it is. I'm curious as to who has seen this remarkable production, and what they think of it.

s96024 · January 2007

Got the whole first series on dvd somewhere. Never got round to watching any of it.

Dan Same · January 2007

I love Rome. I think it's a great show featuring terrific performances, amazing fight scenes, alot of intrigue and high quality scripts. My problem, though, is that here in Australia it is shown out of prime time and so I've missed one or two episodes.

Nonetheless, I look forward to watching it every week as it never disappoints me. -{

Nightshooter · January 2007

I've been wanting to watch this show, but never have. When they start airing (or put ON DEMAND) the first episodes again, if they ever do, I'll watch it.

Loeffelholz · January 2007

Episode two of the second season (#14 overall) is playing on HBO as I type this...but I'll have to catch it 'On Demand' one of these nights---after my kids go to bed. They can't be anywhere near this stuff

B-)

Something tells me Lucius Vorenus is going to be a pretty scary chap this season...

Loeffelholz · January 2007

I've just seen Episode #14, where Cleopatra visits Rome following the death of Julius Caesar. Meeting with Mark Antony, she announces that she's borne Caesar's son, and indicates her desire that he be officially recognized as such...

James Purefoy's Antony, after a few pleasantries, tells her "Your son will eat s**t and die before Rome recognizes him."

)

A quotable quote, from a show which provides many B-)

Napoleon Plural · January 2007

Loeffelholz wrote:

James Purefoy's Antony, after a few pleasantries, tells her "Your son will eat s**t and die before Rome recognizes him."

A quotable quote, from a show which provides many B-)

Sigh, how would Dennis Hopper from Speed put it?

"From Shakespeare's 'Cowards die many times before their deaths; / The valiant never taste of death but once' to 'Your son will eat s**t and die before Rome recognizes him' in under 500 years"

)

Loeffelholz · January 2007

The very fact that the dialogue isn't rife with flowery 'Shakespeareanisms' is one of my favourite aspects of the show...despite whatever changes have been made to improve its accessibility to a modern audience (and the show is often praised by scholars of of Roman history!), I'm gratified that it acknowledges that---even back then, or perhaps especially back then, so-called 'civilization' included many profane people who said and did profane things.

(It's worth mentioning that the F-bomb does get dropped here, and many have indicated this particular word didn't actually crop up until the Middle ages...but I've a hard time believing that the language of the culture which brought us the Roman orgy didn't have an action verb handy to discuss this sort of activity

)

It's this aspect of the production, when combined with the political intrigue, corruption, crime, jealousy, madness, slavery, sex, et al., that makes it a hell of a lot of fun to watch.

And the violence. Let's not forget the violence B-)

Alex · January 2007

I believe the first historical film to mutter an F word was Braveheart. Could be wrong, it's what I remember.

The series is on dvd for those not on a limited income. It's on my back burner since I really like those type of films. However television series do tend to suffer in these situations in maintaining a realistic setting. But I remember the early reviews and they dispelled this.

Loeffelholz · January 2007

The great thing about Rome is that HBO have already announced that this (second) season will be the last, so they're wisely avoiding the trap of hanging around too long and 'straying off the reservation,' so to speak...What we'll have, when all is said and done, is an excellent story about Ancient Rome, told in 24 one-hour chapters...

Season One dealt with Caesar's return to Rome following his triumph over the Gauls, and culminated with his fateful visit to the Senate during the Ides of March...

The current season deals with the aftermath of Caesar's death, the conflict between Antony and Octavian to fill the power vacuum, and Octavian's eventual ascension to the throne as Augustus B-)

Interestingly, these events are the secondary focus of the show. The primary focus is the lives of two veterans of Rome's 13th Legion, Julius Vorenus and Titus Pullo, and their lives in Rome after returning from the wars.

As you might suspect, I'm a big fan...

MAHO · January 2007

Just in case, here's a long list of films/serials about Ancient Rome:
http://goto.glocalnet.net/maho/uns/romefilms.html

Updates and corrections are highly welcome.

---
jfm

Dan Same · January 2007

Loeffelholz wrote:

A quotable quote, from a show which provides many B-)

It's a great quote. But then again much of the dialogue is terrific. It reminds me of a review that I read that criticised the show for its 'lack of authenticity,' claiming that alot of the language was was not around then. It annoyed me because if the show was truly authentic, the characters would speak in Latin!

Anyway, I think it's a fantastic show which I look forward to every week. -{

Loeffelholz · January 2007

I've just gone out to check my mailbox---and there it was: a parcel from Overstock.com, the complete first season of Rome on DVD

I'm very excited, as I've never seen the first eight episodes...

Guess what I'm doing when the kids go to bed tonight

delicious · January 2007

"Rome" is OK but it doesnt hold a candle to "I Claudius".

I like the fact that one of the soldiers impregnates Cleopatra instead of Caesar.

The guy who does it, I dont rememember his name, is a face we will seen more and more of in the future.

I watched 'Rome' because it was made by HBO who produced the brilliant and brutal prison series 'Oz' which is one of the best thing ever made for TV, and doubly so because it has many of the actors from 'Law and Order' like Christopher Meloni playing hardened unshaven criminals instead of smooth suit-wearing cops.

Pierce_Brosnan · January 2007

Loeffelholz wrote:

I'm egregiously late to this particular party, ;% but...

I recently suffered a bout of insomnia...started poking about, in the wee-small hours of the morning, on my digital cable TV menu...and came across "Rome," which HBO co-produced with the BBC, but which somehow evaded me for the entirety of its first season.

Don't get me wrong: I knew of its existence, and always intended to check it out, as I've always been fascinated by ancient civilizations and military history in general (and the Roman empire in particular), but---between my own writing projects and this particular Bond site, coupled with a certain impending Bond film---I just never got round to watching it.

Well...Episode #9 was the earliest one currently available in the 'On Demand' program my cable company provides (for a confiscatory fee!), so I decided to take the plunge---and...Wow

That particular episode opened with a conversation between two Roman generals, in the middle of a barren countryside, discussing what the future might hold for them. In the next couple of scenes, one of them committed suicide, and the other voluntarily surrendered his throat to the knife of a subordinate...Then, I was transported to Rome, where two other men---former soldiers in the Roman army---were struggling to make their way as civilians...meanwhile, Julius Caesar was proclaimed Emperor for the next ten years...and shortly thereafter, Emperor for Life...

So I watched the remaining episodes (through #12) in rapid succession, and I saw that the first episode of the second season was available...so I watched that one, as well...

And now I've just ordered the Complete First Season from Overstock.com...

James Purefoy is very good, IMRO, as Mark Antony, and I couldn't help but reflect on what his Bond might have been like...When the 'Who Will Be The Next Bond??' discussion was raging here (and elsewhere), I often gave a tentative nod to the possibility that Purefoy could have done it---based mostly on his looks alone---but having seen him work, I'm now convinced he could have done a very serviceable 'status quo'-style Bond, given his age (early forties) and his considerable screen presence...

At any rate, I've done a forum search for 'Rome' and found no threads, so here it is. I'm curious as to who has seen this remarkable production, and what they think of it.

This is a very good show, I would get tired of watching more than 2 in a row!

Loeffelholz · January 2007

delicious wrote:

"Rome" is OK but it doesnt hold a candle to "I Claudius".

I confess I've never seen "I Claudius," ;% but from what I understand, that show is precisely why Rome is going to end after its second season, just as Octavian becomes "Augustus." Apparently, "I Claudius" is the Gold Standard for the dramatization of the next segment of Roman history...I do believe I'll check it out...

delicious wrote:

I like the fact that one of the soldiers impregnates Cleopatra instead of Caesar.

The guy who does it, I dont rememember his name, is a face we will seen more and more of in the future.

That man, is, apparently, Titus Pullo, one of the featured characters of the show. I find this fascinating, but [crap!] I haven't seen that part yet...

Loeffelholz · February 2007

Okay...time for the Most Quotable Rome Line of the Week:

Brutus and Cassius are in one of the provinces of Turkey, trying to raise an army in opposition to Mark Antony; in essence, they ask a local leader what they can give him in order to secure his assistance.

The Turk's answer: "I want to see a Roman woman ****** by a baboon."

An awkward silence; Cassius asks if such entertainments are not readily available. The Turkish leader shakes his head. "No. We have no apes of any kind."

Again, they press for alternatives...but the Turkish leader insists: "I want to see a Roman woman ****** by a baboon."

A long pause. Cassius replies: "Perhaps that can be arranged."

Now that's foreign relations {[] ...yet another distinction to be drawn between Rome and I, Claudius

)

delicious · February 2007

The reasons why "I Claudius" is so good are:

1. its based on Robert Graves' novels which means the screenwriters had an easy time writing a decent screenplay as Grvaes had done most of the work for them.

2. it was done without external locations and before the days of special effects so the whole weight of the drama is carried by the actors and their lines. The fact that it is still better than a lot of more recent productions like "Rome"
show how good it is.

3. it has many actors who were at the start of their careers when they were in I Claudius and are now amongst the greats:

Derek Jacobi - Claudius
John Rhys-Davies - Macro (and General Leonid Pushkin in TLD)
John Hurt - Caligula
Patrick Stewart (with hair!) - Sejanus
Brian Blessed - Augustus
George Baker - Tiberius (Captain Benson in TSWLM)

Sadly, Sian Phillips who brilliantly plays Livia, Augustus' wife and is the main villainess of the piece, never really did anything great after "I Claudius". She suffered from what I call Tim Curry Syndrome - a condition where an actor is so identified with a part that they can never really do another. Tim Curry's fatal role was of coursde Dr Frankenfurter in Rocky Horror.

Robert Graves, like C. S. Lewis, is a bit of a Christian misogynist who tends to favour female villains (Lewis's White Witch, Graves's Livia, Messalina and Agrippinilla) but the drama is still great.

Check it out, its available on DVD. Its 12 hours long altogether.

Loeffelholz · February 2007

...If anyone here saw the end of Episode #16...

Wow. The moment when Titus Pullo pulls the knife out of the back of the slavemaster...and they cue the theme music, just before rolling end credits... B-)

Very satisfying stuff. If you're not watching, you're missing something very special...

Loeffelholz · March 2007

Episode #22, the Series Finale, aired last Sunday.

Anybody see this? I'd be curious to hear comments. Personally, I lament the passing of this series, but can accept that it ended at a good time---Octavian rising to power, soon to become the 'Augustus' known to history...

And my hat is off to James Purefoy---for whom I have cultivated considerable respect---for a show-stopping performance (particularly at the end) as Mark Antony. His stuff with Cleopatra (also brilliantly portrayed) was riveting.

highhopes · March 2007

delicious wrote:

The reasons why "I Claudius" is so good are:

1. its based on Robert Graves' novels which means the screenwriters had an easy time writing a decent screenplay as Grvaes had done most of the work for them.

2. it was done without external locations and before the days of special effects so the whole weight of the drama is carried by the actors and their lines. The fact that it is still better than a lot of more recent productions like "Rome"
show how good it is.

I, Claudius was also done without Polly Walker's tits. Which didn't help it any.

Seriously, you're absolutely right. I was a big fan of I, Claudius, but I like what I've seen of Rome -- which is only about half of the first season.

Loeffelholz wrote:

Episode #22, the Series Finale, aired last Sunday.

Anybody see this? I'd be curious to hear comments. Personally, I lament the passing of this series, but can accept that it ended at a good time---Octavian rising to power, soon to become the 'Augustus' known to history...

And my hat is off to James Purefoy---for whom I have cultivated considerable respect---for a show-stopping performance (particularly at the end) as Mark Antony. His stuff with Cleopatra (also brilliantly portrayed) was riveting.

I saw the last half of it and could kick myself. I didn't realize it was the finale. I plan on watching the whole thing in order at some point and having seen the ending bums me out. (of course, I already knew about the whole Tony/Cleo thing -- I'm talking about the other stuff)

I wish to hell HBO or someone would number the episodes in a continuing series so that the viewer would know where he was in the story. They do the same with the Sopranos. It's annoying.

But you're right about Purefroy.I didn't know who he was when people were touting him for Bond. When I Googled him, I figured, OK, he's a good-looking guy with dark-hair. That doesn't on its own make him a good Bond, IMO.
The few episodes of Rome I've seen did nothing to dispel my lukewarm feelings towards him. But he was sensational in the final episode. I was really impressed. So I can now see him as a worthy Bond candidate after DC takes his leave.

Loeffelholz · March 2007

Purefoy does such a good job as Antony, I think, that he succeeds in being off-putting, particularly early on, HH. Of course, it's not as if he becomes more likable as the series goes on, but his grasp of the character---as it moves through its arc, over the course of 22 episodes---is really quite amazing.

But there really are no weak performances in this show---including the great work done by Polly Walker's tits

)

)

Titus Pullo (Ray Stevenson) and Lucius Vorenus (Kevin McKidd) were intended by the series creators to be a sort of 'Forrest Gump'-like presence throughout, as they are continuously involved---whether tangentially or directly---in the historical events of the day.

Watching the DVD commentary tracks, I learned that Vorenus and Pullo are the only two low-ranking soldiers mentioned---by name---in Julius Caesar's personal memoirs...In the show, they clearly prove themselves to be two of the most dangerous m***********s on the face of ancient Earth B-)

highhopes · March 2007

Loeffelholz wrote:

Purefoy does such a good job as Antony, I think, that he succeeds in being off-putting, particularly early on, HH. Of course, it's not as if he becomes more likable as the series goes on, but his grasp of the character---as it moves through its arc, over the course of 22 episodes---is really quite amazing.

But there really are no weak performances in this show---including the great work done by Polly Walker's tits ) ) )

Titus Pullo (Ray Stevenson) and Lucius Vorenus (Kevin McKidd) were intended by the series creators to be a sort of 'Forrest Gump'-like presence throughout, as they are continuously involved---whether tangentially or directly---in the historical events of the day.

Watching the DVD commentary tracks, I learned that Vorenus and Pullo are the only two low-ranking soldiers mentioned---by name---in Julius Caesar's personal memoirs...In the show, they clearly prove themselves to be two of the most dangerous m***********s on the face of ancient Earth B-)

The guy who plays Vorenus reminds me of Craig. They could be brothers.
So why only two seasons? they have plenty of good, psychotic Roman emperors to go. Octavian was one of the better ones.

Loeffelholz · March 2007

highhopes wrote:

The guy who plays Vorenus reminds me of Craig. They could be brothers.
So why only two seasons? they have plenty of good, psychotic Roman emperors to go. Octavian was one of the better ones.

Interesting; my sister-in-law said the same thing about Kevin McKidd (Vorenus).

In a commentary, one of the episode directors talked about having to be careful about how McKidd's eyes were used, as they were very "powerful." Wait until you see Episode #12 (the 1st Season Finale)

As to why end it now: Perhaps because Octavian's (Augustus') reign was so long, producers felt the potential drama was lessened; and moving beyond Augustus' reign would mean that my beloved Vorenus and Pullo would be old men (or dead)...pity, as I'd gladly have watched Vorenus and Pullo do anything.

Additionally, I think I read somewhere that they feared production costs would become prohibitive in the long-term; the set for Rome, on the Cinecita lot in Italy, is rumoured to be the largest standing set in film production right now...

highhopes · March 2007

Loeffelholz wrote:

highhopes wrote:

The guy who plays Vorenus reminds me of Craig. They could be brothers.
So why only two seasons? they have plenty of good, psychotic Roman emperors to go. Octavian was one of the better ones.

Interesting; my sister-in-law said the same thing about Kevin McKidd (Vorenus).

In a commentary, one of the episode directors talked about having to be careful about how McKidd's eyes were used, as they were very "powerful." Wait until you see Episode #12 (the 1st Season Finale)

As to why end it now: Perhaps because Octavian's (Augustus') reign was so long, producers felt the potential drama was lessened; and moving beyond Augustus' reign would mean that my beloved Vorenus and Pullo would be old men (or dead)...pity, as I'd gladly have watched Vorenus and Pullo do anything.

That's true, but Rome was around a long time and I would think they'd be able to introduce new characters to pick up where Vorenus and Pullo left off. There is enough of a historical record that they could have some link to history, like V&P. It is an endlessly fascinating period. I wonder if, with the success of "300," the producers might not be kicking themselves. Granted that sounds more like an action thriller (I haven't seen it), and very stylized to boot. But still. People find antiquity interesting. I still plan to visit Pompeii and Herculaneum before I take the long dirt nap. And as far as the set is concerned, it is huge, with all the building three-quarter size, I believe. But it's already built, although I supposed it is taking up a lot of space.

TonyDP · March 2007

highhopes wrote:

I, Claudius was also done without Polly Walker's tits. Which didn't help it any.

Seriously, you're absolutely right. I was a big fan of I, Claudius, but I like what I've seen of Rome -- which is only about half of the first season.

I Claudius may not have had Polly Walker, but it had Sheila White as Messalina - who made Attia look like a schoolgirl by comparison.

I'm also a big I Claudius fan; saw it many many years ago as a teenager and it definitely made a lasting impression. It had one of the most incredible casts ever and I've had endless fun following the various protagonists' careers over the years.

Rome could almost be considered a loose prequel to I Claudius since it ends pretty much where Claudius begins, historically speaking. I've only seen Rome sporadically since I don't have HBO but will definitely buy the series on DVD somewhere down the road.

"Rome"

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