Actually I was going to say how pleased I am that the Zil has finally arrived and our friend Mr Dalkowski is obviously over the moon with it. I pleaded the case for a GF badguy Merc a few times but could never have come close to putting in the huge time and effort shown by Mr D to big up and defend the Zil!
Actually I was going to say how pleased I am that the Zil has finally arrived and our friend Mr Dalkowski is obviously over the moon with it. I pleaded the case for a GF badguy Merc a few times but could never have come close to putting in the huge time and effort shown by Mr D to big up and defend the Zil!
Thanks very much MovieCarFan! -{ I think the root cause of arguing my case for the ZIL-117 goes back to the days of collecting Radon (Soviet 1/43) and how I was "wasting my time with that Russkie garbage." Irony: that argument didn't work, as I'm actually quite politically right-wing conservative. Of course, now the price of Radon is through the roof...especially the "A-series" models I sought out.
But the thing in play here is that like I said earlier, sometimes a bone has to be thrown to both sides of the argument: the complete Bond-centrics (Land Rover Lightweight dressed up unconvincingly as a GAZ-69 or UAZ-469B or something) and indeed the complete car-centrics (the ZIL-117). Fabbri may take a lot of flak from all of us, but they're not complete idiots. They realized that maybe past issue 50, they were going to get an increasing amount of car-centrics per capita vs. Bond-centrics. Hence the increasing inclusion of "oddball" and vintage/classic cars that played very small roles. I don't think Fabbri did this because they were running out of ideas; I think they did it because their buyer demographic was starting to change and the influx of "Car-centrics." As James John Smythe has repeatedly pointed out, Fabbri is a profit-driven company. You sell what you make the most money on. And the ZIL-117 is already a proven moneymaker, like it or hate it.
And, incidentally, if you do hate it...well, do you take PayPal? Because if you do, I will more than happily buy your ZIL-117 for what you paid for it, PLUS shipping to the United States. Yes, I'm serious. Because then, I could either keep a fleet going after altering the number plates or simply resell them at a substantial profit.
Ok I have been reading alot of what has been said and I am going to cut to the chase the Zil is a fine model .....
Mr D you have misread the first line of my post. I like the Zil and I think it is a good model. I also do not doubt there are many east bloc/soviet model car collectors. My point was the Zil was chosen over many other vehicles that in my opinion deserved a place in the collection before the Zil. That said i am looking forward to receiving my Zil as i do all the models.
The Zil has no influence on my opinion of the collection as we come near to its end. I also agree this was listed as an issue many many moons ago. The Escort MK VI is an Iconic car as it was the end of an era for Ford in the UK. Hence Ford produced this and its replacement the Focus for a good year together in order not to scare off the regular Ford buyers. Everybody certainly in the UK knows somebody or someone whos owned one . The Zil obviously has novelty value that I agree but would there be such a demand for a Zil with no James bond link, i doubt it. Where as the escort will sell, sell and sell again as there so many derivatives that could be made, colours, spec , police, racing, custom the list is endless
Meanwhile I am really pleased with the Bronco and the bondola is brilliant. The scale is irrelevant as it sits nicely with the other models.
I was one of the voices calling for a continuation of the collection many post ago but now its time to draw a line and glad it is concluding. There is still room for some specials as promised at signing up maybe a free gift or two but Can't see that happen. The fiasco over the Anglia is also becoming a bit of a drag.
"Mr D you have misread the first line of my post."
Possibly, though my second post (last one made before this one) was intended as general and not aimed at you in particular.
"My point was the Zil was chosen over many other vehicles that in my opinion deserved a place in the collection before the Zil."
I actually do agree with this. Thing is though, it had been planned for a very long time. And only three vehicles have actually been planned and then removed from the collection: the Aston-Martin Volante minus modifications (omitted because of detail problems), the AMC Matador Thai Police Car (omitted likely because the Bangkok Police didn't use AMC Matadors), and the sawed-off bus (probably omitted due to problems with scale as well as the cover story of the London bus bombings...to be honest, I had no idea how they were going to fit that thing into a display case!). And unfortunately, whilst we can complain about getting the right models or wrong models in general (for example, to go back to another Ford Escort, the Ford Escort Mk. I from OHMSS would have been far better a choice than the Mini from the same rallye), we basically have to play the hand that Fabbri is dealing us. It's actually quite fortunate that we did indeed get Ixo to make it. I can just imagine U.H. butchering it and having a fixed-open trunk with no figures.
"The Escort MK VI is an Iconic car as it was the end of an era for Ford in the UK. Hence Ford produced this and its replacement the Focus for a good year together in order not to scare off the regular Ford buyers. Everybody certainly in the UK knows somebody or someone whos owned one ."
The same is true in the US of the Ford Crown Victoria. They're only sold to police departments now, they've become synonymous with law enforcement, and when Ford announced they were done with the "Crown Vic," it came as a truly shocking blow. The Crown Vic WAS "the police car." The JBCC got its own Crown Victoria in the colors of a real and widely-collected police department (Miami-Dade) with awesome details. I loved it. And as the son of someone heavily involved in law enforcment, I know literally dozens of people that drove around in one for a living. Yet, the JBCC car bombed in terms of sales on eBay. It was a great model, it was very true to how a real Miami-Dade police cruiser would look, and few sold on eBay. Why? Because...it's a Ford Crown Victoria. It's iconic, sure, and it's a great model, sure, but why not get something different or older? Why not get something more esoteric, or perhaps something of your father's generation? Maybe in ten years the Issue 100 Crown Vic will start picking up a market for overseas buyers, but for now, it's dead in the water.
"The Zil obviously has novelty value that I agree but would there be such a demand for a Zil with no James bond link, i doubt it."
But then why is it so heavily anticipated in three partworks (confirmed) and likely anticipated in at least one other? They may not be British partworks, but I think you're losing sight of the bigger picture here: Ixo's sales of the ZIL-117 will be astronomical in the former East Bloc (and, in my experiences with the local collectors, they don't really care about the car's link with James Bond; they just want a nice model to replace the aging, toylike Radon and now Agat model). And not just Russia, either. The Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, the former Yugoslavia, and even Germany. And the Ford Escort Mk. VI? Well, it would obviously sell in Great Britain. But where else would it be considered an iconic car by a majority of the market? Do you see what I'm getting at here? The possibilities may be endless as you say, but there is the law of supply and demand to remember. The ZIL-117, Bond or no Bond, is in relatively significant demand in the aforementioned countries. But outside of the UK, is the Escort Mk. VI in such demand? I really, really doubt it.
"The fiasco over the Anglia is also becoming a bit of a drag."
I still wonder about that, to change the subject. Will Ixo re-make the car, or because it was UH's mess (and, by logic, they should be the ones to clean it up), will they supply the car despite strained relations with Fabbri? Sometimes I wonder if G.E. Fabbri is actually going back and forth on this, too!!!
Oh, sorry, I thought this was the James Bond Car Collection forum. I must have stumbled upon the Iconic Car Collection forum in error.
These are all Bond vehicles, so you must be the one missing every point brought up both sides of the argument. And yet, back when we had the "if you could name 10 more cars to add to the collection, what would they be?" thing, you suggested the following...some are pretty glaring omissions, but others defy your own logic...
"1973 Chevrolet Impala (LALD) (Sheriff J W Pepper’s police car). I'd accept 1973 Chevrolet Bel Air (Louisiana State Police)."
Fine.
"Zamboni (FYEO). Just because it's unusual."
Oh?
"1942 Dodge WC 51 (TLD). This is the military vehicle Bond chases down the Hercules in."
No, it wasn't. As was pointed out at the time, it was the truck Koskov and Necros used to shoot at the plane. The vehicle Bond chased down the C-130 in was the already-released Land Rover Lightweight.
"1986 Wales & Edwards Rangemaster (TLD) - the milk truck!"
Awesome choice! And it was somehow more significant than the Aston-Martin DBS, as you implied from your previous post? Really?
"1986 Dodge Ram or 1976 Jeep CJ-7 (LTK). I'd prefer the Dodge Ram but I'd take either or both."
Either is fine [the Dodge Ram makes more sense]...but BOTH?
"Utilimaster Aeromaster (LTK). The security truck that Sanchez escapes from in Florida."
Another awesome, off-beat vehicle that played a minor role, just like the Zamboni.
"International 4900 (CR). Airport tanker."
Not practical to fit into a case, although I see the logic behind it.
"And the 1961 Chevrolet 1-Ton (FRWL) would be nice."
Literally the only thing on this entire list of yours I consider to be an incredibly glaring omission going by your definition of an incredibly glaring omission (by your own admission, you have only 32 cars and apparently think that number is perfectly sufficient).
Don't really want to get into a debate on this but the point I was trying to make is that we are starting to justify inclusion in the collection because a car is "iconic" or a previously inavailable or rare subject and not because it really belongs in a James Bond collection.
By your own admission, you have only 32 cars and apparently think that number is perfectly sufficient).
No, I'm a bond-centric collector (and darn proud of it) and someone who's paying (in some cases) almost double for a vehicle. That's why I only have 32 JBCC cars and I don't think that's perfectly sufficient. I just can't justify the space or cost for a vehicle that was little more than a movie prop or part of the background.
But each to his own. We collect what we want. Nuff said.
"Don't really want to get into a debate on this but the point I was trying to make is that we are starting to justify inclusion in the collection because a car is "iconic" or a previously inavailable or rare subject and not because it really belongs in a James Bond collection."
Then I won't get into a debate. On the other hand, I will point out that as far back as pages in the 30's on this thread, previously unavailable and rare subjects that appeared in Bond films were alternately lauded and criticized (as time passed, however, I will point out that the former became more and more prevalent over the latter). Did something change for you?
"We collect what we want. Nuff said."
I agree completely; although passing judgement on how "props" don't belong in a car collection (More than one DBS as insignificant? Really?) would seem to contradict that...but, like you said, you don't want a debate and frankly neither do I, so I'll stay away from that one.
Well i have been collecting this since the begining and I have to agree the service has gone down hill this year.
I had almost given on recieving the Bondola and bronco but they arrived monday 21st well over 8 weeks
The Bonola is not bad and I am quite pleased they put this in the collection it is the only model Ihave seenof this but it could do with a figure in it
the bronco well what can I say? oh yea the mud effect is quite good. Is it ment to be in mid air? again no driver!
I am looking forward to the zil hopefully by june
Well I will stay for the duration but I would have liked them to do another boat the "Moonraker Carlson" with hang glider even if it was a bit smaller. I hope the rest are not bronco standard.
Hey guys y'all
This post isn't Bond-centric at all, sorry ...
I just think that the passionate debate in this forum is beyond value and ... while my marriage has been breaking up over the last 6 months (not due to the JBCC models stacking up at home hahaha) ... it's been a real lot of fun and this forum has made this collection just all the more valuable to me. With more to come ...
Until JBCC, I was not a big model car collector (although I do have about 30 VW Beetle models and also a cabinet of 1:18 scale favourites), I have always had an appetite for model cars as my Dad made some beautiful vintage car Airfix models in the late 1950's / early 1960's. (Not sure why I said that, just kinda positioning myself, I guess )
So don't stop the passion. I have been watching 'Gone in 60 Seconds' on TV and now missed a whole load of it due to reading these recent posts. Need to watch the end bit though. Bring it on )
Cheers,
Rhinoman B-)
... after half a bottle wine and a VERY large vodka and coke, oops!
I am reading the exchange of opinions between the Bond-centrics and car-centrics (mainly Dalkowski in this team, but he's doing very well) with great interest - and amusement.
We should note that it was supposed to be a James Bond Car Collection (no mention of baddies' cars, extras etc.), but in effect it soon became a James Bond MOVIE Car Collection with EXTRAS, as many non-Bond cars from the movies were added, as well as non-cars (a motorbike, plane, gyro, even a gondola). I have collected them all, and with only about 10 to go will stick to the end. Obviously in a collection of 110 it may be expected that we will love some and hate some. The good thing is that by now there are fewer and fewer people asking for an extension. I think the collection has been long enough, and it is time for a close.
How many of you have subscribed or are planning to subscribe to the 1/8 scale DB5 (yes, I know there is a separate thread about this model)? Personally, I don't think it makes sense to have both collections running at the same time, so just can't wait to the issue 110 arrive. I can then take the whole collection out, think of some code 3 improvements and and see if I can display it anywhere.
Okay, just to address the driver/figure issue for the Craig Bond cars (and this goes across the board for all cars in the Daniel Craig era; I'm not debating here, just stating what's happening)...that was previously clarified as being one (of a very few) issues that's totally beyond the control of Ixo, U.H., Fabbri, and anyone else involved. Simply put, Daniel Craig Bond-era figures can't be used. I have a strong feeling that the Ford Crown Victoria was a test of this in that it did use an ambiguous, unnamed figure as the driver IN A POLICE UNIFORM. In other words, if someone tried to sue over marketing rights, Fabbri and Ixo could say "no, no, no, you've got it all wrong! That guy is the police officer we never saw on screen who the terrorist stole it from!" However, beyond that, I really doubt they could get away with anything.
"while my marriage has been breaking up over the last 6 months (not due to the JBCC models stacking up at home hahaha) ... it's been a real lot of fun and this forum has made this collection just all the more valuable to me. With more to come ..."
I'm sorry about that, RM. I'm just glad we could all make a few posts to help you out.
"Until JBCC, I was not a big model car collector (although I do have about 30 VW Beetle models and also a cabinet of 1:18 scale favourites), I have always had an appetite for model cars as my Dad made some beautiful vintage car Airfix models in the late 1950's / early 1960's. (Not sure why I said that, just kinda positioning myself, I guess )"
Well, I said my Dad introduced me to model car collecting with Dinky Toys and early Corgi (and then came Norev, Eligor, Siku [although I could only ever be interested in the trucks because everything was 1/55 scale], Solido, and then I discovered Brooklin)! Nothing to be ashamed of! Once you start collecting, let me tell you this: you're gonna have a hard time stopping! And that's not a bad thing, either.
"I am reading the exchange of opinions between the Bond-centrics and car-centrics (mainly Dalkowski in this team, but he's doing very well) with great interest - and amusement."
Glad I can provide interest and amusement (and I say that with 100% seriousness)!
"We should note that it was supposed to be a James Bond Car Collection (no mention of baddies' cars, extras etc.), but in effect it soon became a James Bond MOVIE Car Collection with EXTRAS, as many non-Bond cars from the movies were added, as well as non-cars (a motorbike, plane, gyro, even a gondola). I have collected them all, and with only about 10 to go will stick to the end. Obviously in a collection of 110 it may be expected that we will love some and hate some. The good thing is that by now there are fewer and fewer people asking for an extension. I think the collection has been long enough, and it is time for a close."
Absolutely, totally, and completely agree with everything you said here save one thing: the name of the collection (this will be kinda long, but you'll see why). It's true that there are some truly horrendously-named collections. Kultowe Auta PRL-u and Kultovni Auta CSSR come to mind. My Polish supplier for the former just calls it "The East Bloc Auto Collection;" which is catchy and incredibly apt. I think DeAgostini was listening, somehow, because when the Hungarian version of the series (Hungarian number plates) using those cars started up, it became the very aptly named "Retroautok a Keleti Blokkbol" ("Retro Autos of the East Bloc"). But sometimes, it's just not as cut and dry as the "Cult Autos of [Poland or Czechoslovakia] vs. "Retro Autos of the East Bloc."
But now, a new, Romanian exclusive (they'd previously been buying Kultowe Auta PRL-u and in many cases still are) that I've yet to order will be called "Masini de Legenda"..."Legendary Cars" although with the allusion that they'll all be from the East Bloc (the magazine DOES make clear that the cars will be restricted to models that were driven in Romania). The title isn't outright wrong like the "Cult Auto" series, but on the other hand, it relies on the assumption of the buyer. There's already been debate about including eveything from post-communist era Dacias to pre-WWII imports to Nicolae Ceausescu's Mercedes-Benz 600 Pullman Six-Door Landaulet! DeAgostini would be wise to look at the JBCC before they plunge in completely (it is still technically a test issue, which is why I can't get any for any kind of reasonable price). Whilst I don't think the James Bond Car Collection suffers from such mind-bogglingly vague expectations, I do think that the title is at least somewhat problematic in that it relies on the power of assumption.
When you see the title "James Bond Car Collection," and this is my own personal opinion, you expect to see cars from James Bond movies. But, as you pointed out Jag, on this forum, I'm not exactly the majority. Other members may take it as "Cars only James Bond drove." Some may take it as "any vehicle (car truck, boat, or plane) related to a Bond film at all." The title itself, if you think of it, actually feeds fuel to the "Bond-Centric vs. Car-Centric" debate. But then, what to rename it? "The James Bond Vehicle Collection" is a possibility, but neither catchy nor does it solve the problem of being "Bond only" (i.e. no baddies or supporting cast). The "James Bond Film Vehicle Collection" (which is ultimately what the collection is) is even more clunky; while it accurately describes the collection, it's just not something you put on a marketable product. It's too long, the potential for misinterpretation is STILL there (the books, remember?), and it really solves nothing.
But let's harken back to that Romanian partwork so vaguely named for a moment. As I said, it had a subtitle that indicated in no uncertain terms that the cars would only be those driven in Romania and alluded to the cars being East Bloc only. What if, instead of changing the title as you propose, Jag, you simply add a subtitle? "The James Bond Car Collection" as the title with the subtitle along the lines of "Featuring 110 Memorable Vehicles from the James Bond Films!" could solve it pretty quickly.
"think of some code 3 improvements"
Yes! This, I have a feeling, is what we'll ultimately wind up doing with this thread once issue 110 is officially released. Also, perhaps finding good quality 1/43 scale cars to expand the collection on our own. No involvement from Fabbri, purely voluntary, and some good old "do-it-yourself" work on the cars. Don't see how that could go wrong.
"THE JAMES BOND MOVIE CAR COLLECTION - Featuring 110 Memorable Vehicles from the James Bond Films" sounds best to me (so far)!. You can use the main title to be concise, but the full one provides quite an accurate additional description.
This thread will be invaluable to the future code 3 collectors - with many stills from the movies as well as photos of the actual cars and detailed discussions.
Thanks again for your valuable contribution, Dalkowski.
"THE JAMES BOND MOVIE CAR COLLECTION - Featuring 110 Memorable Vehicles from the James Bond Films" sounds best to me (so far)!. You can use the main title to be concise, but the full one provides quite an accurate additional description.
This thread will be invaluable to the future code 3 collectors - with many stills from the movies as well as photos of the actual cars and detailed discussions.
Thanks again for your valuable contribution, Dalkowski.
You're most welcome and I'm humbled! Okay, I could definitely accept that title/subtitle combo. You're also spot-on about using the title to be concise. Regarding Code 3's to make existing cars more true to the film, I also agree, and if anyone wants, to kill time while the collection moves along, I could point out good models for Code 3's; maybe start out with something really easy like Kish's Jeep in GF, the UAZ-469B's that abound in the Brosnan films, Professor Dent's Vauxhall PA Velox from DN, or Leonid Pushkin's GAZ-3102 Volga in TLD and then work my way up to really serious Code 3's like making the correct modifications to Corgi's 1961 Chevrolet 30-Series "One-Tonner" (the model is unfortunately pretty bad when compared to the movie Chevy, although it CAN be made into a terrific model), restoring "junkyard" condition models of Dinky Toys' really nice Plymouth Plaza Taxi or Plymouth Plaza Police Car into the Plymouth Savoy Istanbul Taxi, or even making the La Route Bleue (speaking of truly wonderful partworks...) Austin Cambridge into the Jamaica taxi we see in DN (this would be tough, but rewarding when finished...also, it does have to be La Route Bleue; the Hongwell Cararama version, while actually quite nice, is a later [mid-1960's] A60 Cambridge while the LRB version is the correct, first-year 1959 A55).
What I have already done in some of the models, is improve their headlights. Like wheels, headlights make a break a model. In 1/43 scale the most popular way is to produce headlights with a pin at the back, which is pushed through the whole and fixed with glue (or high temperature). While cheap and easy, this is also the ugliest kind of lights on any model, regardless of scale. Apart from that, some of my models have had misaligned lights too. In some cases it is enough to touch up the light at the back with a silver pen. In others it's best to remove the light, cut off the pin, sand the back slightly (only to remove the remains of the pin), and cement it with clear epoxy glue to a bit of bare metal foil (or any thin silver foil, metal or plastic). Then, when the epoxy sets, you carefully remove the glue around the light and fix the result to the body of a car. Simple, yet very effective!
What I have already done in some of the models, is improve their headlights. Like wheels, headlights make a break a model. In 1/43 scale the most popular way is to produce headlights with a pin at the back, which is pushed through the whole and fixed with glue (or high temperature). While cheap and easy, this is also the ugliest kind of lights on any model, regardless of scale. Apart from that, some of my models have had misaligned lights too. In some cases it is enough to touch up the light at the back with a silver pen. In others it's best to remove the light, cut off the pin, sand the back slightly (only to remove the remains of the pin), and cement it with clear epoxy glue to a bit of bare metal foil (or any thin silver foil, metal or plastic). Then, when the epoxy sets, you carefully remove the glue around the light and fix the result to the body of a car. Simple, yet very effective!
I personally have found this to be a much greater issue on taillights than headlights, though I always use the latter method with taillights. With headlights, I tend toward using the former method and I also think it depends on the car. Sometimes, it's either tolerable (think cars with very large or very deep headlights like the Ford Fairlane Skyliners*...from TB and DAD...or the Sunbeam Alpine from DN**, plus it's actually the CORRECT look for the ZAZ-965A Zaporozhets from GE***; sometimes these wind up looking just as bad; for a factory-made example, I would point out the outright-weird-looking headlights on the Neo GAZ-22 Volga station wagon in two-tone blue and white and the first edition Volga ambulance [NOT the one made for VVM models; that one is correct...the beige station wagon is also a bit of an improvement, though not all the way there; Neo's GAZ-21 sedan is just fine, tho']) or just plain impossible to remove the lights without risking damage (I'm thinking of the Bentley, the Hispano-Suiza, the MP Lafer, the La Salle/Miller Combination Coach hearse, and the Rolls-Royce Phantom III Sedanca de Ville). With that said, it is definitely something you do with a majority of cars (the OHMSS Mercedes-Benz 600 SWB, YOLT Toyota Crown, GF Lincoln Contintental, GE GAZ-31029 Volga, the AMC cars from TMWTGG, and the CR Daimler Limousine seem REALLY afflicted by this).
After the mix-up concerning my Zil model a few days ago,my newsagent has got me another,which I picked up today.Again,another fine model of a car you would'nt normally encounter.Personally,I think its quite a hansome car.If I was to be critical,perhaps the case could have been the bigger variety.I am now looking forward to 105,the Ford Country Squire.
"I am now looking forward to 105,the Ford Country Squire."
As am I! A '64 Ford Galaxie Country Squire in red...that same color red...was my grandfather's trusted companion on his hunting and fishing trips for just short of 22 years. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to this one!
It has been more than a month now since I have posted the first two parts of "The French Collection" back on pages 95 and 96 (no, I've not taken on Fabbri's bad habits, just didn’t find the time to finish the half-written text). A special thanks to those who expressed their interest - sorry for the delay. But here it is for all interested Bond-, car- or Bond-car-(ec)centrics - issue 3:
LOTUS ESPRIT • L'ESPION QUI M'AIMAIT
While Norev could base the earlier DB5 and Vanquish on cars already in their range, the Esprit was a completely new casting for them. Issue 3 was released on Dec 15, 2005, the first issue for the standard price of €14.95; issues 1 and 2 were sold cheaper in France. As Norev did not introduce an Esprit street version after the short involvement with the JBCC, the "low-mileage, one-owner" moulds found a good new home in Universal Hobbies' factory (which could well be the very same factory producing for Norev) afterwards. Only from issue 4 onwards could UH show that they can produce their own models for the JBCC, instead of just recycling moulds acquired elsewhere.
Although both cars share the same moulds, there is one obvious difference: The front turn indicators are deep orange on the Norev, but more yellow on the UH model.
You can also see that the UH is positioned more parallel to the box. The Norev is parked quite tightly inside the box so that the rear bumper actually touches the cardboard and the front left rudder scratches the box lid (and vice versa). Not just a case of loosen a screw and turn the car to a different angle: as the car is secured with two screws, the holes had to be drilled in different positions to change the angle after the first run.
Hardly visible on the car, but in the view from above you can see two irregular lines on the Norev's rear window slats. Similar lines are also present on the windscreen (but not visible in the photo). On the UH these imperfections have been removed but the car is without doubt the same casting as the Norev. The Norev's base only says LOTUS ESPRIT SUBMARINE and NOREV 1/43 without any other markings. The UH Lotus has additional text (Made in China etc.) but I can't see too much of it without taking the car out of its blister.
The background illustration is the same - except that the searchlight colour has been altered from white to blue.
The diorama base is not the same although it looks so similar. I wonder why the base had to be redone. You can see that the leaf near the right door is somewhat larger on the UH base. The "ground" touches the rear cardboard in two spots on the UH base, while a few millimeters "water" are distance on the Norev base (which can be seen below without the blisterpack). There are no number and other markings on the underside of the base.
I have two of the Norev Esprits, one without the blisterpack. I also have two of the later Esprits because one had a cracked case. I wanted to take this one out of the blister to take pictures without the box lids. However, when I retrieved the damaged one out of storage and was about to rip it open, I noticed that the print on the cardboard was different. One had the 007 gun logos like the other early UH models (as I have checked later: issues 1 to 6 and the Renault 11 - gift 3), the other just text like the later UH releases beginning with issue 7 (and including gifts 1 and 2). Closer examination showed that the one with the gun logos had the Norev address instead of Universal Hobbies’!
A Norev with a white cardboard? History has to be rewritten! So: closer examination of car and base … The base is the same mould as the earlier Norev (although the painting makes it look a little different at first glance), but with white English text. The car is the same Norev with the dark orange indicators, but it is mounted at a different angle right between the earlier Norev and the UH. The cardboard background is the same as the UH with the blue searchlight.
I can understand that Norev didn't want to produce JBCC models after the test run. I imagine they received lots of stupid questions like "How can it be that a Norev DB5 can be sold for €5 complete with a handpainted diorama and figure, with additional special parts and a magazine - while the same car costs €30 in the Norev box?!?" (Well, at least that's what I asked myself ...) I guess Norev were happy that UH still used their moulds (and paid for it), as long as the Norev name was removed.
So, this raises a few (or lots of) questions:
Why did Norev still supply the Lotus for the international release?
Did they produce too much for the test run and had lots of leftover models and/or bases (which were not yet printed or drilled)?
And if they produced too much, was it because the Lotus was planned as the cheap issue 1? (Remember, the Eligor bases for issue 1 has number 2 embossed, while the Esprit base does not show a number at all.)
I did receive this car with my subscription for the German magazine which startet almost a year after the UK - why were leftover models not completely gone prior to the start in Germany?
Are there other Norev models from issues 1, 2, 4, 5 with English bases?
Why does gift 3 have the earlier design while gifts 1 and 2 do not - was the Renault planned as a regular issue and produced earlier, then pushed back as a third gift?
And of course: How rare is this? AM I RICH NOW? :v
Excellent, informative post, RW! Keep 'em coming! Incidentally, are any pictures of the Eligor version of the Esprit available?
"(which could well be the very same factory producing for Norev)"
I doubt that, actually. For partworks, Norev has shared their moulds with everyone from Eligor (their natural rival, ironically) to UH to Ixo. Basically, they're just really big on mould-sharing.
"Why did Norev still supply the Lotus for the international release?"
I'm fairly sure you guessed right...that being they produced a ton of Lotus Esprits.
"Did they produce too much for the test run and had lots of leftover models and/or bases (which were not yet printed or drilled)?"
Again, I think you're spot-on here.
"And if they produced too much, was it because the Lotus was planned as the cheap issue 1?"
THIS is a good question. Whilst I have pretty good idea as to why, I don't really have solid, direct facts to back it up. But here goes...
The Esprit was different than the previous issues because it featured no wheels. Okay, you say, "so what?" Well, believe it or not, the wheels and axles do cost slightly more than a one-piece mould without wheels or axles. Although the cost is virtually no different, the cars are much FASTER to manufacture as such. You don't need to fit wheels and axles. Now combine this with another factor: namely that Universal Hobbies was GOING to be the manufacturer, but was not yet the manufacturer. Perhaps Fabbri convinced Norev to turn out some extra Esprits while U.H. was getting started?
So, I finally got an answer out of you, Dalko! In the pre-edited post I read earlier there was just another question: "Incidentally, are any pictures of the Eligor version of the Esprit available?"
?:) There is no Eligor Esprit - Eligor only produced one of the DB5's (and the bases for both their own and Norev's DB5). Which leads to further questions: Why did Eligor produce just one car for the test run (and one they had not in their range before), but Norev all the rest? And why did Eligor produce the bases for Norev's DB5, too? Was Eligor the maker of all the bases for the Norev cars? I can only say that the Esprit base does not have any markings, the DB5's base is marked Eligor. The other bases I can't check because I won't open the blister.
"The Esprit was different than the previous issues because it featured no wheels. Okay, you say, "so what?"
No, I don't say "so what?" I thought that too - not only the wheels, but especially no interior (meaning also no figures inside) because of the window slats. This should be much cheaper to produce, even considering the extra submarine parts, therefore would be a logical candidate for the cheaper issue 1.
But the lack of figures may also be the reason why it was not released as the first issue - the advertising emphasized the dioramas and figures. Although it doesn't matter here, Fabbri could have felt that issue 1 should include a figure.
"Eligor only produced one of the DB5's (and the bases for both their own and Norev's DB5)."
Whoops!!!
"No, I don't say "so what?""
Hmm...perhaps I should purge my internet vocabulary of all the Manhattanisms and Bronxisms that my Dad passed along to me? ) But seriously, the reason I think the Esprit wasn't Issue 1 was for two reasons.
The first of these reasons was because they wanted a DB5 to be Issue 1. The DB5 is so Bondian that on my layout, which contains literally hundreds of cars, the first car in the parking lot of the East Side Station that EVERYONE notices is my Minichamps Goldfinger DB5. Whether they're familiar with Bond or not, they just know that it's "James Bond's car." I think that the collection starting out with a DB5 would've had that same effect of grabbing Bond fans and non-Bond fans alike.
The second reason I think they went with the DB5 first was because they wanted to establish it as a CAR collection. Say what you will, but even though the Esprit was a car in submarine mode, it had no wheels. How, from a marketing perspective, do you START a car collection featuring a vehicle without any wheels?
Then there's the recognition factor. While most British gearheads (and some American gearheads...) can instantly tell you "wow, cool, a Lotus Esprit!" as well as hardcore Bond fans, what about those in the middle? In other words, someone who wouldn't remember the Lotus Esprit and who would only remember the DB5. It's not without precedent, either, despite the Esprit's fame during the Roger Moore era. One guy who saw my layout was a genuine Bond fan who had seen all 22 films multiple times. He failed to recognize the famous 1961 Sunbeam Alpine (which I also have sitting in traffic on gridlocked Berlin Street, the nearest and most visible street to the person viewing my layout from right next to the control panel) because he just wasn't all that into cars and never really picked up anything from the films other than the Aston Martin DB5. He told me right then and there that it was the only car he really remembered from the films. If a genuine fan like him can't recognize the Esprit, then what about the casual fans...or maybe those who like the Connery flicks or the recent flicks while not really paying attention to Roger Moore? I think a lot of had to be, for various reasons "the DB5 had to be first to grab your attention."
"The first of these reasons was because they wanted a DB5 to be Issue 1. The DB5 is so Bondian that on my layout, which contains literally hundreds of cars, the first car in the parking lot of the East Side Station that EVERYONE notices is my Minichamps Goldfinger DB5. Whether they're familiar with Bond or not, they just know that it's "James Bond's car." I think that the collection starting out with a DB5 would've had that same effect of grabbing Bond fans and non-Bond fans alike.
The second reason I think they went with the DB5 first was because they wanted to establish it as a CAR collection. Say what you will, but even though the Esprit was a car in submarine mode, it had no wheels. How, from a marketing perspective, do you START a car collection featuring a vehicle without any wheels?"
Although i love lotus cars and have raced and owed 6 cars, including the lotus Esprit which i purchased, i think it was in 77, and yes it was white.
I 100% agree with you the Aston DB5 just had to be the first car in the collection,and as Aston has been so much associated with bond over the last 40-50 years.
Not a lot of comments about the Bondola here ... I am really not a fan, mostly because it is not 1:43 scale. The tank was bad enough being 1:50, but this one is just all wrong.
The Bronco 2, whilst not that major a car in the film, is a pretty good model, especially at this price.
I think my take on this supports Dalkowski's point about the Bond-centric collectors and the car-centric collectors. I like Bond movies very very much and have seen all of them at least several times. However my collection is very much 1:43-based (with the odd 1:18), so this boat in some totally random scale is not really what I am into. PS, reopening the Zil/Escort 6 debate, I am very much looking forward to the Zil as I think it is a fascinating car, both in terms of design and also its political/ historical importance. However I think the Escort would make an interesting model, as to my knowledge no-one has ever modelled this car (apart from the rally version, which is quite different).
Each has their own collecting preference, but I really think the collection should have if nothing else stuck to 1:43 scale. B is for Bondola, B is for Box in the attic (where mine will remain while the 1:43s are mostly on display).
I can see some hardcore car-centric finding the Bondola not to their taste.I quite like it,but Its crying out for a Roger Moore figure,then I think most of us,would be a bit more enthusiastic about It being in the collection.
I think every model in the collection that are figureless, would have greatly benefited by this ,unless the scene dictated otherwise.For example,I have always disliked the Willys Jeep,but If there had been a couple of Henchmen sat in there ,I would have liked It a whole lot more,I suppose thats me probably being a Bond-centric.Same goes for the next model 105,Ford Squire,I'd love to see Bond setting in that.Anybody know if this model will feature any figures?
"I think my take on this supports Dalkowski's point about the Bond-centric collectors and the car-centric collectors. I like Bond movies very very much and have seen all of them at least several times. However my collection is very much 1:43-based (with the odd 1:18), so this boat in some totally random scale is not really what I am into."
I'll remain neutral about the Bondola; I neither have one nor plan on buying one primarily because it just doesn't fit my collection. However, with that said, I do find it quite telling that outside of the surprisingly-poor-selling Ford Crown Victoria, it did NOT do well on eBay and was Ixo's second-poorest-selling model.
"PS, reopening the Zil/Escort 6 debate, I am very much looking forward to the Zil as I think it is a fascinating car, both in terms of design and also its political/ historical importance. However I think the Escort would make an interesting model, as to my knowledge no-one has ever modelled this car (apart from the rally version, which is quite different)."
Well, I never said I didn't want ANY form of Escort Mk. VI. If Ixo or Minichamps or Spark released one as part of their normal lineup, I'd definitely support that. In the 1/43 model car hobby in general, it's certainly under-represented. However, I still think THE most underrepresented car in 1/43 is the 1955 Chevy Bel Air 4-door Sedan. Enough with the '55 Bel Air Coupes and Convertibles. It's the first modern General Motors 4-door sedan and nobody makes one? Really? But I'm probably starting to go off track.
Again though, myhandle's post proves a point: I'm not alone in being a car-centric (though I do admit to being an extreme car-centric) within the more-than-casual Bond fan community. In other words, this is not just a bunch of car-centrics with no affinity for Bond at all buying out the ZIL-117's, La Salle/Miller Combination Coach hearses, and Ford Bronco II's. If you make an interesting model that has a connection with Bond, even in a relatively small role, then Bond fans (with admittedly car-centric tendencies) will still buy it. That's basically been my entire point.
"Each has their own collecting preference, but I really think the collection should have if nothing else stuck to 1:43 scale."
I agree, although we did see quite a bit of "Dinky 48'ing." Dad coined that term years ago to describe the Dinky Toys (and early Corgi Toys) practice of getting a model "about 1/48 scale" (which was Dinky's scale during their heyday from the mid 1950's to early-mid 1960's). The FRWL Bentley is about 1/40 scale, the Hispano-Suiza maybe 1/41 or 1/42 (ditto the '63 Chevy Impala), the Leyland Sherpa being about 1/45, etc. All nice models and I think they fall within the acceptable margin of error, though if we could have a do-over on them, it would be nice (don't worry, I know, never gonna happen).
"For example,I have always disliked the Willys Jeep"
I'm surprised no one noticed this, but we never had a Willys Jeep. Yes, you read that correctly: we never had a Willys Jeep. Take a close look at the model; especially at the headlights, tall square grille, and dual spare tires. I'm in complete agreement with the guys at IMCDB...it's an early Mahinda CJ-3B made in India...
"Anybody know if this model will feature any figures?"
I've not seen any prototypes, but remember: Ixo has thus far put figures into just two of its models. Whilst they couldn't help it with one of these due to licensing (the Ford Bronco II), I'm beginning to think Ixo will start delivering a lot of figureless models...unless, somehow, Fabbri's agreement with EON was or is starting to deteriorate regarding the use of characters (I'm genuinely beginning to wonder about this...look at the Rolls-Royce models produced by UH...even in the gorgeous Phantom III Sedanca de Ville, we saw Oddjob but not Auric Goldfinger...laziness or licensing issue?).
It seems we're all pretty much on the same page! I agree with the figures issue; in my regular 1:43 collection I prefer to have no figures (except maybe in my modest collection of F1 cars it's nice to have the right helmet design). I can certainly appreciate the value of the Bondola, it's just the size that stope me from having a use for it (though I can imagine after next watching Moonraker it might just go on temporary display somewhere away from the model cars.
I like the term "Dinky 48-ing"! Inspired, and you're quite right about this collection. I thought the Bentley and Hispano Suiza might be OK as they are quite big cars, but it's not a massive surprise that they're too big. I noticed the Impala looked too small.
As for the Escort, I would not be surprised if Neo makes one, and if given another 5-10 years or so, Vanguards as well (they tend to make cars only when they've been out of production at least 15 years, with 3 or 4 exceptions). My collection is very varied, and my Escort appetite is satisfied by the Mk1 and Mk2 from Trofeu in both rally and road versions, the Mk3 XR3i from Vangards and the Minichamps RS Cosworth, rally and road. I would probably buy a Neo Mk6 if it was made and I could get it on eBay on sale for under £30 delivered (they normally start at £45+ and that's too much for me for a car I am not desperate to have), and almost certainly a Vanguards as they represent amazing value.
That's fairly off topic, but after a busy few weeks I am having a day thinking about model cars and looking at eBay!
Comments
Thanks very much MovieCarFan!
But the thing in play here is that like I said earlier, sometimes a bone has to be thrown to both sides of the argument: the complete Bond-centrics (Land Rover Lightweight dressed up unconvincingly as a GAZ-69 or UAZ-469B or something) and indeed the complete car-centrics (the ZIL-117). Fabbri may take a lot of flak from all of us, but they're not complete idiots. They realized that maybe past issue 50, they were going to get an increasing amount of car-centrics per capita vs. Bond-centrics. Hence the increasing inclusion of "oddball" and vintage/classic cars that played very small roles. I don't think Fabbri did this because they were running out of ideas; I think they did it because their buyer demographic was starting to change and the influx of "Car-centrics." As James John Smythe has repeatedly pointed out, Fabbri is a profit-driven company. You sell what you make the most money on. And the ZIL-117 is already a proven moneymaker, like it or hate it.
And, incidentally, if you do hate it...well, do you take PayPal? Because if you do, I will more than happily buy your ZIL-117 for what you paid for it, PLUS shipping to the United States. Yes, I'm serious. Because then, I could either keep a fleet going after altering the number plates or simply resell them at a substantial profit.
Mr D you have misread the first line of my post. I like the Zil and I think it is a good model. I also do not doubt there are many east bloc/soviet model car collectors. My point was the Zil was chosen over many other vehicles that in my opinion deserved a place in the collection before the Zil. That said i am looking forward to receiving my Zil as i do all the models.
The Zil has no influence on my opinion of the collection as we come near to its end. I also agree this was listed as an issue many many moons ago. The Escort MK VI is an Iconic car as it was the end of an era for Ford in the UK. Hence Ford produced this and its replacement the Focus for a good year together in order not to scare off the regular Ford buyers. Everybody certainly in the UK knows somebody or someone whos owned one . The Zil obviously has novelty value that I agree but would there be such a demand for a Zil with no James bond link, i doubt it. Where as the escort will sell, sell and sell again as there so many derivatives that could be made, colours, spec , police, racing, custom the list is endless
Meanwhile I am really pleased with the Bronco and the bondola is brilliant. The scale is irrelevant as it sits nicely with the other models.
I was one of the voices calling for a continuation of the collection many post ago but now its time to draw a line and glad it is concluding. There is still room for some specials as promised at signing up maybe a free gift or two but Can't see that happen. The fiasco over the Anglia is also becoming a bit of a drag.
Time to finish i think less is more
Best
Diecast007
Possibly, though my second post (last one made before this one) was intended as general and not aimed at you in particular.
"My point was the Zil was chosen over many other vehicles that in my opinion deserved a place in the collection before the Zil."
I actually do agree with this. Thing is though, it had been planned for a very long time. And only three vehicles have actually been planned and then removed from the collection: the Aston-Martin Volante minus modifications (omitted because of detail problems), the AMC Matador Thai Police Car (omitted likely because the Bangkok Police didn't use AMC Matadors), and the sawed-off bus (probably omitted due to problems with scale as well as the cover story of the London bus bombings...to be honest, I had no idea how they were going to fit that thing into a display case!). And unfortunately, whilst we can complain about getting the right models or wrong models in general (for example, to go back to another Ford Escort, the Ford Escort Mk. I from OHMSS would have been far better a choice than the Mini from the same rallye), we basically have to play the hand that Fabbri is dealing us. It's actually quite fortunate that we did indeed get Ixo to make it. I can just imagine U.H. butchering it and having a fixed-open trunk with no figures.
"The Escort MK VI is an Iconic car as it was the end of an era for Ford in the UK. Hence Ford produced this and its replacement the Focus for a good year together in order not to scare off the regular Ford buyers. Everybody certainly in the UK knows somebody or someone whos owned one ."
The same is true in the US of the Ford Crown Victoria. They're only sold to police departments now, they've become synonymous with law enforcement, and when Ford announced they were done with the "Crown Vic," it came as a truly shocking blow. The Crown Vic WAS "the police car." The JBCC got its own Crown Victoria in the colors of a real and widely-collected police department (Miami-Dade) with awesome details. I loved it. And as the son of someone heavily involved in law enforcment, I know literally dozens of people that drove around in one for a living. Yet, the JBCC car bombed in terms of sales on eBay. It was a great model, it was very true to how a real Miami-Dade police cruiser would look, and few sold on eBay. Why? Because...it's a Ford Crown Victoria. It's iconic, sure, and it's a great model, sure, but why not get something different or older? Why not get something more esoteric, or perhaps something of your father's generation? Maybe in ten years the Issue 100 Crown Vic will start picking up a market for overseas buyers, but for now, it's dead in the water.
"The Zil obviously has novelty value that I agree but would there be such a demand for a Zil with no James bond link, i doubt it."
But then why is it so heavily anticipated in three partworks (confirmed) and likely anticipated in at least one other? They may not be British partworks, but I think you're losing sight of the bigger picture here: Ixo's sales of the ZIL-117 will be astronomical in the former East Bloc (and, in my experiences with the local collectors, they don't really care about the car's link with James Bond; they just want a nice model to replace the aging, toylike Radon and now Agat model). And not just Russia, either. The Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Poland, the Czech Republic, Slovakia, the former Yugoslavia, and even Germany. And the Ford Escort Mk. VI? Well, it would obviously sell in Great Britain. But where else would it be considered an iconic car by a majority of the market? Do you see what I'm getting at here? The possibilities may be endless as you say, but there is the law of supply and demand to remember. The ZIL-117, Bond or no Bond, is in relatively significant demand in the aforementioned countries. But outside of the UK, is the Escort Mk. VI in such demand? I really, really doubt it.
"The fiasco over the Anglia is also becoming a bit of a drag."
I still wonder about that, to change the subject. Will Ixo re-make the car, or because it was UH's mess (and, by logic, they should be the ones to clean it up), will they supply the car despite strained relations with Fabbri? Sometimes I wonder if G.E. Fabbri is actually going back and forth on this, too!!!
These are all Bond vehicles, so you must be the one missing every point brought up both sides of the argument. And yet, back when we had the "if you could name 10 more cars to add to the collection, what would they be?" thing, you suggested the following...some are pretty glaring omissions, but others defy your own logic...
"1973 Chevrolet Impala (LALD) (Sheriff J W Pepper’s police car). I'd accept 1973 Chevrolet Bel Air (Louisiana State Police)."
Fine.
"Zamboni (FYEO). Just because it's unusual."
Oh?
"1942 Dodge WC 51 (TLD). This is the military vehicle Bond chases down the Hercules in."
No, it wasn't. As was pointed out at the time, it was the truck Koskov and Necros used to shoot at the plane. The vehicle Bond chased down the C-130 in was the already-released Land Rover Lightweight.
"1986 Wales & Edwards Rangemaster (TLD) - the milk truck!"
Awesome choice! And it was somehow more significant than the Aston-Martin DBS, as you implied from your previous post? Really?
"1986 Dodge Ram or 1976 Jeep CJ-7 (LTK). I'd prefer the Dodge Ram but I'd take either or both."
Either is fine [the Dodge Ram makes more sense]...but BOTH?
"Utilimaster Aeromaster (LTK). The security truck that Sanchez escapes from in Florida."
Another awesome, off-beat vehicle that played a minor role, just like the Zamboni.
"International 4900 (CR). Airport tanker."
Not practical to fit into a case, although I see the logic behind it.
"And the 1961 Chevrolet 1-Ton (FRWL) would be nice."
Literally the only thing on this entire list of yours I consider to be an incredibly glaring omission going by your definition of an incredibly glaring omission (by your own admission, you have only 32 cars and apparently think that number is perfectly sufficient).
No, I'm a bond-centric collector (and darn proud of it) and someone who's paying (in some cases) almost double for a vehicle. That's why I only have 32 JBCC cars and I don't think that's perfectly sufficient. I just can't justify the space or cost for a vehicle that was little more than a movie prop or part of the background.
But each to his own. We collect what we want. Nuff said.
Then I won't get into a debate. On the other hand, I will point out that as far back as pages in the 30's on this thread, previously unavailable and rare subjects that appeared in Bond films were alternately lauded and criticized (as time passed, however, I will point out that the former became more and more prevalent over the latter). Did something change for you?
"We collect what we want. Nuff said."
I agree completely; although passing judgement on how "props" don't belong in a car collection (More than one DBS as insignificant? Really?) would seem to contradict that...but, like you said, you don't want a debate and frankly neither do I, so I'll stay away from that one.
I had almost given on recieving the Bondola and bronco but they arrived monday 21st well over 8 weeks
The Bonola is not bad and I am quite pleased they put this in the collection it is the only model Ihave seenof this but it could do with a figure in it
the bronco well what can I say? oh yea the mud effect is quite good. Is it ment to be in mid air? again no driver!
I am looking forward to the zil hopefully by june
Well I will stay for the duration but I would have liked them to do another boat the "Moonraker Carlson" with hang glider even if it was a bit smaller. I hope the rest are not bronco standard.
This post isn't Bond-centric at all, sorry ...
I just think that the passionate debate in this forum is beyond value and ... while my marriage has been breaking up over the last 6 months (not due to the JBCC models stacking up at home hahaha) ... it's been a real lot of fun and this forum has made this collection just all the more valuable to me. With more to come ...
Until JBCC, I was not a big model car collector (although I do have about 30 VW Beetle models and also a cabinet of 1:18 scale favourites), I have always had an appetite for model cars as my Dad made some beautiful vintage car Airfix models in the late 1950's / early 1960's. (Not sure why I said that, just kinda positioning myself, I guess )
So don't stop the passion. I have been watching 'Gone in 60 Seconds' on TV and now missed a whole load of it due to reading these recent posts. Need to watch the end bit though. Bring it on
Cheers,
Rhinoman B-)
... after half a bottle wine and a VERY large vodka and coke, oops!
We should note that it was supposed to be a James Bond Car Collection (no mention of baddies' cars, extras etc.), but in effect it soon became a James Bond MOVIE Car Collection with EXTRAS, as many non-Bond cars from the movies were added, as well as non-cars (a motorbike, plane, gyro, even a gondola). I have collected them all, and with only about 10 to go will stick to the end. Obviously in a collection of 110 it may be expected that we will love some and hate some. The good thing is that by now there are fewer and fewer people asking for an extension. I think the collection has been long enough, and it is time for a close.
How many of you have subscribed or are planning to subscribe to the 1/8 scale DB5 (yes, I know there is a separate thread about this model)? Personally, I don't think it makes sense to have both collections running at the same time, so just can't wait to the issue 110 arrive. I can then take the whole collection out, think of some code 3 improvements and and see if I can display it anywhere.
Okay, just to address the driver/figure issue for the Craig Bond cars (and this goes across the board for all cars in the Daniel Craig era; I'm not debating here, just stating what's happening)...that was previously clarified as being one (of a very few) issues that's totally beyond the control of Ixo, U.H., Fabbri, and anyone else involved. Simply put, Daniel Craig Bond-era figures can't be used. I have a strong feeling that the Ford Crown Victoria was a test of this in that it did use an ambiguous, unnamed figure as the driver IN A POLICE UNIFORM. In other words, if someone tried to sue over marketing rights, Fabbri and Ixo could say "no, no, no, you've got it all wrong! That guy is the police officer we never saw on screen who the terrorist stole it from!" However, beyond that, I really doubt they could get away with anything.
"while my marriage has been breaking up over the last 6 months (not due to the JBCC models stacking up at home hahaha) ... it's been a real lot of fun and this forum has made this collection just all the more valuable to me. With more to come ..."
I'm sorry about that, RM. I'm just glad we could all make a few posts to help you out.
"Until JBCC, I was not a big model car collector (although I do have about 30 VW Beetle models and also a cabinet of 1:18 scale favourites), I have always had an appetite for model cars as my Dad made some beautiful vintage car Airfix models in the late 1950's / early 1960's. (Not sure why I said that, just kinda positioning myself, I guess )"
Well, I said my Dad introduced me to model car collecting with Dinky Toys and early Corgi (and then came Norev, Eligor, Siku [although I could only ever be interested in the trucks because everything was 1/55 scale], Solido, and then I discovered Brooklin)! Nothing to be ashamed of!
"I am reading the exchange of opinions between the Bond-centrics and car-centrics (mainly Dalkowski in this team, but he's doing very well) with great interest - and amusement."
Glad I can provide interest and amusement (and I say that with 100% seriousness)!
"We should note that it was supposed to be a James Bond Car Collection (no mention of baddies' cars, extras etc.), but in effect it soon became a James Bond MOVIE Car Collection with EXTRAS, as many non-Bond cars from the movies were added, as well as non-cars (a motorbike, plane, gyro, even a gondola). I have collected them all, and with only about 10 to go will stick to the end. Obviously in a collection of 110 it may be expected that we will love some and hate some. The good thing is that by now there are fewer and fewer people asking for an extension. I think the collection has been long enough, and it is time for a close."
Absolutely, totally, and completely agree with everything you said here save one thing: the name of the collection (this will be kinda long, but you'll see why). It's true that there are some truly horrendously-named collections. Kultowe Auta PRL-u and Kultovni Auta CSSR come to mind. My Polish supplier for the former just calls it "The East Bloc Auto Collection;" which is catchy and incredibly apt. I think DeAgostini was listening, somehow, because when the Hungarian version of the series (Hungarian number plates) using those cars started up, it became the very aptly named "Retroautok a Keleti Blokkbol" ("Retro Autos of the East Bloc"). But sometimes, it's just not as cut and dry as the "Cult Autos of [Poland or Czechoslovakia] vs. "Retro Autos of the East Bloc."
But now, a new, Romanian exclusive (they'd previously been buying Kultowe Auta PRL-u and in many cases still are) that I've yet to order will be called "Masini de Legenda"..."Legendary Cars" although with the allusion that they'll all be from the East Bloc (the magazine DOES make clear that the cars will be restricted to models that were driven in Romania). The title isn't outright wrong like the "Cult Auto" series, but on the other hand, it relies on the assumption of the buyer. There's already been debate about including eveything from post-communist era Dacias to pre-WWII imports to Nicolae Ceausescu's Mercedes-Benz 600 Pullman Six-Door Landaulet! DeAgostini would be wise to look at the JBCC before they plunge in completely (it is still technically a test issue, which is why I can't get any for any kind of reasonable price). Whilst I don't think the James Bond Car Collection suffers from such mind-bogglingly vague expectations, I do think that the title is at least somewhat problematic in that it relies on the power of assumption.
When you see the title "James Bond Car Collection," and this is my own personal opinion, you expect to see cars from James Bond movies. But, as you pointed out Jag, on this forum, I'm not exactly the majority. Other members may take it as "Cars only James Bond drove." Some may take it as "any vehicle (car truck, boat, or plane) related to a Bond film at all." The title itself, if you think of it, actually feeds fuel to the "Bond-Centric vs. Car-Centric" debate. But then, what to rename it? "The James Bond Vehicle Collection" is a possibility, but neither catchy nor does it solve the problem of being "Bond only" (i.e. no baddies or supporting cast). The "James Bond Film Vehicle Collection" (which is ultimately what the collection is) is even more clunky; while it accurately describes the collection, it's just not something you put on a marketable product. It's too long, the potential for misinterpretation is STILL there (the books, remember?), and it really solves nothing.
But let's harken back to that Romanian partwork so vaguely named for a moment. As I said, it had a subtitle that indicated in no uncertain terms that the cars would only be those driven in Romania and alluded to the cars being East Bloc only. What if, instead of changing the title as you propose, Jag, you simply add a subtitle? "The James Bond Car Collection" as the title with the subtitle along the lines of "Featuring 110 Memorable Vehicles from the James Bond Films!" could solve it pretty quickly.
"think of some code 3 improvements"
Yes! This, I have a feeling, is what we'll ultimately wind up doing with this thread once issue 110 is officially released. Also, perhaps finding good quality 1/43 scale cars to expand the collection on our own. No involvement from Fabbri, purely voluntary, and some good old "do-it-yourself" work on the cars. Don't see how that could go wrong.
This thread will be invaluable to the future code 3 collectors - with many stills from the movies as well as photos of the actual cars and detailed discussions.
Thanks again for your valuable contribution, Dalkowski.
You're most welcome and I'm humbled!
I personally have found this to be a much greater issue on taillights than headlights, though I always use the latter method with taillights. With headlights, I tend toward using the former method and I also think it depends on the car. Sometimes, it's either tolerable (think cars with very large or very deep headlights like the Ford Fairlane Skyliners*...from TB and DAD...or the Sunbeam Alpine from DN**, plus it's actually the CORRECT look for the ZAZ-965A Zaporozhets from GE***; sometimes these wind up looking just as bad; for a factory-made example, I would point out the outright-weird-looking headlights on the Neo GAZ-22 Volga station wagon in two-tone blue and white and the first edition Volga ambulance [NOT the one made for VVM models; that one is correct...the beige station wagon is also a bit of an improvement, though not all the way there; Neo's GAZ-21 sedan is just fine, tho']) or just plain impossible to remove the lights without risking damage (I'm thinking of the Bentley, the Hispano-Suiza, the MP Lafer, the La Salle/Miller Combination Coach hearse, and the Rolls-Royce Phantom III Sedanca de Ville). With that said, it is definitely something you do with a majority of cars (the OHMSS Mercedes-Benz 600 SWB, YOLT Toyota Crown, GF Lincoln Contintental, GE GAZ-31029 Volga, the AMC cars from TMWTGG, and the CR Daimler Limousine seem REALLY afflicted by this).
*Seen here....
http://assets.speedtv.com/images/easy_gallery/1026382/1957_ford_fairlane_500_retractable_m.jpg
**Seen here...
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/sunbeam-sports-cars-2.jpg
***Seen here...
http://home.clara.net/peterfrost/zaz965a.jpg
"While cheap and easy, this is also the ugliest kind of lights on any model, regardless of scale."
I guess Corgi Vanguards' sequin headlights have a fan after all, then (just kidding)...
As am I! A '64 Ford Galaxie Country Squire in red...that same color red...was my grandfather's trusted companion on his hunting and fishing trips for just short of 22 years. I'm really, REALLY looking forward to this one!
LOTUS ESPRIT • L'ESPION QUI M'AIMAIT
While Norev could base the earlier DB5 and Vanquish on cars already in their range, the Esprit was a completely new casting for them. Issue 3 was released on Dec 15, 2005, the first issue for the standard price of €14.95; issues 1 and 2 were sold cheaper in France. As Norev did not introduce an Esprit street version after the short involvement with the JBCC, the "low-mileage, one-owner" moulds found a good new home in Universal Hobbies' factory (which could well be the very same factory producing for Norev) afterwards. Only from issue 4 onwards could UH show that they can produce their own models for the JBCC, instead of just recycling moulds acquired elsewhere.
Although both cars share the same moulds, there is one obvious difference: The front turn indicators are deep orange on the Norev, but more yellow on the UH model.
You can also see that the UH is positioned more parallel to the box. The Norev is parked quite tightly inside the box so that the rear bumper actually touches the cardboard and the front left rudder scratches the box lid (and vice versa). Not just a case of loosen a screw and turn the car to a different angle: as the car is secured with two screws, the holes had to be drilled in different positions to change the angle after the first run.
Hardly visible on the car, but in the view from above you can see two irregular lines on the Norev's rear window slats. Similar lines are also present on the windscreen (but not visible in the photo). On the UH these imperfections have been removed but the car is without doubt the same casting as the Norev. The Norev's base only says LOTUS ESPRIT SUBMARINE and NOREV 1/43 without any other markings. The UH Lotus has additional text (Made in China etc.) but I can't see too much of it without taking the car out of its blister.
The background illustration is the same - except that the searchlight colour has been altered from white to blue.
The diorama base is not the same although it looks so similar. I wonder why the base had to be redone. You can see that the leaf near the right door is somewhat larger on the UH base. The "ground" touches the rear cardboard in two spots on the UH base, while a few millimeters "water" are distance on the Norev base (which can be seen below without the blisterpack). There are no number and other markings on the underside of the base.
I have two of the Norev Esprits, one without the blisterpack. I also have two of the later Esprits because one had a cracked case. I wanted to take this one out of the blister to take pictures without the box lids. However, when I retrieved the damaged one out of storage and was about to rip it open, I noticed that the print on the cardboard was different. One had the 007 gun logos like the other early UH models (as I have checked later: issues 1 to 6 and the Renault 11 - gift 3), the other just text like the later UH releases beginning with issue 7 (and including gifts 1 and 2). Closer examination showed that the one with the gun logos had the Norev address instead of Universal Hobbies’!
A Norev with a white cardboard? History has to be rewritten!
I can understand that Norev didn't want to produce JBCC models after the test run. I imagine they received lots of stupid questions like "How can it be that a Norev DB5 can be sold for €5 complete with a handpainted diorama and figure, with additional special parts and a magazine - while the same car costs €30 in the Norev box?!?" (Well, at least that's what I asked myself ...) I guess Norev were happy that UH still used their moulds (and paid for it), as long as the Norev name was removed.
So, this raises a few (or lots of) questions:
Why did Norev still supply the Lotus for the international release?
Did they produce too much for the test run and had lots of leftover models and/or bases (which were not yet printed or drilled)?
And if they produced too much, was it because the Lotus was planned as the cheap issue 1? (Remember, the Eligor bases for issue 1 has number 2 embossed, while the Esprit base does not show a number at all.)
I did receive this car with my subscription for the German magazine which startet almost a year after the UK - why were leftover models not completely gone prior to the start in Germany?
Are there other Norev models from issues 1, 2, 4, 5 with English bases?
Why does gift 3 have the earlier design while gifts 1 and 2 do not - was the Renault planned as a regular issue and produced earlier, then pushed back as a third gift?
And of course: How rare is this? AM I RICH NOW? :v
Answers - speculation, guesses, facts, $$$ offers - are highly anticipated!
Quantum of Norevs - "The French Collection" will return with issue 4:
BMW Z8 • LE MONDE NE SUFFIT PAS
"(which could well be the very same factory producing for Norev)"
I doubt that, actually. For partworks, Norev has shared their moulds with everyone from Eligor (their natural rival, ironically) to UH to Ixo. Basically, they're just really big on mould-sharing.
"Why did Norev still supply the Lotus for the international release?"
I'm fairly sure you guessed right...that being they produced a ton of Lotus Esprits.
"Did they produce too much for the test run and had lots of leftover models and/or bases (which were not yet printed or drilled)?"
Again, I think you're spot-on here.
"And if they produced too much, was it because the Lotus was planned as the cheap issue 1?"
THIS is a good question. Whilst I have pretty good idea as to why, I don't really have solid, direct facts to back it up. But here goes...
The Esprit was different than the previous issues because it featured no wheels. Okay, you say, "so what?" Well, believe it or not, the wheels and axles do cost slightly more than a one-piece mould without wheels or axles. Although the cost is virtually no different, the cars are much FASTER to manufacture as such. You don't need to fit wheels and axles. Now combine this with another factor: namely that Universal Hobbies was GOING to be the manufacturer, but was not yet the manufacturer. Perhaps Fabbri convinced Norev to turn out some extra Esprits while U.H. was getting started?
?:) There is no Eligor Esprit - Eligor only produced one of the DB5's (and the bases for both their own and Norev's DB5). Which leads to further questions: Why did Eligor produce just one car for the test run (and one they had not in their range before), but Norev all the rest? And why did Eligor produce the bases for Norev's DB5, too? Was Eligor the maker of all the bases for the Norev cars? I can only say that the Esprit base does not have any markings, the DB5's base is marked Eligor. The other bases I can't check because I won't open the blister.
"The Esprit was different than the previous issues because it featured no wheels. Okay, you say, "so what?"
No, I don't say "so what?" I thought that too - not only the wheels, but especially no interior (meaning also no figures inside) because of the window slats. This should be much cheaper to produce, even considering the extra submarine parts, therefore would be a logical candidate for the cheaper issue 1.
But the lack of figures may also be the reason why it was not released as the first issue - the advertising emphasized the dioramas and figures. Although it doesn't matter here, Fabbri could have felt that issue 1 should include a figure.
Whoops!!!
"No, I don't say "so what?""
Hmm...perhaps I should purge my internet vocabulary of all the Manhattanisms and Bronxisms that my Dad passed along to me?
The first of these reasons was because they wanted a DB5 to be Issue 1. The DB5 is so Bondian that on my layout, which contains literally hundreds of cars, the first car in the parking lot of the East Side Station that EVERYONE notices is my Minichamps Goldfinger DB5. Whether they're familiar with Bond or not, they just know that it's "James Bond's car." I think that the collection starting out with a DB5 would've had that same effect of grabbing Bond fans and non-Bond fans alike.
The second reason I think they went with the DB5 first was because they wanted to establish it as a CAR collection. Say what you will, but even though the Esprit was a car in submarine mode, it had no wheels. How, from a marketing perspective, do you START a car collection featuring a vehicle without any wheels?
Then there's the recognition factor. While most British gearheads (and some American gearheads...) can instantly tell you "wow, cool, a Lotus Esprit!" as well as hardcore Bond fans, what about those in the middle? In other words, someone who wouldn't remember the Lotus Esprit and who would only remember the DB5. It's not without precedent, either, despite the Esprit's fame during the Roger Moore era. One guy who saw my layout was a genuine Bond fan who had seen all 22 films multiple times. He failed to recognize the famous 1961 Sunbeam Alpine (which I also have sitting in traffic on gridlocked Berlin Street, the nearest and most visible street to the person viewing my layout from right next to the control panel) because he just wasn't all that into cars and never really picked up anything from the films other than the Aston Martin DB5. He told me right then and there that it was the only car he really remembered from the films. If a genuine fan like him can't recognize the Esprit, then what about the casual fans...or maybe those who like the Connery flicks or the recent flicks while not really paying attention to Roger Moore? I think a lot of had to be, for various reasons "the DB5 had to be first to grab your attention."
The second reason I think they went with the DB5 first was because they wanted to establish it as a CAR collection. Say what you will, but even though the Esprit was a car in submarine mode, it had no wheels. How, from a marketing perspective, do you START a car collection featuring a vehicle without any wheels?"
Although i love lotus cars and have raced and owed 6 cars, including the lotus Esprit which i purchased, i think it was in 77, and yes it was white.
I 100% agree with you the Aston DB5 just had to be the first car in the collection,and as Aston has been so much associated with bond over the last 40-50 years.
RR Silver Shadow II TWINE
CHEVROLET C-10 Ambulance MOONRAKER
Range Rover Convertible Octopussy
£30 for the three including P&P PAYMENT BY PAYPAL If interested please PM and we can arrange details Many thanks
Not a lot of comments about the Bondola here ... I am really not a fan, mostly because it is not 1:43 scale. The tank was bad enough being 1:50, but this one is just all wrong.
The Bronco 2, whilst not that major a car in the film, is a pretty good model, especially at this price.
I think my take on this supports Dalkowski's point about the Bond-centric collectors and the car-centric collectors. I like Bond movies very very much and have seen all of them at least several times. However my collection is very much 1:43-based (with the odd 1:18), so this boat in some totally random scale is not really what I am into. PS, reopening the Zil/Escort 6 debate, I am very much looking forward to the Zil as I think it is a fascinating car, both in terms of design and also its political/ historical importance. However I think the Escort would make an interesting model, as to my knowledge no-one has ever modelled this car (apart from the rally version, which is quite different).
Each has their own collecting preference, but I really think the collection should have if nothing else stuck to 1:43 scale. B is for Bondola, B is for Box in the attic (where mine will remain while the 1:43s are mostly on display).
I think every model in the collection that are figureless, would have greatly benefited by this ,unless the scene dictated otherwise.For example,I have always disliked the Willys Jeep,but If there had been a couple of Henchmen sat in there ,I would have liked It a whole lot more,I suppose thats me probably being a Bond-centric.Same goes for the next model 105,Ford Squire,I'd love to see Bond setting in that.Anybody know if this model will feature any figures?
I'll remain neutral about the Bondola; I neither have one nor plan on buying one primarily because it just doesn't fit my collection. However, with that said, I do find it quite telling that outside of the surprisingly-poor-selling Ford Crown Victoria, it did NOT do well on eBay and was Ixo's second-poorest-selling model.
"PS, reopening the Zil/Escort 6 debate, I am very much looking forward to the Zil as I think it is a fascinating car, both in terms of design and also its political/ historical importance. However I think the Escort would make an interesting model, as to my knowledge no-one has ever modelled this car (apart from the rally version, which is quite different)."
Well, I never said I didn't want ANY form of Escort Mk. VI. If Ixo or Minichamps or Spark released one as part of their normal lineup, I'd definitely support that. In the 1/43 model car hobby in general, it's certainly under-represented. However, I still think THE most underrepresented car in 1/43 is the 1955 Chevy Bel Air 4-door Sedan. Enough with the '55 Bel Air Coupes and Convertibles. It's the first modern General Motors 4-door sedan and nobody makes one? Really? But I'm probably starting to go off track.
Again though, myhandle's post proves a point: I'm not alone in being a car-centric (though I do admit to being an extreme car-centric) within the more-than-casual Bond fan community. In other words, this is not just a bunch of car-centrics with no affinity for Bond at all buying out the ZIL-117's, La Salle/Miller Combination Coach hearses, and Ford Bronco II's. If you make an interesting model that has a connection with Bond, even in a relatively small role, then Bond fans (with admittedly car-centric tendencies) will still buy it. That's basically been my entire point.
"Each has their own collecting preference, but I really think the collection should have if nothing else stuck to 1:43 scale."
I agree, although we did see quite a bit of "Dinky 48'ing." Dad coined that term years ago to describe the Dinky Toys (and early Corgi Toys) practice of getting a model "about 1/48 scale" (which was Dinky's scale during their heyday from the mid 1950's to early-mid 1960's). The FRWL Bentley is about 1/40 scale, the Hispano-Suiza maybe 1/41 or 1/42 (ditto the '63 Chevy Impala), the Leyland Sherpa being about 1/45, etc. All nice models and I think they fall within the acceptable margin of error, though if we could have a do-over on them, it would be nice (don't worry, I know, never gonna happen).
"For example,I have always disliked the Willys Jeep"
I'm surprised no one noticed this, but we never had a Willys Jeep. Yes, you read that correctly: we never had a Willys Jeep. Take a close look at the model; especially at the headlights, tall square grille, and dual spare tires. I'm in complete agreement with the guys at IMCDB...it's an early Mahinda CJ-3B made in India...
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicle_195563-Mahindra-CJ-3B.html
"Anybody know if this model will feature any figures?"
I've not seen any prototypes, but remember: Ixo has thus far put figures into just two of its models. Whilst they couldn't help it with one of these due to licensing (the Ford Bronco II), I'm beginning to think Ixo will start delivering a lot of figureless models...unless, somehow, Fabbri's agreement with EON was or is starting to deteriorate regarding the use of characters (I'm genuinely beginning to wonder about this...look at the Rolls-Royce models produced by UH...even in the gorgeous Phantom III Sedanca de Ville, we saw Oddjob but not Auric Goldfinger...laziness or licensing issue?).
I like the term "Dinky 48-ing"! Inspired, and you're quite right about this collection. I thought the Bentley and Hispano Suiza might be OK as they are quite big cars, but it's not a massive surprise that they're too big. I noticed the Impala looked too small.
As for the Escort, I would not be surprised if Neo makes one, and if given another 5-10 years or so, Vanguards as well (they tend to make cars only when they've been out of production at least 15 years, with 3 or 4 exceptions). My collection is very varied, and my Escort appetite is satisfied by the Mk1 and Mk2 from Trofeu in both rally and road versions, the Mk3 XR3i from Vangards and the Minichamps RS Cosworth, rally and road. I would probably buy a Neo Mk6 if it was made and I could get it on eBay on sale for under £30 delivered (they normally start at £45+ and that's too much for me for a car I am not desperate to have), and almost certainly a Vanguards as they represent amazing value.
That's fairly off topic, but after a busy few weeks I am having a day thinking about model cars and looking at eBay!
Happy collecting
MH