Bond 22 - Why not 'Live and Let Die?'

Smoke_13

I am currently reading 'Live and Let Die'. Like most of Flemings books it is different from the movie of the same name.

A lot of people are speculating that "Risicio -sp?" is possibly the next Bond film.

Why wouldn't they just continue with the whole "Modernized version of Flemings work" and redo "Live and Let Die"? Just like they did with Casino Royale. They could jazz it up a little, like the whole "construction site chase" or "stopping the plane bomber scene". -Neither were in the novel Casino Royale.

I have to say that as Casino Royale flows into Live and Let Die certain things are very apparant in Bond's character and character developement. When he agrees to help Solitaire but says to her "If this is double cross Solitaire, I will get at you and kill you if it's the last thing I do." It speaks volumes about the man he's become.

Consider the bomb in the hotel room, the escape from Mr. Big's New York lair, they could jazz up the train ride to Flodida -I'm telling you, I think it would be a great movie, and the progression of the character is a nice fit as well.

Anyway, I've said my piece -any similar thoughts or thoughts to the contrary on the subject?

Zebra3

They haven't really re-done CR though have they? The first wasn't exactly a proper Bond film was it.

Smoke_13

If you compare film to film the Casino Royales are very different. But this last movie is somewhat close to the novel.

highhopes

Smoke_13 wrote:

If you compare film to film the Casino Royales are very different. But this last movie is somewhat close to the novel.

I'm with you, Smoke. Remake 'em all, one after the other. Modernize the ones that already follow the novels (and yes, I do mean the Connery classics that I too dearly love -- the fact that we already know the plots shouldn't make any difference since we already knew their basic plots from the novels) and make those that don't follow the novels more closely. I have nothing against remaking movies, even good movies, just so long as the remakes are done well. Besides, the "classics" will still be around for those who can't do without Moore's Moonraker

Smoke_13

Thanks Double H I knew I wouldnt be alone in my thoughts of following the progression of the novels.

Your Moonraker comment gave me a good laugh. That's another reason re-doing all the novels into film would be a good thing. 'Moonraker' would be Bond #23 and a good healthy redo might actually bring some honour back to that Title.

delliott101

You know, a few years ago on the alt.fan.jamesbond group, a bunch of folks had been clamoring for faithful remakes (but on TV)... I agree, redo the films... it won't make the classic ones any less classic.

Films like FRWL, GF, TB and OHMSS don't NEED a remake, but they would be great modernized.

blueman

I dunno, no reason EON can't get some decent hacks to spin some new Bond stories...I kinda like leaving what's done as done.

Solaris

the only problem about redoing some of the films more like the books is because a lot of the plot material has been used in other bond films. for example Felix being maimed by the shark, and Bond and his girl being tied to the back of the boat, to be eaten by sharks etc.

Napoleon Han Solo

I am also reading LALD, so I'm liking this topic. I can't help but wonder if remaking the film has been the intent since the new casting of Leiter as a black man, which would very much blunt the stigma of LALD seeming like a white versus black story.

Have to say I was genuinely shocked by what happens to him in this book. Also interesting how some elements were used in LTK.

It's funny, because I almost think there might be more controversy over the title song than the actualy film if they remake LALD. Do they use the classic song? Probably not. Remake the song or haha use the GnR version? Or something completely different...the new song artist would have a challenge on his or her hands. ?:)

Hardyboy

I believe I've made this point before, but about the only elements from the novel that haven't made it to the screen are the character of Mr. Big (Kananga's pimpish Mr. Big disguise doesn't count) and Bloody Morgan's pirate hoarde being used to finance the bad guys. These two elements could be used, though Mr. Big's name would have to be changed and his goal to be the world's first "great Negro criminal" would have to be scrapped, but they'd have to be put into a mostly new story. I'd be in favor of this if they could get Michael Clarke Duncan or Forest Whitaker to play the Mr. Big character!

Napoleon Han Solo

Hardyboy wrote:

Mr. Big's name would have to be changed and his goal to be the world's first "great Negro criminal" would have to be scrapped, but they'd have to be put into a mostly new story. I'd be in favor of this if they could get Michael Clarke Duncan or Forest Whitaker to play the Mr. Big character!

Dude, as I read I am totally picturing Mr. Big as Michael Clarke Duncan, though possibly just due to his turn as the Kingpin, but I hear his voice booming out the dialog...though I must say that in the context of rapper names Mr. Big is not inconceivable as being an element of the new movie. If it is a modern movie with a Harlem setting, likely hip hop culture would be in evidence.

Moore Not Less

blueman wrote:

I dunno, no reason EON can't get some decent hacks to spin some new Bond stories...I kinda like leaving what's done as done.

Agreed. It's time to move forward, not backwards. As long as Eon is running the show I would much rather they concentrate on new Bond stories. A more appropriate time to consider remakes will be if/when Eon stops producing the films.

Sir Hillary Bray

"Remaking mudpies, 007?"

That's what a remake would be, for me. I hate the idea.

highhopes

Hardyboy wrote:

I believe I've made this point before, but about the only elements from the novel that haven't made it to the screen are the character of Mr. Big (Kananga's pimpish Mr. Big disguise doesn't count) and Bloody Morgan's pirate hoarde being used to finance the bad guys. These two elements could be used, though Mr. Big's name would have to be changed and his goal to be the world's first "great Negro criminal" would have to be scrapped, but they'd have to be put into a mostly new story. I'd be in favor of this if they could get Michael Clarke Duncan or Forest Whitaker to play the Mr. Big character!

Napoleon Han Solo wrote:

I am also reading LALD, so I'm liking this topic. I can't help but wonder if remaking the film has been the intent since the new casting of Leiter as a black man, which would very much blunt the stigma of LALD seeming like a white versus black story.

Have to say I was genuinely shocked by what happens to him in this book. Also interesting how some elements were used in LTK.

It's funny, because I almost think there might be more controversy over the title song than the actualy film if they remake LALD. Do they use the classic song? Probably not. Remake the song or haha use the GnR version? Or something completely different...the new song artist would have a challenge on his or her hands. ?:)

Remake 'em. Remake 'em all, just like any other remake. Same characters, names, plots (the novel's plot, expanded and updated). Different songs.

I don't see what the fact that a plot element has been used before has to do with anything; if they're remakes, one would expect that. I would just like to see the Fleming novels done properly -- updated and perhaps expanded in an intelligent way like CR -- and be given the justice they deserve. And I figure if they're going to remake any of the films, they might as well do all of them.

Of course, some people will hate the idea. I can think of many films I would not be interested in seeing if they were remade. But it's all right with me if they are, because I still have the originals. Same thing with the Bond films. But I would also point out that with the new direction Bond took with CR, adding previously non-existent depth of character, updated plot events and twists, and a more serious sensibility would go a long way to make the remakes feel "new."

Remake 'em. Remake 'em all -- now )

The only bad part is that by the time Bond gets to executing Scaramanga, I'll be in my 80s

Smoke_13

When I started this thread I was about 1/2 way through "Live and Let Die" the novel.

Now that I have finished reading it I have to say that there is absolutely no reason why a jazzed up version of this novel with Daniel Craig playing Bond would not easily out do the numbers set by Casino Royale -and I stress 'easily'. It's nothing like the original movie, save a couple character names.

The gun fight in the warehouse with The Robber done on the big screen would easily be a fan favorite if done properly. It was definitely a stretch of writing that I could not put down.

Hardyboy

But, Smoke, the battle in the warehouse was done on screen--specifically, it was done in Milton Krest's warehouse in LTK. I'm afraid that the novel has been so cannibalized that a movie version of it would play like a pastiche of three or four older films.

Loeffelholz

The basic plot---Bloody Morgan's treasure---can still be mined...it's what the bad guys will do with the money that can be the hook :v

I also like the bit where they break Bond's little finger If any Bond can be made to endure that, it's Danny Boy :007)

Tee Hee

Loeffelholz wrote:

I also like the bit where they break Bond's little finger

Apparently they must have found out what Bond can do with it! )

Smoke_13

Fish1941 wrote:

Now that I have finished reading it I have to say that there is absolutely no reason why a jazzed up version of this novel with Daniel Craig playing Bond would not easily out do the numbers set by Casino Royale -and I stress 'easily'. It's nothing like the original movie, save a couple character names.

And I see no reason why Craig has to do a remake of a Bond film that has already been done by EON Productions. They would just be repeating themselves. And it's unecessary. At least with CR, EON was producing that story for the first time.

Besides . . . Barbara Broccoli has made it clear that EON Productions would not be making any remakes of previous EON Bond films.

There are a lot of right and wrong opinions about Bond films and where Bond 22 should take the character. The ones who agree with me are right, yours Fish, are the latter.

I'm just kidding Fish, there is of course no right or wrong when it comes to opinions. I cant believe how diametrically opposed the members of this board appear to be regarding this topic.

However, I will still hold my stubborn ground and say Bond 22 should still be. "Live and Let Die" Give the cinematic spoon-fed world of cookie cutter super heroes a chance to see what Flemings man Bond was really like.

Loeffelholz

Tee Hee wrote:

Loeffelholz wrote:

I also like the bit where they break Bond's little finger

Apparently they must have found out what Bond can do with it! )

{[]

Napoleon Han Solo

highhopes wrote:

Hardyboy wrote:

I believe I've made this point before, but about the only elements from the novel that haven't made it to the screen are the character of Mr. Big (Kananga's pimpish Mr. Big disguise doesn't count) and Bloody Morgan's pirate hoarde being used to finance the bad guys. These two elements could be used, though Mr. Big's name would have to be changed and his goal to be the world's first "great Negro criminal" would have to be scrapped, but they'd have to be put into a mostly new story. I'd be in favor of this if they could get Michael Clarke Duncan or Forest Whitaker to play the Mr. Big character!

Napoleon Han Solo wrote:

I am also reading LALD, so I'm liking this topic. I can't help but wonder if remaking the film has been the intent since the new casting of Leiter as a black man, which would very much blunt the stigma of LALD seeming like a white versus black story.

Have to say I was genuinely shocked by what happens to him in this book. Also interesting how some elements were used in LTK.

It's funny, because I almost think there might be more controversy over the title song than the actualy film if they remake LALD. Do they use the classic song? Probably not. Remake the song or haha use the GnR version? Or something completely different...the new song artist would have a challenge on his or her hands. ?:)

Remake 'em. Remake 'em all, just like any other remake. Same characters, names, plots (the novel's plot, expanded and updated). Different songs.

I don't see what the fact that a plot element has been used before has to do with anything; if they're remakes, one would expect that. I would just like to see the Fleming novels done properly -- updated and perhaps expanded in an intelligent way like CR -- and be given the justice they deserve. And I figure if they're going to remake any of the films, they might as well do all of them.

Of course, some people will hate the idea. I can think of many films I would not be interested in seeing if they were remade. But it's all right with me if they are, because I still have the originals. Same thing with the Bond films. But I would also point out that with the new direction Bond took with CR, adding previously non-existent depth of character, updated plot events and twists, and a more serious sensibility would go a long way to make the remakes feel "new."

Remake 'em. Remake 'em all -- now )

The only bad part is that by the time Bond gets to executing Scaramanga, I'll be in my 80s

Oh I agree, even if there are similar events in other movies they would still come out vastly different just in terms of the way the character is now portrayed. I am in favour of the remake idea because they really wouldnt be remakes anyway, they would just have the same titles as the earlier ones.

A version of LALD closer to the book would be a perfect direction because the title reflects Bond's feelings at the end of CR; while ironically, this could see Bond recovering some of his humanity due to his concern for Felix.

Loeffelholz

I say Eon should take what they can from what remains 'unadapted' from Fleming's LALD---Bloody Morgan's treasure, breaking Bond's little finger, the vicious shootout in the car park, the underwater caves, etc.---incorporate Vesper's internet cameo, her ex-lover as the villain...conjure the rest out of whole cloth, give it a different title, and they're off to the races...

Myk_

-Deleted-

Harry Palmer

I think I like Myk's and Loeffelholz's idea. Not so much a remake as a reworking of the plot keeping closer to the unused material of the novel (it's hardly the first time that we have recycled plots in the series: for instance the GF, AVTAK and TWINE triad; or the parallels between YOLT, TSWLM and TND). Give it a new title (some catchy phrase from the novel) and different character names. Sounds good to me.

Barbel

Myk_ wrote:

Give the film a different name, something that relates somehow to the novel.

Change characters names slightly. Mr Big becomes something similar. Give solitaire an alluring, mystical name that relates back to cards somehow.
Myk

All very straightforward and all from Fleming himself: Mr Big becomes Buonoparte Ignace Gallia; Solitaire is Simone Latrelle; and the title is The Undertaker's Wind.

They won't do it, though.

Myk_

-Deleted-

DAWUSS

There we go, our "updated" LALD can feature Fiddy Cent, Eminem, Jay-Z, and a whole bunch of other dudes I can't name or know right now... And Bond can drink American lite beer in a bar with the Los Angeles Lakers game blaring on the TV.




And maybe we'll have Bond allied with Samuel L. Jackson for good measure


... and I'm still debating as to whether or not Halle Berry should reprise her role...

Myk_

-Deleted-

DangerMouse

If they start remaking the films for the official series, what would be the point in watching it? If anything, I think they should start using material from John Gardner's novels, provided it would be possible.

Loeffelholz

If, as is rumoured, #23 will be set (at least in part) in NYC, it seems a perfect opportunity to pluck some choice unused bits from the LALD novel: the bombing of Bond's hotel room and the broken pinky finger for starters. And some ethnic villainy---this time, as a means of financing Quantum---would actually be quite on target, IMRO B-)

There's a lot that can be done without 'remaking' LALD...I don't expect Eon to get into the 'remake' business...someday, when the property has changed hands, I'd love to see a proper, 'period' series made in order...but I doubt I'll live that long

hegottheboot

Please, no. I love the novel and film as they stand, and would absolutely lose it if LALD became the next film. Plus, if this happens it will likely set off a chain reaction in remakes.