Does Villiers mean the end of Miss Moneypenny?

actonsteve

One thing struck me watching my DVD of Casiono Royale this weekend and that in this total reboot - M has a new assistant.

Tobia Matthias plays Villiers. He has quite a memorable role, alerting M to Bond, throwing up at seeing Solanges corpse, following the poisoning sequence but more importantly has he replaced Moneypenny? Have we got a sharp brained male assistant instead of the love struck secretary of Maxwell,Bliss and Bond.

To be honest, I'm quite relieved. The character of Moneypenny had been going downhill since Maxwell was retired. Bliss seemed a lovestruck sloan and Samantha Bond just seemed a repository for godawful double entendres. The character, like most things, reached its nadir in DAD with the cringy Virtual Reality scene.

So welcome on board Tobia Matthias (he was Brutus in Rome). They can do alot more with your character then they can do with Moneypenny...

Loeffelholz

It's a good question, actonsteve.

Personally, I don't think so. I think she'll be back---probably as soon as #22, but I'm basing that on nothing but my own 'gut.'

More to the point, I suspect that Villiers might mean the end of Robinson. Interestingly, Tobias Menzies' rather milquetoast approach to the role (IMO) serves as a nice counterpoint to Craig-Bond's 'man of action'...and provides a nice opportunity for Villiers' growth as a character.

BTW, I thought Menzies played Brutus superbly...

Tee Hee

Isn't it Tobias Menzies?

I disagree actonsteve. I found Villiers to be a rather boring chap. As I love the Bond/Moneypenny relationship, I would love to see her triumphant return, as well as the return of our gadget master Q.

Barbel

Tee Hee wrote:

I found Villiers to be a rather boring chap. As I love the Bond/Moneypenny relationship, I would love to see her triumphant return, as well as the return of our gadget master Q.

Cheers to that. Villiers served as nothing more than a yes man to M (no knocks to the actor, the script laid that down) with nothing memorable to him. I too look forward to the return of Q and Moneypenny- it will happen, it's just a matter of time.

highhopes

actonsteve wrote:

One thing struck me watching my DVD of Casiono Royale this weekend and that in this total reboot - M has a new assistant.

Tobia Matthias plays Villiers. He has quite a memorable role, alerting M to Bond, throwing up at seeing Solanges corpse, following the poisoning sequence but more importantly has he replaced Moneypenny? Have we got a sharp brained male assistant instead of the love struck secretary of Maxwell,Bliss and Bond.

To be honest, I'm quite relieved. The character of Moneypenny had been going downhill since Maxwell was retired. Bliss seemed a lovestruck sloan and Samantha Bond just seemed a repository for godawful double entendres. The character, like most things, reached its nadir in DAD with the cringy Virtual Reality scene.

So welcome on board Tobia Matthias (he was Brutus in Rome). They can do alot more with your character then they can do with Moneypenny...

I'm with you Actonsteve. If Bernard Lee could have a good looking female assistant, why can't Judi Dench have a young, handsome guy? I thought it was refreshing. And I think they could expand his role.

Nightshooter

I think there is room for the both of them.

i expect u2 die

Even if Villiers is a dull role, I can't dispute Tobias Menzies's acting ability.

I've just got back from a performance of Anton Chekhov's "The Cherry Orchard" (also starring Joanna Lumley, who appeared in OHMSS) and he was excellent as the moody, frustrated 'student', and showed a real contrast from Villiers. I remember thinking I couldn't imagine him playing any other role, he had that perfect 'dorky' face. I've never seen 'Rome', but he proved his diversity in the play tonight.

I do hope we see more of Villiers, as I think there's a lot of room to expand his character.

blueman

If they do bring back Moneypenny...will they show us Bond and Moneypenny first meeting? Now that would be pretty cool, IMHO.

Dan Same

I would love for both Moneypenny as well as Q to return. Personaly, I see no reason why either character couldn't have been in CR. Bond could have been given the microchip by Q, while, as blue noted, it would have been interesting to see a young Bond meet a young Moneypenny for the first time. I think that Villiers is an entirely forgettable character whom I hope will be quickly replaced by Moneypenny.

s96024

I to hope Q and M return in the next film. Villiers didn't stand out or make much of an impact on me.

ToshTogo

I want Michael Kitchen to return as Tanner, i liked his character, he was very quirky, and his humourous line delivery never seemed forced

highhopes

Dan Same wrote:

I would love for both Moneypenny as well as Q to return. Personaly, I see no reason why either character couldn't have been in CR. Bond could have been given the microchip by Q, while, as blue noted, it would have been interesting to see a young Bond meet a young Moneypenny for the first time. I think that Villiers is an entirely forgettable character whom I hope will be quickly replaced by Moneypenny.

I was going to suggest M and Villiers be having a go at each other. Would have been interesting if he was the guy next to M in the bed when the office calls about Bond in the Bahamas. So tossing Q and Moneypenney into the mix might be even more interesting )

But seriously -- Q was an entirely forgettable character in DN, too. He didn't have anything to do. Give Villiers something interesting to do and he might be a nice change. Just not the same thing over and over and over, like Q. The trouble with Q is it was always the same old schtick, movie after movie after movie. Same with Moneypenney. I don't want 20 minutes of screen time eaten up by scenarios I can recite by heart. I mean, I'm surprised the audience's lips don't move along with Desmond's while he's saying his lines, it's that cliched. Besides, then we'd have to have more gadgets to justify Q's presence and next thing you know, he'll be tossing Bond the keys to the invisible car. No thanks. Been there, done that. Purvis and Wade sound like they've put the kabosh on the old coot, anyway. More proof of their utter genius, Dan )

chillipdip1

Tobias Menzies is a brilliant actor (fantastic in HBO's Rome) and way, way too good to play tiny parts like this in Bond. It really is a waste of his considerable talent. Unless they can give him some juicier scenes I think its best he jumps ship. Let the guys have Mpenny back to oggle.

Napoleon Plural

To be honest, I didn't even realise that WAS Villiers... I take it we mean the beanpole actor towering over dwarf Dench.

What does milquetoast mean?

The character seemed a product of Blair's Britain, you can imagine him going to war over some evidence that turns out to be a student's thesis on the internet... then spinning his way out of it. Probably picked to make Craig's brutal tough guy seem more appealing in contrast...

Barbel

Napoleon Plural wrote:

What does milquetoast mean?

Weak, insipid- a yes man.

emtiem

I quite liked SIS actually being run by normal people as opposed to a cast from a sitcom for a change.
No, Villiers wasn't much of a character, but he wasn't supposed to be. And I don't particularly want him to be, either. He can be in the background, giving info to the characters that are important; that's fine for me.

I'm not too interested in Moneypenny coming back; look at the cigar scene in TWINE- it was getting really tired by then.

darenhat

GE introduced the Bond/Moneypenny as a sexual rivalry, almost adversarial, which staled quickly. Lois Maxwell's Moneypenny was much more enjoyable as the relationship was a friendly, playful one. If they were to bring that back (not with Villiers, I mean) than I wouldn't mind.

Napoleon Plural

Maybe Villiers could take a shine to Bond and flirt with him like Moneypenny did, a modern spin, like Sebastian and the Prime Minister in Little Britain...

Loeffelholz

As I said, I think Colin Salmon's job as Robinson is more jeopardized by Villiers than that of whomever is cast as Moneypenny; time, as ever, will tell.

s96024

Loeffelholz wrote:

As I said, I think Colin Salmon's job as Robinson is more jeopardized by Villiers than that of whomever is cast as Moneypenny; time, as ever, will tell.

Robinson is definitely more memorable than villiers for me. I really liked Colin Salmon in that role.

darenhat

When Daniel Craig makes his fourth Bond film, I'm sure we will be treated with an oppurtunity to see Villiers role expanded a bit. We'll get to see him play a fish-out-of-water role as he accompanies Bond 'in the field'

Gassy Man

darenhat wrote:

GE introduced the Bond/Moneypenny as a sexual rivalry, almost adversarial, which staled quickly. Lois Maxwell's Moneypenny was much more enjoyable as the relationship was a friendly, playful one. If they were to bring that back (not with Villiers, I mean) than I wouldn't mind.

Hear! Hear! Moneypenny is supposed to adore Bond in an amusingly hopeful way, not be some sort of harpie with an ax to grind (or in the case of the Dalton films, a dork).

I'd bet good money that Moneypenny will be in the next film, as will Q. It would have been silly to introduce everybody in this "reboot," and now the producers can build into the next story how Bond makes his acquaintances with those other characters. However, I sense that a scene where Bond is introduced to Moneypenny will be written but Q more likely will already be known to Bond -- it's just that we'll see them together for the "first time." It'll be one of those moments where Bond is told to draw something from Q branch, and the look on his face will tell us it isn't going to be a pleasant experience.

actonsteve

Napoleon Plural wrote:

The character seemed a product of Blair's Britain, you can imagine him going to war over some evidence that turns out to be a student's thesis on the internet... then spinning his way out of it. .

Yes, he did seem very Blairite didnt he. I can imagine him "burying" bad news on a big news day. There was somethign of the PR man about him. He'd be called a yuppy in the eighties Yes, I can see him feeding lines to Tony Blair.

That could make an interesting storyline.

And I wouldnt miss Moneypenny and Q. Q maybe would work if it wasnt John Cleese. But Samantha Bonds Moneypenny became embarassing.

Time for some new characters methinks...

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

As I said, I think Colin Salmon's job as Robinson is more jeopardized by Villiers than that of whomever is cast as Moneypenny; time, as ever, will tell.

Well, not really jeopardised; as I think that particular is over now, never to be seen again. I'd be amazed if he came back. But then I'm a bit biased because I think Salmon's an appalling actor!

Lazenby880

Fish1941 wrote:

Does Villiers mean the end of Moneypenny?

I hope so. I don't miss Moneypenny.

The same here Fish. That aspect of the films (as well as the formerly inevitable Q scenes) had become very stale and tired indeed.

jetsetwilly

I'd be shocked if Villiers turned up in the next film, even if Moneypenny didn't. I'm surprised to see him described as memorable; personally, I barely noticed him (it was only on the second viewing that I realised he wasn't the man talking Bond through his defibrilator scene). He's basically Robinson, and whatever Colin Salmon did with the role, he didn't make him into a fondly regarded, integral part of the series like Moneypenny or Q have been. Or maybe even Smithers (remember him?)

Moneypenny is an icon. It's easy to say she became stale, that her appearances became "obligatory" rather than "necessary". But couldn't that be said for (off the top of my head) casino scenes, girls in bikinis, one liners, vodka martinis (shaken not stirred), tuxedos, "My name's Bond... James Bond" - you get the picture. CR provided a spin on all these which delighted the audiences. Why shouldn't the appearance of Moneypenny do the same? The public know Moneypenny, who she is, what she does.

I always liked Moneypenny; the only time I thought she was unnecessary was the likes of MR or DAF, where she is seen out of the MI6 milieu. Bond leaves M's office, and there's a beautiful woman sat there - why not have a flirt, instead of it being boring old Villiers who he just nods to on the way past? Someone started a thread called Pointless Scenes once - yes, it could be pointless; or alternatively, it could be a momentary burst of humour and character.

Never forget that Fleming put similar scenes on the page - not just with Moneypenny, but also with Loelia Ponsonby and Mary Goodnight. He understood that it added to Bond's charm. Purvis & Wade haven't ruled Moneypenny out (unlike Q), which I think says something. Babies and bathwaters, chaps.

RogueAgent

I particularly didn't like Villiers at all. I thought he was an emasculated, "step -n- fetch". Also he came across as goofy and not in a good way.


Moneypenny will return but as Loeff earlier stated, it's just my gut feeling.

emtiem

jetsetwilly wrote:

He's basically Robinson, and whatever Colin Salmon did with the role, he didn't make him into a fondly regarded, integral part of the series like Moneypenny or Q have been. Or maybe even Smithers (remember him?)

That's Boba Fett you're talking about!

jetsetwilly wrote:

Moneypenny is an icon. It's easy to say she became stale, that her appearances became "obligatory" rather than "necessary". But couldn't that be said for (off the top of my head) casino scenes, girls in bikinis, one liners, vodka martinis (shaken not stirred), tuxedos, "My name's Bond... James Bond" - you get the picture. CR provided a spin on all these which delighted the audiences. Why shouldn't the appearance of Moneypenny do the same? The public know Moneypenny, who she is, what she does.

Yeah, I wouldn't rule it out- I certainly wouldn't be able to understand it if Loelia Ponsonby turned up from the books; might as well call her Moneypenny, because the audience would! I'm sure you could do something with her; it's just that I can't imagine what. The flirting thing is very much done, and we've had her rejecting him (on the outside, but secretly yearning inside!). What else is there in the flirty relationship apart from liking him and rejecting him? Perhaps they should meet, get it on straight away for a one-night stand and then have a nice awkward relationship afterwards! Perhaps they could try to score points off each other in a friendly, but not-quite-so-friendly manner. I suppose you can use her but you'd have to freshen up their relationship a lot.

darenhat

Moneypenny could be used in a refreshing way it the writers choose. The flirting's fun, but I don't see it unreasonable for her character to be used as a sounding board for some of Bond's more personal thoughts. In fact, a deftly written script could show Moneypenny's admiration for Bond bud and bloom as we as the audience begin to 'warm' to Bond. I'm fairly convinced that if Bond were introduced to Moneypenny in CR, she'd think he was a jerk and a cad...and you know how hard it is to overcome first impressions.

highhopes

jetsetwilly wrote:

Moneypenny is an icon. It's easy to say she became stale, that her appearances became "obligatory" rather than "necessary". But couldn't that be said for (off the top of my head) casino scenes, girls in bikinis, one liners, vodka martinis (shaken not stirred), tuxedos, "My name's Bond... James Bond" - you get the picture. CR provided a spin on all these which delighted the audiences. Why shouldn't the appearance of Moneypenny do the same? The public know Moneypenny, who she is, what she does. ...
Never forget that Fleming put similar scenes on the page - not just with Moneypenny, but also with Loelia Ponsonby and Mary Goodnight. He understood that it added to Bond's charm. Purvis & Wade haven't ruled Moneypenny out (unlike Q), which I think says something. Babies and bathwaters, chaps.

That's true about MP being an icon, and there are indeed a lot of recurring things in Bond's world. You mentioned Bond's secretary and housekeeper (M's chief of staff was Bond's best friend in the books). I guess I wouldn't mind seeing some of the other recurring characters from the novels appear for a turn periodically. They don't all have to be there for every film, though. My only problem with MP and Q is that their scenes have a tendency to steer the beginning of the film in a particular direction (usually). After the PTS, Bond goes to M's office, flirts with MP, then is briefed by M, then flirts some more before going to see Q. There might be other possibilities with other characters.

Loeffelholz

I don't mind Villiers, but then I do like the actor playing him. His screen time in CR is probably very close to that of Robinson's first film, and he fulfills the same basic purpose: trading lines with M and spouting exposition to advance the story.

I think he plays well against Bond...two very different types of MI6 employees; two very different types of men.

Villiers will probably save Bond's life at some point :v )