1) From Russia With Love [50]-
2) Goldfinger [10]+
3) Thunderball [5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]
Tee HeeCBT Headquarters: Chicago, ILPosts: 917MI6 Agent
1) From Russia With Love 50 +1 = [51]
2) Goldfinger [10]
3) Thunderball 5 -1 = [4]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]
"My acting range? Left eyebrow raised, right eyebrow raised..."
-Roger Moore
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
edited April 2007
PKK is going to soil his panties if he returns and finds TB gone. That said, one of those two movies needs to go soon (as much as I, lover of both, hate to say it).
1) From Russia With Love [51]
2) Goldfinger [10]
3) Thunderball [4]+1= [5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]-1= [45]
To clarify my previous comment: I remarked that much as I love OHMSS, I missed Connery's presence. By that I mean star quality, charisma, je ne sais quoi, it, that indefinable something which we all understand but find difficult to put into words.
I watched OHMSS at the cinema in 1969. I had already read the book and was watching with all my 11-year old attention on how faithfully it reflected its origins (as we all know, it's pretty damn close) after YOLT had lurched off into sci-fi. Naturally I knew that Connery had refused to do the film and been replaced with "some Australian model". At that point in time, this was unavoidable news (and in the year Armstrong & Aldrin walked on the moon, yet) even for kids.
It didn't worry me in the slightest. The movie worked then and works now and Lazenby was not a problem. With damn near 40 years of hindsight, it's MHO that the success of this film is due to three people:
1) Ian Fleming. While Richard Maibaum's screenplay has changed a few details (the chronology at the start; Blofeld's kidnapping of Tracy; the extended car chase), it's Fleming's story, his characters, his plot.
2) Peter Hunt. Finally permitted to direct a Bond film, Hunt comes through with shining colours handling both the action scenes (he and John Glen make a perfect team) and the romance to superb effect.
3) Last but not least....John Barry. The quintessential Bond composer pulls out all the stops to create the crowning achievement of a Bond career that's already unparalleled. "We Have All the Time In The World" needs no comment from me or anyone else; the main theme, so redolent of the films atmosphere and so attuned to the skiing sequences; melodies such as "Who Will Buy My Yesterdays?" thrown away and "The More Things Change" not even used.
It's my earnest hope that my sincere admiration for this film comes through. BUT I saw this as a child who'd already seen the first five Bonds and absorbed what would would be a lifetime's obsession. After DN, FRWL, GF, TB, and YOLT (and reading the novels) my conceptions of the Bond character were centred around the image of the one man who seemed to embody 007 so stylishly and effortlessly- and he wasn't there.
In voting for the ultimate 007 film, therefore, I cannot in all sincerity take points from films I know as well as my own heartbeat and have watched more times than I can recall (I bought them on Beta, VHS, DVD, Special, Ultimate...). The wind is blowing against GF and TB; this is sad but understandable given history and the amount of times people have watched these films. It's odd to have to defend these two films on a James Bond fan site- but let me finish with a paraphrase from our founder:
Goldfinger and Thunderball are the reason I am here; they are the reason you are here; they are the reason here exists.
These films ensured the Bond legacy and its continuing success today. They established the image of James Bond 007 for all time.
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
edited April 2007
Well, as someone who wasn't alive until the mid-70s I can't really pass judgment on your assessment there. It might very well be that the series (and this forum lol) owes its continued existence to the success of GF and TB-- however there is one thing about OHMSS that is relevant here that gets precious little attention. Starting with GF and culminating with YOLT the Bond movie producers went quite over the top and shifted the focus of the films even more from character to big budget spectacle. By the time OHMSS was made they evidently decided to direct the series back to its roots. One thing that stands out to me more every time I watch this film is how much it is apparent that everyone involved with it put their heart and soul into making this the "epic" Bond film. This film broke all the standard "Hollywood" success rules-- it broke the then just-established formula to smithereens, it was the first one to really address James Bond the man (an odd thing in a series that had come to be associated with spectacles, exotic locales, superhuman villains and other extravagances), it was the first to give Bond a chance to fall in love, and so on. Looking back at the way the movie was made it's almost as if some higher power intervened, realigned the planets, and allowed the fireworks and spectacles to be put on hold for one movie so that the filmmakers could make a movie from their heart, so they could tell a story without sacrificing its integrity on the altar of crazy gadgets, whimsical plotlines and futuristic sets-- and I think it is this quality that gives OHMSS its true pulse, that quality which, to me, makes it stand out more and more as the best film of the series with each viewing and it is probably also the reason it is considered the crown jewel by so many Fleming enthusiasts. GF and TB may have embedded Bond firmly in the collective popular consciousness, but OHMSS captured perfectly the soul of Bond-- and it hasn't been topped since. To paraphrase a tribute once given to a great historical personage: To a traveler standing near a mountain range many eminences seem to have approximately the same altitude; it is difficult to disengage Everest from its lofty neighbors. But as the range recedes in the distance, the highest peak lifts more and more above its fellows, until it alone fills the horizon. So it has been with OHMSS.
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
1) From Russia With Love [51]
2) Goldfinger 9 + 1 = [10]
3) Thunderball 5 - 1 = [4]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
Laz, I think your last post, re: OHMSS was spot-on. Well said {[]
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
1) From Russia With Love (53]
2) Goldfinger [10]+1= 11
3) Thunderball [2]-1= 1
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
I consider OHMSS to be the lesser of these four films, but I'm voting against TB, because as much as I love TB (IMO it was the third greatest Bond film of all time), I desperately want GF to finish in the top 3 and, sadly, the only way to ensure that is for TB to be eliminated. I therefore deduct a point from TB with a heavy heart and hope that the person who then eliminates it does so with mercy, and not with malice. -{
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I therefore deduct a point from TB with a heavy heart and hope that the person who then eliminates it does so with mercy, and not with malice. -{
It might not happen, as GF itself was down to [1] at one point-- at a time when TB had like 19 or something, and look where we are today. That being said if nothing changes in the next 24 minutes, I will be eliminating it. Not with any malice, though I do believe that either it or GF should be the next film to go (I constantly waffle back on forth on which of those two I like more, to the degree that I have almost entirely avoided weighing in on the battle that has taken place between them).
Edit: I spoke too soon. Mr. Smythe and PKK will not be pleased when they return. {:) (And I'm sure jetset will sprout a full-on robot chubby when he does. )
Current standings:
1) From Russia With Love [53]
2) Goldfinger [11]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]
Eliminated
04)Thunderball
05)Casino Royale
06)The Living Daylights
07)The Spy Who Loved Me
08)Dr. No
09)You Only Live Twice
10)Goldeneye
11)The World is Not Enough
12)Live and Let Die
13)For Your Eyes Only
14)Octopussy
15)Diamonds are Forever
16)Moonraker
17)Tomorrow Never Dies
18)The Man With the Golden Gun
19)License to Kill
20)Never Say Never Again
21)Die Another Day
22)A View to a Kill
LazenbyThe upper reaches of the AmazoPosts: 606MI6 Agent
1) From Russia With Love [53]
2) Goldfinger [10]-
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [47]+
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Wow, both laz's and barbel's posts are classics, IMO. Very well stated, kudos to you both. {[] {[]
Thanks for that, blue. I very much enjoyed Lazenby's riposte as well; his arguments are well thought out and I happen to agree with the sentiments. This sort of debate (as you and I have happily discussed previously ) is something to get ones teeth into, rather than the "Yes you did, no I didn't" stuff which crops up from time to time.
So, GF is next for elimination then? Let's not expect it to die- let's expect us to talk.
We're down to the final three "Best Of Bond" entries, any of which could be finally the champion without reservations. All close enough to their literary originals for Flemingists to feel content; all from the 60s, the era when 007 ruled; all with the classic Bond team on board (Richard Maibaum, John Barry, Peter Hunt, Cubby & Harry...). My argument pro-GF is already in this forum, but really it all boils down to ones own thoughts and tastes now.
Comments
2) Goldfinger [10]-
3) Thunderball[5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]+
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
2) Goldfinger [9] -1
3) Thunderball [5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46] +1
2) Goldfinger [10]+
3) Thunderball [5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]
2) Goldfinger [10]
3) Thunderball 5 -1 = [4]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]
-Roger Moore
2) Goldfinger [10]
3) Thunderball [4]+1= [5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]-1= [45]
To clarify my previous comment: I remarked that much as I love OHMSS, I missed Connery's presence. By that I mean star quality, charisma, je ne sais quoi, it, that indefinable something which we all understand but find difficult to put into words.
I watched OHMSS at the cinema in 1969. I had already read the book and was watching with all my 11-year old attention on how faithfully it reflected its origins (as we all know, it's pretty damn close) after YOLT had lurched off into sci-fi. Naturally I knew that Connery had refused to do the film and been replaced with "some Australian model". At that point in time, this was unavoidable news (and in the year Armstrong & Aldrin walked on the moon, yet) even for kids.
It didn't worry me in the slightest. The movie worked then and works now and Lazenby was not a problem. With damn near 40 years of hindsight, it's MHO that the success of this film is due to three people:
1) Ian Fleming. While Richard Maibaum's screenplay has changed a few details (the chronology at the start; Blofeld's kidnapping of Tracy; the extended car chase), it's Fleming's story, his characters, his plot.
2) Peter Hunt. Finally permitted to direct a Bond film, Hunt comes through with shining colours handling both the action scenes (he and John Glen make a perfect team) and the romance to superb effect.
3) Last but not least....John Barry. The quintessential Bond composer pulls out all the stops to create the crowning achievement of a Bond career that's already unparalleled. "We Have All the Time In The World" needs no comment from me or anyone else; the main theme, so redolent of the films atmosphere and so attuned to the skiing sequences; melodies such as "Who Will Buy My Yesterdays?" thrown away and "The More Things Change" not even used.
It's my earnest hope that my sincere admiration for this film comes through. BUT I saw this as a child who'd already seen the first five Bonds and absorbed what would would be a lifetime's obsession. After DN, FRWL, GF, TB, and YOLT (and reading the novels) my conceptions of the Bond character were centred around the image of the one man who seemed to embody 007 so stylishly and effortlessly- and he wasn't there.
In voting for the ultimate 007 film, therefore, I cannot in all sincerity take points from films I know as well as my own heartbeat and have watched more times than I can recall (I bought them on Beta, VHS, DVD, Special, Ultimate...). The wind is blowing against GF and TB; this is sad but understandable given history and the amount of times people have watched these films. It's odd to have to defend these two films on a James Bond fan site- but let me finish with a paraphrase from our founder:
Goldfinger and Thunderball are the reason I am here; they are the reason you are here; they are the reason here exists.
These films ensured the Bond legacy and its continuing success today. They established the image of James Bond 007 for all time.
2) Goldfinger [10] + [11]
3) Thunderball [5] -1 = [4]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
2) Goldfinger [11]
3) Thunderball [4] -1 = [3]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45] +1 [46]
2) Goldfinger [11]-1 = [10]
3) Thunderball [3]+1 = [4]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
2) Goldfinger -1 = [9]
3) Thunderball +1 = [5]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
2) Goldfinger 9 + 1 = [10]
3) Thunderball 5 - 1 = [4]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
Laz, I think your last post, re: OHMSS was spot-on. Well said {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
2) Goldfinger [10]
3) Thunderball [4]-1 (3)
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
2) Goldfinger [10]
3) Thunderball [3] - [1] = [2]
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
2) Goldfinger [10]+1= 11
3) Thunderball [2]-1= 1
4) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45]
I consider OHMSS to be the lesser of these four films, but I'm voting against TB, because as much as I love TB (IMO it was the third greatest Bond film of all time), I desperately want GF to finish in the top 3 and, sadly, the only way to ensure that is for TB to be eliminated.
Dalton - the weak and weepy Bond!
It might not happen, as GF itself was down to [1] at one point-- at a time when TB had like 19 or something, and look where we are today. That being said if nothing changes in the next 24 minutes, I will be eliminating it. Not with any malice, though I do believe that either it or GF should be the next film to go (I constantly waffle back on forth on which of those two I like more, to the degree that I have almost entirely avoided weighing in on the battle that has taken place between them).
Edit: I spoke too soon. Mr. Smythe and PKK will not be pleased when they return. {:) (And I'm sure jetset will sprout a full-on robot chubby when he does.
Current standings:
1) From Russia With Love [53]
2) Goldfinger [11]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]
Eliminated
04)Thunderball
05)Casino Royale
06)The Living Daylights
07)The Spy Who Loved Me
08)Dr. No
09)You Only Live Twice
10)Goldeneye
11)The World is Not Enough
12)Live and Let Die
13)For Your Eyes Only
14)Octopussy
15)Diamonds are Forever
16)Moonraker
17)Tomorrow Never Dies
18)The Man With the Golden Gun
19)License to Kill
20)Never Say Never Again
21)Die Another Day
22)A View to a Kill
2) Goldfinger [10]-
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [47]+
2) Goldfinger [9]-
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [47]
2) Goldfinger [9]+1= [10
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [47]-1= [46]
Sweet Justice!
1) From Russia With Love [54]
2) Goldfinger 10 +1 = [11]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 46 -1 = [45]
-Roger Moore
2) Goldfinger [11]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [45] +1 = [46]
What in God's name is a robot chubby? No, never mind; I don't want to know...
Has to be From Russia With Love now, I'm afraid. Good though it is, it just doesn't entertain me as effortlessly as Goldfinger. So off it goes...
@merseytart
2) Goldfinger [11]+1= [12]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]-1= [45]
C'est la vie.
2) Goldfinger [12]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46]+
Seeing as I was the one who saved GF when it was down to one point
Thanks for that, blue. I very much enjoyed Lazenby's riposte as well; his arguments are well thought out and I happen to agree with the sentiments. This sort of debate (as you and I have happily discussed previously
So, GF is next for elimination then? Let's not expect it to die- let's expect us to talk.
We're down to the final three "Best Of Bond" entries, any of which could be finally the champion without reservations. All close enough to their literary originals for Flemingists to feel content; all from the 60s, the era when 007 ruled; all with the classic Bond team on board (Richard Maibaum, John Barry, Peter Hunt, Cubby & Harry...). My argument pro-GF is already in this forum, but really it all boils down to ones own thoughts and tastes now.
2) Goldfinger [12] - 1 = [13]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [46] + 1 = [47]
GF should be 11.
Revised totals:
1) From Russia With Love [52]
2) Goldfinger [11]
3) On Her Majesty's Secret Service [47]