Hello all, I have a small favour to ask - does anyone have the phone number for the James Bond Car Collection as it's no longer on their website. It seems the last 2 issues have arrived for everyone else, but mine have been lost in the post.
Many thanks in advance!
Can't you find this on the inside of the front cover of an earlier issue?
Hello all, I have a small favour to ask - does anyone have the phone number for the James Bond Car Collection as it's no longer on their website. It seems the last 2 issues have arrived for everyone else, but mine have been lost in the post.
Many thanks in advance!
Can't you find this on the inside of the front cover of an earlier issue?
The telephone number is 0871 277 0192
"Well I've got the first 11 issues of the DB5 collection and so far I am more satisfied that I have been with JBCC - at least you know when it will end!"
The model looked brilliant on the TV ad - just wondering (without delving into another forum) whether it's actually as good as it looked?
So far I have only assembled most of the engine, and it looks very nice and the finish quality of the parts is really good. You will find plenty of pictures of the build so far on Facebook if you are interested - the UK collectors are a few months' ahead of me. There is also a thread about the series on this forum. Although I'm not really into the accompanying magazines, their print quality is much better than that of JBCC too. I am only collecting this one as a one-off, not interested in having a 1/8 scale collection, so if they release any other large cars I'm not planning to sunscribe. The model looks great just the way it is, but because there is a 4-week wait between one lot and the next, there is a lot of time to research the parts and modify some of them to improve their accuracy even further. People on the partwork models forum have incredible buid diaries there, complete with pictures.
Which it won't get. Not because I don't want it to, but let's be realistic. As has been pointed out, most collectors are resigned to the fact that there will be 110 issues (not counting the replacement Anglia). Are there diehards that want more than 120 issues? Yes. Is there any way in heck we'd get figures with the models if we continued using Ixo? No. And switching back to U.H. would have everyone complaining about the models themselves. There's also Norev, but Fabbri cut ties with them a WHILE ago. I think the collection is just dragging out, it's not really Bond-themed anymore (although, thankfully, the Ixo models are turning out really nicely), and no company in its right mind listens to cyber-petitions because "stuffing" them is so easily done (not meant as an insult, but I am pointing to a well-documented fact...if wanted an actual petition that truly had force, you'd have to collect real signatures...and good luck with that!).
I actually gave a lot of thought to this post, but in the end, I just want the collection to end. I have other things to spend my money on, cars from earlier in the collection to get, duplicates to Code 3...unless the model is truly fantastic (and no, I would not consider a *tenth* Ixo UAZ-469B [since I already have a fleet of 'em] or an *eighth* Ixo Lada Niva [I have a fleet of those, too] to be "fantastic," since you could just buy one of the existing ones and Code 3 it REALLY easily to begin with), I don't even think a gift would be worth it, since I doubt Ixo is capable of doing one in the first place and U.H.'s relations with Fabbri appear to be horrible (and I'd say that they'd be even less capable, as we watched their model quality start spiralling downward).
"On this forum there have been a number of great suggestions."
There have been, but the trouble is, look at how obscure most are. The most well-known vehicle that has been suggested is the 1961 Chevrolet 30-Series "One-Tonner" flower truck from FRWL. Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in "Bondian" colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection.
Which it won't get. Not because I don't want it to, but let's be realistic. As has been pointed out, most collectors are resigned to the fact that there will be 110 issues (not counting the replacement Anglia). Are there diehards that want more than 120 issues? Yes. Is there any way in heck we'd get figures with the models if we continued using Ixo? No. And switching back to U.H. would have everyone complaining about the models themselves. There's also Norev, but Fabbri cut ties with them a WHILE ago. I think the collection is just dragging out, it's not really Bond-themed anymore (although, thankfully, the Ixo models are turning out really nicely), and no company in its right mind listens to cyber-petitions because "stuffing" them is so easily done (not meant as an insult, but I am pointing to a well-documented fact...if wanted an actual petition that truly had force, you'd have to collect real signatures...and good luck with that!).
I actually gave a lot of thought to this post, but in the end, I just want the collection to end. I have other things to spend my money on, cars from earlier in the collection to get, duplicates to Code 3...unless the model is truly fantastic (and no, I would not consider a *tenth* Ixo UAZ-469B [since I already have a fleet of 'em] or an *eighth* Ixo Lada Niva [I have a fleet of those, too] to be "fantastic," since you could just buy one of the existing ones and Code 3 it REALLY easily to begin with), I don't even think a gift would be worth it, since I doubt Ixo is capable of doing one in the first place and U.H.'s relations with Fabbri appear to be horrible (and I'd say that they'd be even less capable, as we watched their model quality start spiralling downward).
"On this forum there have been a number of great suggestions."
There have been, but the trouble is, look at how obscure most are. The most well-known vehicle that has been suggested is the 1961 Chevrolet 30-Series "One-Tonner" flower truck from FRWL. Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in "Bondian" colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection.
That'll be that then the voice has spoken. The world's shortest campaign.....I'll get my coat
Which it won't get. Not because I don't want it to, but let's be realistic. As has been pointed out, most collectors are resigned to the fact that there will be 110 issues (not counting the replacement Anglia). Are there diehards that want more than 120 issues? Yes. Is there any way in heck we'd get figures with the models if we continued using Ixo? No. And switching back to U.H. would have everyone complaining about the models themselves. There's also Norev, but Fabbri cut ties with them a WHILE ago. I think the collection is just dragging out, it's not really Bond-themed anymore (although, thankfully, the Ixo models are turning out really nicely), and no company in its right mind listens to cyber-petitions because "stuffing" them is so easily done (not meant as an insult, but I am pointing to a well-documented fact...if wanted an actual petition that truly had force, you'd have to collect real signatures...and good luck with that!).
I actually gave a lot of thought to this post, but in the end, I just want the collection to end. I have other things to spend my money on, cars from earlier in the collection to get, duplicates to Code 3...unless the model is truly fantastic (and no, I would not consider a *tenth* Ixo UAZ-469B [since I already have a fleet of 'em] or an *eighth* Ixo Lada Niva [I have a fleet of those, too] to be "fantastic," since you could just buy one of the existing ones and Code 3 it REALLY easily to begin with), I don't even think a gift would be worth it, since I doubt Ixo is capable of doing one in the first place and U.H.'s relations with Fabbri appear to be horrible (and I'd say that they'd be even less capable, as we watched their model quality start spiralling downward).
"On this forum there have been a number of great suggestions."
There have been, but the trouble is, look at how obscure most are. The most well-known vehicle that has been suggested is the 1961 Chevrolet 30-Series "One-Tonner" flower truck from FRWL. Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in "Bondian" colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection.
That'll be that then the voice has spoken. The world's shortest campaign.....I'll get my coat
LOL! - Don't give up all hope, I dare say Fabbri are well aware of the variety of opinions on this forum and are taking note. No doubt they're probably weighing up whether it's worth their while producing any more 'extras' or not and will act accordingly. They've surprised ALL of us in the past and may do so yet again. Personally, I'm guessing it's a case of 'it ain't over until the fat lady sings'!!
"I dare say Fabbri are well aware of the variety of opinions on this forum and are taking note."
But if you think about it...and that's why I said I'd thought quite carefully before making the post that was quoted...this is a double-edged sword. Yes, there are people who want the collection to continue, but many of these same people are ALSO subscribed to Fabbri's DB5 partwork. At this point, I can't imagine Fabbri turning a significant profit off the JBCC and then, you also have to consider that it's not just Fabbri. Fabbri has to find an ACCEPTABLE modelmaker to replace Ixo, who, as I now believe, made their models and pulled out at 109 in order to better fill orders for other partworks. And besides, Ixo wasn;t giving us figures or interesting dioramas. Then there's Universal Hobbies. Even if Fabbri can overcome the burnt bridges, UH's past several models have ranged from so-so to downright awful (with the notable exception of the superb Rolls-Royce Phantom III Sedanca de Ville). Why should we expect a quality improvement? And Fabbri basically told Norev to take a hike at the beginning of the series. The negotiations with another company to make acceptable quality models AND figures AND dioramas is not going to be easy. In fact, last time I checked, La Route Bleue's dioramas were actually made by a different firm than their cars! At the very least, it would take a long time to renegotiate those deals.
There is ONE way I could see Fabbri re-starting the JBCC. However, it is the ONLY way I could see them doing it: have an extension for when Bond 23 comes out. The DB5 partwork must also be finished and there could not be any other Bond-related partwork going on simultaneously. The series would mainly focus on Bond 23 cars, but also could be made to include some of the bigger things that were missed, such as the FRWL '61 Chevy 30-Series "One-Tonner", GF Mercedes-Benz 220S, TLD Wales & Edwards Rangemaster Milk Float, GE UAZ-469B, GE VAZ-2106 Russian Militisa Car, LTK Lincoln Mk. VII LSC, etc. That is the ONLY way I can see them doing any kind of extension.
I also can't see them doing it with figures due to the "No Daniel Craig" rule imposed on Fabbri, which will probably make a lot of people complain. Fabbri also sees us saying what awful dioramas we're getting and criticizing the company for lack of figures. They see many of us complaining, yet they're not doing anything about it. To a certain degree, although yes, they have to approve the models, I don't think they can control that either. It's just not Ixo's thing/they're not interested in doing anything but model cars (and they are succeeding quite well at that, I will give them that) and UH's designs have literally become lazy. I wonder if the lack of figures/poor dioramas (you might as well just buy the model on a plinth, to be honest, and save money) any kind of factor that might discourage them from producing any further models. They could solve this by saying "okay, we're done with the dioramas and figures and we're only doing vehicles," thus lowering the expectation on that part, and i guess I could see them doing that if they really wanted to make a Bond 23 update, but otherwise, well...I just don't think it's at all realistic to expect any more than the 110 models we're getting.
As for the GF Mercedes-Benz 220S, I wouldn't bet on it. However, as I said previously...
"Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in 'Bondian' colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection."
"I dare say Fabbri are well aware of the variety of opinions on this forum and are taking note."
But if you think about it...and that's why I said I'd thought quite carefully before making the post that was quoted...this is a double-edged sword. Yes, there are people who want the collection to continue, but many of these same people are ALSO subscribed to Fabbri's DB5 partwork. At this point, I can't imagine Fabbri turning a significant profit off the JBCC and then, you also have to consider that it's not just Fabbri. Fabbri has to find an ACCEPTABLE modelmaker to replace Ixo, who, as I now believe, made their models and pulled out at 109 in order to better fill orders for other partworks. And besides, Ixo wasn;t giving us figures or interesting dioramas. Then there's Universal Hobbies. Even if Fabbri can overcome the burnt bridges, UH's past several models have ranged from so-so to downright awful (with the notable exception of the superb Rolls-Royce Phantom III Sedanca de Ville). Why should we expect a quality improvement? And Fabbri basically told Norev to take a hike at the beginning of the series. The negotiations with another company to make acceptable quality models AND figures AND dioramas is not going to be easy. In fact, last time I checked, La Route Bleue's dioramas were actually made by a different firm than their cars! At the very least, it would take a long time to renegotiate those deals.
There is ONE way I could see Fabbri re-starting the JBCC. However, it is the ONLY way I could see them doing it: have an extension for when Bond 23 comes out. The DB5 partwork must also be finished and there could not be any other Bond-related partwork going on simultaneously. The series would mainly focus on Bond 23 cars, but also could be made to include some of the bigger things that were missed, such as the FRWL '61 Chevy 30-Series "One-Tonner", GF Mercedes-Benz 220S, TLD Wales & Edwards Rangemaster Milk Float, GE UAZ-469B, GE VAZ-2106 Russian Militisa Car, LTK Lincoln Mk. VII LSC, etc. That is the ONLY way I can see them doing any kind of extension.
I also can't see them doing it with figures due to the "No Daniel Craig" rule imposed on Fabbri, which will probably make a lot of people complain. Fabbri also sees us saying what awful dioramas we're getting and criticizing the company for lack of figures. They see many of us complaining, yet they're not doing anything about it. To a certain degree, although yes, they have to approve the models, I don't think they can control that either. It's just not Ixo's thing/they're not interested in doing anything but model cars (and they are succeeding quite well at that, I will give them that) and UH's designs have literally become lazy. I wonder if the lack of figures/poor dioramas (you might as well just buy the model on a plinth, to be honest, and save money) any kind of factor that might discourage them from producing any further models. They could solve this by saying "okay, we're done with the dioramas and figures and we're only doing vehicles," thus lowering the expectation on that part, and i guess I could see them doing that if they really wanted to make a Bond 23 update, but otherwise, well...I just don't think it's at all realistic to expect any more than the 110 models we're getting.
As for the GF Mercedes-Benz 220S, I wouldn't bet on it. However, as I said previously...
"Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in 'Bondian' colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection."
And Ixo does have the moulds, incidentally.
I would agree the collection as it is currently marketed, primarily in Britain, does appear to be coming to a definite end. And Fabbri may have injured, if not killed, the golden goose by starting the partwork DB5 too early.
The question is whether Fabbri have enough stocks left to re-launch the JBC collection elsewhere in the world, or enough stocks to sell to another company to re-launch. If that's the case, there would be another 2-3 year period of 're-issues' somewhere, which is more than enough time to commission and add any missing vehicles.
Us Brits though, would probably be left in the same position as others world-wide are at the moment, in having to look to eBay for any 'extras' that might crop up in the future.
Hello all, I have a small favour to ask - does anyone have the phone number for the James Bond Car Collection as it's no longer on their website. It seems the last 2 issues have arrived for everyone else, but mine have been lost in the post.
Many thanks in advance!
Can't you find this on the inside of the front cover of an earlier issue?
The telephone number is 0871 277 0192
"Well I've got the first 11 issues of the DB5 collection and so far I am more satisfied that I have been with JBCC - at least you know when it will end!"
The model looked brilliant on the TV ad - just wondering (without delving into another forum) whether it's actually as good as it looked?
"I would agree the collection as it is currently marketed, primarily in Britain, does appear to be coming to a definite end. And Fabbri may have injured, if not killed, the golden goose by starting the partwork DB5 too early.
The question is whether Fabbri have enough stocks left to re-launch the JBC collection elsewhere in the world, or enough stocks to sell to another company to re-launch. If that's the case, there would be another 2-3 year period of 're-issues' somewhere, which is more than enough time to commission and add any missing vehicles.
Us Brits though, would probably be left in the same position as others world-wide are at the moment, in having to look to eBay for any 'extras' that might crop up in the future."
I agree with all but one thing: that Fabbri would get the license to do it. To me, you get a company like Altaya or Atlas/DeAgostini that has a TON of experience marketing model cars that could better cater to the needs of the model car collector Fabbri. If Fabbri was smart, they would just sell the rights to DeAgostini or Altaya for a load of money, and then have the guys who concenetrate on marketing cars do just that.
I have to say I think that Fabbri will stop at 110. I also think that there is no chance of a free special at the end of a collection - why should they it would just cost them profit - and I can't see them thinking the investment in a paid for subscriber special with all the negotiations etc involved. Remember that it is the nature of all partworks to make the bulk of the profits on first half of collection and after that the numbers sold usually falls off. What Fabbri should have picked up on is the significant number of people buying selected models as back issues. My impression is that the numbers of these have increased recently possibly that is why they have removed phone number from site since all collections order fewer of each issue as the collection goes on.
I think that a part work of IXO standard US vehicles would sell like crazy here and would generate secondary purchases on a huge scale. This board is perhaps not the place for this discussion..
I have to say I think that Fabbri will stop at 110. I also think that there is no chance of a free special at the end of a collection - why should they it would just cost them profit - and I can't see them thinking the investment in a paid for subscriber special with all the negotiations etc involved. Remember that it is the nature of all partworks to make the bulk of the profits on first half of collection and after that the numbers sold usually falls off. What Fabbri should have picked up on is the significant number of people buying selected models as back issues. My impression is that the numbers of these have increased recently possibly that is why they have removed phone number from site since all collections order fewer of each issue as the collection goes on.
Completely agree. Incidentally, you still have tons and tons of subscribers for USSR AvtoLegende, Kultowe Auta PRL-u, Kultovni Auta CSSR, and Retroautok a Keleti Blokkbol, although the reason I think those partworks (or, at the very least, USSR AvtoLegende) do not have declining subscriptions is simply because Russia, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and Hungary haven't really had affordable model cars that were common on the streets when a majority of the subscribers were growing up before now. That's why I think DeAgostini and Ixo are sinking so many model designs and so much money into that market. Although I do think subscribers will get a free gift of sorts: the corrected Ford Anglia.
I think that a part work of IXO standard US vehicles would sell like crazy here and would generate secondary purchases on a huge scale. This board is perhaps not the place for this discussion..
Depends on the type of cars. Muscle cars and to a lesser extent pony cars have been done to death (well, not all of them, but a great number of them...I'd like to see an AMC AMX, a Yenko Chevelle, a Dodge Charger Daytona, an AMC Rebel Machine, and a 1968 or 1969 Ford Torino...the El Camino SS's have also been truly neglected), but if you mean 1960's sedans, wagons, vans, pickups...THAT would sell.
So far I have only assembled most of the engine, and it looks very nice and the finish quality of the parts is really good. You will find plenty of pictures of the build so far on Facebook if you are interested - the UK collectors are a few months' ahead of me. There is also a thread about the series on this forum. Although I'm not really into the accompanying magazines, their print quality is much better than that of JBCC too. I am only collecting this one as a one-off, not interested in having a 1/8 scale collection, so if they release any other large cars I'm not planning to sunscribe. The model looks great just the way it is, but because there is a 4-week wait between one lot and the next, there is a lot of time to research the parts and modify some of them to improve their accuracy even further. People on the partwork models forum have incredible buid diaries there, complete with pictures.
I concur with this all the way. the model should be about two feet in length when finished. the parts order is a ballache, meaning you have to carefully store any bits you have built for long periods of time, but so far I have had no qualms about the collection, quality or dispatch. Fortunately i'm in a position where i can afford to pay for both this car collection and the db5 (which being a 22 year old uni graduate is quite an achievement). the magazine print quality on the db5 is more professional than the jbcc but the content is defo a read once only and the file it away type of affair. well, that's my opinion anyway. i'm not into modifying the db5 kit to make it "more realistic" even though i'm a product designer. i'm a great believer of keeping things original. however, if some nearly-complete kits come up on ebay nearer the time of completion, i may buy another and mod it (depending how well others "mods" go).......
"i'm a great believer of keeping things original."
Trust me when I say that the more you get into model car collecting, you'll find that well-done Code 3's often not only look better than the original vehicle, but have more value. Sometimes said Code 3'er can be a larger customizer (early Verem, for example, now goes for off-the-charts prices, and ICV Models in Russia goes for roughly 8 times what you'd buy the regular car for, and that's climbing) or simply a one-off modelmaker who does expert work (some of the guys that customized the early Brooklin models; you'll find their work going for FAR more than the original cars). I don't believe one can draw an analogy to Dinky or early Corgi where they were played with very heavily...today's models, if not kept screwed to a plinth, are usually at the very least part of a static display and cleaned regularly. Look at Solido, Vitesse, Eligor, Norev, and Corgi from the 1980's for examples of what I mean. You'd think most of them were made yesterday. What I'm trying to say is that Code 3'ing usually doesn't destroy value, can improve it if well-done enough, and certainly will help regarding details if you've got a correct prototype to begin with. As a Bond example, I would recommend painting in the clear-plastic panels that make up the C-pillar on the Ford Fairlane 500 Skyliner Hardtop Convertible with silver, oil-based paint. The car will look much more realistic and a bit nicer. Also, the "removing the headlights and painting the backs silver" bit is a great way for realism. You could even use gold paint provided the lights are small enough to give the illusion of having the headlights turned on (I would recommend trying this with the YOLT '66 Toyopet Crown RS41, with the base label reading "Toyota Crown"). Detailing the hubcaps is another great way to go; I'd recommend this with the GAZ-31029 Volga from GE and MP Lafer Roadster from MR to give the model much less "toy-like" wheels. Also, if you know what you're doing and have accurate interior photos, you could always paint the interiors of the UH models!
I have to say I think that Fabbri will stop at 110. I also think that there is no chance of a free special at the end of a collection - why should they it would just cost them profit - and I can't see them thinking the investment in a paid for subscriber special with all the negotiations etc involved. Remember that it is the nature of all partworks to make the bulk of the profits on first half of collection and after that the numbers sold usually falls off. What Fabbri should have picked up on is the significant number of people buying selected models as back issues. My impression is that the numbers of these have increased recently possibly that is why they have removed phone number from site since all collections order fewer of each issue as the collection goes on.
I think that a part work of IXO standard US vehicles would sell like crazy here and would generate secondary purchases on a huge scale. This board is perhaps not the place for this discussion..
Who said it should be free? Not me ? I think it should be sold to those who want it with priority given to subscribers. If GEF market correctly, get the price right and the model or models right. This could be a winner. I certainly would be happy to pay more than £7.99 . I pay upwards of £12.99 for corgi vanguards as they are released so more for this concept would be acceptable to me.
The part work has undermined the collection. Anybody subscribing to the part work must have more money than sense. These type of subscriptions have been highlighted by newspaper consumer campaigns and even on BBC watchdog. I don't doubt the quality but it will be only as good as the builder.
I think GEF were anticipating like us all a Bond 23 to be included in the collection. As that movie is yet to be confirmed time has moved on and we are approaching the 110. There is enough models to continue the collection well into 2012 encompassing the likely bond 23 announcement.
I have siad before the collection has come to a timely end but i still feel strongly GEF have not honoured the free gifts and specials as outlined at the start hence may campaign for 111.
Bond 23 is to be released on 9 November 2012, so perhaps a little too far down the line for any connection to the JBCC. 110 issues isn't a bad run for a partwork, though, not that many partworks can sustain such a momentum.
I agree with your sentiments on the GF DB5 partwork, Diecast007 - construction partworks are definitely not for me either. I don't think that partwork is going to be nearly as popular as the JBCC.
Just an update on the DAF Econoline (now sold) and LTK RR models on eBay being offered in original packing - the seller subsequently updated his descriptions to say that the magazines were NOT part of the auctions, which changes things a bit. He also removed the issue numbers that were also part of the original descriptions.
EDIT:
I was glad to see the issue that was skipped in SA, the TSWLM Ford Taunus, available as this week's issue when I popped into the newsgent earlier. I was worried that the wait for it might be longer, owing to the apparent low stocks.
In the flesh it appears to be a fair little model of the Taunus/Cortina Mk.4, although the interior is very basic. From a model collector's perspective it is not as good as the Corgi Vanguards model of the British version which was released in Feb of this year, but that model does cost twice as much.
"110 issues isn't a bad run for a partwork, though, not that many partworks can sustain such a momentum."
"I agree with your sentiments on the GF DB5 partwork, Diecast007 - construction partworks are definitely not for me either. I don't think that partwork is going to be nearly as popular as the JBCC."
I agree with both of FACT's statements here. 110 is a pretty good run for a non-East Bloc partwork and frankly, I can only think of one that's lasted longer (not counting the confirmed-to-be-more-than-125 Kultowe Auta PRL-u...and it may very well surpass USSR AvtoLegende, which I think will stop around 80-85, though its "sister series", Avtomobili na Sluzhba, will run at least 25 issues and possibly up to 50): La Route Bleue. If the JBCC had been marketed like La Route Bleue had been, with Altaya in control and basically picking and choosing model car manufacturers at will (we've seen Ixo, U.H., Norev, Eligor, and even Brumm in that series), whilst having a seperate manufacturer do the (very creative and NEVER dull) dioramas and figures...I wonder how the JBCC would have turned out. If we had to do it all over again, I mean. More cars? Doubtful. But better-quality cars and dioramas? I would think so. And if there is any chance of reviving a JBCC style partwork in 1/43, I think it would lie with a company like Altaya or, alternately, Atlas/DeAgostini.
I also agree with the statements regarding the DB5 partwork. Simply put, not many model car collectors go for a 1/8 scale car unless they absolutely love the thing. They can try it once, but I don't think it will go over well a second time. The lukewarm reception given to the GAZ-M20 Pobeda sedan that was basically DeAgostini's answer to the DB5 to be tested in Russia was VERY telling when looked at from a pure model car collector's point of view. As a friend told me, "if I want a big car, I'll buy Ist or Nash Avtoprom 1/18 scale. I can wait for the [GAZ-21] Volga and [GAZ-13] Chayka to come out. And I heard they'll be making a Pobeda. [1/18 scale]'s detailed enough for me."
As I said, I find it very telling and don't think they can get away with it twice.
BTW, if Rainer Wolfcastle is reading this, I'm still looking forward to reading the next installment of your French Connection series, when you have the time - you were still going to share with us your BMW Z4's if I'm not mistaken?
Hello FACT, I am sorry for the delay and will surely post the Z8 pictures once I find more time.
FACT, a little back you said that you didn't buy the Little Nellie because she is not 1/43. I can assure you that she is. Main rotor diameter is 6.20 m and length is 3.38 m on the real thing which makes 144.2 mm and 78.6 mm in 1/43. And the model checks out exactly (if you don't include the tube on the nose which I think was added for the film).
My next delivery will include the Ford Anglia ... soon we will see if the text has been changed.
I have to say I think that Fabbri will stop at 110. I also think that there is no chance of a free special at the end of a collection - why should they it would just cost them profit - and I can't see them thinking the investment in a paid for subscriber special with all the negotiations etc involved. Remember that it is the nature of all partworks to make the bulk of the profits on first half of collection and after that the numbers sold usually falls off. What Fabbri should have picked up on is the significant number of people buying selected models as back issues. My impression is that the numbers of these have increased recently possibly that is why they have removed phone number from site since all collections order fewer of each issue as the collection goes on.
I think that a part work of IXO standard US vehicles would sell like crazy here and would generate secondary purchases on a huge scale. This board is perhaps not the place for this discussion..
Who said it should be free? Not me ? I think it should be sold to those who want it with priority given to subscribers. If GEF market correctly, get the price right and the model or models right. This could be a winner. I certainly would be happy to pay more than £7.99 . I pay upwards of £12.99 for corgi vanguards as they are released so more for this concept would be acceptable to me.
The part work has undermined the collection. Anybody subscribing to the part work must have more money than sense. These type of subscriptions have been highlighted by newspaper consumer campaigns and even on BBC watchdog. I don't doubt the quality but it will be only as good as the builder.
I think GEF were anticipating like us all a Bond 23 to be included in the collection. As that movie is yet to be confirmed time has moved on and we are approaching the 110. There is enough models to continue the collection well into 2012 encompassing the likely bond 23 announcement.
I have siad before the collection has come to a timely end but i still feel strongly GEF have not honoured the free gifts and specials as outlined at the start hence may campaign for 111.
It is true that the DB5 partwork has undermined the collection. But I disagree that you have to have more money than sense to subscribe to it. In fact, I think that the DB5 model is much more likely to appreciate in value than the JBCC - in part at least precisely because it has a much more limited appeal and fewer subscribers. In addition, you know at the very beginning how much issues there is going to be - there is no way the publisher can extend it a few times at will, so it allows you to budget straight away. And the quality of the parts is infinitely better than the UH models, and even IXO. Finally, unlike most build partworks, you do not need any paint or even glue to build the DB5 - just a screwdriver, so it is really easy even you you have never before built a kit model. It is much better than the 1/24 scale Danbury Mint DB5, and in 1/18 scale none of the 007 DB5's comes even close to the Danbury Mint one. So there is no point blaming the new collection - The JBCC has simply run its course. I agree that Fabbri should have offered more free gifts, but in the end it is all about profit, so am not surprised they decided not to, having secured so many captive customers who subscribed nevertheless.
I have to say I think that Fabbri will stop at 110. I also think that there is no chance of a free special at the end of a collection - why should they it would just cost them profit - and I can't see them thinking the investment in a paid for subscriber special with all the negotiations etc involved. Remember that it is the nature of all partworks to make the bulk of the profits on first half of collection and after that the numbers sold usually falls off. What Fabbri should have picked up on is the significant number of people buying selected models as back issues. My impression is that the numbers of these have increased recently possibly that is why they have removed phone number from site since all collections order fewer of each issue as the collection goes on.
I think that a part work of IXO standard US vehicles would sell like crazy here and would generate secondary purchases on a huge scale. This board is perhaps not the place for this discussion..
Who said it should be free? Not me ? I think it should be sold to those who want it with priority given to subscribers. If GEF market correctly, get the price right and the model or models right. This could be a winner. I certainly would be happy to pay more than £7.99 . I pay upwards of £12.99 for corgi vanguards as they are released so more for this concept would be acceptable to me.
The part work has undermined the collection. Anybody subscribing to the part work must have more money than sense. These type of subscriptions have been highlighted by newspaper consumer campaigns and even on BBC watchdog. I don't doubt the quality but it will be only as good as the builder.
I think GEF were anticipating like us all a Bond 23 to be included in the collection. As that movie is yet to be confirmed time has moved on and we are approaching the 110. There is enough models to continue the collection well into 2012 encompassing the likely bond 23 announcement.
I have siad before the collection has come to a timely end but i still feel strongly GEF have not honoured the free gifts and specials as outlined at the start hence may campaign for 111.
It is true that the DB5 partwork has undermined the collection. But I disagree that you have to have more money than sense to subscribe to it. In fact, I think that the DB5 model is much more likely to appreciate in value than the JBCC - in part at least precisely because it has a much more limited appeal and fewer subscribers. In addition, you know at the very beginning how much issues there is going to be - there is no way the publisher can extend it a few times at will, so it allows you to budget straight away. And the quality of the parts is infinitely better than the UH models, and even IXO. Finally, unlike most build partworks, you do not need any paint or even glue to build the DB5 - just a screwdriver, so it is really easy even you you have never before built a kit model. It is much better than the 1/24 scale Danbury Mint DB5, and in 1/18 scale none of the 007 DB5's comes even close to the Danbury Mint one. So there is no point blaming the new collection - The JBCC has simply run its course. I agree that Fabbri should have offered more free gifts, but in the end it is all about profit, so am not surprised they decided not to, having secured so many captive customers who subscribed nevertheless.
I dont think a completed part work will be worth anywhere near what it cost to build. Part works are pure profiteering as you have to continue to complete the model. At least JBCC and others you stop whenever and still have something to show for it. This collection has been undermined one should have stopped before the other started . I for one would have considered the part work on completion of the JBCC even when I think generally they are over priced kits.
Again I will state I am not looking for freebies , I am looking for GEF to honour the specials that we agreed to when signing up to the subscription. I ahve collected other diecast collections and every so often an extra special would arrive at a cost over and above the regular issues. It added an extra dimension to the collection and surprise value. There were some real gems that were fantastic. GEF have a missed a real opportunity for more profit with captive customers who are keen for more . ??
Hello FACT, I am sorry for the delay and will surely post the Z8 pictures once I find more time.
FACT, a little back you said that you didn't buy the Little Nellie because she is not 1/43. I can assure you that she is. Main rotor diameter is 6.20 m and length is 3.38 m on the real thing which makes 144.2 mm and 78.6 mm in 1/43. And the model checks out exactly (if you don't include the tube on the nose which I think was added for the film).
Thanks Rainier, and no worries, I can understand how much time must go into uploading photos, etc.
Hmmm, looks like I'll have to take a look at Little Nellie again. If I decide to add it I know there are some diorama backgrounds available many pages back in this thread, but if I remember correctly those were for the standard-sized box, but I'm thinking that the long Ixo boxes are probably going to be more suitable than those ones. It should be easy enough to get a Little Nellie as there are still plenty of them on eBay.
It is true that the DB5 partwork has undermined the collection. But I disagree that you have to have more money than sense to subscribe to it. In fact, I think that the DB5 model is much more likely to appreciate in value than the JBCC - in part at least precisely because it has a much more limited appeal and fewer subscribers. In addition, you know at the very beginning how much issues there is going to be - there is no way the publisher can extend it a few times at will, so it allows you to budget straight away. And the quality of the parts is infinitely better than the UH models, and even IXO. Finally, unlike most build partworks, you do not need any paint or even glue to build the DB5 - just a screwdriver, so it is really easy even you you have never before built a kit model. It is much better than the 1/24 scale Danbury Mint DB5, and in 1/18 scale none of the 007 DB5's comes even close to the Danbury Mint one. So there is no point blaming the new collection - The JBCC has simply run its course. I agree that Fabbri should have offered more free gifts, but in the end it is all about profit, so am not surprised they decided not to, having secured so many captive customers who subscribed nevertheless.
OK, fair enough, it is probably a good model for what you get and it does indeed have the advantages you list, except that I'm not convinced that it is going to appreciate in value ... more than the JBCC maybe, but surely not compared to its own cost. In the UK the all-up cost prior to assembly is just under £600 - I think collectors will be lucky just to get their money back.
I think a fair comparison is one of Minigeff's 1/18 "Limited Edition 1 of 3" QoS DBS models, which reached £270 on auction two years ago: http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/32852/for-sale-118-aston-martin-dbs-quantum-of-solace-with-damage/
But I reckon JBCC collectors are in the same boat - some models are in demand and can fetch high prices, but others are dogs that will have to be offloaded for pennies.
"except that I'm not convinced that it is going to appreciate in value ... more than the JBCC maybe, but surely not compared to its own cost. In the UK the all-up cost prior to assembly is just under £600 - I think collectors will be lucky just to get their money back."
"But I reckon JBCC collectors are in the same boat - some models are in demand and can fetch high prices, but others are dogs that will have to be offloaded for pennies."
Once again, I'm going to have to agree with most of what FACT has to say. Partwork kits do NOT tend to appreciate in value the way a lot of people expect them to. Look at all of the model airplane partworks people are trying to sell on eBay for even less than one would expect a really good, unbuilt Tamiya or Hasegawa model airplane to go for (or Planet Models, if you're into "Luftwaffe 1946" type stuff). And yes, that includes the really-nicely-made ones. Car kit partworks may be new to the market, but airplane kit partworks aren't.
Another thing you have to deal with is actually packing up and shipping the thing if you want to sell it via the internet (i.e. where you can make the most money, since you're going to have to knock down the price at hobby show). Even if you're selling in-country, you're going to have to charge a load of money for shipping; something the buyer might balk at. The model, as stated, is about two feet long!
Then there's the cost of the model to YOU, as FACT mentions: about 600 GBP. I can't speak for the future, because Ixo may very well decide to mass produce it, but why, pray tell, are the La Salle/Miller Hearses going for on average of 30 GBP? If you happen to have twenty of them laying around (and some dealers do!), you could potentially turn around just 20 models for the full cost of the DB5 partwork. As FACT essentially states, this collection has its share of turkeys and its share of gems. Sure, you're not going to make much with Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II's, but imagine selling via eBay ten Ford Country Squires, ten ZIL-117's, and ten La Salle/Miller Hearses outside of the UK (think of the US and the former East Bloc). Somehow, I see that as being pretty successful; more successful than selling one DB5 partwork kit. Will the DB5 appreciate more than the JBCC down the line? To be honest...it depends on the market. Who are you selling to, car-centrics like me or Bond-centrics? If the latter, yes, the DB5 is going to appreciate more, but how about the former? I really doubt it. And either way...in which country are they located? If the US, I'll bet the shipping costs will deter a LOT of buyers thinking of buying the finished product.
Also, here's another factor that I think has been overlooked and that alienates the car-centrics (and I'll get to why I think car-centrics are a big deal in a moment): the scale of the DB5 (1/8) is not widely collected AT ALL. For anyone who thinks that doesn't matter, look at China's attempts to market a fully-built GAZ-12 ZIM Limousine in 1/12 scale in Russia. A BEAUTIFUL model that I had the good fortune to examine in person...but you know what? Not too many people bought it (and I was one of those people that put it back onto the shelf) because it was not in any kind of regular scale. A 1/18 collector has enough trouble accepting 1/24 models...what makes you think he'll spring for 1/12 or 1/8? And that's saying nothing of the 1/43 collectors that started following the JBCC simply because it was in 1/43. To be honest, if they had made this in 1/18 scale, I actually think they would have gotten a far bigger market, since 1/18 scale collectors, in my experience, tend to be the most hardcore car-centrics (closely followed by us 1/43 guys, of course...). But I think this car's scale will hurt it in the long run, not help it, at least when trying to make a pitch to the car-centrics. But why do car-centrics matter so much, you ask? Because I would estimate that they currently form about half of the JBCC's sales. Granted, this is all guesswork on all of our parts regarding appreciation, but I'll ask you this: what accessories, dioramas, and various and sundry other "scenes" can you add the DB5 kit to? Yes, I know it's meant to be displayed on its own. So were the first 1/18 scale cars...and as any 1/18 scale collector knows, that didn't exactly work out as planned. But the figure-makers responded and there are TONS of 1/18 scale accessories that ultimately boosted the scale's sales. But the difference is this: there were a whole bunch of 1/18 scale cars planned all at once for release. There's ONE 1/8 scale car planned.
"except that I'm not convinced that it is going to appreciate in value ... more than the JBCC maybe, but surely not compared to its own cost. In the UK the all-up cost prior to assembly is just under £600 - I think collectors will be lucky just to get their money back."
"But I reckon JBCC collectors are in the same boat - some models are in demand and can fetch high prices, but others are dogs that will have to be offloaded for pennies."
Once again, I'm going to have to agree with most of what FACT has to say. Partwork kits do NOT tend to appreciate in value the way a lot of people expect them to. Look at all of the model airplane partworks people are trying to sell on eBay for even less than one would expect a really good, unbuilt Tamiya or Hasegawa model airplane to go for (or Planet Models, if you're into "Luftwaffe 1946" type stuff). And yes, that includes the really-nicely-made ones. Car kit partworks may be new to the market, but airplane kit partworks aren't.
Another thing you have to deal with is actually packing up and shipping the thing if you want to sell it via the internet (i.e. where you can make the most money, since you're going to have to knock down the price at hobby show). Even if you're selling in-country, you're going to have to charge a load of money for shipping; something the buyer might balk at. The model, as stated, is about two feet long!
Then there's the cost of the model to YOU, as FACT mentions: about 600 GBP. I can't speak for the future, because Ixo may very well decide to mass produce it, but why, pray tell, are the La Salle/Miller Hearses going for on average of 30 GBP? If you happen to have twenty of them laying around (and some dealers do!), you could potentially turn around just 20 models for the full cost of the DB5 partwork. As FACT essentially states, this collection has its share of turkeys and its share of gems. Sure, you're not going to make much with Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II's, but imagine selling via eBay ten Ford Country Squires, ten ZIL-117's, and ten La Salle/Miller Hearses outside of the UK (think of the US and the former East Bloc). Somehow, I see that as being pretty successful; more successful than selling one DB5 partwork kit. Will the DB5 appreciate more than the JBCC down the line? To be honest...it depends on the market. Who are you selling to, car-centrics like me or Bond-centrics? If the latter, yes, the DB5 is going to appreciate more, but how about the former? I really doubt it. And either way...in which country are they located? If the US, I'll bet the shipping costs will deter a LOT of buyers thinking of buying the finished product.
Also, here's another factor that I think has been overlooked and that alienates the car-centrics (and I'll get to why I think car-centrics are a big deal in a moment): the scale of the DB5 (1/8) is not widely collected AT ALL. For anyone who thinks that doesn't matter, look at China's attempts to market a fully-built GAZ-12 ZIM Limousine in 1/12 scale in Russia. A BEAUTIFUL model that I had the good fortune to examine in person...but you know what? Not too many people bought it (and I was one of those people that put it back onto the shelf) because it was not in any kind of regular scale. A 1/18 collector has enough trouble accepting 1/24 models...what makes you think he'll spring for 1/12 or 1/8? And that's saying nothing of the 1/43 collectors that started following the JBCC simply because it was in 1/43. To be honest, if they had made this in 1/18 scale, I actually think they would have gotten a far bigger market, since 1/18 scale collectors, in my experience, tend to be the most hardcore car-centrics (closely followed by us 1/43 guys, of course...). But I think this car's scale will hurt it in the long run, not help it, at least when trying to make a pitch to the car-centrics. But why do car-centrics matter so much, you ask? Because I would estimate that they currently form about half of the JBCC's sales. Granted, this is all guesswork on all of our parts regarding appreciation, but I'll ask you this: what accessories, dioramas, and various and sundry other "scenes" can you add the DB5 kit to? Yes, I know it's meant to be displayed on its own. So were the first 1/18 scale cars...and as any 1/18 scale collector knows, that didn't exactly work out as planned. But the figure-makers responded and there are TONS of 1/18 scale accessories that ultimately boosted the scale's sales. But the difference is this: there were a whole bunch of 1/18 scale cars planned all at once for release. There's ONE 1/8 scale car planned.
My sentiments exactly, It's the wrong scale and too expensive. There was a part collection to build a radio controlled Subaru impreza it worked out on completion three times as much as top of the range Tamiya or Kyosho equivalent. The completed model was no better than than a top end toy as opposed to the serious models made by Tamiya and Kyosho. Many people did not complete the car . This car certainly has appeal but only to the builder . It will not appreciate in value i guarantee it will be worthless on completion yet some of the JBCC collection will continue to appreciate and it wont be the obvious ones
I should just add that the issue of the value of the JBCC is merely academic to me as I don't see myself wanting to sell off my collection anytime soon ... although I might dispose of one or two duplicates I got along the way.
Of course there haven't been any sales of complete collections as yet as there are still four models to go, so the going price for a complete collection remains to be seen - it would have cost about £875 (109 x £7.99 + the initial issue).
There have been many sales of partial collections on eBay so far - there's one on right now for issues 1 - 65 which would have cost in the region of £520 but is listed with an opening price of £275 (or £4.23 an issue). That seller isn't even trying to get back his money, he's just trying to get back something
But the biggest problem with a complete collection sale is going to be the postage - Dalko also mentions postage issues in his post earlier.
As with many 1:1 cars, this collection may be worth more in parts than as a complete thing.
"I should just add that the issue of the value of the JBCC is merely academic to me as I don't see myself wanting to sell off my collection anytime soon"
I completely agree with this. My interest too isn't purely academic, but it's also not from a seller's standpoint; it's from the standpoint of a US buyer.
"As with many 1:1 cars, this collection may be worth more in parts than as a complete thing."
I also completely agree with this. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying in your first post; my point was that INDIVIDUAL models of the JBCC (especially things like the La Salle/Miller Hearse, Cadillac Hearse, Ford Country Squire, and ZIL-117) could appreciate in value far more compared to their purchase prices than could the DB5 partwork. Your point, which I agree with, is that the ENTIRE COLLECTION is not going to appreciate very well due to the presence of a number of turkeys early on as well as the horrendous shipping costs. So we're in agreement. Also, as you say, it's likely worth more in parts than as a whole. You can't really get away with that with the DB5 partwork.
"It's the wrong scale and too expensive."
This I do agree with.
"There was a part collection to build a radio controlled Subaru impreza it worked out on completion three times as much as top of the range Tamiya or Kyosho equivalent. The completed model was no better than than a top end toy as opposed to the serious models made by Tamiya and Kyosho. Many people did not complete the car ."
This analogy; I don't really agree with. I'm not familiar with this car. Did it use screws or was it a glue-together? Still, just because this unrelated car was lousy doesn't mean the DB5 will automatically be lousy. Typically, the highest-quality partwork kits have been airplanes, and they were truly very nicely done. My point was that simply put, they were depreciating despite all the work and research put into them. They were fine models that were on the level of Tamiya and Hasegawa; just *way* overpriced. You have to look at a number of partwork kits...especially the really nice ones...to get a better picture.
"This car certainly has appeal but only to the builder."
This depends on the person. As a hardcore 1/32, 1/48, and 1/72 scale aircraft builder, I DO find well-built models to be attractive and do purchase them on occassion (of course, they've also been glued together, painted, and decaled by people who make them look like the real thing shrunk down 32, 48, or 72 times). Of course, anything by my Dad or his best friend (who truly taught me how to build airplane kits) I absolutely treasure. But a built model where I could do a better or equal job is not something that would impress me and I myself would not purchase said model. As I said, this will depend on the person.
"It will not appreciate in value[...]"
Based on my experiences, I really doubt it will.
"i guarantee it will be worthless on completion"
Don't you think that's more than a bit over the line? I mean, even factoring in massive depreciation, I can't really see it going for any less than about 200 GBP.
"yet some of the JBCC collection will continue to appreciate and it wont be the obvious ones"
This I agree with, although I will stress to avoid confusion that I'm speaking about individual cars and not the entire JBCC.
Diecast 007 - you say you are not looking for freebies but for specials - can you give us an example? If you have to pay for it, then what is the difference between a special and a regular release? We had been told that the collection would be 40 issues long, so perhaps you can call all 70 issues after the first 40 specials? 8-)
FACT - as to the appreciation in value, there are a lot of factors to consider, many of which cannot be predicted at this stage, so with any partwork it is a gamble. I do not think that the DB5 will lose value - it is so much better than smaller models, so it can be expected to be more expensive. But, like with JBCC or any partwork, if the publisher decides to re-issue it every couple of years (and possibly at lower prices), then it can seriously affect the value, and I simply hope it's not gonna happen, though I have no control over this. Please note that by just buying JBCC you do not add any value to the collection, but by putting the DB5 kit together you do - Fabbri offer to sell a completed model in the UK for more than twice the price of the parts.
Dalkowski - the DB5 is very different from other kit partworks. The aeroplanes/ships usually offered require you to cut, paint and glue the parts, so the build quality will vary greatly, depending on an individual's skills. With the DB5 there is no real reason why almost all kits should not look identical (unless you manage to use your screwdriver to scratch the paintwork, of course). Plus some experienced modellers are doing amazing things to improve their model too. And let's remember than the Diamond Cars version (also 1/8 scale) is much more expensive (and in the pictures the interior, for instance, looks nowhere near as detailed). The ZIM limo is a different story - personally, I would never, ever get any other 1/8 scale model. It's not my scale, it's expensive, and if you wanted a real collection in this scale you'd need a palace to be able to have enough room to display it. I am buying the DB5 because it is "The Most Famous Car in the World" and definitely as a one-off in this scale. By the way, there are Pocher kits in 1/8 scale available, and they fetch similar prices as this partwork - even though they come unpainted (as far as I know). I am actually glad that the car is not in the 1/18 scale. A number of manufacturers already make 007 Astons in 1/18, so why another one? From my experience models that appreciate in value the most are the ones that are somehow different from all the rest, not similar. Let's wait and see - only time will tell. If the kit is a commercial success to Fabbri, then the value is not likely to appreciate. But if only few people subscribe, then in a few years this will be a true rarity... so thank you, Diecast007 for NOT subscribing! ):))
Having said that, I am collecting the DB5 for enjoyment value too - not planning to sell it any time soon.
And now we can go back to the main topic - 1/43 scale JBCC!!! ):)):))
Looks like IXO will be releasing a number of the cars for JBCC in their Premium X range. Pics of Econoline in two colours, Bronco II with mirrors etc, and Country Squire in two other colours have been shown on an Australian web site.
"I do not think that the DB5 will lose value - it is so much better than smaller models, so it can be expected to be more expensive."
I know this was directed at FACT, but since I'm in full agreement with FACT's statement, I think I'll give this one a try regarding a rebuttal. How is it better than smaller models? After all, as I estimated (and I don't think you contested...correct me if I'm wrong, of course), about half of the remaining JBCC collectors are car-centrics who collect in one or possibly two scales. They collect 1/43 because it's "their" scale, not necessarily because of detail. Or 1/24. Or 1/18. Of course the bigger the car, the more the detail...but then, why do 1/43-only collectors (and indeed, the legions of 1/87-only collectors in Germany) exist in the first place if they have space for stuff like 1/24 and 1/18 scale? And where is the desire on the part of a car-centric to add a third scale, regardless of detail (and I know you answered this in your response to me, but I will get to that in a few sentences)? If you think it won't lose value just because it's more detailed, I suggest looking at such spectacular failures like Revell's line of 1/32 scale biplanes. Oh sure, they were detailed (certainly more so than any WWI or Inter-War era biplanes in 1/32 I can think of), but they failed because there was essentially no market niche and biplanes typically interest only the most advanced modelists on a large scale. I will grant you the reason for failure is not why I predict the DB5 to fall short of your expectations, but just meant to be illustrative that simply because a product has more detail, it's not guaranteed to succeed.
"The aeroplanes/ships usually offered require you to cut, paint and glue the parts, so the build quality will vary greatly, depending on an individual's skills."
Paint and glue? Yes. Cuttting required? I wouldn't say usually. Often, but not usually. And I will grant you that the finished product will vary greatly on an individual's skill. However, the question I'm asking is "why are even the best-built examples going for the same as the ones that were shoddily built?"
"With the DB5 there is no real reason why almost all kits should not look identical"
There's a bit of a double-edged sword to this. Literally all modellers I know want to put their own unique touches on their models...bullet-holes, their own special paint mixtures, modifying the tires, buying a resin cockpit and mixing and matching (because sometimes, the stock kits do actually get it right), etc. If you're someone like this, where's the appeal in the DB5 for you? Of course, the guys I associate with build almost exclusively airplanes and if they don't, then they build WWII-era military vehicles. The other bit I think is very important that deserves a mention here is that I know more than a few modellers who look upon screw builds as an insult to their ability. I'm not one of them (having completed a Moraine-Saulnier MS.406 that I plan on detailing in KG200 colors and totally re-doing the landing gear, since the fun part to me is painting and modifying all of it...plus most of the screw-togethers cost next to nothing), but they are out there and I would even say that with most of the expert level guys I've met, it's an actual majority. Their view...and indeed my view...of a screw-together that's pre-painted where you're modifying it that it's closer to Code 3'ing (which I have nothing against) than an actual kit modification. Please...don't confuse me for a hobby snob (I get enough of that for "wasting my time" building Hobbycraft, Huma, old Revell/Monogram, and Airfix models, though I do find it amusing regarding the proverbial pats on the back I get when I build Hasegawa, Planet, Classic Airframes, or Tamiya). I just think the modifications, whilst excellent, are closer to Code 3'ing a 1/8 scale car than actually modifying a kit via adding resin or white metal detail parts that actually replace other parts.
"And let's remember than the Diamond Cars version (also 1/8 scale) is much more expensive (and in the pictures the interior, for instance, looks nowhere near as detailed)."
Prior to this post, I had never heard of the Diamond Cars version and consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable about model cars. This should point to one of two things:
1) I should really explore other scales more or, more likely...
2) The car just wasn't marketed to the "car-centrics" (1/43 or 1/18) and almost exclusively to hardcore Bond collectors.
"It's not my scale, it's expensive, and if you wanted a real collection in this scale you'd need a palace to be able to have enough room to display it."
And then you say this regarding 1/8 scale. The last point is certainly a valid reason as to why most people do not collect 1/8, but what about the others in direct relation to this partwork? Let's break 'em down. You say it's not your scale. Okay, that's fine. But how many people do you think that will deter? "1/8? That's not my scale. I'll go with Danbury Mint." I can easily see that happening, for better or for worse. And yes, it is expensive...far moreso than the Danbury Mint (or whatever) model a car-centric would likely gravitate toward. Sometimes a bit more detail really isn't worth it to an individual collector.
" By the way, there are Pocher kits in 1/8 scale available, and they fetch similar prices as this partwork - even though they come unpainted (as far as I know)."
First off, regarding price...no, they don't. Pocher costs about $300-$500 USD. I could see some ScaleAutoWorks/Pocher's customers buying this, though. Some. Problem: the reasons Pocher makes 1/8 scale in the first place are far different than Fabbri's. One of the big things you could do with Pocher (I know one guy...only one, but he did talk about them...who collected their Ferraris) was that you could always expect some modification kit to come along down the line so you could take your car apart, rebuild it, and then put it back together. That, for him, was what drew him to Pocher. Just to double check on the veracity of his claims, I went to Pocher's website. They currently stock TWENTY-ONE upgrade kits (which they call "transkits"). The other big thing was that you had a super-limited production run. You can't do and will not have, respectively, either one of those with the DB5.
"I am actually glad that the car is not in the 1/18 scale. A number of manufacturers already make 007 Astons in 1/18, so why another one?"
Easy...so as to attract the car-centrics, get more profit, make shipping the model easier, and be able to proclaim yourself king of the hill in terms of detail in 1/18 scale.
"But if only few people subscribe, then in a few years this will be a true rarity"
Rarity, however, does not qual appreciation. I could give you dozens of examples of this, even with well-crafted models. Look at Verem's later stuff to see what I mean regarding such depreciation. When you seek to "create" a collectible, odds are you're not going to succeed. Are there exceptions? Of course. Look at some of the smarter companies where they knew demand would greatly outstrip supply and then totally ceased production and, in one case, actually destroyed the moulds (Ebbro does this with certain models, though I can't recall which ones, other than I'm fairly certain they were/are race cars...I should note that Minichamps does not do this). But I don't see the DB5 going that way.
Comments
Can't you find this on the inside of the front cover of an earlier issue?
The telephone number is 0871 277 0192
"Well I've got the first 11 issues of the DB5 collection and so far I am more satisfied that I have been with JBCC - at least you know when it will end!"
The model looked brilliant on the TV ad - just wondering (without delving into another forum) whether it's actually as good as it looked?
Which it won't get. Not because I don't want it to, but let's be realistic. As has been pointed out, most collectors are resigned to the fact that there will be 110 issues (not counting the replacement Anglia). Are there diehards that want more than 120 issues? Yes. Is there any way in heck we'd get figures with the models if we continued using Ixo? No. And switching back to U.H. would have everyone complaining about the models themselves. There's also Norev, but Fabbri cut ties with them a WHILE ago. I think the collection is just dragging out, it's not really Bond-themed anymore (although, thankfully, the Ixo models are turning out really nicely), and no company in its right mind listens to cyber-petitions because "stuffing" them is so easily done (not meant as an insult, but I am pointing to a well-documented fact...if wanted an actual petition that truly had force, you'd have to collect real signatures...and good luck with that!).
I actually gave a lot of thought to this post, but in the end, I just want the collection to end. I have other things to spend my money on, cars from earlier in the collection to get, duplicates to Code 3...unless the model is truly fantastic (and no, I would not consider a *tenth* Ixo UAZ-469B [since I already have a fleet of 'em] or an *eighth* Ixo Lada Niva [I have a fleet of those, too] to be "fantastic," since you could just buy one of the existing ones and Code 3 it REALLY easily to begin with), I don't even think a gift would be worth it, since I doubt Ixo is capable of doing one in the first place and U.H.'s relations with Fabbri appear to be horrible (and I'd say that they'd be even less capable, as we watched their model quality start spiralling downward).
"On this forum there have been a number of great suggestions."
There have been, but the trouble is, look at how obscure most are. The most well-known vehicle that has been suggested is the 1961 Chevrolet 30-Series "One-Tonner" flower truck from FRWL. Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in "Bondian" colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection.
That'll be that then the voice has spoken. The world's shortest campaign.....I'll get my coat
LOL! - Don't give up all hope, I dare say Fabbri are well aware of the variety of opinions on this forum and are taking note. No doubt they're probably weighing up whether it's worth their while producing any more 'extras' or not and will act accordingly. They've surprised ALL of us in the past and may do so yet again. Personally, I'm guessing it's a case of 'it ain't over until the fat lady sings'!!
But if you think about it...and that's why I said I'd thought quite carefully before making the post that was quoted...this is a double-edged sword. Yes, there are people who want the collection to continue, but many of these same people are ALSO subscribed to Fabbri's DB5 partwork. At this point, I can't imagine Fabbri turning a significant profit off the JBCC and then, you also have to consider that it's not just Fabbri. Fabbri has to find an ACCEPTABLE modelmaker to replace Ixo, who, as I now believe, made their models and pulled out at 109 in order to better fill orders for other partworks. And besides, Ixo wasn;t giving us figures or interesting dioramas. Then there's Universal Hobbies. Even if Fabbri can overcome the burnt bridges, UH's past several models have ranged from so-so to downright awful (with the notable exception of the superb Rolls-Royce Phantom III Sedanca de Ville). Why should we expect a quality improvement? And Fabbri basically told Norev to take a hike at the beginning of the series. The negotiations with another company to make acceptable quality models AND figures AND dioramas is not going to be easy. In fact, last time I checked, La Route Bleue's dioramas were actually made by a different firm than their cars! At the very least, it would take a long time to renegotiate those deals.
There is ONE way I could see Fabbri re-starting the JBCC. However, it is the ONLY way I could see them doing it: have an extension for when Bond 23 comes out. The DB5 partwork must also be finished and there could not be any other Bond-related partwork going on simultaneously. The series would mainly focus on Bond 23 cars, but also could be made to include some of the bigger things that were missed, such as the FRWL '61 Chevy 30-Series "One-Tonner", GF Mercedes-Benz 220S, TLD Wales & Edwards Rangemaster Milk Float, GE UAZ-469B, GE VAZ-2106 Russian Militisa Car, LTK Lincoln Mk. VII LSC, etc. That is the ONLY way I can see them doing any kind of extension.
I also can't see them doing it with figures due to the "No Daniel Craig" rule imposed on Fabbri, which will probably make a lot of people complain. Fabbri also sees us saying what awful dioramas we're getting and criticizing the company for lack of figures. They see many of us complaining, yet they're not doing anything about it. To a certain degree, although yes, they have to approve the models, I don't think they can control that either. It's just not Ixo's thing/they're not interested in doing anything but model cars (and they are succeeding quite well at that, I will give them that) and UH's designs have literally become lazy. I wonder if the lack of figures/poor dioramas (you might as well just buy the model on a plinth, to be honest, and save money) any kind of factor that might discourage them from producing any further models. They could solve this by saying "okay, we're done with the dioramas and figures and we're only doing vehicles," thus lowering the expectation on that part, and i guess I could see them doing that if they really wanted to make a Bond 23 update, but otherwise, well...I just don't think it's at all realistic to expect any more than the 110 models we're getting.
As for the GF Mercedes-Benz 220S, I wouldn't bet on it. However, as I said previously...
"Aside from that, you might as well market the cars in 'Bondian' colors, but just save money and sell them in your regular series: Ixo Classic, Ixo Museum, or Ixo's modern car collection."
And Ixo does have the moulds, incidentally.
I would agree the collection as it is currently marketed, primarily in Britain, does appear to be coming to a definite end. And Fabbri may have injured, if not killed, the golden goose by starting the partwork DB5 too early.
The question is whether Fabbri have enough stocks left to re-launch the JBC collection elsewhere in the world, or enough stocks to sell to another company to re-launch. If that's the case, there would be another 2-3 year period of 're-issues' somewhere, which is more than enough time to commission and add any missing vehicles.
Us Brits though, would probably be left in the same position as others world-wide are at the moment, in having to look to eBay for any 'extras' that might crop up in the future.
The question is whether Fabbri have enough stocks left to re-launch the JBC collection elsewhere in the world, or enough stocks to sell to another company to re-launch. If that's the case, there would be another 2-3 year period of 're-issues' somewhere, which is more than enough time to commission and add any missing vehicles.
Us Brits though, would probably be left in the same position as others world-wide are at the moment, in having to look to eBay for any 'extras' that might crop up in the future."
I agree with all but one thing: that Fabbri would get the license to do it. To me, you get a company like Altaya or Atlas/DeAgostini that has a TON of experience marketing model cars that could better cater to the needs of the model car collector Fabbri. If Fabbri was smart, they would just sell the rights to DeAgostini or Altaya for a load of money, and then have the guys who concenetrate on marketing cars do just that.
I think that a part work of IXO standard US vehicles would sell like crazy here and would generate secondary purchases on a huge scale. This board is perhaps not the place for this discussion..
Completely agree. Incidentally, you still have tons and tons of subscribers for USSR AvtoLegende, Kultowe Auta PRL-u, Kultovni Auta CSSR, and Retroautok a Keleti Blokkbol, although the reason I think those partworks (or, at the very least, USSR AvtoLegende) do not have declining subscriptions is simply because Russia, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and Hungary haven't really had affordable model cars that were common on the streets when a majority of the subscribers were growing up before now. That's why I think DeAgostini and Ixo are sinking so many model designs and so much money into that market. Although I do think subscribers will get a free gift of sorts: the corrected Ford Anglia.
Depends on the type of cars. Muscle cars and to a lesser extent pony cars have been done to death (well, not all of them, but a great number of them...I'd like to see an AMC AMX, a Yenko Chevelle, a Dodge Charger Daytona, an AMC Rebel Machine, and a 1968 or 1969 Ford Torino...the El Camino SS's have also been truly neglected), but if you mean 1960's sedans, wagons, vans, pickups...THAT would sell.
I concur with this all the way. the model should be about two feet in length when finished. the parts order is a ballache, meaning you have to carefully store any bits you have built for long periods of time, but so far I have had no qualms about the collection, quality or dispatch. Fortunately i'm in a position where i can afford to pay for both this car collection and the db5 (which being a 22 year old uni graduate is quite an achievement). the magazine print quality on the db5 is more professional than the jbcc but the content is defo a read once only and the file it away type of affair. well, that's my opinion anyway. i'm not into modifying the db5 kit to make it "more realistic" even though i'm a product designer. i'm a great believer of keeping things original. however, if some nearly-complete kits come up on ebay nearer the time of completion, i may buy another and mod it (depending how well others "mods" go).......
Trust me when I say that the more you get into model car collecting, you'll find that well-done Code 3's often not only look better than the original vehicle, but have more value. Sometimes said Code 3'er can be a larger customizer (early Verem, for example, now goes for off-the-charts prices, and ICV Models in Russia goes for roughly 8 times what you'd buy the regular car for, and that's climbing) or simply a one-off modelmaker who does expert work (some of the guys that customized the early Brooklin models; you'll find their work going for FAR more than the original cars). I don't believe one can draw an analogy to Dinky or early Corgi where they were played with very heavily...today's models, if not kept screwed to a plinth, are usually at the very least part of a static display and cleaned regularly. Look at Solido, Vitesse, Eligor, Norev, and Corgi from the 1980's for examples of what I mean. You'd think most of them were made yesterday. What I'm trying to say is that Code 3'ing usually doesn't destroy value, can improve it if well-done enough, and certainly will help regarding details if you've got a correct prototype to begin with. As a Bond example, I would recommend painting in the clear-plastic panels that make up the C-pillar on the Ford Fairlane 500 Skyliner Hardtop Convertible with silver, oil-based paint. The car will look much more realistic and a bit nicer. Also, the "removing the headlights and painting the backs silver" bit is a great way for realism. You could even use gold paint provided the lights are small enough to give the illusion of having the headlights turned on (I would recommend trying this with the YOLT '66 Toyopet Crown RS41, with the base label reading "Toyota Crown"). Detailing the hubcaps is another great way to go; I'd recommend this with the GAZ-31029 Volga from GE and MP Lafer Roadster from MR to give the model much less "toy-like" wheels. Also, if you know what you're doing and have accurate interior photos, you could always paint the interiors of the UH models!
Who said it should be free? Not me ? I think it should be sold to those who want it with priority given to subscribers. If GEF market correctly, get the price right and the model or models right. This could be a winner. I certainly would be happy to pay more than £7.99 . I pay upwards of £12.99 for corgi vanguards as they are released so more for this concept would be acceptable to me.
The part work has undermined the collection. Anybody subscribing to the part work must have more money than sense. These type of subscriptions have been highlighted by newspaper consumer campaigns and even on BBC watchdog. I don't doubt the quality but it will be only as good as the builder.
I think GEF were anticipating like us all a Bond 23 to be included in the collection. As that movie is yet to be confirmed time has moved on and we are approaching the 110. There is enough models to continue the collection well into 2012 encompassing the likely bond 23 announcement.
I have siad before the collection has come to a timely end but i still feel strongly GEF have not honoured the free gifts and specials as outlined at the start hence may campaign for 111.
I agree with your sentiments on the GF DB5 partwork, Diecast007 - construction partworks are definitely not for me either. I don't think that partwork is going to be nearly as popular as the JBCC.
Just an update on the DAF Econoline (now sold) and LTK RR models on eBay being offered in original packing - the seller subsequently updated his descriptions to say that the magazines were NOT part of the auctions, which changes things a bit. He also removed the issue numbers that were also part of the original descriptions.
EDIT:
I was glad to see the issue that was skipped in SA, the TSWLM Ford Taunus, available as this week's issue when I popped into the newsgent earlier. I was worried that the wait for it might be longer, owing to the apparent low stocks.
In the flesh it appears to be a fair little model of the Taunus/Cortina Mk.4, although the interior is very basic. From a model collector's perspective it is not as good as the Corgi Vanguards model of the British version which was released in Feb of this year, but that model does cost twice as much.
"I agree with your sentiments on the GF DB5 partwork, Diecast007 - construction partworks are definitely not for me either. I don't think that partwork is going to be nearly as popular as the JBCC."
I agree with both of FACT's statements here. 110 is a pretty good run for a non-East Bloc partwork and frankly, I can only think of one that's lasted longer (not counting the confirmed-to-be-more-than-125 Kultowe Auta PRL-u...and it may very well surpass USSR AvtoLegende, which I think will stop around 80-85, though its "sister series", Avtomobili na Sluzhba, will run at least 25 issues and possibly up to 50): La Route Bleue. If the JBCC had been marketed like La Route Bleue had been, with Altaya in control and basically picking and choosing model car manufacturers at will (we've seen Ixo, U.H., Norev, Eligor, and even Brumm in that series), whilst having a seperate manufacturer do the (very creative and NEVER dull) dioramas and figures...I wonder how the JBCC would have turned out. If we had to do it all over again, I mean. More cars? Doubtful. But better-quality cars and dioramas? I would think so. And if there is any chance of reviving a JBCC style partwork in 1/43, I think it would lie with a company like Altaya or, alternately, Atlas/DeAgostini.
I also agree with the statements regarding the DB5 partwork. Simply put, not many model car collectors go for a 1/8 scale car unless they absolutely love the thing. They can try it once, but I don't think it will go over well a second time. The lukewarm reception given to the GAZ-M20 Pobeda sedan that was basically DeAgostini's answer to the DB5 to be tested in Russia was VERY telling when looked at from a pure model car collector's point of view. As a friend told me, "if I want a big car, I'll buy Ist or Nash Avtoprom 1/18 scale. I can wait for the [GAZ-21] Volga and [GAZ-13] Chayka to come out. And I heard they'll be making a Pobeda. [1/18 scale]'s detailed enough for me."
As I said, I find it very telling and don't think they can get away with it twice.
FACT, a little back you said that you didn't buy the Little Nellie because she is not 1/43. I can assure you that she is. Main rotor diameter is 6.20 m and length is 3.38 m on the real thing which makes 144.2 mm and 78.6 mm in 1/43. And the model checks out exactly (if you don't include the tube on the nose which I think was added for the film).
My next delivery will include the Ford Anglia ... soon we will see if the text has been changed.
It is true that the DB5 partwork has undermined the collection. But I disagree that you have to have more money than sense to subscribe to it. In fact, I think that the DB5 model is much more likely to appreciate in value than the JBCC - in part at least precisely because it has a much more limited appeal and fewer subscribers. In addition, you know at the very beginning how much issues there is going to be - there is no way the publisher can extend it a few times at will, so it allows you to budget straight away. And the quality of the parts is infinitely better than the UH models, and even IXO. Finally, unlike most build partworks, you do not need any paint or even glue to build the DB5 - just a screwdriver, so it is really easy even you you have never before built a kit model. It is much better than the 1/24 scale Danbury Mint DB5, and in 1/18 scale none of the 007 DB5's comes even close to the Danbury Mint one. So there is no point blaming the new collection - The JBCC has simply run its course. I agree that Fabbri should have offered more free gifts, but in the end it is all about profit, so am not surprised they decided not to, having secured so many captive customers who subscribed nevertheless.
I dont think a completed part work will be worth anywhere near what it cost to build. Part works are pure profiteering as you have to continue to complete the model. At least JBCC and others you stop whenever and still have something to show for it. This collection has been undermined one should have stopped before the other started . I for one would have considered the part work on completion of the JBCC even when I think generally they are over priced kits.
Again I will state I am not looking for freebies , I am looking for GEF to honour the specials that we agreed to when signing up to the subscription. I ahve collected other diecast collections and every so often an extra special would arrive at a cost over and above the regular issues. It added an extra dimension to the collection and surprise value. There were some real gems that were fantastic. GEF have a missed a real opportunity for more profit with captive customers who are keen for more . ??
Thanks Rainier, and no worries, I can understand how much time must go into uploading photos, etc.
Hmmm, looks like I'll have to take a look at Little Nellie again. If I decide to add it I know there are some diorama backgrounds available many pages back in this thread, but if I remember correctly those were for the standard-sized box, but I'm thinking that the long Ixo boxes are probably going to be more suitable than those ones. It should be easy enough to get a Little Nellie as there are still plenty of them on eBay.
That issue, #107, is due in the shops on Weds 15 June, according to Fabbri's schedule of earlier this year.
OK, fair enough, it is probably a good model for what you get and it does indeed have the advantages you list, except that I'm not convinced that it is going to appreciate in value ... more than the JBCC maybe, but surely not compared to its own cost. In the UK the all-up cost prior to assembly is just under £600 - I think collectors will be lucky just to get their money back.
I think a fair comparison is one of Minigeff's 1/18 "Limited Edition 1 of 3" QoS DBS models, which reached £270 on auction two years ago:
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/topic/32852/for-sale-118-aston-martin-dbs-quantum-of-solace-with-damage/
But I reckon JBCC collectors are in the same boat - some models are in demand and can fetch high prices, but others are dogs that will have to be offloaded for pennies.
"But I reckon JBCC collectors are in the same boat - some models are in demand and can fetch high prices, but others are dogs that will have to be offloaded for pennies."
Once again, I'm going to have to agree with most of what FACT has to say. Partwork kits do NOT tend to appreciate in value the way a lot of people expect them to. Look at all of the model airplane partworks people are trying to sell on eBay for even less than one would expect a really good, unbuilt Tamiya or Hasegawa model airplane to go for (or Planet Models, if you're into "Luftwaffe 1946" type stuff). And yes, that includes the really-nicely-made ones. Car kit partworks may be new to the market, but airplane kit partworks aren't.
Another thing you have to deal with is actually packing up and shipping the thing if you want to sell it via the internet (i.e. where you can make the most money, since you're going to have to knock down the price at hobby show). Even if you're selling in-country, you're going to have to charge a load of money for shipping; something the buyer might balk at. The model, as stated, is about two feet long!
Then there's the cost of the model to YOU, as FACT mentions: about 600 GBP. I can't speak for the future, because Ixo may very well decide to mass produce it, but why, pray tell, are the La Salle/Miller Hearses going for on average of 30 GBP? If you happen to have twenty of them laying around (and some dealers do!), you could potentially turn around just 20 models for the full cost of the DB5 partwork. As FACT essentially states, this collection has its share of turkeys and its share of gems. Sure, you're not going to make much with Rolls-Royce Silver Shadow II's, but imagine selling via eBay ten Ford Country Squires, ten ZIL-117's, and ten La Salle/Miller Hearses outside of the UK (think of the US and the former East Bloc). Somehow, I see that as being pretty successful; more successful than selling one DB5 partwork kit. Will the DB5 appreciate more than the JBCC down the line? To be honest...it depends on the market. Who are you selling to, car-centrics like me or Bond-centrics? If the latter, yes, the DB5 is going to appreciate more, but how about the former? I really doubt it. And either way...in which country are they located? If the US, I'll bet the shipping costs will deter a LOT of buyers thinking of buying the finished product.
Also, here's another factor that I think has been overlooked and that alienates the car-centrics (and I'll get to why I think car-centrics are a big deal in a moment): the scale of the DB5 (1/8) is not widely collected AT ALL. For anyone who thinks that doesn't matter, look at China's attempts to market a fully-built GAZ-12 ZIM Limousine in 1/12 scale in Russia. A BEAUTIFUL model that I had the good fortune to examine in person...but you know what? Not too many people bought it (and I was one of those people that put it back onto the shelf) because it was not in any kind of regular scale. A 1/18 collector has enough trouble accepting 1/24 models...what makes you think he'll spring for 1/12 or 1/8? And that's saying nothing of the 1/43 collectors that started following the JBCC simply because it was in 1/43. To be honest, if they had made this in 1/18 scale, I actually think they would have gotten a far bigger market, since 1/18 scale collectors, in my experience, tend to be the most hardcore car-centrics (closely followed by us 1/43 guys, of course...). But I think this car's scale will hurt it in the long run, not help it, at least when trying to make a pitch to the car-centrics. But why do car-centrics matter so much, you ask? Because I would estimate that they currently form about half of the JBCC's sales. Granted, this is all guesswork on all of our parts regarding appreciation, but I'll ask you this: what accessories, dioramas, and various and sundry other "scenes" can you add the DB5 kit to? Yes, I know it's meant to be displayed on its own. So were the first 1/18 scale cars...and as any 1/18 scale collector knows, that didn't exactly work out as planned. But the figure-makers responded and there are TONS of 1/18 scale accessories that ultimately boosted the scale's sales. But the difference is this: there were a whole bunch of 1/18 scale cars planned all at once for release. There's ONE 1/8 scale car planned.
My sentiments exactly, It's the wrong scale and too expensive. There was a part collection to build a radio controlled Subaru impreza it worked out on completion three times as much as top of the range Tamiya or Kyosho equivalent. The completed model was no better than than a top end toy as opposed to the serious models made by Tamiya and Kyosho. Many people did not complete the car . This car certainly has appeal but only to the builder . It will not appreciate in value i guarantee it will be worthless on completion yet some of the JBCC collection will continue to appreciate and it wont be the obvious ones
Of course there haven't been any sales of complete collections as yet as there are still four models to go, so the going price for a complete collection remains to be seen - it would have cost about £875 (109 x £7.99 + the initial issue).
There have been many sales of partial collections on eBay so far - there's one on right now for issues 1 - 65 which would have cost in the region of £520 but is listed with an opening price of £275 (or £4.23 an issue). That seller isn't even trying to get back his money, he's just trying to get back something
But the biggest problem with a complete collection sale is going to be the postage - Dalko also mentions postage issues in his post earlier.
As with many 1:1 cars, this collection may be worth more in parts than as a complete thing.
I completely agree with this. My interest too isn't purely academic, but it's also not from a seller's standpoint; it's from the standpoint of a US buyer.
"As with many 1:1 cars, this collection may be worth more in parts than as a complete thing."
I also completely agree with this. I think I misinterpreted what you were saying in your first post; my point was that INDIVIDUAL models of the JBCC (especially things like the La Salle/Miller Hearse, Cadillac Hearse, Ford Country Squire, and ZIL-117) could appreciate in value far more compared to their purchase prices than could the DB5 partwork. Your point, which I agree with, is that the ENTIRE COLLECTION is not going to appreciate very well due to the presence of a number of turkeys early on as well as the horrendous shipping costs. So we're in agreement. Also, as you say, it's likely worth more in parts than as a whole. You can't really get away with that with the DB5 partwork.
"It's the wrong scale and too expensive."
This I do agree with.
"There was a part collection to build a radio controlled Subaru impreza it worked out on completion three times as much as top of the range Tamiya or Kyosho equivalent. The completed model was no better than than a top end toy as opposed to the serious models made by Tamiya and Kyosho. Many people did not complete the car ."
This analogy; I don't really agree with. I'm not familiar with this car. Did it use screws or was it a glue-together? Still, just because this unrelated car was lousy doesn't mean the DB5 will automatically be lousy. Typically, the highest-quality partwork kits have been airplanes, and they were truly very nicely done. My point was that simply put, they were depreciating despite all the work and research put into them. They were fine models that were on the level of Tamiya and Hasegawa; just *way* overpriced. You have to look at a number of partwork kits...especially the really nice ones...to get a better picture.
"This car certainly has appeal but only to the builder."
This depends on the person. As a hardcore 1/32, 1/48, and 1/72 scale aircraft builder, I DO find well-built models to be attractive and do purchase them on occassion (of course, they've also been glued together, painted, and decaled by people who make them look like the real thing shrunk down 32, 48, or 72 times). Of course, anything by my Dad or his best friend (who truly taught me how to build airplane kits) I absolutely treasure. But a built model where I could do a better or equal job is not something that would impress me and I myself would not purchase said model. As I said, this will depend on the person.
"It will not appreciate in value[...]"
Based on my experiences, I really doubt it will.
"i guarantee it will be worthless on completion"
Don't you think that's more than a bit over the line? I mean, even factoring in massive depreciation, I can't really see it going for any less than about 200 GBP.
"yet some of the JBCC collection will continue to appreciate and it wont be the obvious ones"
This I agree with, although I will stress to avoid confusion that I'm speaking about individual cars and not the entire JBCC.
FACT - as to the appreciation in value, there are a lot of factors to consider, many of which cannot be predicted at this stage, so with any partwork it is a gamble. I do not think that the DB5 will lose value - it is so much better than smaller models, so it can be expected to be more expensive. But, like with JBCC or any partwork, if the publisher decides to re-issue it every couple of years (and possibly at lower prices), then it can seriously affect the value, and I simply hope it's not gonna happen, though I have no control over this. Please note that by just buying JBCC you do not add any value to the collection, but by putting the DB5 kit together you do - Fabbri offer to sell a completed model in the UK for more than twice the price of the parts.
Dalkowski - the DB5 is very different from other kit partworks. The aeroplanes/ships usually offered require you to cut, paint and glue the parts, so the build quality will vary greatly, depending on an individual's skills. With the DB5 there is no real reason why almost all kits should not look identical (unless you manage to use your screwdriver to scratch the paintwork, of course). Plus some experienced modellers are doing amazing things to improve their model too. And let's remember than the Diamond Cars version (also 1/8 scale) is much more expensive (and in the pictures the interior, for instance, looks nowhere near as detailed). The ZIM limo is a different story - personally, I would never, ever get any other 1/8 scale model. It's not my scale, it's expensive, and if you wanted a real collection in this scale you'd need a palace to be able to have enough room to display it. I am buying the DB5 because it is "The Most Famous Car in the World" and definitely as a one-off in this scale. By the way, there are Pocher kits in 1/8 scale available, and they fetch similar prices as this partwork - even though they come unpainted (as far as I know). I am actually glad that the car is not in the 1/18 scale. A number of manufacturers already make 007 Astons in 1/18, so why another one? From my experience models that appreciate in value the most are the ones that are somehow different from all the rest, not similar. Let's wait and see - only time will tell. If the kit is a commercial success to Fabbri, then the value is not likely to appreciate. But if only few people subscribe, then in a few years this will be a true rarity... so thank you, Diecast007 for NOT subscribing!
Having said that, I am collecting the DB5 for enjoyment value too - not planning to sell it any time soon.
And now we can go back to the main topic - 1/43 scale JBCC!!!
I know this was directed at FACT, but since I'm in full agreement with FACT's statement, I think I'll give this one a try regarding a rebuttal. How is it better than smaller models? After all, as I estimated (and I don't think you contested...correct me if I'm wrong, of course), about half of the remaining JBCC collectors are car-centrics who collect in one or possibly two scales. They collect 1/43 because it's "their" scale, not necessarily because of detail. Or 1/24. Or 1/18. Of course the bigger the car, the more the detail...but then, why do 1/43-only collectors (and indeed, the legions of 1/87-only collectors in Germany) exist in the first place if they have space for stuff like 1/24 and 1/18 scale? And where is the desire on the part of a car-centric to add a third scale, regardless of detail (and I know you answered this in your response to me, but I will get to that in a few sentences)? If you think it won't lose value just because it's more detailed, I suggest looking at such spectacular failures like Revell's line of 1/32 scale biplanes. Oh sure, they were detailed (certainly more so than any WWI or Inter-War era biplanes in 1/32 I can think of), but they failed because there was essentially no market niche and biplanes typically interest only the most advanced modelists on a large scale. I will grant you the reason for failure is not why I predict the DB5 to fall short of your expectations, but just meant to be illustrative that simply because a product has more detail, it's not guaranteed to succeed.
"The aeroplanes/ships usually offered require you to cut, paint and glue the parts, so the build quality will vary greatly, depending on an individual's skills."
Paint and glue? Yes. Cuttting required? I wouldn't say usually. Often, but not usually. And I will grant you that the finished product will vary greatly on an individual's skill. However, the question I'm asking is "why are even the best-built examples going for the same as the ones that were shoddily built?"
"With the DB5 there is no real reason why almost all kits should not look identical"
There's a bit of a double-edged sword to this. Literally all modellers I know want to put their own unique touches on their models...bullet-holes, their own special paint mixtures, modifying the tires, buying a resin cockpit and mixing and matching (because sometimes, the stock kits do actually get it right), etc. If you're someone like this, where's the appeal in the DB5 for you? Of course, the guys I associate with build almost exclusively airplanes and if they don't, then they build WWII-era military vehicles. The other bit I think is very important that deserves a mention here is that I know more than a few modellers who look upon screw builds as an insult to their ability. I'm not one of them (having completed a Moraine-Saulnier MS.406 that I plan on detailing in KG200 colors and totally re-doing the landing gear, since the fun part to me is painting and modifying all of it...plus most of the screw-togethers cost next to nothing), but they are out there and I would even say that with most of the expert level guys I've met, it's an actual majority. Their view...and indeed my view...of a screw-together that's pre-painted where you're modifying it that it's closer to Code 3'ing (which I have nothing against) than an actual kit modification. Please...don't confuse me for a hobby snob (I get enough of that for "wasting my time" building Hobbycraft, Huma, old Revell/Monogram, and Airfix models, though I do find it amusing regarding the proverbial pats on the back I get when I build Hasegawa, Planet, Classic Airframes, or Tamiya). I just think the modifications, whilst excellent, are closer to Code 3'ing a 1/8 scale car than actually modifying a kit via adding resin or white metal detail parts that actually replace other parts.
"And let's remember than the Diamond Cars version (also 1/8 scale) is much more expensive (and in the pictures the interior, for instance, looks nowhere near as detailed)."
Prior to this post, I had never heard of the Diamond Cars version and consider myself at least somewhat knowledgeable about model cars. This should point to one of two things:
1) I should really explore other scales more or, more likely...
2) The car just wasn't marketed to the "car-centrics" (1/43 or 1/18) and almost exclusively to hardcore Bond collectors.
"It's not my scale, it's expensive, and if you wanted a real collection in this scale you'd need a palace to be able to have enough room to display it."
And then you say this regarding 1/8 scale. The last point is certainly a valid reason as to why most people do not collect 1/8, but what about the others in direct relation to this partwork? Let's break 'em down. You say it's not your scale. Okay, that's fine. But how many people do you think that will deter? "1/8? That's not my scale. I'll go with Danbury Mint." I can easily see that happening, for better or for worse. And yes, it is expensive...far moreso than the Danbury Mint (or whatever) model a car-centric would likely gravitate toward. Sometimes a bit more detail really isn't worth it to an individual collector.
" By the way, there are Pocher kits in 1/8 scale available, and they fetch similar prices as this partwork - even though they come unpainted (as far as I know)."
First off, regarding price...no, they don't. Pocher costs about $300-$500 USD. I could see some ScaleAutoWorks/Pocher's customers buying this, though. Some. Problem: the reasons Pocher makes 1/8 scale in the first place are far different than Fabbri's. One of the big things you could do with Pocher (I know one guy...only one, but he did talk about them...who collected their Ferraris) was that you could always expect some modification kit to come along down the line so you could take your car apart, rebuild it, and then put it back together. That, for him, was what drew him to Pocher. Just to double check on the veracity of his claims, I went to Pocher's website. They currently stock TWENTY-ONE upgrade kits (which they call "transkits"). The other big thing was that you had a super-limited production run. You can't do and will not have, respectively, either one of those with the DB5.
"I am actually glad that the car is not in the 1/18 scale. A number of manufacturers already make 007 Astons in 1/18, so why another one?"
Easy...so as to attract the car-centrics, get more profit, make shipping the model easier, and be able to proclaim yourself king of the hill in terms of detail in 1/18 scale.
"But if only few people subscribe, then in a few years this will be a true rarity"
Rarity, however, does not qual appreciation. I could give you dozens of examples of this, even with well-crafted models. Look at Verem's later stuff to see what I mean regarding such depreciation. When you seek to "create" a collectible, odds are you're not going to succeed. Are there exceptions? Of course. Look at some of the smarter companies where they knew demand would greatly outstrip supply and then totally ceased production and, in one case, actually destroyed the moulds (Ebbro does this with certain models, though I can't recall which ones, other than I'm fairly certain they were/are race cars...I should note that Minichamps does not do this). But I don't see the DB5 going that way.