Although I believe you know the difference, I noticed some other people didn't quite catch it: the one featured in the JBCC is actually the pretty-radically-different 1959 Plymouth (fins and grille design are WAY off from "Christine"...you could actually convert a trashed Dinky Toys Plymouth Plaza into one, however, as THAT car is a '58 Plymouth).
As for your proposition on how to market a DB5, I think it would work, but not now. You have to let the economy recover significantly enough to start expanding the Vanguards line. Also, while I think a DB5 would be plausible, a Mach I would have to be "shoehorned in", if you know what I mean. Vanguards doesn't do many American cars and one frankly the subject of quite a bit of derision amongst Mustang fans (everyone I know who was a gearhead at the time the size changed calls it the "Ford Clydesdale") might not be a great starting point/hard sell. Combine this with the fact that Johnny Lightning (of all people) did a '71 Mustang Mach I in several different trims (one of which I have in Boss 351 trim) that failed to sell despite very good detailing for their abortive "Lightning 43" line and it's not a car I would attempt to market right now. This is the kind of car that a company like Neo flourishes on where they do a few hundred, let 'em sell slowly, keep the moulds, and then move on to do it a couple years later when the price goes up.
Although I believe you know the difference, I noticed some other people didn't quite catch it: the one featured in the JBCC is actually the pretty-radically-different 1959 Plymouth (fins and grille design are WAY off from "Christine"...you could actually convert a trashed Dinky Toys Plymouth Plaza into one, however, as THAT car is a '58 Plymouth).
As for your proposition on how to market a DB5, I think it would work, but not now. You have to let the economy recover significantly enough to start expanding the Vanguards line. Also, while I think a DB5 would be plausible, a Mach I would have to be "shoehorned in", if you know what I mean. Vanguards doesn't do many American cars and one frankly the subject of quite a bit of derision amongst Mustang fans (everyone I know who was a gearhead at the time the size changed calls it the "Ford Clydesdale") might not be a great starting point/hard sell. Combine this with the fact that Johnny Lightning (of all people) did a '71 Mustang Mach I in several different trims (one of which I have in Boss 351 trim) that failed to sell despite very good detailing for their abortive "Lightning 43" line and it's not a car I would attempt to market right now. This is the kind of car that a company like Neo flourishes on where they do a few hundred, let 'em sell slowly, keep the moulds, and then move on to do it a couple years later when the price goes up.
Re 'Christine', yes I know. What makes it more complicated is that the movie-makers used a Belvedere with the more aggressive sounding 'Fury' badging (for obvious reasons) so any 1.43 'Christine' special in a prospective '58 Plymouth range would have to be very 'special'. Having said that, the current Savoy still has all the sinister presence of the Belvedere/Fury, especially in black with whitewalls, so is a cracking model all the same. I ordered 2 of them yesterday.
I sometimes wonder if Corgi were put off the idea of making some classic US cars because of the 'muddy' response to Matchbox Dinky's special range years ago (I don't remember what the range was called but it included some great 70's muscle cars). These were very expensive for the time and only available by mail order or through specialist dealers only, so didn't do so well in the UK anyway. That is in contrast to Matchbox Dinky's regular range (pink Caddy, early Vette, Studebaker Golden Hawk etc) which still do quite well on eBay.
Another point I should add, getting back to the foibles of collectors, is that many end up being loyal to just one or maybe two brands. So even if a car has been made before by maybe several companies, some collectors won't buy it if it's not the brand they are loyal to. I think many would buy a DB5 by Vanguards (British Racing Green, championships livery, Bond, whatever) or Lotus, Mustang, simply because Vanguards haven't made them before.
But I do take your point about the sh*t state of the world economy. Maybe integrating movie cars more consistently into its finer Vanguards operation is something Hornby/Corgi could consider in the future. And perhaps introducing some 'in yer face' US 50's classics to go with their quaint little '50's British counterparts as well.
I sometimes wonder if Corgi were put off the idea of making some classic US cars because of the 'muddy' response to Matchbox Dinky's special range years ago (I don't remember what the range was called but it included some great 70's muscle cars). These were very expensive for the time and only available by mail order or through specialist dealers only, so didn't do so well in the UK anyway. That is in contrast to Matchbox Dinky's regular range (pink Caddy, early Vette, Studebaker Golden Hawk etc) which still do quite well on eBay.
Definitely possible. I'm looking for the Corvette from that range, btw, as it was the very first and also well-detailed.
Another point I should add, getting back to the foibles of collectors, is that many end up being loyal to just one or maybe two brands. So even if a car has been made before by maybe several companies, some collectors won't buy it if it's not the brand they are loyal to. I think many would buy a DB5 by Vanguards (British Racing Green, championships livery, Bond, whatever) or Lotus, Mustang, simply because Vanguards haven't made them before.
I MIGHT disagree with this, but only to a limited extent (and sign me up for a British Racing Green DB5!). The one thing about brand loyalty that I've learned as a model car collector is just how fickle it can be. My Dad was, after they started releasing good-quality cars, almost "lockstep loyal" to Solido (he also collected older Dinky and Corgi, but I mean in terms of stuff that was produced at the time). But as soon as cars of comparable quality started appearing (think Matchbox Dinky and Vitesse) and Solido just kept on making the same cars, he up and left them.
If indeed Vanguards makes a US car series, what I think they have to do is start out slow. They can't introduce cars done so often that they've become cliches on the one hand (think the 1957 Chevy Bel Air Two-Door Hardtop or 1970 Chevy Nova SS), but also can't introduce obscure models, either. They would also be wise to make four-door sedans...I literally have friends I've introduced to the Soviet GAZ-M21I Volga who use that as a sort of a substitute for an American car because the body was copied from the 1953 Ford Mainline.
They'd also be wise to tap into what I like to call the "noir market". If you're a film noir buff and you happen to like cars, you obviously go for the cars that appear in those films. As it happens, most of the film noir buffs I know (myself included, I should add) happen to really like the cars from that era. We're not a huge market, but we do consume a lot. "Noir cars" (think about 1936-1959, as many cars in film noir are used/have seen wear and tear...) like much of Brooklin's American range, some of Neo's 1950's American cars, and I'm expecting the Ixo PremiumX 1954 Pontiac Chieftain, are starting to become more and more in demand as film noir itself is popularized here in the US by the very popular channel Turner Classic Movies.
Finally, you have cars that are often done, but often done poorly. There's a reason why everyone thought Ixo was out of their ever-loving minds for doing a '65 Mustang but then having it fly off the shelves. The '65 Mustang has been done to death...but it was never really done well until the PremiumX Diecast model was released. So, if Vanguards reads this and puts out ten American cars, I would recommend to them...
1) 1940 Buick Super Eight Four-Door Sedan. Aside from being Bogie's car in The Maltese Falcon, the 1939 and 1940 Buicks are REALLY common in film noir in general. In real life, it was a common car that was well-liked, luxurious, and sporty. But right now, if you want one, your only option is Brooklin.
2) 1948 Ford Super Deluxe 8 Fordor Four-Door Sedan. This dominated film noir as a police car, both marked and unmarked. The '48 Ford with a flathead V8 was practically the Yellow Moke of film noir. Ixo actually DID make one of these...and each time it comes up for sale, it goes beyond $80-$90. You could get use out of this as a civilian car as well as a police car. But not a taxi.
3) 1948 DeSoto Skyview Taxi. The one and only NYC cab that native New Yorkers will actually buy. Note that Sun Models actually did do this car and despite crude sculpting, it sold extremely well. That prompted Vitesse to do one with a totally wrong paint scheme...which still sold well. Prospective modelmakers, do the paint scheme on the old Sun Models version. It's the correct version. It's difficult to think of ANY movie set in the early 1950's in which a DeSoto Skyview Taxi doesn't appear. In fact, we even see them appear in the first two Godfather films!
4) 1950 Plymouth Deluxe Four-Door Sedan. In a year when Chrysler had arguably their most beautiful cars of the 1950's, even the humble Plymouth Deluxe managed to look downright elegant. A favorite of filmmakers as a "random important car" because it looked neat and was relatively cheap.
5) 1954 Nash Ambassador Airflyte Four-Door Sedan. You can get use out of this as a taxi, police car (primarily...and in virtually any livery you want), and four-door sedan. The car's immediately noticeable streamlined looks have already endeared it to 1/18 scale modelers, despite the fact that SunStar is the company making them! So why not 1/43?
6) 1956 Chevrolet Bel Air Two-Door Hardtop. Tons and tons of 1955 and 1957 Chevys out there, literally to the point where the handsome 1956 design is considered neglected. Whenever Franklin Mint's '56 Nomad wagon is sold, it goes for a lot of money. So why not the much sportier Bel Air as a two-door model?
7) 1957 Mercury Montclair Two-Door Coupe. Sometimes considered a "proto-muscle car", the '57 Mercury Montclair had everything: aggressive looks, a macho engine, and an awesome selection of color schemes. Not surprisingly, the 1/18 scale iteration of the convertible sold REALLY well. So why not make either that or the frankly-nicer-looking coupe in 1/43?
8) 1957 Hudson Hornet Series 80 V8 Four-Door. Before we said goodbye to Hudson for good, we got one hell of a car: the Hornet Series 80. Available in a number of stunning colors, including triple-color paint schemes, the Hornet Series 80 V8 was one heck of a car in terms of performance. It was also sold outside the United States as a sport sedan in both Australia and South Africa. My late cousin Lionel bought one new in Cape Town in 1958 to replace his Austin Devon, and he said it was basically a pre-built hotrod capable of outperforming the Chevrolet Constantia and Chevrolet Kommando by a lot and even the vaunted Ford Fairmont (not the Fairmont GT) and the CKD Aussie Valiants. He had that car for a LONG time, although it's gone now, sadly. Since Vanguards can get away with making this one in both LHD and RHD variations, it's definitely one I'd expect to appeal to pretty much everyone.
9) 1959 Chevrolet Impala Two-Door Convertible. Because no matter how many Impalas I see, absolutely none will ever match this car until it's properly modeled.
10) 1963 1/2 Ford Galaxie 500XL Two-Door Sedan (with 427 SOHC "Cammer" engine). Simply put, for all the Chevelles, COPO Camaros, late model Shelby Mustangs, GTO's, and AMX's and any other muscle car you want to put out there, THIS car was more powerful. Of all the muscle cars, it was the king of the road. Maybe it didn't look mean, but the engine was something you might expect out of Bugatti rather than Ford. Capable of putting out 645 horsepower, it was THE most powerful engine installed in any 1960's American car, period. Extremely rare today, less than 200 were made. If I want to introduce a "badass" 1960's car, this is number one on my list. But I digress...
But I do take your point about the sh*t state of the world economy. Maybe integrating movie cars more consistently into its finer Vanguards operation is something Hornby/Corgi could consider in the future. And perhaps introducing some 'in yer face' US 50's classics to go with their quaint little '50's British counterparts as well.
You got my main point on the economy, which can be summed up in one sentence: "it can be done, but it can't be done now." I also think that the uptapped 1950's market should probably be the first one to tap into rather than the 1960's market because you would get serious interest from the US. I could of course make a top ten list of 1960's cars to do, but we'll see the forum's response to the one I made. )
Sorry to rain on the parade you are confusing corgi with a firm with money to invest and a sense of direction.
1:43 db5 they won't have royalties for that scale and there will be zero non-bond sales since everyone has one available cheap - hongwell,norev,ixo,universal hobbies etc the atlas editions is only about 4 pounds on ebay at the moment.
US cars no chance hornby paid too much for corgi in the first place and is disappointing the city. It lost money last quarter and has just invested in a new series of static railway trains. There are hardly any new cars and any they do have to be able to do them in standard and rally/emergency liveries. In addition even vanguard level of detail is not up to latest oxford models let alone Minichamps.
Choice of vehicles pretty good. I think a partwork of USA cars sold across Europe and other jbcc locations could run to 200 easily especially since us Web purchases would be huge.
Sorry to rain on the parade you are confusing corgi with a firm with money to invest and a sense of direction.
1:43 db5 they won't have royalties for that scale and there will be zero non-bond sales since everyone has one available cheap - hongwell,norev,ixo,universal hobbies etc the atlas editions is only about 4 pounds on ebay at the moment.
US cars no chance hornby paid too much for corgi in the first place and is disappointing the city. It lost money last quarter and has just invested in a new series of static railway trains. There are hardly any new cars and any they do have to be able to do them in standard and rally/emergency liveries. In addition even vanguard level of detail is not up to latest oxford models let alone Minichamps.
I keep saying there's nothing but oblivion for our little band of collectors once the JBCC finishes
maz...ouch. Well, point taken. I can only hope Ixo takes up some of my suggestions for their PremiumX Diecast range, in that case, since they HAVE realized that 1940's-1950's American cars generate money. I agree, by the way: a 1940's-1973 American car partwork WOULD sell in Europe and you'd get tons of secondary market sales to the US. Since Ixo would probably handle the thing via DeAgostini or Altaya, it would also be pretty affordable. They could also get away with re-using moulds in a positive manner...since you'd need an NYPD '48 Ford, a Chicago PD '48 Ford, an FDNY Fire Chief's '48 Ford, an unmarked Chicago PD '48 Ford, and a regular sedan, and oh yes, one in right-hand drive for export to Australia. That's six right there from the same mould (note that I'd save the LAPD and SFPD liveries, plus a generic California unmarked police car livery as well as a sedan and a taxi for the 1954 Nash Ambassador Airflyte).
To get back on-topic, though, my dealer is currently saying he's gotten the FOURTH variation of when he's supposed to get his cars in stock (now he's being told the 200D AND the Savoy will be in stock on August 9). He flat out told me he doesn't have "the slightest idea what to believe now."
Thanks for the pics, MCF! Sure hope someone can restore those!
Dalko - coming up with a list of 10 American classics is a bit like showing a kid a sweet shop for the very first time and asking him what he'd like - EVERYTHING!!!! For some strange reason we are starved of US car models over here in the UK. We've got euro-cars and endless repeats of UK stalwarts coming out of our ears but US cars? Very few in 1.43 at least.
If any partwork outfit wanted to come up with a US series I'd be first in line. I'd be more than happy to sign up to a hundred if not more PROVIDED as you say, there isn't too much of the same old stuff brought out again such as the '57 Chevy Bel Air. Here's a list of 10 from the 50's I picked at random, no particular order:
51 Ford Country Squire
58 Chevy Bel Air Sport Sedan
51 Buick Model 52
58 Plymouth Belvedere/Fury (Christine)
57 Dodge Custom Royale
58 Crown Imperial
50 Chrysler Town & Country Newport
51 Pontiac 8 Convertible
59 Chevy Impala
58 Edsel (yeh, so bad!)
Regarding Corgi. They have very clear product direction/focus in their aviation and trucks series, if they can apply that to their car ranges I reckon they could up their game considerably. Stop messing about with 1.36 and concentrate on a 'Vanguards' level of quality applied to a centralised 1.43 range. No more 1.36 or 1.43 'toys'. That way they could pull in a far more loyal aviation/trucks type following away from those who see them as just one amongst several ‘low-key’ manufacturers to pick and choose from. In my opinion their current Vanguards standards of sculpting and detailing ARE on the same level as Minichamps, if not better in many cases - I cite the recent Capri 280 as an example. Don't forget most Minichamps, Norev, whatever, are left hand drive and quite often turned out in bland/sickly colours or are non-UK 'euro-spec' so don't always click so much with UK buyers as Vanguards do. Maybe Hornby/Corgi is cash-strapped at the moment, but hopefully that won't last forever. As and when the company recovers, perhaps they might want to think about fine-tuning their car/movie car ranges into the same great shape as their aviation and truck ranges.
51 Ford Country Squire
58 Chevy Bel Air Sport Sedan
51 Buick Model 52
58 Plymouth Belvedere/Fury (Christine)
57 Dodge Custom Royale
58 Crown Imperial
50 Chrysler Town & Country Newport
51 Pontiac 8 Convertible
59 Chevy Impala
58 Edsel (yeh, so bad!)
The '51 Ford Country Squire would be a neat choice. Believe it or not, had the Edsel never come along, the '51 Ford probably would have been remembered as Ford Motor Company's worst design of the 50's. The problem wasn't the body, but rather the grille. In an effort to distance themselves from Studebaker, Ford put "twin bullet noses" on the front of their cars. But, well, it didn't work. The '51 Ford grille was mocked endlessly for "having tits" (before a moderator gets me on that one, ask anyone on a classic Ford forum and that expression is NOT new). Ford went back to the single bullet nose design in 1952 and model automakers have never really visited the much-maligned '51 Ford. I'd say that would be a good choice.
I agree on the '58 Bel Air as a possible alternative to the '56. It was the first of the "big Chevys" that would last well into the early 1970's and almost made my list.
Regarding the 1951 Buick Riviera Model 52, that's a great selection! Four doors, sporty, and luxurious.
The '58 Fury, in addition to being Christine, was also what I like to call a "proto-muscle car" right alongside cars like the early Impala, Mercury Montclair, and the original Chrysler 300. Definitely make this one a two-door hardtop, since unfortunately, there's no such thing as a four-door Fury.
The 1957 Dodge Custom Royal could be done as either a two-door or in the rare four-door version, which featured the "pillarless hardtop" (i.e. no B-pillar). Performance was about the same, but one added bonus to making the two-door version is that it was exported to Australia (in limited amounts, but enough for Dodge to actually make up a brochure), adding the possibility of a right-hand drive version that might appeal to British collectors a bit more.
The '58 Imperial Crown? I'd make the Ghia limousine version. I believe that was one of a VERY few limousines to come straight from the factory with a performance-oriented engine (392 cid Hemi in this case)! Off-beat, but still very much an American luxury limo typical of the period in terms of looks.
I already have (and love) the 1/43 Franklin Mint '50 Chrysler Town and Country Newport, but I could definitely live with another; in fact, I'm a bit surprised why this car gets revisited as little as it does, especially when one considers the astronomical prices the Franklin Mint versions go for on eBay.
The 1951 Pontiac Chieftain Eight Deluxe Convertible Coupe is certainly a good choice...if you can remember the name! But seriously, it had an awesome, memorable-looking grille (as did the very similar '52 model) that was unfortunately gone in 1953. I've often wondered if the '51-'52 Pontiac grille inspired Ford's Canadian Meteor grilles since they had that distinctive v-shape with the logo.
'59 Chevy Impala? Was also on my list. Definitely the two-door convertible.
The '58 Edsel you'd have to specify a model. The Citation (especially) and Pacer have been done to death. The Bermuda and Villager wagons have been done by PMA/Minichamps. The only two '58 Edsels I think have been neglected are...
1) The 1958 Edsel Corsair Four-Door Pillarless Hardtop and...
2) The 1958 Edsel Roundup Two-Door Station Wagon (the rarest '58 Edsel).
I'd be fine with either one, though! Hopefully a model car maker in 1/43 is watching us. )
There you go then, that's 19 good choices to start a possible partwork to follow the JBCC (BTW I'd be happy with any Edsel as long as it has 'that' grille ) Would anybody else here sign up for an 'American Classics' partwork?
car-wise: yes pease!
moneywise: depends on the number.
I remember getting a dinky Corvette C1, copper-bronze coloured for me 6 or 7th birthday, still have it somewhere. it's reasonably undamaged as even then I thought it was a shame to play with such a beautiful car
Some unrelated good news from my JBCC dealer: he just got the 200D's that YESTERDAY he was told he was going to get on August 9 and he's now being told that they are speeding up along with the subscribers. Fun, eh?
The speeded-up JBCC deliveries are putting a vibrancy back into this collection - let's hope they maintain the pace!
Going back to Corgi, I believe they need to keep doing what they are currently doing - leave the 1950s to Oxford and concentrate on the more recent decades to catch the moving demographic. If the company really wanted to move product, though, they should push their promotional division more. Some of those orders are massive compared to runs for the collectors market - e.g. 65,000 Anglia vans for Hilti, 75,000 Morris Z vans for Howdens, etc. The margins would be lower, but those quantities have to more than compensate.
I doubt that venturing into the US market would work for Corgi. I regularly visit a US-based 1:43 scale forum and, while it is vibrant, it is obvious that this scale is a poor cousin to the 1:24 and 1:18 collector groups over there. The US models featured in the JBCC are very popular with those 1:43 collectors, but this group seems to number in the 10s rather than in the 100s.
I stick to 1:43 so have no real interest in Corgi's other scales, but I do really think it's time for that 1:36 Mini mould to be retired - never mind things like where the hinges are, whenever did you see a Mini with a front shaped like that mould's??
Thanks for the heads-up on the Mercedes "bakkie", DB110. I've yet to buy my first resin model but every time I visit Neo's website I see something to tempt me. It won't be that PremiumX pickup, though, as I've moved away from that era in my collecting. Looks to be a great model, though. The "GP" suffix in the modern South African licence plates stands for Gauteng Province (aka Gangsters Paradise!) and the part at the beginning is a sequential combination from BBB001 to ZZZ999. They have already used up those 4 million-odd combinations in that province and from last year their plates are now BB99BB*GP in format.
There was talk last year that EON would shoot part of SF in Cape Town (where I'm from - FACT being the local airport code) and we were very disappointed when that fell through. It would have been great to have something local as a potential for this collection
I suppose the Canadians felt the same when Toronto was also touted as a location and then dropped.
I regularly visit a US-based 1:43 scale forum and, while it is vibrant, it is obvious that this scale is a poor cousin to the 1:24 and 1:18 collector groups over there. The US models featured in the JBCC are very popular with those 1:43 collectors, but this group seems to number in the 10s rather than in the 100s.
I'm going to quibble here, but only because the people buying 1/43 in the US are, how shall I put this, "not of the computer savvy generation" by and large and almost excusively on or over the age of 50. The reason why you have so many 1950's and 1960's US cars and next to zero 1980's US cars (plus so comparatively few cars from after 1974 or so) even from those companies interested in venturing into this market is because the people that grew up with these cars are the ones buying them.
I'm an exception in the extreme...I'm in my 20's, actually...but I would say by and large, my friends in the hobby are in their 40's at the youngest. Many are in their late 60's and early 70's and generally stay off the computer. They're a significant buying demographic (as Neo, Brooklin, and Ixo have all learned), but they don't really make their presence known online. If you go back to said forum and ask said forumites how many retirees they know that barely go online but collect quite a bit, I guarantee you'll find a great many that say they know a diehard collector who doesn't really use any kind of forum not because he doesn't want to, but rather because he's not particularly computer literate. My father is a HUGE Dinky and early Corgi collector in his late 60's and has never once visited an online forum despite occassionally selling parts and cars; likewise a number of the Dinky parts guys I know that also collect 1/43 and are of similar age.
I don't think there's any realistic way you could have drawn the conclusion of such a large "offline" demographic without knowing someone in person, though, which is why I think Ixo and Neo (especially those two) are getting on it, but getting on it comparatively "late to the game".
The "GP" suffix in the modern South African licence plates stands for Gauteng Province (aka Gangsters Paradise!) and the part at the beginning is a sequential combination from BBB001 to ZZZ999. They have already used up those 4 million-odd combinations in that province and from last year their plates are now BB99BB*GP in format.
Sorry about that! Not quite up on the new system, as my last relatives living in South Africa moved out in 1990, though I do know the Union and Republic plates from before then pretty well. Most of my relatives either lived in the Cape Province (in or around Cape Town, so yes, I am familiar with the area!) or in the Orange Free State province in Bloemfontein. Either way, I've been told about the "drying out" effect the climate had on the look of car bodies even over 10-15 years, so yeah, the 180D in white would have to be a restoration. If you've moved on from the 1950's, are you at all collecting the 1970's? I've got a cousin in Australia who buys up some of the Trax Models of Holdens and Fords and modifies them into (thus far) two Chevrolet Kommandos, he's working on a 1/24 Ford Fairmont GT, and I know he converted an XW Falcon Ute into a 1970 Ford Ranchero bakkie.
There was talk last year that EON would shoot part of SF in Cape Town (where I'm from - FACT being the local airport code) and we were very disappointed when that fell through. It would have been great to have something local as a potential for this collection
The next time you go to a car museum, I wonder if it's possible to determine if that 1957 Hudson Hornet my cousin bought still exists. He got it in Cape Town when it was a new car and it wasn't as if there was one in every driveway...just kinda thinking aloud, but I've always wondered (as have my cousins and cousins-in-law) what on earth happened to that car.
The speeded-up JBCC deliveries are putting a vibrancy back into this collection - let's hope they maintain the pace!
Let me change that around JUST slightly...
"The speeded-up JBCC deliveries are putting a vibrancy back into this collection - let's hope they maintain the pace and keep up their quality control!" )
That's very interesting on the subject of scales, I wonder if it's an age related thing rather than 'generation' related. (BTW, I had you down for much older Dalko!) From my own side of things, I was into regular 1.43 'toys' as a kid and didn't get back into die-cast until I was adult and got tempted by the bigger 1.18 scale E-types etc which were clearly models not toys. BUT, as time went on and space got more of an issue, the collection outgrew the display area so I switched back to 1.43. This ended up being a combination of buying mint copies of the toys I had and lost as a kid and also current models of the same size. Putting them all together in wall cabinets looked just right. I have since bought some select 1.18s but found it necessary to choose VERY carefully - JB DB5, Christine, Elite 66 Batmobile, Bullitt Mustang to name a few. (I also have a space-grabbing built up Monogram 1.8 scale '80 Trans Am, but that's another story) I'm just wondering how many younger collectors now, who are currently buying 1.24s, 1.18s etc, might find themselves switching to 1.43 in later years to make their collections more expansive.
The next time you go to a car museum, I wonder if it's possible to determine if that 1957 Hudson Hornet my cousin bought still exists. He got it in Cape Town when it was a new car and it wasn't as if there was one in every driveway...just kinda thinking aloud, but I've always wondered (as have my cousins and cousins-in-law) what on earth happened to that car.
You could try contacting these guys to see if they could track it down :
That's very interesting on the subject of scales, I wonder if it's an age related thing rather than 'generation' related.
Definitely possible, and I would even venture to say outright probable. I grew up with Dinkys and Corgis from Dad's collection, but only "graduated" to 1/43 from 1/48 (in other words, two near-interchangeable scales). Still, by the time I got into 1/43 scale models, there had been enough really nicely-made, detailed, non-toylike representations made that you could still call the car a "model" rather than a "toy". Since judging by the wording of you post, you're out of your 20's ( ) ), you likely would not have had that option and the only real models available for a remotely affordable price (in other words, not Brooklin) forced a switch in scale.
Still, I'd say that your gravitation toward 1/24 and 1/18 is VERY typical of people between the ages of 25 and 40. The real hope for 1/43 scale in general, if you ask me, comes in the generation after mine. I HAVE been seeing a number of recent cars modeled since 2005 in 1/43 scale, pretty much regardless of country, that do sell well here. On the other hand, that could simply mean that the new generation accepts a form of (for complete lack of a better term) "hobby pluralism", in which multiple scales are collected. It wouldn't be unheard-of for a vehicle-collecting hobby, as there are MANY people I know that build both 1/48 scale and 1/72 scale model airplanes in more or less equal quantity. As a matter of fact, I AM one of those people. I suppose a lot depends on the individuals 4-5 years younger than I am who, in my interaction with them, don't really seem to enthusiastically prefer one scale over another (give 'em a couple years and they'll settle on one for financial reasons...).
I have since bought some select 1.18s but found it necessary to choose VERY carefully - JB DB5, Christine, Elite 66 Batmobile, Bullitt Mustang to name a few.
Likewise, I do this with certain Chinese model cars because very often, models are only made in one scale. I recently sold my 1/20 scale CA71 Dongfeng Jinlong sedan after finally finding one in 1/43 scale that cost me an arm and a leg. My next hope is to replace the 1/24 FAW Hongqi CA770TJ Parade Car with a 1/43 model and my 1/36 FAW Jiefang CA10B PLA Tanker Truck with an identical model in 1/43 scale. Other times, however, such as with the Jiefang CA30 (three-axle CA10), I can't afford to be picky simply because there's nothing analogous in 1/43 scale.
I'm just wondering how many younger collectors now, who are currently buying 1.24s, 1.18s etc, might find themselves switching to 1.43 in later years to make their collections more expansive.
I can't speak for the UK, obviously, but here, I'd say you'd probably get collectors from each coast eventually gravitating to 1/43 due to the rising cost of housing in the notheast and California as well as people introduced to 1/43 directly out of (or in) college with the economy the way it is. In addition, the coasts also generally dictate the hobby simply because that's where all the big distribution centers are and that's where the largest toy shows are. Even right now, you can generally get an Ixo 1/43 scale model for less than almost any good quality 1/18 scale model. There's less material involved. I doubt it will have much effect on the generation around 25-40, but once you start looking at both the older and the younger, 1/43 suddenly looks a lot better.
(BTW, I had you down for much older Dalko!)
Thanks very much! Prior to this, I told Sir Miles, Jag, and I believe Maz my age and got that same general sort of response. )
The next time you go to a car museum, I wonder if it's possible to determine if that 1957 Hudson Hornet my cousin bought still exists. He got it in Cape Town when it was a new car and it wasn't as if there was one in every driveway...just kinda thinking aloud, but I've always wondered (as have my cousins and cousins-in-law) what on earth happened to that car.
You could try contacting these guys to see if they could track it down :
Since judging by the wording of you post, you're out of your 20's
Just a bit. My kids are into their 20's now - neither collect model cars but they take a keen interest in whatever I buy or put in the cabinets. The sort of interest that says 'one day all of this will be ours!' (only joking)
The next time you go to a car museum, I wonder if it's possible to determine if that 1957 Hudson Hornet my cousin bought still exists. He got it in Cape Town when it was a new car and it wasn't as if there was one in every driveway...just kinda thinking aloud, but I've always wondered (as have my cousins and cousins-in-law) what on earth happened to that car.
DB110, the only motor museum in the Cape Town area is the excellent one at Franschhoek: http://www.fmm.co.za/
They have a '48 Hudson in their inventory but no '57 from what I can see.
Hopefully that car did end up in safe hands like this one: http://boostsa.co.za/blog/1957-hudson-hornet
An excellent web resource to bookmark is this website, which lists license plates of the world: http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/
Some of the new series of provincial plates in South Africa are quite colourful, including those used in the Free State province. Cape Town still uses the "old" system for now.
Modelling local variants of models isn't something I've attempted. My collecting focus is now more on the 1980s (the era when I got my drivers license and first car, etc) and there was less local variation in that era. I would like a Ford Bantam bakkie model at some stage, though - either the Escort Mk.3 based one or the Fiesta Mk.4 based one. Unfortunately at the moment I believe there is only Corgi's 1:36 Escort Van to act as donor, and that's not an accurate mould.
I get what you're saying about the US 1:43 collector base being older and offline - makes sense. Several of them regularly lament the days of regular shows & exhibitions, which the arrival of the internet has apparently negatively affected.
MCF, similar to you I was also attracted back into collecting model cars via 1:18 scale but then ran out of space, and went smaller. I have one rule - no toys - this is only broken if, like DB110 does, there is no alternative in the correct scale. But I haven't felt the tug of wanting my childhood cars again ... but there was one exception - I just had to have Kojak's Buick Regal, I did actually miss that one
FACT - I probably should have added that, like Dalko, I had a tidy little collection of playworn but very nice old Corgis and Dinkys as a child, including a first series Batmobile, all of which were lost in a house move - a desperately traumatic event for a ten year old petrol-head! Hence the opportunity taken many years later to get my collection back
That's a great set of cars at Franschhoek - it could be the basis of a future part-work just in itself -
Neo 70s and even early 80s cars are being bought by the prosperous us buyers because the retired actually owned them or friends did.
But 1/43 is still a minority scale in states and setting up distribution there is complex and expensive which is why corgi and oxford haven't ventured there formally. For some reason part works don't seem to exist either though de'agostini have been looking at us Web sales of tank models from their part work but that has gone quiet.
DB110, the only motor museum in the Cape Town area is the excellent one at Franschhoek: http://www.fmm.co.za/
They have a '48 Hudson in their inventory but no '57 from what I can see.
Hopefully that car did end up in safe hands like this one: http://boostsa.co.za/blog/1957-hudson-hornet
Awesome museum, and a nice car to boot (my bias is showing, of course...)! From the color photos I have of cousin Lionel's 1957 Hudson Hornet, it was white and very dark (wine?) red, with the white on top and the red on the bottom. Still, that is the Series 80 V8...that's an awfully close car to what he had. I guess it can't hurt to send him a note and ask if there are any junked examples he gets his spare parts from.
An excellent web resource to bookmark is this website, which lists license plates of the world: http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/
Some of the new series of provincial plates in South Africa are quite colourful, including those used in the Free State province. Cape Town still uses the "old" system for now.
Thanks again! With my penchant for altering license plates on models, I've basically been like a kid at a candy store saving some of the photos to re-size and use as decals later! Interesting that the Cape still uses the older plates.
Modelling local variants of models isn't something I've attempted. My collecting focus is now more on the 1980s (the era when I got my drivers license and first car, etc) and there was less local variation in that era. I would like a Ford Bantam bakkie model at some stage, though - either the Escort Mk.3 based one or the Fiesta Mk.4 based one. Unfortunately at the moment I believe there is only Corgi's 1:36 Escort Van to act as donor, and that's not an accurate mould.
My cousin is interested in taking on a PMA/Minichamps Borgward Isabella and converting it to right-hand drive (the "disposable car" he learned to drive on, which was falling apart at the time), but isn't sure how to recreate the dashboard. He's normally pretty good at his Code 3's, but has stated a couple times that he can't really do something THAT detailed on a resin model. FWIW, I'd love to see a Ford Cortina Mk. 5 bakkie and don't think that would be completely impossible, either (though it would require extensive rebuilding).
I get what you're saying about the US 1:43 collector base being older and offline - makes sense. Several of them regularly lament the days of regular shows & exhibitions, which the arrival of the internet has apparently negatively affected.
I would say their assessment of that is spot-on. Train shows still meet regularly because it's much more difficult over the internet to examine an older locomotive for flaws in terms of running. Toy shows in general have been hit hard, but the real loss is toy soldier shows. I remember when I was growing up 45 minutes from NYC, there was a HUGE toy soldier show at (I think) the Westchester County Center. You could get everything from Barclay to Britains to Marx. Totally gone thanks to the 'net. Model car shows are often amalgamated with train shows, which actually helps spread the hobby on one hand, but on the other, it shows you how badly the hobby was affected in the first place.
I probably should have added that, like Dalko, I had a tidy little collection of playworn but very nice old Corgis and Dinkys as a child, including a first series Batmobile, all of which were lost in a house move - a desperately traumatic event for a ten year old petrol-head!
OUCH! Like my Dad's 1950's baseball card collection being left in a basement, surviving the wrath of his mother, and then getting flooded/destroyed.
Neo 70s and even early 80s cars are being bought by the prosperous us buyers because the retired actually owned them or friends did.
Kind of. One thing that Neo seems to have done regarding the 1980's cars is made them almost exclusively Lincoln/Chrysler/Cadillac, or in other words, basically mostly luxury cars. There are a few exceptions (the AMC Pacer was, in the words of a friend of mine, "a collective impulse buy" since we ALL got one and then had no idea what to do with it! ) Likewise, I think they're selling the 1974 Ford Mustang II BECAUSE it was and is such a Mustang purist's bugaboo. You went from the Clydesdale to the Gussied-Up Pinto!), of course, but if any company can afford to do these, it's Neo, as they don't particularly make very many of any one car they sell.
But 1/43 is still a minority scale in states and setting up distribution there is complex and expensive which is why corgi and oxford haven't ventured there formally. For some reason part works don't seem to exist either though de'agostini have been looking at us Web sales of tank models from their part work but that has gone quiet.
The reason that DeAgostini has been linked to the US in the past...I'm convinced...is because they basically did the impossible: they got working (and profitable!) partworks in the former East Bloc, so they figure they can do it here. The problem though is that the partwork format just has never been popular in the US. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why, especially since you could opt out at any time. If it can work in Russia so well when I think it was Altaya that said it would be impossible, why can't it work here?
The reason that DeAgostini has been linked to the US in the past...I'm convinced...is because they basically did the impossible: they got working (and profitable!) partworks in the former East Bloc, so they figure they can do it here. The problem though is that the partwork format just has never been popular in the US. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why, especially since you could opt out at any time. If it can work in Russia so well when I think it was Altaya that said it would be impossible, why can't it work here?
I wondered at first whether it might be a matter of 'loss of interest' in the US over a partwork's long drawn out time span, but considering how popular monthly/bi-monthly comics are over there (the likes of DC, Marvel, Image etc) with similar time scales, it can't be that. Could it be that some states might be responsive to a subscription partwork whereas others might not? I'm guessing that a US subscription would have to offered to every state in the Union, whereas on this side of the Pond it can be offered to selected European countries most likely to buy into it.
Do US comic shop chains sell partwork issues on a regular basis as they do in the UK (Forbidden Planet)?
I'm 32, living in UK, and spent a lot of time in the USA (East Coast) between the ages of 7 and 17. I had the toy car bug from a very early age, as long as I can ever remember; my Dad is a big car fan but I have taken the enthusiasm to a greater level.
I had a lot of Matchbox / Corgi / HotWheels cars and kept most of them in pretty good condition even at an early age. This meant I was able to sell my 1:64 collection piece by piece on eBay over the last few years.
I spent a lot of time with my extremely generous and much-missed grandmother when my parents were in the USA and I was at school in the UK. Over a period, on our weekend shopping trips she bought me at the ages of I suppose 9-12 some of the 1:43 Dinky cars; the '56 Corvette in copper mentioned earlier in this thread, the '59 Cadillac in metallic red and also in pink, the MGB 4 cylinder in blue and in orange , the dark red MGB V8 , the Triumph Stag in white, the Jersey-registered E Type in green , the metallic blue Bentley Continental R Type and the Tucker Torpedo. I really liked the 1:43 scale, and while I maybe pushed them across a table, they were never damaged and appreciated for the models that they are. Needless to say, I still have all of them in my collection, apart from the Tucker which became slightly damaged, and which I have replaced with a Brooklin one in the same colour that I found on sale. So granny was instrumental in my move to 1:43.
At about the same time I got into collecting the World Class / Premiere much more highly detailed 1:64 Matchbox range of cars; even aged 9 the lack of printed detail mostly of lights on Matchbox cars and similar meant that I honed my limited modelling skills in painting lights on to these cars, to a pretty good standard - not one complaint when I sold them off years later. The World Class / Premiere cars had all this printed detail, and were also issued in accurate road car colours (ie, a single colour per car) rather than having all sorts of childish lettering like in the standard range of the time (I notice that the trend in 1:64 cars is now for good printed lighting detail and accurate road car colouring, so I think I was born 20 years too late).
My experience in the States was that 1:43 was indeed a niche scale. You could buy Maisto 1:24 and 1:18 cars in Toys R Us for peanuts and I bought loads of these; they always seemed to be 50% off an already low purchase price. Also the 1:18 Ertl Muscle Cars. I made a small profit on most of these when I came to sell them years later. Two stores on the East Coast sold good quality 1:43 cars, EWA in New Jersey and Exoticar in Massachusetts. EWA closed down a few years back and Exoticar is much more preoccupied with 1:18 now. In the 90s however they were my collecting lifeline, as well as St Martins Accessories in London, when I was in the UK.
eBay has changed my collecting life, as I can thin out my collection easily, and because I enjoy eBay anyway I quite often find bargains. There has been a lot of talk of selling in this post, but that's because my 1:43 buying has gone fairly crazy in the past few years, thanks to eBay. If a car is cheap but has high postage I will try and buy 10 or so models from the same buyer, bringing the average car+postage price right down. I have bought a lot of cars from other partworks for very good prices, eg the Norev concept cars, the better models from the Alfa Romeo and Lancia partworks (general rule - the older the car being modelled, the better the model - Alfa Romeo 6C and 8C Mille Miglia = brilliant models).
I have about 50 1:18 cars left and will probably reduce this further. I'll buy models of my own real cars past and present though, for example Renault Clio Williams and Lancia Delta integrale Evolution 2.
So for me, 1:43 all the way. I can't get to many swapmeets though I love them, so the obscure and the bargain have to be hunted out online for me.
I think we have been through a golden age, when Chinese production quality improved enormously, wages and production costs in China had not yet jumped as they have recently, and huge numbers of certain fairly obscure cars have been made (Pininfarina Ethos concept : £8.50 including post and packaging - I would have scraped much more money than this together to buy a model like this years ago).
Volga replaced and came on a universal hobbies/Fabbri card. Now has painted reflectors - albiet both at jaunty angles - and both rear mudflaps. I was told that 122/3 will be available in UK from database warehouse next week. Getting quite excited about the Plymouth!!
So for me, 1:43 all the way. I can't get to many swapmeets though I love them, so the obscure and the bargain have to be hunted out online for me.
Swapmeets/toyfairs are past their best, I think. I'm old enough to remember swapmeets before eBay really kicked in, and they were very different then. Pricing obsolete Corgi and Dinky was totally up in the air, sure there were price guides available but they couldn't be taken ultra-seriously. I mentioned some time back that I picked up a mint boxed Bond OHMSS Mustang for a few pounds, when it was easily worth £50 plus. That was down to the ignorance of the dealer, but I'm sure for every customer who picked up a bargain, there were 3 or 4 who got ripped off, because they weren't that clued up either. Nowadays both dealer and customer can stand either side of said obsolete toy/model and check its worth on eBay's 'completed listings' using a mobile.
Also since eBay, many top UK dealers moved to internet trading which took away the best stock from the swapmeets.
I very rarely go to a toyfair/swapmeet these days, since I was lucky enough to pick up most of the obsoletes I wanted some years ago, but those I have been to recently seem to be about brand new models or bric-a-brac junk for the most part. Great for buying current stuff maybe cheaper than online, but not so great for mint old stuff going cheap. It seems weird getting nostalgic about events that were all about nostalgia.
Maz - I rang Database to order my Savoys on Fri 20th and was told they had no stock, and was advised to ring back in two weeks. I ignored that and rang them back on the 23rd to try and speak to another operative (which I did) who told me there were plenty in stock and took the order. It seems to be a matter of who you speak to and how helpful they are feeling - I'd try calling them a few times.
Comments
Although I believe you know the difference, I noticed some other people didn't quite catch it: the one featured in the JBCC is actually the pretty-radically-different 1959 Plymouth (fins and grille design are WAY off from "Christine"...you could actually convert a trashed Dinky Toys Plymouth Plaza into one, however, as THAT car is a '58 Plymouth).
As for your proposition on how to market a DB5, I think it would work, but not now. You have to let the economy recover significantly enough to start expanding the Vanguards line. Also, while I think a DB5 would be plausible, a Mach I would have to be "shoehorned in", if you know what I mean. Vanguards doesn't do many American cars and one frankly the subject of quite a bit of derision amongst Mustang fans (everyone I know who was a gearhead at the time the size changed calls it the "Ford Clydesdale") might not be a great starting point/hard sell. Combine this with the fact that Johnny Lightning (of all people) did a '71 Mustang Mach I in several different trims (one of which I have in Boss 351 trim) that failed to sell despite very good detailing for their abortive "Lightning 43" line and it's not a car I would attempt to market right now. This is the kind of car that a company like Neo flourishes on where they do a few hundred, let 'em sell slowly, keep the moulds, and then move on to do it a couple years later when the price goes up.
Re 'Christine', yes I know. What makes it more complicated is that the movie-makers used a Belvedere with the more aggressive sounding 'Fury' badging (for obvious reasons) so any 1.43 'Christine' special in a prospective '58 Plymouth range would have to be very 'special'. Having said that, the current Savoy still has all the sinister presence of the Belvedere/Fury, especially in black with whitewalls, so is a cracking model all the same. I ordered 2 of them yesterday.
I sometimes wonder if Corgi were put off the idea of making some classic US cars because of the 'muddy' response to Matchbox Dinky's special range years ago (I don't remember what the range was called but it included some great 70's muscle cars). These were very expensive for the time and only available by mail order or through specialist dealers only, so didn't do so well in the UK anyway. That is in contrast to Matchbox Dinky's regular range (pink Caddy, early Vette, Studebaker Golden Hawk etc) which still do quite well on eBay.
Another point I should add, getting back to the foibles of collectors, is that many end up being loyal to just one or maybe two brands. So even if a car has been made before by maybe several companies, some collectors won't buy it if it's not the brand they are loyal to. I think many would buy a DB5 by Vanguards (British Racing Green, championships livery, Bond, whatever) or Lotus, Mustang, simply because Vanguards haven't made them before.
But I do take your point about the sh*t state of the world economy. Maybe integrating movie cars more consistently into its finer Vanguards operation is something Hornby/Corgi could consider in the future. And perhaps introducing some 'in yer face' US 50's classics to go with their quaint little '50's British counterparts as well.
Definitely possible. I'm looking for the Corvette from that range, btw, as it was the very first and also well-detailed.
I MIGHT disagree with this, but only to a limited extent (and sign me up for a British Racing Green DB5!). The one thing about brand loyalty that I've learned as a model car collector is just how fickle it can be. My Dad was, after they started releasing good-quality cars, almost "lockstep loyal" to Solido (he also collected older Dinky and Corgi, but I mean in terms of stuff that was produced at the time). But as soon as cars of comparable quality started appearing (think Matchbox Dinky and Vitesse) and Solido just kept on making the same cars, he up and left them.
If indeed Vanguards makes a US car series, what I think they have to do is start out slow. They can't introduce cars done so often that they've become cliches on the one hand (think the 1957 Chevy Bel Air Two-Door Hardtop or 1970 Chevy Nova SS), but also can't introduce obscure models, either. They would also be wise to make four-door sedans...I literally have friends I've introduced to the Soviet GAZ-M21I Volga who use that as a sort of a substitute for an American car because the body was copied from the 1953 Ford Mainline.
They'd also be wise to tap into what I like to call the "noir market". If you're a film noir buff and you happen to like cars, you obviously go for the cars that appear in those films. As it happens, most of the film noir buffs I know (myself included, I should add) happen to really like the cars from that era. We're not a huge market, but we do consume a lot. "Noir cars" (think about 1936-1959, as many cars in film noir are used/have seen wear and tear...) like much of Brooklin's American range, some of Neo's 1950's American cars, and I'm expecting the Ixo PremiumX 1954 Pontiac Chieftain, are starting to become more and more in demand as film noir itself is popularized here in the US by the very popular channel Turner Classic Movies.
Finally, you have cars that are often done, but often done poorly. There's a reason why everyone thought Ixo was out of their ever-loving minds for doing a '65 Mustang but then having it fly off the shelves. The '65 Mustang has been done to death...but it was never really done well until the PremiumX Diecast model was released. So, if Vanguards reads this and puts out ten American cars, I would recommend to them...
1) 1940 Buick Super Eight Four-Door Sedan. Aside from being Bogie's car in The Maltese Falcon, the 1939 and 1940 Buicks are REALLY common in film noir in general. In real life, it was a common car that was well-liked, luxurious, and sporty. But right now, if you want one, your only option is Brooklin.
2) 1948 Ford Super Deluxe 8 Fordor Four-Door Sedan. This dominated film noir as a police car, both marked and unmarked. The '48 Ford with a flathead V8 was practically the Yellow Moke of film noir. Ixo actually DID make one of these...and each time it comes up for sale, it goes beyond $80-$90. You could get use out of this as a civilian car as well as a police car. But not a taxi.
3) 1948 DeSoto Skyview Taxi. The one and only NYC cab that native New Yorkers will actually buy. Note that Sun Models actually did do this car and despite crude sculpting, it sold extremely well. That prompted Vitesse to do one with a totally wrong paint scheme...which still sold well. Prospective modelmakers, do the paint scheme on the old Sun Models version. It's the correct version. It's difficult to think of ANY movie set in the early 1950's in which a DeSoto Skyview Taxi doesn't appear. In fact, we even see them appear in the first two Godfather films!
4) 1950 Plymouth Deluxe Four-Door Sedan. In a year when Chrysler had arguably their most beautiful cars of the 1950's, even the humble Plymouth Deluxe managed to look downright elegant. A favorite of filmmakers as a "random important car" because it looked neat and was relatively cheap.
5) 1954 Nash Ambassador Airflyte Four-Door Sedan. You can get use out of this as a taxi, police car (primarily...and in virtually any livery you want), and four-door sedan. The car's immediately noticeable streamlined looks have already endeared it to 1/18 scale modelers, despite the fact that SunStar is the company making them! So why not 1/43?
6) 1956 Chevrolet Bel Air Two-Door Hardtop. Tons and tons of 1955 and 1957 Chevys out there, literally to the point where the handsome 1956 design is considered neglected. Whenever Franklin Mint's '56 Nomad wagon is sold, it goes for a lot of money. So why not the much sportier Bel Air as a two-door model?
7) 1957 Mercury Montclair Two-Door Coupe. Sometimes considered a "proto-muscle car", the '57 Mercury Montclair had everything: aggressive looks, a macho engine, and an awesome selection of color schemes. Not surprisingly, the 1/18 scale iteration of the convertible sold REALLY well. So why not make either that or the frankly-nicer-looking coupe in 1/43?
8) 1957 Hudson Hornet Series 80 V8 Four-Door. Before we said goodbye to Hudson for good, we got one hell of a car: the Hornet Series 80. Available in a number of stunning colors, including triple-color paint schemes, the Hornet Series 80 V8 was one heck of a car in terms of performance. It was also sold outside the United States as a sport sedan in both Australia and South Africa. My late cousin Lionel bought one new in Cape Town in 1958 to replace his Austin Devon, and he said it was basically a pre-built hotrod capable of outperforming the Chevrolet Constantia and Chevrolet Kommando by a lot and even the vaunted Ford Fairmont (not the Fairmont GT) and the CKD Aussie Valiants. He had that car for a LONG time, although it's gone now, sadly. Since Vanguards can get away with making this one in both LHD and RHD variations, it's definitely one I'd expect to appeal to pretty much everyone.
9) 1959 Chevrolet Impala Two-Door Convertible. Because no matter how many Impalas I see, absolutely none will ever match this car until it's properly modeled.
10) 1963 1/2 Ford Galaxie 500XL Two-Door Sedan (with 427 SOHC "Cammer" engine). Simply put, for all the Chevelles, COPO Camaros, late model Shelby Mustangs, GTO's, and AMX's and any other muscle car you want to put out there, THIS car was more powerful. Of all the muscle cars, it was the king of the road. Maybe it didn't look mean, but the engine was something you might expect out of Bugatti rather than Ford. Capable of putting out 645 horsepower, it was THE most powerful engine installed in any 1960's American car, period. Extremely rare today, less than 200 were made. If I want to introduce a "badass" 1960's car, this is number one on my list. But I digress...
You got my main point on the economy, which can be summed up in one sentence: "it can be done, but it can't be done now." I also think that the uptapped 1950's market should probably be the first one to tap into rather than the 1960's market because you would get serious interest from the US. I could of course make a top ten list of 1960's cars to do, but we'll see the forum's response to the one I made.
1:43 db5 they won't have royalties for that scale and there will be zero non-bond sales since everyone has one available cheap - hongwell,norev,ixo,universal hobbies etc the atlas editions is only about 4 pounds on ebay at the moment.
US cars no chance hornby paid too much for corgi in the first place and is disappointing the city. It lost money last quarter and has just invested in a new series of static railway trains. There are hardly any new cars and any they do have to be able to do them in standard and rally/emergency liveries. In addition even vanguard level of detail is not up to latest oxford models let alone Minichamps.
Choice of vehicles pretty good. I think a partwork of USA cars sold across Europe and other jbcc locations could run to 200 easily especially since us Web purchases would be huge.
I keep saying there's nothing but oblivion for our little band of collectors once the JBCC finishes
http://carphotos.oldride.com/698689360.html
Enjoy.
To get back on-topic, though, my dealer is currently saying he's gotten the FOURTH variation of when he's supposed to get his cars in stock (now he's being told the 200D AND the Savoy will be in stock on August 9). He flat out told me he doesn't have "the slightest idea what to believe now."
Thanks for the pics, MCF! Sure hope someone can restore those!
If any partwork outfit wanted to come up with a US series I'd be first in line. I'd be more than happy to sign up to a hundred if not more PROVIDED as you say, there isn't too much of the same old stuff brought out again such as the '57 Chevy Bel Air. Here's a list of 10 from the 50's I picked at random, no particular order:
51 Ford Country Squire
58 Chevy Bel Air Sport Sedan
51 Buick Model 52
58 Plymouth Belvedere/Fury (Christine)
57 Dodge Custom Royale
58 Crown Imperial
50 Chrysler Town & Country Newport
51 Pontiac 8 Convertible
59 Chevy Impala
58 Edsel (yeh, so bad!)
The '51 Ford Country Squire would be a neat choice. Believe it or not, had the Edsel never come along, the '51 Ford probably would have been remembered as Ford Motor Company's worst design of the 50's. The problem wasn't the body, but rather the grille. In an effort to distance themselves from Studebaker, Ford put "twin bullet noses" on the front of their cars. But, well, it didn't work. The '51 Ford grille was mocked endlessly for "having tits" (before a moderator gets me on that one, ask anyone on a classic Ford forum and that expression is NOT new). Ford went back to the single bullet nose design in 1952 and model automakers have never really visited the much-maligned '51 Ford. I'd say that would be a good choice.
I agree on the '58 Bel Air as a possible alternative to the '56. It was the first of the "big Chevys" that would last well into the early 1970's and almost made my list.
Regarding the 1951 Buick Riviera Model 52, that's a great selection! Four doors, sporty, and luxurious.
The '58 Fury, in addition to being Christine, was also what I like to call a "proto-muscle car" right alongside cars like the early Impala, Mercury Montclair, and the original Chrysler 300. Definitely make this one a two-door hardtop, since unfortunately, there's no such thing as a four-door Fury.
The 1957 Dodge Custom Royal could be done as either a two-door or in the rare four-door version, which featured the "pillarless hardtop" (i.e. no B-pillar). Performance was about the same, but one added bonus to making the two-door version is that it was exported to Australia (in limited amounts, but enough for Dodge to actually make up a brochure), adding the possibility of a right-hand drive version that might appeal to British collectors a bit more.
The '58 Imperial Crown? I'd make the Ghia limousine version. I believe that was one of a VERY few limousines to come straight from the factory with a performance-oriented engine (392 cid Hemi in this case)! Off-beat, but still very much an American luxury limo typical of the period in terms of looks.
I already have (and love) the 1/43 Franklin Mint '50 Chrysler Town and Country Newport, but I could definitely live with another; in fact, I'm a bit surprised why this car gets revisited as little as it does, especially when one considers the astronomical prices the Franklin Mint versions go for on eBay.
The 1951 Pontiac Chieftain Eight Deluxe Convertible Coupe is certainly a good choice...if you can remember the name!
'59 Chevy Impala? Was also on my list. Definitely the two-door convertible.
The '58 Edsel you'd have to specify a model. The Citation (especially) and Pacer have been done to death. The Bermuda and Villager wagons have been done by PMA/Minichamps. The only two '58 Edsels I think have been neglected are...
1) The 1958 Edsel Corsair Four-Door Pillarless Hardtop and...
2) The 1958 Edsel Roundup Two-Door Station Wagon (the rarest '58 Edsel).
I'd be fine with either one, though! Hopefully a model car maker in 1/43 is watching us.
moneywise: depends on the number.
I remember getting a dinky Corvette C1, copper-bronze coloured for me 6 or 7th birthday, still have it somewhere. it's reasonably undamaged as even then I thought it was a shame to play with such a beautiful car
Well, if it's the same guys that gave us the JBCC, they would say 40 maximum................ :v
Going back to Corgi, I believe they need to keep doing what they are currently doing - leave the 1950s to Oxford and concentrate on the more recent decades to catch the moving demographic. If the company really wanted to move product, though, they should push their promotional division more. Some of those orders are massive compared to runs for the collectors market - e.g. 65,000 Anglia vans for Hilti, 75,000 Morris Z vans for Howdens, etc. The margins would be lower, but those quantities have to more than compensate.
I doubt that venturing into the US market would work for Corgi. I regularly visit a US-based 1:43 scale forum and, while it is vibrant, it is obvious that this scale is a poor cousin to the 1:24 and 1:18 collector groups over there. The US models featured in the JBCC are very popular with those 1:43 collectors, but this group seems to number in the 10s rather than in the 100s.
I stick to 1:43 so have no real interest in Corgi's other scales, but I do really think it's time for that 1:36 Mini mould to be retired - never mind things like where the hinges are, whenever did you see a Mini with a front shaped like that mould's??
Thanks for the heads-up on the Mercedes "bakkie", DB110. I've yet to buy my first resin model but every time I visit Neo's website I see something to tempt me. It won't be that PremiumX pickup, though, as I've moved away from that era in my collecting. Looks to be a great model, though. The "GP" suffix in the modern South African licence plates stands for Gauteng Province (aka Gangsters Paradise!) and the part at the beginning is a sequential combination from BBB001 to ZZZ999. They have already used up those 4 million-odd combinations in that province and from last year their plates are now BB99BB*GP in format.
There was talk last year that EON would shoot part of SF in Cape Town (where I'm from - FACT being the local airport code) and we were very disappointed when that fell through. It would have been great to have something local as a potential for this collection
I suppose the Canadians felt the same when Toronto was also touted as a location and then dropped.
I'm going to quibble here, but only because the people buying 1/43 in the US are, how shall I put this, "not of the computer savvy generation" by and large and almost excusively on or over the age of 50. The reason why you have so many 1950's and 1960's US cars and next to zero 1980's US cars (plus so comparatively few cars from after 1974 or so) even from those companies interested in venturing into this market is because the people that grew up with these cars are the ones buying them.
I'm an exception in the extreme...I'm in my 20's, actually...but I would say by and large, my friends in the hobby are in their 40's at the youngest. Many are in their late 60's and early 70's and generally stay off the computer. They're a significant buying demographic (as Neo, Brooklin, and Ixo have all learned), but they don't really make their presence known online. If you go back to said forum and ask said forumites how many retirees they know that barely go online but collect quite a bit, I guarantee you'll find a great many that say they know a diehard collector who doesn't really use any kind of forum not because he doesn't want to, but rather because he's not particularly computer literate. My father is a HUGE Dinky and early Corgi collector in his late 60's and has never once visited an online forum despite occassionally selling parts and cars; likewise a number of the Dinky parts guys I know that also collect 1/43 and are of similar age.
I don't think there's any realistic way you could have drawn the conclusion of such a large "offline" demographic without knowing someone in person, though, which is why I think Ixo and Neo (especially those two) are getting on it, but getting on it comparatively "late to the game".
Sorry about that! Not quite up on the new system, as my last relatives living in South Africa moved out in 1990, though I do know the Union and Republic plates from before then pretty well. Most of my relatives either lived in the Cape Province (in or around Cape Town, so yes, I am familiar with the area!) or in the Orange Free State province in Bloemfontein. Either way, I've been told about the "drying out" effect the climate had on the look of car bodies even over 10-15 years, so yeah, the 180D in white would have to be a restoration. If you've moved on from the 1950's, are you at all collecting the 1970's? I've got a cousin in Australia who buys up some of the Trax Models of Holdens and Fords and modifies them into (thus far) two Chevrolet Kommandos, he's working on a 1/24 Ford Fairmont GT, and I know he converted an XW Falcon Ute into a 1970 Ford Ranchero bakkie.
The next time you go to a car museum, I wonder if it's possible to determine if that 1957 Hudson Hornet my cousin bought still exists. He got it in Cape Town when it was a new car and it wasn't as if there was one in every driveway...just kinda thinking aloud, but I've always wondered (as have my cousins and cousins-in-law) what on earth happened to that car.
Let me change that around JUST slightly...
"The speeded-up JBCC deliveries are putting a vibrancy back into this collection - let's hope they maintain the pace and keep up their quality control!"
You could try contacting these guys to see if they could track it down :
http://www.dyna.co.za/cars.htm
Definitely possible, and I would even venture to say outright probable. I grew up with Dinkys and Corgis from Dad's collection, but only "graduated" to 1/43 from 1/48 (in other words, two near-interchangeable scales). Still, by the time I got into 1/43 scale models, there had been enough really nicely-made, detailed, non-toylike representations made that you could still call the car a "model" rather than a "toy". Since judging by the wording of you post, you're out of your 20's (
Still, I'd say that your gravitation toward 1/24 and 1/18 is VERY typical of people between the ages of 25 and 40. The real hope for 1/43 scale in general, if you ask me, comes in the generation after mine. I HAVE been seeing a number of recent cars modeled since 2005 in 1/43 scale, pretty much regardless of country, that do sell well here. On the other hand, that could simply mean that the new generation accepts a form of (for complete lack of a better term) "hobby pluralism", in which multiple scales are collected. It wouldn't be unheard-of for a vehicle-collecting hobby, as there are MANY people I know that build both 1/48 scale and 1/72 scale model airplanes in more or less equal quantity. As a matter of fact, I AM one of those people. I suppose a lot depends on the individuals 4-5 years younger than I am who, in my interaction with them, don't really seem to enthusiastically prefer one scale over another (give 'em a couple years and they'll settle on one for financial reasons...).
Likewise, I do this with certain Chinese model cars because very often, models are only made in one scale. I recently sold my 1/20 scale CA71 Dongfeng Jinlong sedan after finally finding one in 1/43 scale that cost me an arm and a leg. My next hope is to replace the 1/24 FAW Hongqi CA770TJ Parade Car with a 1/43 model and my 1/36 FAW Jiefang CA10B PLA Tanker Truck with an identical model in 1/43 scale. Other times, however, such as with the Jiefang CA30 (three-axle CA10), I can't afford to be picky simply because there's nothing analogous in 1/43 scale.
I can't speak for the UK, obviously, but here, I'd say you'd probably get collectors from each coast eventually gravitating to 1/43 due to the rising cost of housing in the notheast and California as well as people introduced to 1/43 directly out of (or in) college with the economy the way it is. In addition, the coasts also generally dictate the hobby simply because that's where all the big distribution centers are and that's where the largest toy shows are. Even right now, you can generally get an Ixo 1/43 scale model for less than almost any good quality 1/18 scale model. There's less material involved. I doubt it will have much effect on the generation around 25-40, but once you start looking at both the older and the younger, 1/43 suddenly looks a lot better.
Thanks very much!
Thanks very much! I'll give that a try!
Just a bit. My kids are into their 20's now - neither collect model cars but they take a keen interest in whatever I buy or put in the cabinets. The sort of interest that says 'one day all of this will be ours!' (only joking)
http://www.fmm.co.za/
They have a '48 Hudson in their inventory but no '57 from what I can see.
Hopefully that car did end up in safe hands like this one:
http://boostsa.co.za/blog/1957-hudson-hornet
An excellent web resource to bookmark is this website, which lists license plates of the world:
http://www.worldlicenseplates.com/
Some of the new series of provincial plates in South Africa are quite colourful, including those used in the Free State province. Cape Town still uses the "old" system for now.
Modelling local variants of models isn't something I've attempted. My collecting focus is now more on the 1980s (the era when I got my drivers license and first car, etc) and there was less local variation in that era. I would like a Ford Bantam bakkie model at some stage, though - either the Escort Mk.3 based one or the Fiesta Mk.4 based one. Unfortunately at the moment I believe there is only Corgi's 1:36 Escort Van to act as donor, and that's not an accurate mould.
I get what you're saying about the US 1:43 collector base being older and offline - makes sense. Several of them regularly lament the days of regular shows & exhibitions, which the arrival of the internet has apparently negatively affected.
MCF, similar to you I was also attracted back into collecting model cars via 1:18 scale but then ran out of space, and went smaller. I have one rule - no toys - this is only broken if, like DB110 does, there is no alternative in the correct scale. But I haven't felt the tug of wanting my childhood cars again ... but there was one exception - I just had to have Kojak's Buick Regal, I did actually miss that one
That's a great set of cars at Franschhoek - it could be the basis of a future part-work just in itself -
But 1/43 is still a minority scale in states and setting up distribution there is complex and expensive which is why corgi and oxford haven't ventured there formally. For some reason part works don't seem to exist either though de'agostini have been looking at us Web sales of tank models from their part work but that has gone quiet.
Awesome museum, and a nice car to boot (my bias is showing, of course...)! From the color photos I have of cousin Lionel's 1957 Hudson Hornet, it was white and very dark (wine?) red, with the white on top and the red on the bottom. Still, that is the Series 80 V8...that's an awfully close car to what he had. I guess it can't hurt to send him a note and ask if there are any junked examples he gets his spare parts from.
Thanks again! With my penchant for altering license plates on models, I've basically been like a kid at a candy store saving some of the photos to re-size and use as decals later! Interesting that the Cape still uses the older plates.
My cousin is interested in taking on a PMA/Minichamps Borgward Isabella and converting it to right-hand drive (the "disposable car" he learned to drive on, which was falling apart at the time), but isn't sure how to recreate the dashboard. He's normally pretty good at his Code 3's, but has stated a couple times that he can't really do something THAT detailed on a resin model. FWIW, I'd love to see a Ford Cortina Mk. 5 bakkie and don't think that would be completely impossible, either (though it would require extensive rebuilding).
I would say their assessment of that is spot-on. Train shows still meet regularly because it's much more difficult over the internet to examine an older locomotive for flaws in terms of running. Toy shows in general have been hit hard, but the real loss is toy soldier shows. I remember when I was growing up 45 minutes from NYC, there was a HUGE toy soldier show at (I think) the Westchester County Center. You could get everything from Barclay to Britains to Marx. Totally gone thanks to the 'net. Model car shows are often amalgamated with train shows, which actually helps spread the hobby on one hand, but on the other, it shows you how badly the hobby was affected in the first place.
OUCH! Like my Dad's 1950's baseball card collection being left in a basement, surviving the wrath of his mother, and then getting flooded/destroyed.
Kind of. One thing that Neo seems to have done regarding the 1980's cars is made them almost exclusively Lincoln/Chrysler/Cadillac, or in other words, basically mostly luxury cars. There are a few exceptions (the AMC Pacer was, in the words of a friend of mine, "a collective impulse buy" since we ALL got one and then had no idea what to do with it!
The reason that DeAgostini has been linked to the US in the past...I'm convinced...is because they basically did the impossible: they got working (and profitable!) partworks in the former East Bloc, so they figure they can do it here. The problem though is that the partwork format just has never been popular in the US. To be perfectly honest, I'm not sure why, especially since you could opt out at any time. If it can work in Russia so well when I think it was Altaya that said it would be impossible, why can't it work here?
I wondered at first whether it might be a matter of 'loss of interest' in the US over a partwork's long drawn out time span, but considering how popular monthly/bi-monthly comics are over there (the likes of DC, Marvel, Image etc) with similar time scales, it can't be that. Could it be that some states might be responsive to a subscription partwork whereas others might not? I'm guessing that a US subscription would have to offered to every state in the Union, whereas on this side of the Pond it can be offered to selected European countries most likely to buy into it.
Do US comic shop chains sell partwork issues on a regular basis as they do in the UK (Forbidden Planet)?
I'm 32, living in UK, and spent a lot of time in the USA (East Coast) between the ages of 7 and 17. I had the toy car bug from a very early age, as long as I can ever remember; my Dad is a big car fan but I have taken the enthusiasm to a greater level.
I had a lot of Matchbox / Corgi / HotWheels cars and kept most of them in pretty good condition even at an early age. This meant I was able to sell my 1:64 collection piece by piece on eBay over the last few years.
I spent a lot of time with my extremely generous and much-missed grandmother when my parents were in the USA and I was at school in the UK. Over a period, on our weekend shopping trips she bought me at the ages of I suppose 9-12 some of the 1:43 Dinky cars; the '56 Corvette in copper mentioned earlier in this thread, the '59 Cadillac in metallic red and also in pink, the MGB 4 cylinder in blue and in orange , the dark red MGB V8 , the Triumph Stag in white, the Jersey-registered E Type in green , the metallic blue Bentley Continental R Type and the Tucker Torpedo. I really liked the 1:43 scale, and while I maybe pushed them across a table, they were never damaged and appreciated for the models that they are. Needless to say, I still have all of them in my collection, apart from the Tucker which became slightly damaged, and which I have replaced with a Brooklin one in the same colour that I found on sale. So granny was instrumental in my move to 1:43.
At about the same time I got into collecting the World Class / Premiere much more highly detailed 1:64 Matchbox range of cars; even aged 9 the lack of printed detail mostly of lights on Matchbox cars and similar meant that I honed my limited modelling skills in painting lights on to these cars, to a pretty good standard - not one complaint when I sold them off years later. The World Class / Premiere cars had all this printed detail, and were also issued in accurate road car colours (ie, a single colour per car) rather than having all sorts of childish lettering like in the standard range of the time (I notice that the trend in 1:64 cars is now for good printed lighting detail and accurate road car colouring, so I think I was born 20 years too late).
My experience in the States was that 1:43 was indeed a niche scale. You could buy Maisto 1:24 and 1:18 cars in Toys R Us for peanuts and I bought loads of these; they always seemed to be 50% off an already low purchase price. Also the 1:18 Ertl Muscle Cars. I made a small profit on most of these when I came to sell them years later. Two stores on the East Coast sold good quality 1:43 cars, EWA in New Jersey and Exoticar in Massachusetts. EWA closed down a few years back and Exoticar is much more preoccupied with 1:18 now. In the 90s however they were my collecting lifeline, as well as St Martins Accessories in London, when I was in the UK.
eBay has changed my collecting life, as I can thin out my collection easily, and because I enjoy eBay anyway I quite often find bargains. There has been a lot of talk of selling in this post, but that's because my 1:43 buying has gone fairly crazy in the past few years, thanks to eBay. If a car is cheap but has high postage I will try and buy 10 or so models from the same buyer, bringing the average car+postage price right down. I have bought a lot of cars from other partworks for very good prices, eg the Norev concept cars, the better models from the Alfa Romeo and Lancia partworks (general rule - the older the car being modelled, the better the model - Alfa Romeo 6C and 8C Mille Miglia = brilliant models).
I have about 50 1:18 cars left and will probably reduce this further. I'll buy models of my own real cars past and present though, for example Renault Clio Williams and Lancia Delta integrale Evolution 2.
So for me, 1:43 all the way. I can't get to many swapmeets though I love them, so the obscure and the bargain have to be hunted out online for me.
I think we have been through a golden age, when Chinese production quality improved enormously, wages and production costs in China had not yet jumped as they have recently, and huge numbers of certain fairly obscure cars have been made (Pininfarina Ethos concept : £8.50 including post and packaging - I would have scraped much more money than this together to buy a model like this years ago).
Ramble over. Happy collecting.
Swapmeets/toyfairs are past their best, I think. I'm old enough to remember swapmeets before eBay really kicked in, and they were very different then. Pricing obsolete Corgi and Dinky was totally up in the air, sure there were price guides available but they couldn't be taken ultra-seriously. I mentioned some time back that I picked up a mint boxed Bond OHMSS Mustang for a few pounds, when it was easily worth £50 plus. That was down to the ignorance of the dealer, but I'm sure for every customer who picked up a bargain, there were 3 or 4 who got ripped off, because they weren't that clued up either. Nowadays both dealer and customer can stand either side of said obsolete toy/model and check its worth on eBay's 'completed listings' using a mobile.
Also since eBay, many top UK dealers moved to internet trading which took away the best stock from the swapmeets.
I very rarely go to a toyfair/swapmeet these days, since I was lucky enough to pick up most of the obsoletes I wanted some years ago, but those I have been to recently seem to be about brand new models or bric-a-brac junk for the most part. Great for buying current stuff maybe cheaper than online, but not so great for mint old stuff going cheap. It seems weird getting nostalgic about events that were all about nostalgia.
Maz - I rang Database to order my Savoys on Fri 20th and was told they had no stock, and was advised to ring back in two weeks. I ignored that and rang them back on the 23rd to try and speak to another operative (which I did) who told me there were plenty in stock and took the order. It seems to be a matter of who you speak to and how helpful they are feeling - I'd try calling them a few times.