Watches in the Movies

Queue

I was watching the Brosnan movies, and I was wondering, are the watches worn all genuine, or are some of the 'stunt' watches which have been modified for prop use replicas? I only wonder, as although I have no doubt that Omega would have no problem with Brosnan wearing their watch in general, I cannot imagine Omega giving the production several watches to get hacked about. In TND, when he activates the detonator on the stealth boat, although the LEDs in the dial light up in sequence, the second hand stays ominously fixed at the 12 position. In TWINE, the sweep of the second hand is clear when he deplys the piton, and in DAD, the sweep of the second hand is clear when he removes the HEV/detonator. But. Would these modified watches be genuine Omegas, or replicas?
This wasn't really something I considered until watching Coronation Street, and I noticed that the actor who plays Les Battersby was wearing an Omega. From the quick glances, it's hard to tell which model it is, but my guess is the 2531.80 or 2541.80. He tends to wear it with the case on the inside of the wrist, so it is mainly the bracelet and clasp which are visible, but the markings on the clasp (and the deployment buttons) are a noticeable, as is the vaguely blue color of the face/dial. Just a quick glance on the TV, and that made me wonder... Is it the actor's own watch and the costume department simply let him wear it, (or don't even realize what he is wearing) or is it a costume prop and supposed to be a replica? (as Les Battersby could not afford a genuine Omega) I believe that the actor who plays Steve McDonald wears a Rolex Submariner. This got me thinking of other examples I had seen...
In an episode of The A Team, there was a close up of the Bad Guy's watch (Gold DayDate) It was clearly a replica, because the second hand ticked. Given that the character owned a casino, he would have been easily able to afford a genuine Rolex, so this was obviously a case of suspension of disbelief for a prop.
In a flashback in an episode of Highlander, an Immortal army captain in Thailand pulled a two tone Submariner from his pocket to try and bribe a raped girl not to report his underling's misconduct. His buddy was shocked at the watch, and the captain's reply was "It came off the back of a truck" Clearly, this watch was also meant to be genuine, but it was not seen in enough detail to be certain. (I suspect, unless it belonged to one of the crew, that it was a replica)

Can anyone shed any light on this issue? Thanks in advance.

amish

To touch on the first part of your question, I am quoting an online resource located here:
http://www.chronocentric.com/omega/bond.shtml

The change from Bond wearing a Rolex appears to have been for two reasons--one stylistic, the other financial.

Foremost, for introducing Pierce Brosnan as the "new" James Bond in the 1995 film GoldenEye, the producers wanted to update the image of Bond to a more distinctly sophisticated "Euro" look. Lindy Hemming, the costume designer for the first three of the Pierce Brosnan appearances as Bond was quoted in The European Magazine ["The Names Bond, Euro Bond", July 7-13 1995] as explaining: "Sean Connery wore a Rolex, but we thought they'd become a bit ordinary now. OMEGA are more minimal--even though this one does shoot off a bomb."

She is not alone in thinking this. Rolex as a brand has changed a lot since the late 1950's when Fleming chose one for Bond to wear. At that time, Rolex was known as a uniquely well made, durable and "waterproof" watch that cost somewhat more than other watches. Now, decades later, many inexpensive watches meet the functional needs of durability, accuracy, and water-resistance that people used to turn to Rolex for. In this time, Rolex has shifted from being a technically superior, but only modestly well known watch make to being the publicly perceived "leader of the pack" in the luxury watch market.

Because of this, many Bond afficionados believe that the OMEGA Seamaster is closer in spirit to what Fleming would choose for Bond today. The literary Bond would not have chosen a watch based on luxury and flashy name recognition, but on performance. To him, any watch, car, or other implement's primary function is as a tool. Any tool is expendable. The Seamaster offers the comparable performance, style, and weight Bond would have wanted, but without attracting extra attention or making the statement a Rolex does today. With OMEGA's much heavier bracelet on the Seamaster, it would probably make an even better "knuckle duster" as the literary Bond once used his Rolex in a fight.

The other reason is that with all the product marketing deals that surrounded such modern high-profile films, the filmmakers wanted to work with a company that was interested in high-profile co-promotions--something that Rolex conservatively avoids. Reports are that the film producers chose OMEGA as their leading candidate as a replacement for the classic Bond watch, then contacted OMEGA to ask their participation in providing products and being involved in co-marketing arrangements.

Asp9mm

They are all genuine Omegas, hacked, sawn, wired and glued using original Omega parts. The reason the second hand didn't move on the TND light up prop was simply because there was no space left for the movement after the chopped it about and inserted the lighting mechanism.

Fake watches do make there way into productions, especially TV and low budget films. Omega would not allow this to happen on a film that they were sponsers of.

KMHPaladin

I'm sure Omega gave the prop designers as many watches as they needed to make the gadgets. The markup on most Swiss watches, particularly those utilizing an ebauche (premade movement like ETA), is very high and they were not losing much from a cost perspective. Plus, they were undoubtedly paying a significant sum to have their watches used in the movies as an endorsement, so why cheap out on the watches seen on-screen?

As far as the props, I'm sure they were modified appropriately. I believe The Mantis has a Seamaster modified for "The World Is Not Enough" with lights in the dial and a wire running off for the power supply in his collection.

Queue

Thanks for the replies folks, I guess thinking about it, any watches Omega sell as a result of them appearing in the movies would compensate for the costs of any given over to the production crew.
On the subject of replica or modified watches in the movies, in Minority Report, Tom Cruise wore an Omega Speedmaster Professional x33 which had been modified to have a Bvlgari logo on it
I still find it amusing that Les Battersby wears the same watch as James Bond :biggrin:

KMHPaladin

Queue wrote:

Thanks for the replies folks, I guess thinking about it, any watches Omega sell as a result of them appearing in the movies would compensate for the costs of any given over to the production crew.

More than compensates them. Think about it, once you have the tooling set up to mass produce the watch, you are cranking them out at a material cost of what, $50 or $100 apiece? Who cares.

Hell, they sold me. I'm the proud wearer of a 2254.50 SMP.

Bill Tanner

Hello again Kevin, long time no see! Good to have you back.

Back on topic... I'm not sure about the comments given in the Hemming interview above about updating Brosnan's Bond and giving him a new 'Euro Look':

The change from Bond wearing a Rolex appears to have been for two reasons--one stylistic, the other financial.

Foremost, for introducing Pierce Brosnan as the "new" James Bond in the 1995 film GoldenEye, the producers wanted to update the image of Bond to a more distinctly sophisticated "Euro" look. Lindy Hemming, the costume designer for the first three of the Pierce Brosnan appearances as Bond was quoted in The European Magazine ["The Names Bond, Euro Bond", July 7-13 1995] as explaining: "Sean Connery wore a Rolex, but we thought they'd become a bit ordinary now. OMEGA are more minimal--even though this one does shoot off a bomb."

Bond's use of a German car and Italian suits didn't really make him appear European to me; if anything, Brosnan's Bond appears to go in the opposite direction, with a reinforcement of everything that was British and a conscious effort to get back to the look of the early film. Though BMW had a deal to supply the cars, the production team went out and bought three Aston Martins lest we forget 007's British roots (with more than a whiff of the aristocracy). We have Italian suits but the cut is very English and their use is much more widespread, accessories such as pocket handkerchiefs, cravats, brogues (wingtips), and probably numerous other examples.

Goldeneye's endorsement of the Brioni and Omega brands seems to have been entirely a pragmatic and financial decision - the film was made on a limited budget and neither Rolex or Savile Row were particularly interested in product placement and/or were unwilling to supply their goods in sufficient numbers for the film makers needs (15 - 20 examples of each suit and perhaps 20 watches). Omega, Brioni and BMW were more than ready to step in with help in the form of dollars or free examples of their products.

Just to comment specifically on the original topic: EON have no need to use pre-existing replicas when the original manufacturers are ready and willing to provide plenty of original product to play around with, but there have often been occasions where they have had to manufacture their own replicas. The Goldeneye watch was one example where the faceplate and internals were specially made. I believe the Rolex used in LALD had a much deeper case in order to house all the rotating bezel gubbins. Many of the shots of the BMW Z8 in TWINE feature a fibreglass replica based on a Cobra kit - purely because BMW weren't able to supply a suitable car in time, and the Living Daylights Aston featured a fibreglass bodyshell in the jump shots because it was cheaper and easier to catapult a replica.

So yes, they use replicas, but not the kind you're referring to.

Higgins

KMHPaladin wrote:

Queue wrote:

Thanks for the replies folks, I guess thinking about it, any watches Omega sell as a result of them appearing in the movies would compensate for the costs of any given over to the production crew.

More than compensates them. Think about it, once you have the tooling set up to mass produce the watch, you are cranking them out at a material cost of what, $50 or $100 apiece? Who cares.

Hell, they sold me. I'm the proud wearer of a 2254.50 SMP.

If you are judging a watch only by its material costs, you may also prefer to evaluate your car by the tonnage of steel or your shirt by the price of some ounces of cotton.

Greetings

Markus

ady007

i heard through a freind that a prop company hes heard of might be making some replicas of the prop seamasters (detonator versions light up versions) used by brosnan in some of the bond movies. i want some for my collection of watches not sure that they will work though...more of a show piece.

S_P_E_C_T_R_E

ady007 wrote:

i heard through a freind that a prop company hes heard of might be making some replicas of the prop seamasters (detonator versions light up versions) used by brosnan in some of the bond movies. i want some for my collection of watches not sure that they will work though...more of a show piece.

sounds good. keep us posted PLEASE

ToshTogo

Rolex watches are so overrated and boring. The style of those watches are starting to look a bit tired . When i see someone wearing a Rolex it says to me " im rich, but i dont have any taste" Give me an old Heuer or Omega Speedmaster anyday

Higgins

..... uh, are we in AJBs cliche section {:)


You know, when it comes to watches, I have gone thru several stages.
At first, my only goal has been to get a Rolex, then I thought, that they got out of fashion, overpriced and, that there are better alternatives. After owning mostly all of them, I realized, that they still do outstanding quality and don't feel the need to follow every mainstream. So, I swopped back and apologized for my ignorance.

So, your statement sounds to me a bit like:I know, he thinks, that "I'm rich, but I dont have any taste"
But I know better

ToshTogo

Dont get me wrong, Rolex is a helluva wellbuilt watch, but its a tired cliche' on ppls arms now

Higgins

.... if you think so, that's fine with me.

KMHPaladin

Bondtoys wrote:

If you are judging a watch only by its material costs, you may also prefer to evaluate your car by the tonnage of steel or your shirt by the price of some ounces of cotton.

Perhaps you should re-read my post. As I said, "once you have the tooling set up to mass produce the watch". As in, your sunk costs for R&D and tooling are already made regardless of the number of pieces produced and you are producing the watches at a fixed - material - cost. Like anything mass-produced, the initial expense is high, but once you are past that, the repeated cost is not.

Of course if we want to talk economics, we can go into the opportunity cost to Omega of giving a watch to the Bond propmakers rather than selling it at retail price (or, to be accurate, about MSRP, since nobody pays it), but let's not get semantic.

Higgins

Sorry, but I don't get your point.

Yes, you find a bunch of high-end machines in watch companies, that do (raw)components in larger quantities.
If you ever have the chance to visit a company, that produces high-end mechanical watches, you will see, that there are many watchmakers and other experts, who are working on the products.
So, your theory of a mass-production to material prices after an expensive R&D has nothing to do with the reality.
And I just wanted to throw in, that we all admire high-end products, regardless of the pure material input.

But I am sure, that a part of a multi-million $ contract with Omega and EON included support with a reasonable amount of watches and components. And I am sure, that all the Omega staff had no problem with the motivation to support the EON people with everything, they needed, because this has been fun.

ady007

S_P_E_C_T_R_E wrote:

ady007 wrote:

i heard through a freind that a prop company hes heard of might be making some replicas of the prop seamasters (detonator versions light up versions) used by brosnan in some of the bond movies. i want some for my collection of watches not sure that they will work though...more of a show piece.

sounds good. keep us posted PLEASE

just fired off an email....will keep you posted on any news.

ady007

does anyone have clear pictures of the modifided omegas? screen shots arent that clear!

Higgins

It's my pleasure:

Official Omega DAD dummy watch for Jewellers windows

ady007

line doesnt work....but no problem, after a bit of searching i found what i need!!!


cheers
will keep you posted

Higgins

Sorry, should work now:

Official Omega DAD dummy watch for Jewellers windows

Greetings

Markus

ady007

excellent!! very good helpfully photos!