Is Le Chiffre in Love with Bond?

IanT007

Sorry if this has been brought up elsewhere, but it occurred to me that when you watch Casino Royale you can almost detect a sense that Le Chiffre fancies James Bond. Look again at the lingering handshake when they meet in the salon privee, how he notices instantly that Bond has changed his shirt. Don't forget how he admires Bond's naked body and takes great pleasure in attacking his genetalia. (Yes I know this is in the book).

Now, don't think I'm trolling, because I'm not. It was just something that occurred to me and I wondered if anyone else noticed it. I think it makes the Le Chiffre character a bit more three dimensional.

Barbel

Mads Mikkelsen was quoted some months ago now as saying that this element was there if one looked for it.
In the novel Le Chiffre is described as heterosexual but "flagellant", ie getting his, er, kicks from inflicting pain with for example a whip (carpet beater, knotted rope...). This is subsequently demonstrated, of course, on 007.

Neville James

Never noticed.
Guess I don't have a 'Gaydar'...

Pendragon

now that you mention it...there is a bit of "hey, he's not bad looking" on Le Chiffre's part...hmm *is going to watch the movie again with this in mind*

~Pen -{

Gassy Man

I think it could be read in. LeChiffre's girlfriend even had a bit of a masculine quality to her (I kept thinking drag queen when I saw her). But the script has more to suggest LeChiffre simply wishes to destroy Bond, the way he would any enemy he confronts. As in "Goldfinger," there's a bit of subtext that LeChiffre lacks what it takes to be a man like Bond, and that drives his feelings toward Bond -- an attraction to what Bond represents as opposed to Bond himself. The handshake bit seemed more like LeChiffre trying to establish dominance over Bond than a flirtatious gesture.

John Drake

Does LeChiffe not say something like 'I see you look after your body?'

Barbel

John Drake wrote:

Does LeChiffe not say something like 'I see you look after your body?'

Yes, with a "Wow" first...

Loeffelholz

Gassy Man wrote:

I think it could be read in. LeChiffre's girlfriend even had a bit of a masculine quality to her (I kept thinking drag queen when I saw her).

I agree; perhaps it was her flat chest and slightly hooked nose; she did nothing for me whatsoever (give me Eva Green any day)...but she was an effective henchwoman, as she was suitably dangerous in her silent but watchful style.

As for LeChiffre fancying Bond...eh. Perhaps, perhaps not. As Mikkelson said, it can certainly be 'read into' it if one wishes. Without any supporting evidence, other than a 'look' or a lingering handshake; one can equally assert that it's no more than the villain of the piece sizing up the hero.

Napoleon Plural

I think some of the homo erotic aspects of the torture scene were trimmed...

A bit off topic, but having watched Toby Jones' excellent performance as Capote in Infamous (opp also excellent Daniel Craig) I would have preferred him as Le Chiffre. He had a bit more wiliness about him. Mads seemed a bit nondescript for me.

John Drake

I liked Mads performance. I think LeChiffre was meant to be a low-key villain and Mads delivers. He's definitely an improvement on some of the guys we had during the Brosnan era. Pryce, and the awful Robert Carlyle. I would however like to see Bond up against a tougher opponent next time.

IanT007

It wouldn't surprise me if Le Chiffre's girl appears in Bond 22. No one actually saw her die did they.

Anyway, I'm not sure whether or not she was running the show to a certain extent. Le Chiffre seems to give her some deferential glances and it sometimes seemed to me that he was only where he was due to the grace of her.

Or am I reading things into this that don't exist?

Jermaine76

I never thought Le Chiffre was in love with him. I felt it was a common respect from one man to another. I might make a comment that a man is a nice looking dude, but I'm not in love with him. Call it giving another man his props. So when Le Chiffre tells Bond about his body, he's just giving Bond his props.

Dan Same

Gassy Man wrote:

I think it could be read in. LeChiffre's girlfriend even had a bit of a masculine quality to her (I kept thinking drag queen when I saw her).

I didn't see that at all. I thought she was extremely feminine. I would argue that while one of the women was quite masculine looking, it was actually Green, who sometimes reminded me of a man.

I don't think that Le Chiffre was in love with Bond, although it could be read that way. I think that Le Chiffre simply saw Bond as a huge threat and, as mentioned previously, the handshake was to establish dominance. The 'you look after your body' line is interesting, but I would imagine that people from some countries are more comfortable about complimenting other guys, without being afraid of being referred to as gay. Personally, I don't think that Le Chiffre was gay, although it would certianly make for an interesting subtext if he were.

John Drake

Dan Same wrote:

[ I would argue that while one of the women was quite masculine looking, it was actually Green, who sometimes reminded me of a man.

Any part of her in particular? )

IanT007

Having watched her in The Dreamers I can only conclude that Eva Green is all woman.

I wish she was mine!

Nightshooter

I think Le Chiffre's girlfriend could have been quite pretty, and is, if they outfitted her correctly, but they were going for dangerous, not gorgeous. Instead, they gave her a shorter haircut and emphasized the fact that she was COMPLETELY flat. They basically played up her flaws to make her seem more masculine/evil.

Dan Same

John Drake wrote:

Dan Same wrote:

[ I would argue that while one of the women was quite masculine looking, it was actually Green, who sometimes reminded me of a man.

Any part of her in particular? )

Well, JFF would be a little more descriptive than me, but I feel that she looked a little masculine whilst on the train and when she was putting on makeup. Yes, she wasn't exactly wearing a bikini, but she never stuck me as good-looking as she often struck me as a bit on the mannish side. I'm actually quite stunned that people thought that Le Chiffre's girlfriend was masculine looking as my only complaint about her is that she was underused.

Scribe74

Neville James wrote:

Never noticed.
Guess I don't have a 'Gaydar'...

My "Gaydar," too, must be on the fritz!

lavabubble

Scribe74 wrote:

Neville James wrote:

Never noticed.
Guess I don't have a 'Gaydar'...

My "Gaydar," too, must be on the fritz!

I have gaydar and didn't think that LC was in love with Bond at all. In fact, I think any potential homoeroticism was totally flattened in the film.

I took the comment regarding JB having looked after his body to be qualified by the line after about it being a waste. His body is impressive by anyone standards but LC's only intention was to damage it, not covet it.

I think LC's too busy loving money and risk to fit a JB crush into his busy schedule , its more of a fledgling grudging respect IMHO.

Loeffelholz

Yes...the swell of Ms. Green's bosom in the dress she wore in the casino was decidedly 'macho' )

Seriously...if she can be considered 'mannish' in the bathroom scene---when her splendid secondary sexual characteristics were barely restrained by (and clearly discernible beneath) the silk gown she was wearing...and her natural beauty is unconcealed by excessive makeup---then I now have a proper context into which I shall place virtually all criticism of Bond #21

I could buy 'AVTAK equals Classic Bond' before I could ever accept that Eva Green is masculine... ?:)

However, perhaps the greatest charm of these boards is the conviction with which views are held. That, I salute {[]

lavabubble

I think Eva Green has such a natural unspoilt beauty in the bathroom scene before the poker game begins and its so very spoilt by all the heavy makeup.

IMHO with out all the facepaint she was by far the best looking woman in the film.

Nightshooter

The best looking woman in the film? Well, one of them. For me, the others are Alessandra Ambrosio (the tennis girl cameo) and the hotel clerk (the blonde).

Pendragon

I watched the entire movie over again with this Gay Le Chiffre thing in mind, and I must say...he really does come across as at least bi...try it! you'll get a whole diff. take on the character...I did!

~Pen -{

superado

As mentioned earlier in the thread...whether or not the homoeroticism shows, Mikkelsen has stated on record that he intentionally included it in his portrayal, if ever so subtly. Therefore, the homoeroticism is indeed there though recognizing it is subjective to the viewer.

Hardyboy

I just finished re-watching the film, and, for the most part, I don't think Le Chiffre comes across as gay. Until the torture sequence he seems more like the asexual, completely self-centered type of villain Fleming was so fond of--remember, he doesn't raise a word in protest when Valenka nearly gets her arm sliced off, no doubt thinking, "Better her than me!" As for the casino scenes, Le Chiffre seems to be staking out Bond, just like a hawk looking to pounce on a mouse.

Once we get to the torture scene, though, all bets are off. As everyone else has pointed out, Le Chiffre isn't shy about admitting how much he admires Bond's body, and the bits where he gets up and close and personal with Bond--caressing his face, whispering in his ear--are a little suggestive. But the coup de grace comes when Le Chiffre casually flips the rope over Bond's shoulder, looking for all the world like John Holmes giving his most famous feature an airing-out.

Loeffelholz

Hardyboy wrote:

...But the coup de grace comes when Le Chiffre casually flips the rope over Bond's shoulder, looking for all the world like John Holmes giving his most famous feature an airing-out.

Wow. Disturbing, that )

Well said {[]

Pendragon

indeed. well said, Hardyboy!

~Pen -{

taity

I think if you want it to be there, it'll be there. However, that doesnt mean that the powers that be meant for it to be there - such things as the handshake, the notice about the shirt.