As I posted on p. 163, Oddjob's 220S is NE 3184 - it is clearly legible after the Aston Martin crashes. But I am not sure if the plates are the same at the gate.
I got it from when the DB5 "breaks formation" at the gate, so to speak. You can briefly see the 220S's license plate as the henchmen jump out of the way. You CANNOT see it due to miniscule font while driving through the factory. But the car DOES end up with NE-3184 license plates, since I did finally watch the entire chase to the end.
I was under the impression that the cars actually used by EON were 180D's? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (note that I added no suffix to the 190) and there may have been 190's, but I thought the real cars used for that chase scene were 180D's (which, if you think of it from a propmaster's standpoint, makes perfect sense...which is cheaper, an old 180D taxi or a used 180?).
I don't see the black 220S, and I also don't see anything other than a 180 going down the cliff.
The black 220S is the car Oddjob gets out of. Looking back on it (thank you for making me replay the film YET AGAIN, haha!), there was definitely a black 220S, but it appears much more briefly than I'd thought. It appears when Oddjob gets out (and then morphs into some variant of 180) as well as very briefly when the guy is firing an MP-40. Did the 180 have chrome around the base of the windows and the bases of the pillars AND chrome over the rear fenders, as well? I don't think so. Whatever car Oddjob got out of and whatever car the guy firing the MP-40 in a zoom shot was riding around in have this, yet the other 180's/180D's and what I believe is a 190 do not.
The car on fire (not the one that goes down the cliff, which is a 180 or 180D, the one that hits the side of the building while already on fire) also has chrome on the base of the pillars and base of the windows. However, it has the vents and lacks chrome trim over the fenders. Wouldn't that be a 190?
But there must be a third black 180 with foglights somewhere (this is the one which passes the still standing NE 9641).
It could even have been the black 220S (none of the 180's or 180D's they used had visible fog lights) simply for the safety of the stunt driver. Remember, we never actually see that car except enveloped in smoke (except in the closeup of the obvious 180 or 180D, which is of course a different car).
Well, this scene was shot partly in Switzerland and partly in the studio ... which also explains the change of number plates on NE 9641. There are Neuchatel and Swiss crests on the front plate - but not in every shot. Swiss plates only have the crests on the rear so the scenes where they are missing are correct and probably shot in Switzerland rather than England. Must still be fake plates as the real front plates are much smaller than shown in the film.
Too bad we don't know which scenes were shot where...it might help in ID'ing some of the cars used/figuring out how many were used.
One interesting point is right at the start, 'NE 9641' appears to have a string or elastic band around the front plate to hold it in place (above and below the crest, arrowed) which I think means the plates were 'mock-ups' to place over the non-Swiss originals:
Click to enlarge
I'm pretty sure the whole chase was filmed at Pinewood, UK, so the 'Swiss' correctness of the plates was probably an afterthought since the whole thing was a night scene. The plates seen on the back of the Mercs look to be the wrong shape as well - more like 60's UK long ones instead of the squarer 'continental' type of the period.
Okay Dalko, you are right and there is at least one 190 (differences to the 180 to watch for are the chrome strip on the base of the windows, and front door vent windows). The 5961 as it crashes into the tree is a 190, as is 9641 as it skids on the oil and turns to the cliff. So it probably was the 190 going down and exploding as the burning car has vent windows. The 190 is also the main chase car inside the factory. I am still not convinced of a black 220. Could the close-ups not be a 190?
So, the 180's are seen mostly at the start of the scene, chasing the DB5 Road Car (that's the one without side repeater lights, the real FMP 7B from the 2010 auction). To the end, only the Gadget Car (the real BMT 216A) and the 190 (and grey 220) are seen. I think the shots with the Road Car and the 180's were filmed in Switzerland near the Pilatus factory, and the shots with the 190 chasing the Gadget Car were made in Pinewood. I don't know for sure, however.
I was under the impression that the cars actually used by EON were 180D's? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (note that I added no suffix to the 190) and there may have been 190's, but I thought the real cars used for that chase scene were 180D's (which, if you think of it from a propmaster's standpoint, makes perfect sense...which is cheaper, an old 180D taxi or a used 180?).
I am certain that not many Diesels were sold that weren't used as taxis. But this was mainly in Germany, certainly not the wealthy Switzerland (which used far more luxurious cars as taxis; there is a 1957 Swiss film, "Taxichauffeur Bänz", were mostly American cars are seen as Zurich taxis), and obviously not England with their standardized Austin taxicabs. The most common and cheapest Mercedes to get for the film would be gasoline powered as the taxis were driven as long as possible, with some still around in the early '70s and millions of miles on one engine.
You're dead right about there being many more 190's than I think either of us initially thought (yes, I watched the chase AGAIN...I'd like to watch another film now, lol!). Again I'm brought to the conclusion of a black 220S right when we see the first zoom shot as well as when Oddjob opens the car door to get out. This is because there's chrome over the arches on the rear fenders in both cases. While we never see the front of either car (which would of course tell us instantly what we were looking at), again correct me if I'm wrong, but the 190's chrome did not extended to the rear fender arches...which leaves only the 220S as a possibility.
I think the shots with the Road Car and the 180's were filmed in Switzerland near the Pilatus factory, and the shots with the 190 chasing the Gadget Car were made in Pinewood. I don't know for sure, however.
This is good information to know. If the scenes shot in Switzerland called for a 220S, it may very well have been a different color than the "British car". For example, we still don't know what car was driving around with its fog lights turned on in the smoke screen (and probably will never know since it jump cuts to a totally different car); you can barely see the silhouette. All we know is that its a Mercedes-Benz, really. It IS clear that whatever car Oddjob steps out of to play frisbee with Tilly Masterson's neck had fog lights, since we can JUST see one visible during the brief zoom on the door. Therefore, I think the car Oddjob steps out of and the car that drives through the smoke screen is the same car, at least.
I am certain that not many Diesels were sold that weren't used as taxis. But this was mainly in Germany, certainly not the wealthy Switzerland (which used far more luxurious cars as taxis; there is a 1957 Swiss film, "Taxichauffeur Bänz", were mostly American cars are seen as Zurich taxis), and obviously not England with their standardized Austin taxicabs. The most common and cheapest Mercedes to get for the film would be gasoline powered as the taxis were driven as long as possible, with some still around in the early '70s and millions of miles on one engine.
Again, I'd heard EON was using 180D's, I'm not sure where the person (when I lived in NY, my neighbor across the street was a rabid James Bond fan) who told me got their info, but in defense of him, he could have either been right (which I'm beginning to find unlikely) or, alternately, conflated two different stories that involved famous Bond cars from two different films (which I DO find likely).
If he conflated two different stories, then the Checker Taxis used in LALD (there were more than one...check out the grille bars and you'll find that one has chipping chrome while another has it perfectly intact and has a less worn paint scheme, as well) WERE sold off and no longer in service. The Checkers DID have even longer service lives than the German cabs (they averaged about 30 years), but every once in a while, you'd get a car where there had been severe upholstery damage, got into a crash that wasn't particularly serious, or perhaps developed issues with rust (common on the earlier cars). These cars were sold, usually for either transportation museums (or private owners, including filmmakers...note that neither LALD cab in NYC has a valid "medallion" on the hood; this allowed a cab to be hailed) or back to the factory where they were either broken down for parts or alternately rebuilt and sold as airport limousines or even more taxis. The car Bond actually gets into, for example, has a Checker Marathon Sedan's upholstery, not the strip-down type of a New York City Checker Taxi that neither I nor my father (rode in Checker Marathons since they were introduced...and before that, the 1940's Checker design [of which Brooklin makes a superb model, by the way] and DeSoto Skyview [the only correct model I know of is Sun Models, which is a bit lacking in detail, but is the only one with a correct paint scheme and roof...Vitesse got their model BADLY wrong]) is familiar with.
Excellent and enlightening discussion here, after a few weeks of near silence. The continuity errors and confusion as to the Mercedes models used in the car chase only shows that when the movie was made the chase cars were considered of secondary importance. They just had to be dark, large, something you could see on Swiss roads and something gangsters were likely to use. They were certainly not intended to be “Bond movie” cars the way the DB5 or the Lotus in a later movie were. So no wonder that it took almost 50 years and invention of Blu-Ray technology to even determine that there were continuity errors. Neither Fabbri nor Ixo should be expected to have made as much research as our forum members have, so what will turn up is anyone’s guess and cannot be determined just from watching the movie. This is also another example showing that the collection is no longer Bond-centric but exclusively car-centric, and I would really like to be proved wrong by a realistic movie diorama instead of a generic packaging.
"They just had to be dark, large, something you could see on Swiss roads and something gangsters were likely to use. They were certainly not intended to be “Bond movie” cars the way the DB5 or the Lotus in a later movie were."
Very true Jag, but then, neither was the Sunbeam Alpine in DN. As iconic as that car has become, the original intent was that they simply wanted to put Bond in a generic, British-made sport roadster. Likewise, look at how iconic the Leyland Sherpa telephone van driven by Jaws in TSWLM has become. Yet, there were continuity errors out the wazoo in the damage done to that. It was simply meant to be a "generic, beat up van". But it took on a different meaning. Felix's T-Bird from GF, which although it has the wrong tail lights in the collection, was really well-received, was more or less random and has two continuity errors (fender skirts and if you look REAL close, the tires). Should we chalk up these entries as "car-centric" as well, just because they were thought of as taking on a secondary role by the people making the film? After all, these were much earlier in the collection.
"They just had to be dark, large, something you could see on Swiss roads and something gangsters were likely to use. They were certainly not intended to be “Bond movie” cars the way the DB5 or the Lotus in a later movie were."
Very true Jag, but then, neither was the Sunbeam Alpine in DN. As iconic as that car has become, the original intent was that they simply wanted to put Bond in a generic, British-made sport roadster. Likewise, look at how iconic the Leyland Sherpa telephone van driven by Jaws in TSWLM has become. Yet, there were continuity errors out the wazoo in the damage done to that. It was simply meant to be a "generic, beat up van". But it took on a different meaning. Felix's T-Bird from GF, which although it has the wrong tail lights in the collection, was really well-received, was more or less random and has two continuity errors (fender skirts and if you look REAL close, the tires). Should we chalk up these entries as "car-centric" as well, just because they were thought of as taking on a secondary role by the people making the film? After all, these were much earlier in the collection.
I guess they were either good hints that the collection would be becoming more and more car-centric, or perhaps they we put in as gap-fillers and their good reception made the publisher realise that they could extend the series practically indefinitely. In either case, I would have been perfectly happy if they had never appeared as part of this collection. I'm not criticising the models themselves, just the greed of the publisher, whose result is that more and more subscribers feel they have to drop out.
"They just had to be dark, large, something you could see on Swiss roads and something gangsters were likely to use. They were certainly not intended to be “Bond movie” cars the way the DB5 or the Lotus in a later movie were."
Very true Jag, but then, neither was the Sunbeam Alpine in DN. As iconic as that car has become, the original intent was that they simply wanted to put Bond in a generic, British-made sport roadster. Likewise, look at how iconic the Leyland Sherpa telephone van driven by Jaws in TSWLM has become. Yet, there were continuity errors out the wazoo in the damage done to that. It was simply meant to be a "generic, beat up van". But it took on a different meaning. Felix's T-Bird from GF, which although it has the wrong tail lights in the collection, was really well-received, was more or less random and has two continuity errors (fender skirts and if you look REAL close, the tires). Should we chalk up these entries as "car-centric" as well, just because they were thought of as taking on a secondary role by the people making the film? After all, these were much earlier in the collection.
I guess they were either good hints that the collection would be becoming more and more car-centric, or perhaps they we put in as gap-fillers and their good reception made the publisher realise that they could extend the series practically indefinitely. In either case, I would have been perfectly happy if they had never appeared as part of this collection. I'm not criticising the models themselves, just the greed of the publisher, whose result is that more and more subscribers feel they have to drop out.
Jag, although the collection may have taken a downward turn, I don't think anyone regarded the Sunbeam Alpine, Leyland Sherpa, or Felix's Ford Thunderbird as gap-filler when they were released. Or, for that matter, when they appeared in the films. Very often an object (such as a car) in a film gains a cult following when the people making the film don't intend it that way. Take the Dodge Charger R/T in Bullitt. Although Steve McQueen's Mustang was obviously something the filmmakers wanted you to pay attention to, I believe the Charger was chosen by Bill Hickman because he liked how it handled. Yet, you just can't complete that scene without the Charger and I've seen many, many attempts to make a Code 3 out of an existing Charger to get the one that appeared in Bullitt.
But this raises an interesting question, too: what about things that the moviemakers clearly wanted us to pay attention to, yet we really didn't care? I'll take Bond as an example. In DAD, as product placement, Jinx (Halle Berry) drives a Ford Thunderbird. The airwaves in the US were PLASTERED with advertisements for that car, it got extra footage shot of it that was placed in the commercials, it was even thrown in the US trailer! The bottom line was that the filmmakers (as well as Ford) really, really wanted us to see and remember THAT car. But who remembers it particularly well? Without looking on IMCDB, do you even remember what shade of red it was? Now contrast this with the afterthought Sunbeam Alpine from DN that EON only featured as a "generic British sports car". Even the most ardent Bond-centric is not only going to be able to identify the Sunbeam Alpine (perhaps if not by name, then by sight), but they're going to be able to relate to it. Hey, that was James Bond's first car in the films! I admit my example is extreme on both ends, so let's tone it down.
What about the Tuk-Tuk Autorickshaw Taxi from OP vs. the afterthought 1964 Lincoln Continental in GF? Yes, afterthought. They could have given Auric Goldfinger just about any luxury car as "disposable" (they had given him a Rolls-Royce Phantom III as eye candy for any car enthusiasts of the time in the crowd, after all...and THAT was disposable!) and it would have fit his persona. The former was something that the people at EON obviously wanted us to remember. It popped a wheelie, it got chased by Jeeps and other Tuk-Tuks, it got a boatload of screen time, Vijay Armitraj was driving it, Roger Moore was shooting at the baddies out the back...and yet, it's one of the absolute cheapest JBCC models you can get on eBay. Now compare that to the black '64 Lincoln Continental. Oh, it gets screentime. And one of two henchmen drives it to shoot a guy whose name is likely memorable to every Star Wars fan who also watches Bond and nobody else. And no, it's not crushed. A '63 demonstrator with no engine in blue is crushed. Yet, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that more people can put together a mental picture of the Continental, or at the very least picture it more quickly. Even with its problematic trunk and lack of whitewall tires, the Continental sells considerably better on eBay, I'll tell you that!
Does that lower status, though...one film wanting you to remember the auto-rickshaw and another to remember a crushed continuity error...make the Continental a lesser entry in the JBCC than the Tuk-Tuk? Filler? I don't think so. And judging from eBay sales, I doubt many other people think so, either.
Hmmm, not sure Bullitt is such a good example. That was a duel, one on one. So the "baddie" car wass necessary to complement the good one. The Goldfinger Merc cars were not counterparts to the DB5 in any way. The Sherpa Van again was not something particularly important. In the movie, it could have just been any van, it would have made no difference, and how many people were collecting Sherpa Vans (or buying real ones) because they saw one in a 007 movie? If the Sherpa Van somehow belonged in this collection, it was only and purely because UH made an effort (good or bad, that is another story) to make it like the movie vehicle - with the diorama and the Jaws' damage. Without those, it would have been just one more nondescript van. But you are onto something now, I admit - The Sherpa did come in as a result of an extension, not part of the original 40 (which woud have been a perfect number!). As for the Sunbeam Alpine - to me this was a borderline release. A car Bond merely drove. How many people think of the Alpine as the essential Bond (or even essential Bond movie) vehicle?
How many people think of the Alpine as the essential Bond (or even essential Bond movie) vehicle?
I hang around with car-centrics, so this will obviously be skewed, but the answer on my end is "everyone I know that saw DN and cares anything for cars".
That was a duel, one on one. So the "baddie" car wass necessary to complement the good one. The Goldfinger Merc cars were not counterparts to the DB5 in any way.
Completely disagree. Along these lines, the '66 Toyopet Crown that chased Aki's Toyota 2000GT in YOLT would have had to have been its equal. After all, it was a duel and a rather long-lasting one. But which car chase and frankly what cars, level of trim not withstanding, is more memorable as a Bond car chase? The DB5 showing off its stuff for the first time with a bunch of nearly-identical 180's and 190's chasing it? Or a duel involving a car that one movie review I have mistakenly identified as a Dodge?
And for that matter, what about Ourumov's GAZ-31029 Volga in GE being chased by Bond's tank? He wouldn't have taken the tank and wreaked havoc if he wasn't after the Volga. While it's true they could have taken any Soviet or Russian car of that size or larger, the Volga moves the plot forward and gets plenty of screentime either knocking into civilians or crashing down an alleyway. How could something that moves the plot forward be "filler"?
The Sherpa Van again was not something particularly important. In the movie, it could have just been any van, it would have made no difference, and how many people were collecting Sherpa Vans (or buying real ones) because they saw one in a 007 movie?
A few people were trying to make them before the JBCC issue. There weren't any in 1/43. But again, this ties into Ourumov's Volga above. It doesn't ultimately matter what the car was. It had a heck of a role and moved the plot forward pretty significantly.
The Sherpa did come in as a result of an extension, not part of the original 40 (which woud have been a perfect number!).
Problem here is that there were vehicles in the original 40 that frankly had no business being there. The Moke that appears for far less time than the Mercs comes to mind. So does the Triumph Stag and MGB that followed it. Ditto Jinx's T-Bird. The Ford GT40 that everyone thinks is probably the collection's worst entry was issue 39. Planned cars like the 220S, the Merc 450SEL, the '61 Chevy 1-Ton, the Merc 220D, the Scaldia-Volga, the Dodge M43 Ambulance, the '73 Chevy Bel Air, the Ford Ranch Wagon, and the Wales & Edwards Rangemaster milk float ALL had more important roles than these "pre-40" cars. Yet, aside from the Triumph Stag and GT40, we didn't hear the kind of "it's filler" we're hearing now about cars that were done then.
Further, and again I'd like your opinion on this, what about the Tuk-Tuk vs. the Engel Contintental and the New Ford Thunderbird vs. the Sunbeam Alpine? The former cars have been received poorly in the JBCC (with Jinx's T-Bird also receiving a terrible reception in real life as shameless product placement), but the latter have been received well. Again, if they're only filler (and they seem to be, per your logic), why? Why are people buying "filler" and liking it? I'm not trying to seem hostile, btw...I don't want to get into that again...I just want to make clear I'd like to know why you think this.
Thinking of the "original 40" the problem is that we probably don't know what they original shortlist was. I think Fabbri had decided to add more very early on, just didn't share the info with the subscribers. And once they did, it made perfect sense to spread out the most essential vehicles more thinly. That's how the likes of the Moke or the Stag have come in. To me, the "essential" Bond collection would consist of cars that most (all?) of us collectors could not imagine not having in it (as opposed to something we would like to see in it just because we liked it). So the Stag, the Alpine and the Sherpa would not make it. Simply because support for them would not be unanimously universal, even if many of us would want them.
Now when you think about the Lotus Esprit and the DB5 on the one hand, and the Stag or the Tuk-Tuk on the other (by the way I liked both the Tuk-Tuk and the Moke), we may clearly see them as essential vs non-essential, but there are many more vehicles (both in and out of the current collection) that are somewhere in between. So there can never be an objective borderline. Some collectors will be happy with only 2-5 cars, others 40, and there will be some who will continue as subscribers indefinitely, regardless of how many releases there are. Which is why I find it so interesting to see other collectors' opinions here, and which is why I will never consider you or anyone else taking part in the discussion as "hostile". Well, perhaps if you start calling me names... ) The reality is, just ike in real life nothing is back-and-white, and we see things differently. It only makes it more interesting!
As most know already I am a subscriber and will no doubt continue to the last issue. However i do think the models we have received recently are very poor in comparison to the early pre 40 or even the pre 110. A car will have a following whether it featured highly or blink if you miss it spot in a short scene. the problem we have now is the lack of diorama and indeed figures. A poor model was possibly compensated set in a nice diorama represnting a scene from a particular bond movie. The figures added detail and life to the model. Without both it is nothing more than a poor model. The blunderbird, Peugeot Cambridge , Austin slack cab , Ford Anglia re-issue are all pretty poor . i think GEFabbri need to draw a line and end the collection after this extention. There is no point continuing with this standard or lack of a standard.
Incidently I liked the sherpa and think as a bond car it is more interesting than yet another aston in another pose. Likewise the Dragon Tank, Bondola (scale issues aside) are great additions to the collection. More of this kind of thing would be fantastic. GEFAbbri if you read this and value us your customers dont become complacent , more of us will - jump ship if you continue releasing follies. I am an optimist and hope these recent issues are fillers before the real gems return to the collection . Otherwise like i said please draw a line
Incidently I liked the sherpa and think as a bond car it is more interesting than yet another aston in another pose.
I think you've expressed something here that I was trying to express to Jag, but wasn't quite sure how to. It was better than another Aston in another pose, wasn't it? Frankly, if we just got Aston-Martin after Aston-Martin after Aston-Martin in various poses (which are truly essential Bond cars), well...the collection would be pretty boring, would it not?
or even the pre 110.
To which I say give them a chance with the Merc since it did briefly appear, even if the result of a continuity error. The Niva was well-modeled save the lack of bull bar and fog lights (plus a small logo on the hood that was literally not visible in the film). Likewise the VAZ-2106 Militsia car and Mercedes-Benz 220 RHD. I'm still convinced they're having legal issues of some kind considering the complete and total lack of depictions of even people in the background where they're actually going out of their way to edit people out (which actually costs more money than keeping them in).
So the Stag, the Alpine and the Sherpa would not make it.
Simply put, I could not imagine a Bond collection that claimed to be "essential" and was missing the Alpine. Sorry. Nor would I consider a 40-car Bond collection "essential" if it was missing the Sherpa.
and which is why I will never consider you or anyone else taking part in the discussion as "hostile". Well, perhaps if you start calling me names...
Ha! Thanks! I've a horrific cold that's been allowing me approximately 4 hours of sleep a night, so if I seem a bit cranky, there's logical reason for it! )
Now, with that said, what are your opinions on...
1) The Toyota 2000GT vs. the '66 Toyopet Crown (everyone, the JBCC included, called it the "Toyota Crown", but that's just plain wrong). Looking back, there are actually very few "duel" type car chases where only one car chases Bond in a given scene. In DN, we see it with the Sunbeam Alpine and La Salle/Miller Combination Coach Hearse. We technically see it in FRWL with Kerim's Roller and the Bulgars' Citroen Traction 11BL, but the chase is very brief. We see it in GF with only Oddjob's Lincoln Continental and Felix's T-Bird. In TB, there isn't one. In YOLT, we get it with the 2000GT and the Crown. In OHMSS, there isn't one.
-DAF? Nope.
-LALD? Technically Strutter's '73 Impala tailing Bond's Checker cab.
-TMWTGG? Scaramanga's AMC Matador Coupe vs. Bond's AMC Hornet X.
-TSWLM? Nope.
-MR? Nothing.
-FYEO? Nope, Bond never gets chased by one car.
-OP? Technically Orlov's Scaldia-Volga following Bond's Mercedes-Benz, but he can't follow him directly (as is made clear when his driver prepares to turn, he sees the Merc on rails, and practically does a doubletake before deadpanning "follow that car").
-AVTAK? Again, no.
-TLD? Nope.
-LTK? You could argue the VERY last of the two tanker trucks chasing one another, but it's part of a larger scene.
-GE? The "duel" returns in full force in GE with the DB5 vs. the Ferrari and the GAZ-31029 Volga vs. the tank (although he is chased himself, his clear objective is Ourumov's Volga).
-TND? Again, Bond is never chased by a single enemy car.
-TWINE? Nope.
-DAD? Vanish vs. Jaguar, plus the hovercraft vs. hovercraft of the PTS.
-CR? Bond is always chased by multiple cars.
-QoS? Again, Bond is consistently chased by multiple cars.
Therefore, there aren't many true duels in Bond movie history. Yet, most people want to complete at least one of the chase component cars that went after Bond.
Finally, and I'll restate this from my last post...
"Further, and again I'd like your opinion on this, what about the Tuk-Tuk vs. the Engel Contintental and the New Ford Thunderbird vs. the Sunbeam Alpine? The former cars have been received poorly in the JBCC (with Jinx's T-Bird also receiving a terrible reception in real life as shameless product placement), but the latter have been received well. BUT the former cars were ones that EON 'wanted' us to remember and less so the latter. Again, if they're only filler (and they seem to be, per your logic), why do people buy them and like them?"
The original intended 40 was published on the old MI6 site for a long time, but that went into history with the old site. The list might even be somewhere in the early pages of this thread - I don't have it to hand but there were some models listed for the first 40 back in 2007 that only appeared later in the series.
Here's those first 40 releases again (UK sequence, France had some variations):
01 Aston Martin DB5 ~ GF
02 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish ~ DAD
03 Lotus Esprit "submarine" ~ TSWLM
04 BMW Z8 ~ TWINE
05 Citroen 2CV ~ FYEO
06 Jaguar XKR ~ DAD
07 Toyota 2000GT ~ YOLT
08 Lotus Esprit Turbo ~ FYEO
09 BMW Z3 ~ GE
10 Ferrari F355 GTS ~ GE
11 Aston Martin DB5 ~ TB
12 Aston Martin DBS ~ OHMSS
13 Ford Mustang Mach 1 ~ DAF
14 Aston Martin V8 Vantage ~ TLD
15 BMW 750iL ~ TND
16 Lotus Esprit ~ TSWLM
17 Sunbeam Alpine ~ DN
18 Triumph Stag ~ DAF
19 MGB Roadster ~ TMWTGG
20 Aston Martin DBS ~ CR
21 Mercury Cougar ~ OHMSS
22 Corvorado ~ LALD
23 Mercedes-Benz 250SE ~ OP
24 Mini Moke ~ LALD
25 Aston Martin DB5 ~ GF
26 Lada 1500 [Police] ~ TLD
27 Ford Thunderbird ~ DAD
28 AMC Hornet ~ TMWTGG
29 Tuk Tuk ~ OP
30 Ford Mustang Convertible (soft-top) ~ TB
31 Moon Buggy ~ DAF
32 Mercedes-Benz 600 ~ OHMSS
33 Chevrolet Bel Air ~ DN
34 Range Rover ~ TND
35 Ford Mustang Convertible (open-top) ~ GF
36 ZAZ-965A ~ GE
37 Chevrolet Corvette ~ AVTAK
38 Maserati BiTurbo ~ LTK
39 Lamborghini Diablo ~ DAD
40 Citroen Traction Avant ~ FRWL
3 x DB5, 2 x Esprit and 2 x Mustang Convertibles in that lot so some repetition early on (although fair variations between issues for the first two of those three).
Despite being a Ford fan myself, I reckon that the Thunderbird from DAD was a poor choice for an early model - I guess that if Minichamps hadn't already done this one in their JB series it would have come along much later in the JBCC.
It would be interesting to hear your opinions on when this collection first "jumped the shark"? For me the first dubious inclusion would have to be the MGB at Issue 19 - although I can see that it would have been a desirable choice for UH as they already had a 1/43 mould for that car from their own range.
It would be interesting to hear your opinions on when this collection first "jumped the shark"? For me the first dubious inclusion would have to be the MGB at Issue 19 - although I can see that it would have been a desirable choice for UH as they already had a 1/43 mould for that car from their own range.
Being a car-centric, my view on this would naturally be skewed, but earlier than you may think: Issue 18, the Triumph Stag. It's a VERY poor model of the Stag (as in, worse than the Austin FX4 or the Austin A55 Cambridge compared to their respective prototypes) though fortunately, Corgi Vanguards makes a superb model for the value in the same color...you might want to change out the headlights and license plates, but that's it), it didn't touch the display stand with all 4 wheels when UH WAS actually trying to sculpt decent display stands, you see plenty on eBay going for next to nothing, and its appearance was certainly far more brief than not only Ixo's "car-centric" models between 90 and 113 and now the Lada Niva (although it did get more screen time than the ZIL-117, that gets a pass from me simply because it was masterfully done and even had there been dioramas allowed, there are no figures allowed in Daniel Craig films until his EON contract expires, remember?), but also, naturally, a great many wonderful UH models between 40 and 80.
To be honest, I'm sure you can say the series has jumped the shark. Individual issues have jumped the shark, of course, but what if Fabbri really isn't allowed to use likenesses (or the price to use them went through the roof and would double the price of the cars...one or the other) as I strongly suspect is the case? After all, Fabbri was literally bankrupted and bought out by another company. They might not have the money to continue using likenesses. If only we had some transparency with them...some feedback here. If they flat-out admitted "we're not using likenesses because we got into a spat with UH who made lower-priced cars, we can't afford to pay Ixo and include figures/likenesses, and we don't think we could sell cars at 10.99 GBP with a marketing strategy shifting toward car-centrism" right here, on this forum, I'll bet more than a few of us would at least understand them, if not outright retract everything we've said about them.
Diecast007 & Dalkowski – I totally agree with both of you. Being a Bond-centric DOES NOT mean that wanting the same Aston in every pose shown in the movies! So when I say that too many models in the collection have a filler role only, this refers to quite a few Astons as well. I’d be perfectly happy with just one DB5, one Vantage etc., in fact the first ever filler WAS a DB5, but because it was a DB5 and it did come with a diorama, we all fell for it.
I have to agree that Bond movies are not really about car duels. The Vanish vs Jaguar in DAD is one of the few exceptions, and as a result I’m sure we will all agree that the Jag is essential. Most other baddies cars are not, but some of us will have great interest in them nevertheless. That’s fine by me, it shows that we have different interest and fascinations. I can certainly live without the Toyopet Crown, I didn’t even know (and did not want to know) what the car was until Fabbri produced a model of it. On the other hand, always wanted the Citroen Traction Avant, but probably because I liked the car and not because it was so Bond movie-like.
FACT, in retrospect I recall that issue 11 already raised my suspicions. The GE Ferrari (issue 10) was really already borderline, but it was part of a humorous car “duel” and I didn’t mind it, but a second DB5 with plastic water cannons added seemed strange even back then. But it was very early on, and we had no idea there would be at least 130 models, so we were all more forgiving...
On the 'Bond-centric' and 'car-centric' subject that seems to have something of an undercurrent here, I do wonder if the two things don’t actually go hand in hand. Some years ago I had a business meeting with an author whilst he was preparing what is now a well known book on the GF DB5 'The Most Famous Car in The World', with a view to me producing illustrations for it. We talked about how the DB5 gadgetry was created and how it was used in the Bond movies i.e. relevance to the scene, but the conversation seemed to dwell on DB5s/Astons as much as Bond. This then moved on to the other cars used in Bond movies other than Goldfinger, with both of us having as much interest in the cars as the movies. What I'm getting at here is that I think for a great many people (but not all), to be interested in Bond also often means being very interested in cars. How many of us got hooked on Bond movies as kids by seeing clips of the car chase scenes on TV?
If you are both car and Bond-minded it’s easy to switch from one camp to the other when considering the JBCC models individually. I’m nuts about most Astons (apart from the Lagonda) and would happily sell certain relatives to own one. I love the ones seen in JB movies, so any Aston model is a definite must-have. However, I wouldn't dream of owning a real Lada or a Sherpa van, but can totally see their importance in the Bond movies, so wouldn't think of disrespecting them from that point of view. Funnily enough, although the consensus of opinion here seems to be that the collection has moved to the 'car-centric' side, I would argue that it's also now in the realm of the true Bond fan too. Only a true Bond fan would want totally obscure models simply because 'they're Bond' or the entire set regardless of number for the same reason. It says something that so many have waited however many years to get to issue 117, which is the other half to issue 25, the pair of them representing the most iconic Bond car chase ever.
In terms of the early ones, I think Fabbri dropped in more obscure cars for two reasons, firstly to get everyone to sign up for forty models that weren't in order of fame, so subscribers would need to stick with it to get the well-known ones if that's all they wanted. Secondly it tested the water regarding the less famous vehicles, in terms of customer reaction weighed up against extending the series with fewer famous cars included – why else would they do the LALD Moke instead of the much better known YOLT Moke?
For myself, I really liked the 'famous' ones but I'd seen most of them modelled before, albeit without dioramas, so the previously unseen models had just as much of a 'wow factor' for me - i.e the OHMSS Cougar, the Dragon Tank, the LD Land Rover, the MWTGG Matador, even the GF Ranchero (lousy model but it's a classic Goldfinger piece). Where I do have a problem is when it’s a vehicle I really don’t like from a Bond movie I don’t like (Tuk-Tuk, FX4 and Octopussy) then I can’t justify buying it either from a Bond point of view or as a car enthusiast.
Sorry to change the subject but bought the Country Squire today and was just quite surprised that this highly regarded model is not from oh-so-super car-centric Ixo but proudly displays "Universal Hobbies" on the packaging. Anyone noticed this before? It still doesn't come with anything other than a standard gravel road base but the lettering is silver, not white. Do your bases have silver text?
And coming back to the Goldfinger chase (I mean, what else could one possibly do on the first warm, sunny sunday of the year other than watching GF in slow-mo ). MCF is right and the chase was filmed in Pinewood. When the 190 hits the tree it is passed by a 180, so my guess of 180's used in Switzerland and 190's in England was wrong, as was my explanation of the different number plates. They simply put the rear plates on the front of other cars for some shots (only two numbers for probably four 180/190's). In the factory the 190 is seen for the first time with both front and rear plates, and these are correct with the crests only at the rear. I hope the magazine will shed some light on this scene, how many cars were used etc. - Still don't see a black 220S ... the one Oddjob steps out is clearly grey like his trousers while his jacket is black and clearly darker than the car.
Sorry to change the subject but bought the Country Squire today and was just quite surprised that this highly regarded model is not from oh-so-super car-centric Ixo but proudly displays "Universal Hobbies" on the packaging.
In that case, the packaging is wrong. I hate to sound crazy, but it is. The car is slated to be released as an Ixo PremiumX Diecast car using the exact same mould with different wheels and was in development prior to release by PCT, the company that owns Ixo (but not Universal Hobbies). Their product numbers will be PRD202 and PRD203 (one cream, one light blue). Those numbers were set aside for a Country Squire before the Bond model was ever released. Further, unscrew the car from its base and have a look at the font compared to both UH and Ixo. It's got Ixo's font. Also no gun barrel 007 logo on the case. The way in which it was held to the base was via a Phillips head screw driven through a black plastic retainer. Universal Hobbies, on almost all their models regardless of collection (and every model in the JBCC), uses a cube-shaped protrusion from the bottom of the car that fits into a little slot moulded into the bases. Finally, there's no "Universal Hobbies" or "UH" stamp on the plastic base. I know that last one isn't on all UH cars, but it's on many. The packing could simply be recycled or a misprint. I know for a fact that this is an Ixo car. However...
Do your bases have silver text?
Nope. Mine has white text. Perhaps UH is doing the bases for some of the back issues?
What I'm getting at here is that I think for a great many people (but not all), to be interested in Bond also often means being very interested in cars. How many of us got hooked on Bond movies as kids by seeing clips of the car chase scenes on TV?
If you are both car and Bond-minded it’s easy to switch from one camp to the other when considering the JBCC models individually. I’m nuts about most Astons (apart from the Lagonda) and would happily sell certain relatives to own one. I love the ones seen in JB movies, so any Aston model is a definite must-have. However, I wouldn't dream of owning a real Lada or a Sherpa van, but can totally see their importance in the Bond movies, so wouldn't think of disrespecting them from that point of view. Funnily enough, although the consensus of opinion here seems to be that the collection has moved to the 'car-centric' side, I would argue that it's also now in the realm of the true Bond fan too. Only a true Bond fan would want totally obscure models simply because 'they're Bond' or the entire set regardless of number for the same reason. It says something that so many have waited however many years to get to issue 117, which is the other half to issue 25, the pair of them representing the most iconic Bond car chase ever.
I agree with every word said here...including the part about owning a Lada. )
Therefore, there aren't many true duels in Bond movie history. Yet, most people want to complete at least one of the chase component cars that went after Bond.
Totally agree, I don't think it was until DAD that we got to see anything like an evenly matched 'duel' in terms of power, desirability of the two cars and weaponry(!). I think the one enduring factor that links all of the Bond movies up until the Craig ones is the humour of the car chases - either in the chase itself (quirky gadgets, outrageous manoeuvres etc) or the choice of vehicles (Alpine v hearse, 2CV v Peugeot, Lotus v helicopter). Once you get to QOS the mood is far more serious, the DBS/Alfa chase could almost have been in 'Bourne' or 'Heat'.
with Jinx's T-Bird also receiving a terrible reception in real life as shameless product placement
I don't know what Ford were thinking of there. I think that particular T-Bird was meant to echo the style of the 'Vegas' 57 Bird but just didn't get there somehow. There's a few of them floating around in the UK but they only seem to get looks of curiosity rather than green envy of the owner.
Sorry to change the subject but bought the Country Squire today and was just quite surprised that this highly regarded model is not from oh-so-super car-centric Ixo but proudly displays "Universal Hobbies" on the packaging. Anyone noticed this before? It still doesn't come with anything other than a standard gravel road base but the lettering is silver, not white. Do your bases have silver text?
I wonder if it's a corrected shipment of some sort? Like IXO sent them out fully packaged but with the captions missing? If that was the case, maybe they were opened up, captions printed and re-sealed in unwanted UH containers by another packaging company. I know plenty of folks like to keep their JBCC models in the original transit packs, but EMFabbri would assume customers rip them open and throw them away, so 'UH' printed on them is probably not a problem as far as they're concerned. Either way, it could end up being a rarity.
I wonder if it's a corrected shipment of some sort? Like IXO sent them out fully packaged but with the captions missing? If that was the case, maybe they were opened up, captions printed and re-sealed in unwanted UH containers by another packaging company.
It's definately not some recycled old UH packaging. The text is placed closer to fit the tight-fitting Ixo-style blister, the base is about 5 mm shorter and 10 mm narrower than the older UH bases. The text is exactly the same all round as on the Silver Cloud (copyright 2011 GE Fabbri) but the font is regular width instead of the usual narrow UH typeface. 007 sticker is still absent.
If it was an Ixo car repackaged at UH's factory, it should have the same base and blister as the other UH issues. Could it be that UH is back in the game as a subcontractor, with Ixo making the moulds but not having the resources to produce all the releases itself? But then it also would have the old UH style base and blister?
I wonder if it's a corrected shipment of some sort? Like IXO sent them out fully packaged but with the captions missing? If that was the case, maybe they were opened up, captions printed and re-sealed in unwanted UH containers by another packaging company.
It's definately not some recycled old UH packaging. The text is placed closer to fit the tight-fitting Ixo-style blister, the base is about 5 mm shorter and 10 mm narrower than the older UH bases. The text is exactly the same all round as on the Silver Cloud (copyright 2011 GE Fabbri) but the font is regular width instead of the usual narrow UH typeface. 007 sticker is still absent.
If it was an Ixo car repackaged at UH's factory, it should have the same base and blister as the other UH issues. Could it be that UH is back in the game as a subcontractor, with Ixo making the moulds but not having the resources to produce all the releases itself? But then it also would have the old UH style base and blister?
Thinking about it, isn't issue 105 the first smaller, regular UH size box that IXO made? Weren't all the previous IXO issues prior to that one in the big long boxes? If that's the case, maybe IXO were sent a bunch of smaller UH packaging base cards to follow for style and wording but either accidently used them or copied them too precisely, including the UH details. Being Chinese, they may not have been aware of the mistake, any more than most Western people would do printing something in their language.
Didn't the Bronco and Zil have the short box already?
Yes, they did...as a matter of fact, the Bronco introduced us to the now-roundly-hated "dirt road".
Could it be that UH is back in the game as a subcontractor, with Ixo making the moulds but not having the resources to produce all the releases itself? But then it also would have the old UH style base and blister?
I doubt it. PCT's moulds have all been completely different than UH's, even with relation to cars totally unrelated to Bond. For example, the recently-released Franco-Romanian Oltcit Club had to actually have a mould developed for it by Ixo despite UH having already made a Citroen Axel 12 TRS, which was the rebadged version sold in the west. Same car, but the moulds are not even close. Likewise whenever Ixo releases a Renault 4, which UH did a whole partwork on. But there IS an easy way of telling regardless: the screwhead. It should be small, triangular, and painted black if it's UH. It should be larger, either black or unpainted, and have one of a Phillips head or a LARGE, UNPAINTED triangular head if Ixo (at least for this particular issue). After all, you can only subcontract so much. With that said, your model sounds like more of an oddity than anything else. I wouldn't take it out of the blister unless you felt sure you could somehow get it back in. I have a friend in the Ukraine who specializes in this; perhaps you'd want his advice?
If it was an Ixo car repackaged at UH's factory, it should have the same base and blister as the other UH issues.
Believe it or not...nope. Neither Ixo nor UH actually owns factories in China. Oxford Diecast and Tomy (Ebbro) are the only two I can think of that actually own their own factories. I do think PCT (i.e. Ixo) owns its own assembly line, but has to share it with Starline, Hongwell, Cararama, Welly, New Ray, Minichamps, and Kyosho that I know of.
They'd be packaged in a separate facility...if you look around eBay, you find a lot of factory rejects that are seemingly "missing" packing and only have the display stands. Thing is, they're just not done being packed. They were rejected before they could be packed. Being packed at a separate facility may mean sharing the packing with totally different brands than what I've mentioned.
An alternate theory I've been chewing on (so to speak) is that this particular car was made around when Issue 110 or Issue 111 was released. Since UH was not only making both models, but in succession, a type-setting error at the place of packing during this time period wouldn't be out of the question.
Either way, Jag has it right...I can't wait to see photos of this!
I don't know what Ford were thinking of there. I think that particular T-Bird was meant to echo the style of the 'Vegas' 57 Bird but just didn't get there somehow. There's a few of them floating around in the UK but they only seem to get looks of curiosity rather than green envy of the owner.
I've made no secret that my uncle works for Ford and he didn't like this car, either. When I asked what the inspiration was in terms of Ford Thunderbird generations, he responded rather sarcastically: "None of them. We just screwed up a '49 Buick." )
Just chipping in on the packaging issue, all three of the Ixo models that I've received so far (Cadillac hearse, La Salle hearse, Binz Ambulance) have come in packaging bearing the standard UH name & French address at the top. Copyright date on all was 2010, implying these were from the original production run.
I noted the oddity but thought nothing of it at the time. I have all three still in the outer wrapping but unfortunately I am 50km away from them for the rest of the week.
Just chipping in on the packaging issue, all three of the Ixo models that I've received so far (Cadillac hearse, La Salle hearse, Binz Ambulance) have come in packaging bearing the standard UH name & French address at the top. Copyright date on all was 2010, implying these were from the original production run.
I wonder...was this during the period when Issue 110 and Issue 111 were released in the UK? I know you mention the copyright date being 2010, but does anyone have a UH model they got via back-order? Also, RW, what's your copyright date? And does anyone have a Ford Anglia "corrected" version still in the blister? I'm beginning to get an idea that we may have something like this that happened...
1) The cars' moulds were copyrighted. Simple enough.
2) Whoever happened to be making the British model at the time got their address slapped on the packing blister. After all, if you're going to provide up-to-date contact info (the French address was noted), it's much easier to just cut paste the whole thing save for the actual date, which might get you in legal trouble, than making out a completely new address. I'll tell you this...some of us may be Car-Centric or Bond-Centric, but the collection itself is Anglo-Centric. In other words, as goes the British collection, so follows everything else (the ONE exception to date has been in Brazil, where the MP Lafer got bumped way up), quite possibly including packaging.
The Ixo cars I got had "Ocean Metal Factory" and not UH. That's why I was surprised to see UH on the Ford.
Thus far, every Ixo car (Country Squire included) I've gotten has been "Ocean Metal Factory". It's one of the factories where PCT manufactures their cars. Sometimes they like avoiding using the name "Ixo", like I know with their early Russian issues, they would just put down "Premium CT" and with the Polish issues and Atlas DDR Nutzfahrzeuge, they put down "Ist", even though they're not technically Ist Models.
Comments
I got it from when the DB5 "breaks formation" at the gate, so to speak. You can briefly see the 220S's license plate as the henchmen jump out of the way. You CANNOT see it due to miniscule font while driving through the factory. But the car DOES end up with NE-3184 license plates, since I did finally watch the entire chase to the end.
I was under the impression that the cars actually used by EON were 180D's? Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (note that I added no suffix to the 190) and there may have been 190's, but I thought the real cars used for that chase scene were 180D's (which, if you think of it from a propmaster's standpoint, makes perfect sense...which is cheaper, an old 180D taxi or a used 180?).
The black 220S is the car Oddjob gets out of. Looking back on it (thank you for making me replay the film YET AGAIN, haha!), there was definitely a black 220S, but it appears much more briefly than I'd thought. It appears when Oddjob gets out (and then morphs into some variant of 180) as well as very briefly when the guy is firing an MP-40. Did the 180 have chrome around the base of the windows and the bases of the pillars AND chrome over the rear fenders, as well? I don't think so. Whatever car Oddjob got out of and whatever car the guy firing the MP-40 in a zoom shot was riding around in have this, yet the other 180's/180D's and what I believe is a 190 do not.
The car on fire (not the one that goes down the cliff, which is a 180 or 180D, the one that hits the side of the building while already on fire) also has chrome on the base of the pillars and base of the windows. However, it has the vents and lacks chrome trim over the fenders. Wouldn't that be a 190?
It could even have been the black 220S (none of the 180's or 180D's they used had visible fog lights) simply for the safety of the stunt driver. Remember, we never actually see that car except enveloped in smoke (except in the closeup of the obvious 180 or 180D, which is of course a different car).
Too bad we don't know which scenes were shot where...it might help in ID'ing some of the cars used/figuring out how many were used.
When I made my own model 180 with bad guys, I used this clip as reference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPfAUnDP9GE
One interesting point is right at the start, 'NE 9641' appears to have a string or elastic band around the front plate to hold it in place (above and below the crest, arrowed) which I think means the plates were 'mock-ups' to place over the non-Swiss originals:
Click to enlarge
I'm pretty sure the whole chase was filmed at Pinewood, UK, so the 'Swiss' correctness of the plates was probably an afterthought since the whole thing was a night scene. The plates seen on the back of the Mercs look to be the wrong shape as well - more like 60's UK long ones instead of the squarer 'continental' type of the period.
So, the 180's are seen mostly at the start of the scene, chasing the DB5 Road Car (that's the one without side repeater lights, the real FMP 7B from the 2010 auction). To the end, only the Gadget Car (the real BMT 216A) and the 190 (and grey 220) are seen. I think the shots with the Road Car and the 180's were filmed in Switzerland near the Pilatus factory, and the shots with the 190 chasing the Gadget Car were made in Pinewood. I don't know for sure, however.
I am certain that not many Diesels were sold that weren't used as taxis. But this was mainly in Germany, certainly not the wealthy Switzerland (which used far more luxurious cars as taxis; there is a 1957 Swiss film, "Taxichauffeur Bänz", were mostly American cars are seen as Zurich taxis), and obviously not England with their standardized Austin taxicabs. The most common and cheapest Mercedes to get for the film would be gasoline powered as the taxis were driven as long as possible, with some still around in the early '70s and millions of miles on one engine.
You're dead right about there being many more 190's than I think either of us initially thought (yes, I watched the chase AGAIN...I'd like to watch another film now, lol!). Again I'm brought to the conclusion of a black 220S right when we see the first zoom shot as well as when Oddjob opens the car door to get out. This is because there's chrome over the arches on the rear fenders in both cases. While we never see the front of either car (which would of course tell us instantly what we were looking at), again correct me if I'm wrong, but the 190's chrome did not extended to the rear fender arches...which leaves only the 220S as a possibility.
This is good information to know. If the scenes shot in Switzerland called for a 220S, it may very well have been a different color than the "British car". For example, we still don't know what car was driving around with its fog lights turned on in the smoke screen (and probably will never know since it jump cuts to a totally different car); you can barely see the silhouette. All we know is that its a Mercedes-Benz, really. It IS clear that whatever car Oddjob steps out of to play frisbee with Tilly Masterson's neck had fog lights, since we can JUST see one visible during the brief zoom on the door. Therefore, I think the car Oddjob steps out of and the car that drives through the smoke screen is the same car, at least.
Again, I'd heard EON was using 180D's, I'm not sure where the person (when I lived in NY, my neighbor across the street was a rabid James Bond fan) who told me got their info, but in defense of him, he could have either been right (which I'm beginning to find unlikely) or, alternately, conflated two different stories that involved famous Bond cars from two different films (which I DO find likely).
If he conflated two different stories, then the Checker Taxis used in LALD (there were more than one...check out the grille bars and you'll find that one has chipping chrome while another has it perfectly intact and has a less worn paint scheme, as well) WERE sold off and no longer in service. The Checkers DID have even longer service lives than the German cabs (they averaged about 30 years), but every once in a while, you'd get a car where there had been severe upholstery damage, got into a crash that wasn't particularly serious, or perhaps developed issues with rust (common on the earlier cars). These cars were sold, usually for either transportation museums (or private owners, including filmmakers...note that neither LALD cab in NYC has a valid "medallion" on the hood; this allowed a cab to be hailed) or back to the factory where they were either broken down for parts or alternately rebuilt and sold as airport limousines or even more taxis. The car Bond actually gets into, for example, has a Checker Marathon Sedan's upholstery, not the strip-down type of a New York City Checker Taxi that neither I nor my father (rode in Checker Marathons since they were introduced...and before that, the 1940's Checker design [of which Brooklin makes a superb model, by the way] and DeSoto Skyview [the only correct model I know of is Sun Models, which is a bit lacking in detail, but is the only one with a correct paint scheme and roof...Vitesse got their model BADLY wrong]) is familiar with.
Very true Jag, but then, neither was the Sunbeam Alpine in DN. As iconic as that car has become, the original intent was that they simply wanted to put Bond in a generic, British-made sport roadster. Likewise, look at how iconic the Leyland Sherpa telephone van driven by Jaws in TSWLM has become. Yet, there were continuity errors out the wazoo in the damage done to that. It was simply meant to be a "generic, beat up van". But it took on a different meaning. Felix's T-Bird from GF, which although it has the wrong tail lights in the collection, was really well-received, was more or less random and has two continuity errors (fender skirts and if you look REAL close, the tires). Should we chalk up these entries as "car-centric" as well, just because they were thought of as taking on a secondary role by the people making the film? After all, these were much earlier in the collection.
I guess they were either good hints that the collection would be becoming more and more car-centric, or perhaps they we put in as gap-fillers and their good reception made the publisher realise that they could extend the series practically indefinitely. In either case, I would have been perfectly happy if they had never appeared as part of this collection. I'm not criticising the models themselves, just the greed of the publisher, whose result is that more and more subscribers feel they have to drop out.
Jag, although the collection may have taken a downward turn, I don't think anyone regarded the Sunbeam Alpine, Leyland Sherpa, or Felix's Ford Thunderbird as gap-filler when they were released. Or, for that matter, when they appeared in the films. Very often an object (such as a car) in a film gains a cult following when the people making the film don't intend it that way. Take the Dodge Charger R/T in Bullitt. Although Steve McQueen's Mustang was obviously something the filmmakers wanted you to pay attention to, I believe the Charger was chosen by Bill Hickman because he liked how it handled. Yet, you just can't complete that scene without the Charger and I've seen many, many attempts to make a Code 3 out of an existing Charger to get the one that appeared in Bullitt.
But this raises an interesting question, too: what about things that the moviemakers clearly wanted us to pay attention to, yet we really didn't care? I'll take Bond as an example. In DAD, as product placement, Jinx (Halle Berry) drives a Ford Thunderbird. The airwaves in the US were PLASTERED with advertisements for that car, it got extra footage shot of it that was placed in the commercials, it was even thrown in the US trailer! The bottom line was that the filmmakers (as well as Ford) really, really wanted us to see and remember THAT car. But who remembers it particularly well? Without looking on IMCDB, do you even remember what shade of red it was? Now contrast this with the afterthought Sunbeam Alpine from DN that EON only featured as a "generic British sports car". Even the most ardent Bond-centric is not only going to be able to identify the Sunbeam Alpine (perhaps if not by name, then by sight), but they're going to be able to relate to it. Hey, that was James Bond's first car in the films! I admit my example is extreme on both ends, so let's tone it down.
What about the Tuk-Tuk Autorickshaw Taxi from OP vs. the afterthought 1964 Lincoln Continental in GF? Yes, afterthought. They could have given Auric Goldfinger just about any luxury car as "disposable" (they had given him a Rolls-Royce Phantom III as eye candy for any car enthusiasts of the time in the crowd, after all...and THAT was disposable!) and it would have fit his persona. The former was something that the people at EON obviously wanted us to remember. It popped a wheelie, it got chased by Jeeps and other Tuk-Tuks, it got a boatload of screen time, Vijay Armitraj was driving it, Roger Moore was shooting at the baddies out the back...and yet, it's one of the absolute cheapest JBCC models you can get on eBay. Now compare that to the black '64 Lincoln Continental. Oh, it gets screentime. And one of two henchmen drives it to shoot a guy whose name is likely memorable to every Star Wars fan who also watches Bond and nobody else. And no, it's not crushed. A '63 demonstrator with no engine in blue is crushed. Yet, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that more people can put together a mental picture of the Continental, or at the very least picture it more quickly. Even with its problematic trunk and lack of whitewall tires, the Continental sells considerably better on eBay, I'll tell you that!
Does that lower status, though...one film wanting you to remember the auto-rickshaw and another to remember a crushed continuity error...make the Continental a lesser entry in the JBCC than the Tuk-Tuk? Filler? I don't think so. And judging from eBay sales, I doubt many other people think so, either.
I hang around with car-centrics, so this will obviously be skewed, but the answer on my end is "everyone I know that saw DN and cares anything for cars".
Completely disagree. Along these lines, the '66 Toyopet Crown that chased Aki's Toyota 2000GT in YOLT would have had to have been its equal. After all, it was a duel and a rather long-lasting one. But which car chase and frankly what cars, level of trim not withstanding, is more memorable as a Bond car chase? The DB5 showing off its stuff for the first time with a bunch of nearly-identical 180's and 190's chasing it? Or a duel involving a car that one movie review I have mistakenly identified as a Dodge?
And for that matter, what about Ourumov's GAZ-31029 Volga in GE being chased by Bond's tank? He wouldn't have taken the tank and wreaked havoc if he wasn't after the Volga. While it's true they could have taken any Soviet or Russian car of that size or larger, the Volga moves the plot forward and gets plenty of screentime either knocking into civilians or crashing down an alleyway. How could something that moves the plot forward be "filler"?
A few people were trying to make them before the JBCC issue. There weren't any in 1/43. But again, this ties into Ourumov's Volga above. It doesn't ultimately matter what the car was. It had a heck of a role and moved the plot forward pretty significantly.
Problem here is that there were vehicles in the original 40 that frankly had no business being there. The Moke that appears for far less time than the Mercs comes to mind. So does the Triumph Stag and MGB that followed it. Ditto Jinx's T-Bird. The Ford GT40 that everyone thinks is probably the collection's worst entry was issue 39. Planned cars like the 220S, the Merc 450SEL, the '61 Chevy 1-Ton, the Merc 220D, the Scaldia-Volga, the Dodge M43 Ambulance, the '73 Chevy Bel Air, the Ford Ranch Wagon, and the Wales & Edwards Rangemaster milk float ALL had more important roles than these "pre-40" cars. Yet, aside from the Triumph Stag and GT40, we didn't hear the kind of "it's filler" we're hearing now about cars that were done then.
Further, and again I'd like your opinion on this, what about the Tuk-Tuk vs. the Engel Contintental and the New Ford Thunderbird vs. the Sunbeam Alpine? The former cars have been received poorly in the JBCC (with Jinx's T-Bird also receiving a terrible reception in real life as shameless product placement), but the latter have been received well. Again, if they're only filler (and they seem to be, per your logic), why? Why are people buying "filler" and liking it? I'm not trying to seem hostile, btw...I don't want to get into that again...I just want to make clear I'd like to know why you think this.
Now when you think about the Lotus Esprit and the DB5 on the one hand, and the Stag or the Tuk-Tuk on the other (by the way I liked both the Tuk-Tuk and the Moke), we may clearly see them as essential vs non-essential, but there are many more vehicles (both in and out of the current collection) that are somewhere in between. So there can never be an objective borderline. Some collectors will be happy with only 2-5 cars, others 40, and there will be some who will continue as subscribers indefinitely, regardless of how many releases there are. Which is why I find it so interesting to see other collectors' opinions here, and which is why I will never consider you or anyone else taking part in the discussion as "hostile". Well, perhaps if you start calling me names...
Incidently I liked the sherpa and think as a bond car it is more interesting than yet another aston in another pose. Likewise the Dragon Tank, Bondola (scale issues aside) are great additions to the collection. More of this kind of thing would be fantastic. GEFAbbri if you read this and value us your customers dont become complacent , more of us will - jump ship if you continue releasing follies. I am an optimist and hope these recent issues are fillers before the real gems return to the collection . Otherwise like i said please draw a line
I think you've expressed something here that I was trying to express to Jag, but wasn't quite sure how to. It was better than another Aston in another pose, wasn't it? Frankly, if we just got Aston-Martin after Aston-Martin after Aston-Martin in various poses (which are truly essential Bond cars), well...the collection would be pretty boring, would it not?
To which I say give them a chance with the Merc since it did briefly appear, even if the result of a continuity error. The Niva was well-modeled save the lack of bull bar and fog lights (plus a small logo on the hood that was literally not visible in the film). Likewise the VAZ-2106 Militsia car and Mercedes-Benz 220 RHD. I'm still convinced they're having legal issues of some kind considering the complete and total lack of depictions of even people in the background where they're actually going out of their way to edit people out (which actually costs more money than keeping them in).
Simply put, I could not imagine a Bond collection that claimed to be "essential" and was missing the Alpine. Sorry. Nor would I consider a 40-car Bond collection "essential" if it was missing the Sherpa.
Ha! Thanks! I've a horrific cold that's been allowing me approximately 4 hours of sleep a night, so if I seem a bit cranky, there's logical reason for it!
Now, with that said, what are your opinions on...
1) The Toyota 2000GT vs. the '66 Toyopet Crown (everyone, the JBCC included, called it the "Toyota Crown", but that's just plain wrong). Looking back, there are actually very few "duel" type car chases where only one car chases Bond in a given scene. In DN, we see it with the Sunbeam Alpine and La Salle/Miller Combination Coach Hearse. We technically see it in FRWL with Kerim's Roller and the Bulgars' Citroen Traction 11BL, but the chase is very brief. We see it in GF with only Oddjob's Lincoln Continental and Felix's T-Bird. In TB, there isn't one. In YOLT, we get it with the 2000GT and the Crown. In OHMSS, there isn't one.
-DAF? Nope.
-LALD? Technically Strutter's '73 Impala tailing Bond's Checker cab.
-TMWTGG? Scaramanga's AMC Matador Coupe vs. Bond's AMC Hornet X.
-TSWLM? Nope.
-MR? Nothing.
-FYEO? Nope, Bond never gets chased by one car.
-OP? Technically Orlov's Scaldia-Volga following Bond's Mercedes-Benz, but he can't follow him directly (as is made clear when his driver prepares to turn, he sees the Merc on rails, and practically does a doubletake before deadpanning "follow that car").
-AVTAK? Again, no.
-TLD? Nope.
-LTK? You could argue the VERY last of the two tanker trucks chasing one another, but it's part of a larger scene.
-GE? The "duel" returns in full force in GE with the DB5 vs. the Ferrari and the GAZ-31029 Volga vs. the tank (although he is chased himself, his clear objective is Ourumov's Volga).
-TND? Again, Bond is never chased by a single enemy car.
-TWINE? Nope.
-DAD? Vanish vs. Jaguar, plus the hovercraft vs. hovercraft of the PTS.
-CR? Bond is always chased by multiple cars.
-QoS? Again, Bond is consistently chased by multiple cars.
Therefore, there aren't many true duels in Bond movie history. Yet, most people want to complete at least one of the chase component cars that went after Bond.
Finally, and I'll restate this from my last post...
"Further, and again I'd like your opinion on this, what about the Tuk-Tuk vs. the Engel Contintental and the New Ford Thunderbird vs. the Sunbeam Alpine? The former cars have been received poorly in the JBCC (with Jinx's T-Bird also receiving a terrible reception in real life as shameless product placement), but the latter have been received well. BUT the former cars were ones that EON 'wanted' us to remember and less so the latter. Again, if they're only filler (and they seem to be, per your logic), why do people buy them and like them?"
Here's those first 40 releases again (UK sequence, France had some variations):
01 Aston Martin DB5 ~ GF
02 Aston Martin V12 Vanquish ~ DAD
03 Lotus Esprit "submarine" ~ TSWLM
04 BMW Z8 ~ TWINE
05 Citroen 2CV ~ FYEO
06 Jaguar XKR ~ DAD
07 Toyota 2000GT ~ YOLT
08 Lotus Esprit Turbo ~ FYEO
09 BMW Z3 ~ GE
10 Ferrari F355 GTS ~ GE
11 Aston Martin DB5 ~ TB
12 Aston Martin DBS ~ OHMSS
13 Ford Mustang Mach 1 ~ DAF
14 Aston Martin V8 Vantage ~ TLD
15 BMW 750iL ~ TND
16 Lotus Esprit ~ TSWLM
17 Sunbeam Alpine ~ DN
18 Triumph Stag ~ DAF
19 MGB Roadster ~ TMWTGG
20 Aston Martin DBS ~ CR
21 Mercury Cougar ~ OHMSS
22 Corvorado ~ LALD
23 Mercedes-Benz 250SE ~ OP
24 Mini Moke ~ LALD
25 Aston Martin DB5 ~ GF
26 Lada 1500 [Police] ~ TLD
27 Ford Thunderbird ~ DAD
28 AMC Hornet ~ TMWTGG
29 Tuk Tuk ~ OP
30 Ford Mustang Convertible (soft-top) ~ TB
31 Moon Buggy ~ DAF
32 Mercedes-Benz 600 ~ OHMSS
33 Chevrolet Bel Air ~ DN
34 Range Rover ~ TND
35 Ford Mustang Convertible (open-top) ~ GF
36 ZAZ-965A ~ GE
37 Chevrolet Corvette ~ AVTAK
38 Maserati BiTurbo ~ LTK
39 Lamborghini Diablo ~ DAD
40 Citroen Traction Avant ~ FRWL
3 x DB5, 2 x Esprit and 2 x Mustang Convertibles in that lot so some repetition early on (although fair variations between issues for the first two of those three).
Despite being a Ford fan myself, I reckon that the Thunderbird from DAD was a poor choice for an early model - I guess that if Minichamps hadn't already done this one in their JB series it would have come along much later in the JBCC.
It would be interesting to hear your opinions on when this collection first "jumped the shark"? For me the first dubious inclusion would have to be the MGB at Issue 19 - although I can see that it would have been a desirable choice for UH as they already had a 1/43 mould for that car from their own range.
Being a car-centric, my view on this would naturally be skewed, but earlier than you may think: Issue 18, the Triumph Stag. It's a VERY poor model of the Stag (as in, worse than the Austin FX4 or the Austin A55 Cambridge compared to their respective prototypes) though fortunately, Corgi Vanguards makes a superb model for the value in the same color...you might want to change out the headlights and license plates, but that's it), it didn't touch the display stand with all 4 wheels when UH WAS actually trying to sculpt decent display stands, you see plenty on eBay going for next to nothing, and its appearance was certainly far more brief than not only Ixo's "car-centric" models between 90 and 113 and now the Lada Niva (although it did get more screen time than the ZIL-117, that gets a pass from me simply because it was masterfully done and even had there been dioramas allowed, there are no figures allowed in Daniel Craig films until his EON contract expires, remember?), but also, naturally, a great many wonderful UH models between 40 and 80.
To be honest, I'm sure you can say the series has jumped the shark. Individual issues have jumped the shark, of course, but what if Fabbri really isn't allowed to use likenesses (or the price to use them went through the roof and would double the price of the cars...one or the other) as I strongly suspect is the case? After all, Fabbri was literally bankrupted and bought out by another company. They might not have the money to continue using likenesses. If only we had some transparency with them...some feedback here. If they flat-out admitted "we're not using likenesses because we got into a spat with UH who made lower-priced cars, we can't afford to pay Ixo and include figures/likenesses, and we don't think we could sell cars at 10.99 GBP with a marketing strategy shifting toward car-centrism" right here, on this forum, I'll bet more than a few of us would at least understand them, if not outright retract everything we've said about them.
I have to agree that Bond movies are not really about car duels. The Vanish vs Jaguar in DAD is one of the few exceptions, and as a result I’m sure we will all agree that the Jag is essential. Most other baddies cars are not, but some of us will have great interest in them nevertheless. That’s fine by me, it shows that we have different interest and fascinations. I can certainly live without the Toyopet Crown, I didn’t even know (and did not want to know) what the car was until Fabbri produced a model of it. On the other hand, always wanted the Citroen Traction Avant, but probably because I liked the car and not because it was so Bond movie-like.
FACT, in retrospect I recall that issue 11 already raised my suspicions. The GE Ferrari (issue 10) was really already borderline, but it was part of a humorous car “duel” and I didn’t mind it, but a second DB5 with plastic water cannons added seemed strange even back then. But it was very early on, and we had no idea there would be at least 130 models, so we were all more forgiving...
If you are both car and Bond-minded it’s easy to switch from one camp to the other when considering the JBCC models individually. I’m nuts about most Astons (apart from the Lagonda) and would happily sell certain relatives to own one. I love the ones seen in JB movies, so any Aston model is a definite must-have. However, I wouldn't dream of owning a real Lada or a Sherpa van, but can totally see their importance in the Bond movies, so wouldn't think of disrespecting them from that point of view. Funnily enough, although the consensus of opinion here seems to be that the collection has moved to the 'car-centric' side, I would argue that it's also now in the realm of the true Bond fan too. Only a true Bond fan would want totally obscure models simply because 'they're Bond' or the entire set regardless of number for the same reason. It says something that so many have waited however many years to get to issue 117, which is the other half to issue 25, the pair of them representing the most iconic Bond car chase ever.
In terms of the early ones, I think Fabbri dropped in more obscure cars for two reasons, firstly to get everyone to sign up for forty models that weren't in order of fame, so subscribers would need to stick with it to get the well-known ones if that's all they wanted. Secondly it tested the water regarding the less famous vehicles, in terms of customer reaction weighed up against extending the series with fewer famous cars included – why else would they do the LALD Moke instead of the much better known YOLT Moke?
For myself, I really liked the 'famous' ones but I'd seen most of them modelled before, albeit without dioramas, so the previously unseen models had just as much of a 'wow factor' for me - i.e the OHMSS Cougar, the Dragon Tank, the LD Land Rover, the MWTGG Matador, even the GF Ranchero (lousy model but it's a classic Goldfinger piece). Where I do have a problem is when it’s a vehicle I really don’t like from a Bond movie I don’t like (Tuk-Tuk, FX4 and Octopussy) then I can’t justify buying it either from a Bond point of view or as a car enthusiast.
And coming back to the Goldfinger chase (I mean, what else could one possibly do on the first warm, sunny sunday of the year other than watching GF in slow-mo
In that case, the packaging is wrong. I hate to sound crazy, but it is. The car is slated to be released as an Ixo PremiumX Diecast car using the exact same mould with different wheels and was in development prior to release by PCT, the company that owns Ixo (but not Universal Hobbies). Their product numbers will be PRD202 and PRD203 (one cream, one light blue). Those numbers were set aside for a Country Squire before the Bond model was ever released. Further, unscrew the car from its base and have a look at the font compared to both UH and Ixo. It's got Ixo's font. Also no gun barrel 007 logo on the case. The way in which it was held to the base was via a Phillips head screw driven through a black plastic retainer. Universal Hobbies, on almost all their models regardless of collection (and every model in the JBCC), uses a cube-shaped protrusion from the bottom of the car that fits into a little slot moulded into the bases. Finally, there's no "Universal Hobbies" or "UH" stamp on the plastic base. I know that last one isn't on all UH cars, but it's on many. The packing could simply be recycled or a misprint. I know for a fact that this is an Ixo car. However...
Nope. Mine has white text. Perhaps UH is doing the bases for some of the back issues?
I guess that could be the result of slight color blindness in low light on my part, sorry.
I agree with every word said here...including the part about owning a Lada.
Totally agree, I don't think it was until DAD that we got to see anything like an evenly matched 'duel' in terms of power, desirability of the two cars and weaponry(!). I think the one enduring factor that links all of the Bond movies up until the Craig ones is the humour of the car chases - either in the chase itself (quirky gadgets, outrageous manoeuvres etc) or the choice of vehicles (Alpine v hearse, 2CV v Peugeot, Lotus v helicopter). Once you get to QOS the mood is far more serious, the DBS/Alfa chase could almost have been in 'Bourne' or 'Heat'.
I don't know what Ford were thinking of there. I think that particular T-Bird was meant to echo the style of the 'Vegas' 57 Bird but just didn't get there somehow. There's a few of them floating around in the UK but they only seem to get looks of curiosity rather than green envy of the owner.
I wonder if it's a corrected shipment of some sort? Like IXO sent them out fully packaged but with the captions missing? If that was the case, maybe they were opened up, captions printed and re-sealed in unwanted UH containers by another packaging company. I know plenty of folks like to keep their JBCC models in the original transit packs, but EMFabbri would assume customers rip them open and throw them away, so 'UH' printed on them is probably not a problem as far as they're concerned. Either way, it could end up being a rarity.
If it was an Ixo car repackaged at UH's factory, it should have the same base and blister as the other UH issues. Could it be that UH is back in the game as a subcontractor, with Ixo making the moulds but not having the resources to produce all the releases itself? But then it also would have the old UH style base and blister?
Thinking about it, isn't issue 105 the first smaller, regular UH size box that IXO made? Weren't all the previous IXO issues prior to that one in the big long boxes? If that's the case, maybe IXO were sent a bunch of smaller UH packaging base cards to follow for style and wording but either accidently used them or copied them too precisely, including the UH details. Being Chinese, they may not have been aware of the mistake, any more than most Western people would do printing something in their language.
Me neither. But I'm sure someone will enlighten us!
Yes, they did...as a matter of fact, the Bronco introduced us to the now-roundly-hated "dirt road".
I doubt it. PCT's moulds have all been completely different than UH's, even with relation to cars totally unrelated to Bond. For example, the recently-released Franco-Romanian Oltcit Club had to actually have a mould developed for it by Ixo despite UH having already made a Citroen Axel 12 TRS, which was the rebadged version sold in the west. Same car, but the moulds are not even close. Likewise whenever Ixo releases a Renault 4, which UH did a whole partwork on. But there IS an easy way of telling regardless: the screwhead. It should be small, triangular, and painted black if it's UH. It should be larger, either black or unpainted, and have one of a Phillips head or a LARGE, UNPAINTED triangular head if Ixo (at least for this particular issue). After all, you can only subcontract so much. With that said, your model sounds like more of an oddity than anything else. I wouldn't take it out of the blister unless you felt sure you could somehow get it back in. I have a friend in the Ukraine who specializes in this; perhaps you'd want his advice?
Believe it or not...nope. Neither Ixo nor UH actually owns factories in China. Oxford Diecast and Tomy (Ebbro) are the only two I can think of that actually own their own factories. I do think PCT (i.e. Ixo) owns its own assembly line, but has to share it with Starline, Hongwell, Cararama, Welly, New Ray, Minichamps, and Kyosho that I know of.
They'd be packaged in a separate facility...if you look around eBay, you find a lot of factory rejects that are seemingly "missing" packing and only have the display stands. Thing is, they're just not done being packed. They were rejected before they could be packed. Being packed at a separate facility may mean sharing the packing with totally different brands than what I've mentioned.
An alternate theory I've been chewing on (so to speak) is that this particular car was made around when Issue 110 or Issue 111 was released. Since UH was not only making both models, but in succession, a type-setting error at the place of packing during this time period wouldn't be out of the question.
Either way, Jag has it right...I can't wait to see photos of this!
I've made no secret that my uncle works for Ford and he didn't like this car, either. When I asked what the inspiration was in terms of Ford Thunderbird generations, he responded rather sarcastically: "None of them. We just screwed up a '49 Buick."
I noted the oddity but thought nothing of it at the time. I have all three still in the outer wrapping but unfortunately I am 50km away from them for the rest of the week.
I wonder...was this during the period when Issue 110 and Issue 111 were released in the UK? I know you mention the copyright date being 2010, but does anyone have a UH model they got via back-order? Also, RW, what's your copyright date? And does anyone have a Ford Anglia "corrected" version still in the blister? I'm beginning to get an idea that we may have something like this that happened...
1) The cars' moulds were copyrighted. Simple enough.
2) Whoever happened to be making the British model at the time got their address slapped on the packing blister. After all, if you're going to provide up-to-date contact info (the French address was noted), it's much easier to just cut paste the whole thing save for the actual date, which might get you in legal trouble, than making out a completely new address. I'll tell you this...some of us may be Car-Centric or Bond-Centric, but the collection itself is Anglo-Centric. In other words, as goes the British collection, so follows everything else (the ONE exception to date has been in Brazil, where the MP Lafer got bumped way up), quite possibly including packaging.
Thus far, every Ixo car (Country Squire included) I've gotten has been "Ocean Metal Factory". It's one of the factories where PCT manufactures their cars. Sometimes they like avoiding using the name "Ixo", like I know with their early Russian issues, they would just put down "Premium CT" and with the Polish issues and Atlas DDR Nutzfahrzeuge, they put down "Ist", even though they're not technically Ist Models.