When Bond dosn't kill the villains

3rbrown

These only ones I can think of

From Russia With Love
Thunderball
For Your Eyes Only
Casino Royale

I am not including YOLT, OHMSS and DAF

Barbel

3rbrown wrote:

These only ones I can think of

From Russia With Love
Thunderball
For Your Eyes Only
Casino Royale

I am not including YOLT, OHMSS and DAF

The Living Daylights (taken away by his old boss's men)

3rbrown

Barbel wrote:

3rbrown wrote:

These only ones I can think of

From Russia With Love
Thunderball
For Your Eyes Only
Casino Royale

I am not including YOLT, OHMSS and DAF

The Living Daylights (taken away by his old boss's men)

I mean the main villains wasn't Whitaker the main one and Bond crushed he with a stacue of Wellinton just before Koskov was arested.

Barbel

3rbrown wrote:

I mean the main villian wasn't Whitaker the main one and Bond crushed he with a stacue of Wellinton just before Koskov was arested.

The two characters share the villain role; I would argue that Koskov is the more significant of the two since he has a personal relationship with Bond.

3rbrown

Fish1941 wrote:

Barbel wrote:

3rbrown wrote:

I mean the main villian wasn't Whitaker the main one and Bond crushed he with a stacue of Wellinton just before Koskov was arested.

The two characters share the villain role; I would argue that Koskov is the more significant of the two since he has a personal relationship with Bond.

Yey I supose you are right I did consider The Living Daylights but I thought that Whitaker was the boss because he orders Koskov and Necros to kill Bond.

Moore Not Less

Surely, General Orlov and Prince Kamal Khan share the main villain role in Octopussy? And since Orlov has more power, doesn't that make him the more significant of the two?

Barbel

Moore Not Less wrote:

Surely, General Orlov and Prince Kamal Khan share the main villain role in Octopussy? And since Orlov has more power, doesn't that make him the more significant of the two?

IMHO Kamal qualifies as the main villain of OP for similar reasons to Koskov in TLD.

(1) They have a relationship of sorts. Bond bests him in the auction room, and later at backgammon. These are traditional Bond/villain opening round gambits, structurally similar to the cards and golf in GF. This creates a tension between the two men, with Kamal seeking to "even the score". (In TLD this situation is reversed somewhat, with Koskov getting one over on 007 through his bogus defection/rescue; a tension is created between the two, but here Bond is the one trying to even the score.)
None of this exists with Orlov, who meets Bond only briefly.

(2) There is a situation over a woman. It is made clear that Kamal has been lusting after Octopussy for years (he's not the only one, btw ) with no success whatsoever- "A no from you has little chance of becoming a yes". Bond breezes in and the two of them are busy making little Octopussies in no time at all. Kamal is red hot with jealousy.
Again, none of this with Orlov. (And in TLD, Bond actively steals Kara from Koskov. Not that Koskov particularly minds, of course, but there is a little triangle being played out.)

(3) Kamal's death occurs at the end of the film; there's no plot left after he's gone. Orlov's shooting occurs approx. two thirds of the way through, with plenty of plot left to be resolved.

Moore Not Less

Very well put, Barbel. I can't really disagree with any of your points. But General Orlov is still extremely significant. After all, isn't he really the mastermind behind the plot to detonate the nuclear bomb leading to a Russian Invasion of Western Europe? While Prince Kamal Khan is essential to the plot I would have thought that he's far more interested in making money than making war.

Barbel

All that you say may be true, Kronsteen- er, MNL! I agree that Orlov is a significant figure (more so than his counterpart in GE) and essential to the plot but this brings up the point of OP's complicated storyline: Kamal has nothing to gain from war in Western Europe, he's simply a crook out for money (to agree with you again). Orlov is a madman who wants to show off the size of his, er, war machine. The two ends are clearly defined but the methodology is left unclear- perhaps a deliberate move by the writers, avoiding plot holes by skimming over the details?

Moore Not Less

Barbel wrote:

All that you say may be true, Kronsteen- er, MNL!

All that I say is true.

I've been called quite a few things in my time, Kronsteen is definitely original. Checkmate, I believe.

Chum

3rbrown wrote:

These only ones I can think of

From Russia With Love
Thunderball
For Your Eyes Only
Casino Royale

I am not including YOLT, OHMSS and DAF

Goldfinger killed himself by pulling the trigger during the fight!