Capt. Mason's choice of BHP and PPK is still a viable choice today (Fleming would have loved the Det!)I'm sure Fleming,being the wordsmith that he was, loved the sound of "Walther PPK 7.65mm".
As to the PPK/S,this model came about because the PPK was no longer importable into the USA due to the Gun Control ACt of 1968,basically because the butt was 1/10 of an inch too short.Walther simply put the barrel and slide of the PPK on the PP,and began importing them.
I do not any experience with the S&W PPKs,but 2 of the dealers I frequent have S&W PPKs in 9mmk/.380 on their shelves.The main physical difference is that S&W has extended the tang to reduce slide bite (my prewar PPK nicked me the other day).Both 7.65 and 9mmk are cataloged by S&W,the former I suspect for Bond fans.Of to a movie armourer it wouldn't matter as long as the
pistol functioned on set.The DR.NO PP and the withdrawn FRWL PPK in the Christies auction are both 9mmk guns.
As to the AR7, the Armalite originals had a brown
plastic stock,not wood.They were very popular in the gunstores after FRWL.Henry Repeating Arms makes the AR7 currently in an all black version.
Tecolote,
Thanks for the info on the ar7 I presumed it was wood and not plastic since I did not know such a weapon existed beyond FRWL until a few years ago. Many folks consider the Interarms PPKS to be made better than the Smith Version but thats there opinion and not mine.
quote: It is written You may have to kill one to warn a hundred, I may have to kill one hundred to warn one 003
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I have now watched "the BG Diaries", and: Camilles gun has a recoil spring guide rod that shows at the business end of the gun. And (this could go to the bad quality of the u-toob video) I think I see external extractor, but this I am not quite sure about. It also looks like a doublestack on one fight scene, but this could be a "pick-up".
But for some reason I'm starting to think about Beretta 9000S type D.
After repeated viewings, I'm leaning towards this Rohrbaugh ...
As i like James Bond novels and guns in general, i wanted to mention something i read in a gun mag some years before.
Leroy Thompson (a well known US-gunwriter) stated that Ian Fleming met Peter Mason (that-time-still-spy-for-the-UK) and his wife.
He was shown a compact Fairbairn Sykes sleeve dagger (they do exist!) and Mr. Masons backup gun, a Walther PPK.
Fleming had already been informed at that time that the Beretta .25 was a girlish gun (by readers or Boothroyd or both), but he still wanted an automatic pistol, seemingly by all means.
Mason showed him his PPK backup (!) pistol that he carried at that time.
However, Mason carried a Browning High Power 9mm as his main pistol, which Fleming did not realize.
Therefore, he is supposed to have chosen the Walther for Bond in Dr. No as 007s main gun.
A .32 acp, which is nowaday not considered a manstopper by any means, not even with a decent hollow point. Back then, maybe even with FMJ ammo, it was a serious contender.
Thompson has quoted this incident in a magazine and seems in fact to own the dagger out of Mason´ s heritage.
Thompson is a well-informed and competent gunwriter. But I would not consider him the "last word" on Fleming and the PPK.
To my knowledge, and considerable research, Fleming personally picked the PPK for Bond - it was not suggested for oo7 by Boothroyd. I have read many accounts over the years that proport to explain the reason behind Fleming's choice. All of them amount to "hearsay", what makes matters worse for us today is that the events took place over fifty years ago and the only person really in the know is dead (Fleming).
I believe the truth behind Fleming's decision to arm Bond with the Walther PPK is 1) He saw one in person and liked it. 2) He loved the name - it has the requsite Fleming "ring".
I feel compelled to point out that LeRoy Thompson did write a "puff" piece on the guns of of "The Avenger's", Emma Peel that was error riddled. I chalk that up to his credit - since he makes his living in the real world and probably - unlike many of us, does not spend an inordinate amount of his time watching and re-watching old TV shows and films!
7289:
I agree "Walther PPK 7.65mm" has the Fleming ring.He does mention a "light trigger pull" in DR NO, but I don't think he ever refered to the PPK's double action capability in DR No or any of the subsequent novels. Interestly,in QOS, Craig pretty much always has his PPK hammer back
for that light trigger pull...
In terms of stopping power and looks, the P99 - you could also include the SIG P226 - is a perfect gun for Bond; however I'd like to see you try and conceal it beneath a tailored tuxedo! [/quote]
I am not saying that it's easy but I have two tailored suits and I carry a P-99 in .40 and they conceal it just fine. The tailor does do tailoring for cops but stil it can be done. I wore one to an awards party and no one could tell I was wearing my Walther.
Bond: You don't think I enjoyed what we did this evening, do you? What I did tonight was for King and country! You don't think it gave me any pleasure, do you?
Fiona: But of course, I forgot your ego, Mr. Bond. James Bond, who only has to make love to a woman and she starts to hear heavenly choirs singing.
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
Remember Boothroyd did lend Fleming a .22 PPK along with his cut down S&W.
I am not saying that it's easy but I have two tailored suits and I carry a P-99 in .40 and they conceal it just fine. The tailor does do tailoring for cops but stil it can be done. I wore one to an awards party and no one could tell I was wearing my Walther.[/quote]
I guess it depends what kind of holster you have. With a shoulder holster, a tux would hug too close under your arms and you would see the outline of a gun. However, if you used a IWB or SOB holster, you might be able to get away with a larger pistol.
I understand the Royal Protection officers use Glock 17s, and I suspect they have to tuxes every
so often;I wonder what their solution is...?
As to the Original Prop blog, note there is a Part 2 about Bond guns,by an author who ought to know something about 007. Also click on the hi-res photos of the DR NO PP and the FRWL PPK and note the caliber of each...
After repeated viewings, I'm leaning towards this Rohrbaugh ...
Yeah! That looks right! Also is the QOS scene where she disassembles the gun the dual recoilspring/guiderod assembly is clearly visible.
But now we have a new problem: She fieldstripped it without tools in the QOS, which can't be done... You'll need a punch to remove the main pin, then putting it back together, you'll need channel lock pliers (or helluva strong fingers) to replace the recoil spring guide, and then you'll need a punch to put that main pin back again.
But then again it's a movie, right! right??
"I mean, she almost kills bond...with her ass."
-Mr Arlington Beech
I understand the Royal Protection officers use Glock 17s, and I suspect they have to tuxes every
so often;I wonder what their solution is...?
I actually know the answer to that, it is called a Glock 26 or 19
...and the FRWL PPK was indeed .380 as was a few used by Moore in his films. The original FRWL PPK was actually deactivated many years ago and used in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
?:)?:)?:)
I actually know the answer to that, it is called a Glock 26 or 19
Ah, the G26 and G19, my preferred "Dynamic Duo"...why didn't I think of that? ?:)
...and the FRWL PPK was indeed .380 as was a few used by Moore in his films. The original FRWL PPK was actually deactivated many years ago and used in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.[/quote]
Is that why it was withdrawn from the Christie's
auction?
Regards,
Tecolote
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
It was withdrawn because Eon claimed that they bought these guns and not just loaned them (which some they did, some they didn't and some they comissioned as one offs - the tankbuster), it's a long story, and quite boring too.
If this has already been mentioned so I hope I am not flogging a dead horse here, I discovered that Walther via Smith and Wesson has newly? made a Traditional PPK not a PPK/S it is chambered for 9mm kurtz cartridge and carry's 6 plus 1 I got this info from the on line gun company I am purchasing my P5 from so possibly Bond was carrying the new PPK for QoS So I hope this helps.
Quote: It is written You may have to kill one to warn one hundred I may have to kill a hundred to warn one/ 003
If this has already been mentioned so I hope I am not flogging a dead horse here, I discovered that Walther via Smith and Wesson has newly? made a Traditional PPK not a PPK/S it is chambered for 9mm kurtz cartridge and carry's 6 plus 1 I got this info from the on line gun company I am purchasing my P5 from so possibly Bond was carrying the new PPK for QoS So I hope this helps.
Quote: It is written You may have to kill one to warn one hundred I may have to kill a hundred to warn one/ 003
The S&W PPK (they also do a PPK/S) is not worthy of the Walther name. It has been haunted by very poor quality control.
The QOS PPK is an "out of print" Walther. Many were made so they are still quite common. Those of us in the USA have been banned from PPK pistols made after 1968 because of restrictive import regulations adopted that year which effectively banned the PPK from our shores.
The PPK was also made under Walther license by Interarms. This was a very well handgun - a near perfect rendition of the original. Interarms went out of business about 15 years ago, so that version is also "out of print".
Bond's Walther is supposed to be a .32 - but because the differences between the .32 and the .380 are very minor - on screen used pistols it's possible to get away with a switch!
Thank you 7289 for the information concerning the P PK. As I side note I reside in Lakeland Florida and have located a Army Navy store that has a P1 imported by Inter arms for sale and a Walther PP both are consignment Guns. I found another place in the same city in which I discovered a authentic P38 Walther note imported by Inter arms and a Walther PP with non standard grips Since the previously two mentioned at the Army Navy store in Lakeland are consignment I think the prices are firm Also on the wall in the store there is the civilian model of the carbine Bond used in Casino Royale it is a H&k the owner wants 1500 for it and I believe the P1 and PP are going between 5 and 6 hundred respectfully so anybody on the AJB list near Lakeland check it out I would say these are Collector goods for all Bond fans
Quote: Queen and Country Safe and sound,put the villains six feet underground /003
Bond's Walther is supposed to be a .32 - but because the differences between the .32 and the .380 are very minor - on screen used pistols it's possible to get away with a switch!
Without showing a close up of the engraving on the slide, or watching Bond load it with .380s, then there's no way of telling. Although, you could count the amount of shots he fires. But movies often lose track of how many rounds a character has fired.
Has anybody seen Vantage Point? The guy at the end can somehow load about twenty five rounds into his SIG P228.
So are you guys thinking that Bond will return with the PPK?
Definately not..... weeell there is a slight chance.... well actually a slim chance..... well pobably a more than slight chance. Depends on director, so maybe, well more than maybe, well actually it's more than probable, so I'd say YES.
.................................
Asp9mmOver the Hills and Far Away.Posts: 7,535MI6 Agent
I have owned a number of US PPK's, stay away from Interarms or older S & W's. I have a 6 month old PPK from S & W and it is a great gun. Look for the longer extended beaver tail, that is a newer model.
ive been enjoying reading your guys conversations....but i feel i need to say something :007) ive always loved the ppk but ive always wondered about people who question its stopping power......now i agree the .380 is crap..my department recently prohibited use of them as a backup firearm. after several incident's of non penetration
But about the 7.65 or the .32acp.....on my job i carry a Walther ppk/s .32 with crimson trace grips as a backup...and i have unfortunately have once used it once to stop a suspect and i can tell you it a HELL of a man stopper with many reports of one stop shots. After witnessing a test it is MUCH more effective as a defensive caliber than the .380. ive read many reports of .380 testing in a slaughterhouse in which the slug didnt even penetrate bone!!!:o
now i know bond is a fictional character....but after carrying one for a year and talking to my ballistics friends...if bond wants a ppk...he should continue to use the 7.65mm{[]
as major boothroyd said.."like a brick through a plate glass window..." and after using both .380 ans .32. the .32 is definatelly the winner
I cannot comment on actual stopping power of the
7.65mm/.32ACP cartridge in it's various loadings, but I seem to recall reading that Walthers so chambered shot closer to point of aim than their 9mmK/.380 counterparts. My own PPK does so.
As to the cinematic Bond using the PPK, after watching QOS, I have to say that Daniel Craig pulls it off very convincingly,giving one the impression that Bond is not outgunned in the slightest...
Good point concerning the .32 cal DaltonFan much like a .22 Mag or LR the nasty little bugger has a neat ability to bounce around inside the target. Concerning the 9mm kurtz round for the new P P K it may depend on the cartridge you use and if you use the Mozambique technique "two in the chest and one in the head makes sure the fellow is dead" That's from the Man with the Red Tattoo I myself prefer a 9mm hollow point for my P5 goes in and does the damage and doesn't come out or so the research says.
Quote: Queen and Country safe and sound putting the villains six feet under ground
Comments
As to the PPK/S,this model came about because the PPK was no longer importable into the USA due to the Gun Control ACt of 1968,basically because the butt was 1/10 of an inch too short.Walther simply put the barrel and slide of the PPK on the PP,and began importing them.
I do not any experience with the S&W PPKs,but 2 of the dealers I frequent have S&W PPKs in 9mmk/.380 on their shelves.The main physical difference is that S&W has extended the tang to reduce slide bite (my prewar PPK nicked me the other day).Both 7.65 and 9mmk are cataloged by S&W,the former I suspect for Bond fans.Of to a movie armourer it wouldn't matter as long as the
pistol functioned on set.The DR.NO PP and the withdrawn FRWL PPK in the Christies auction are both 9mmk guns.
As to the AR7, the Armalite originals had a brown
plastic stock,not wood.They were very popular in the gunstores after FRWL.Henry Repeating Arms makes the AR7 currently in an all black version.
Has anybody ID'd Camille's gun(s)?
Tecolote
Thanks for the info on the ar7 I presumed it was wood and not plastic since I did not know such a weapon existed beyond FRWL until a few years ago. Many folks consider the Interarms PPKS to be made better than the Smith Version but thats there opinion and not mine.
quote: It is written You may have to kill one to warn a hundred, I may have to kill one hundred to warn one 003
After repeated viewings, I'm leaning towards this Rohrbaugh ...
Thompson is a well-informed and competent gunwriter. But I would not consider him the "last word" on Fleming and the PPK.
To my knowledge, and considerable research, Fleming personally picked the PPK for Bond - it was not suggested for oo7 by Boothroyd. I have read many accounts over the years that proport to explain the reason behind Fleming's choice. All of them amount to "hearsay", what makes matters worse for us today is that the events took place over fifty years ago and the only person really in the know is dead (Fleming).
I believe the truth behind Fleming's decision to arm Bond with the Walther PPK is 1) He saw one in person and liked it. 2) He loved the name - it has the requsite Fleming "ring".
I feel compelled to point out that LeRoy Thompson did write a "puff" piece on the guns of of "The Avenger's", Emma Peel that was error riddled. I chalk that up to his credit - since he makes his living in the real world and probably - unlike many of us, does not spend an inordinate amount of his time watching and re-watching old TV shows and films!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I agree "Walther PPK 7.65mm" has the Fleming ring.He does mention a "light trigger pull" in DR NO, but I don't think he ever refered to the PPK's double action capability in DR No or any of the subsequent novels. Interestly,in QOS, Craig pretty much always has his PPK hammer back
for that light trigger pull...
Regards,
Tecolote
I am not saying that it's easy but I have two tailored suits and I carry a P-99 in .40 and they conceal it just fine. The tailor does do tailoring for cops but stil it can be done. I wore one to an awards party and no one could tell I was wearing my Walther.
Fiona: But of course, I forgot your ego, Mr. Bond. James Bond, who only has to make love to a woman and she starts to hear heavenly choirs singing.
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=1296797
Regards,
Tecolote
Would sure like the see some images of these from the IWM display. It would be nice if a REAL book devoted to the exhibt was produced.
The one that was comissioned is a real disappointment!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Link:
http://www.originalprop.com/blog/?p=2135
I guess it depends what kind of holster you have. With a shoulder holster, a tux would hug too close under your arms and you would see the outline of a gun. However, if you used a IWB or SOB holster, you might be able to get away with a larger pistol.
so often;I wonder what their solution is...?
As to the Original Prop blog, note there is a Part 2 about Bond guns,by an author who ought to know something about 007. Also click on the hi-res photos of the DR NO PP and the FRWL PPK and note the caliber of each...
Regards,
Tecolote
Yeah! That looks right! Also is the QOS scene where she disassembles the gun the dual recoilspring/guiderod assembly is clearly visible.
But now we have a new problem: She fieldstripped it without tools in the QOS, which can't be done... You'll need a punch to remove the main pin, then putting it back together, you'll need channel lock pliers (or helluva strong fingers) to replace the recoil spring guide, and then you'll need a punch to put that main pin back again.
But then again it's a movie, right! right??
-Mr Arlington Beech
Regards,
Tecolote
I actually know the answer to that, it is called a Glock 26 or 19
...and the FRWL PPK was indeed .380 as was a few used by Moore in his films. The original FRWL PPK was actually deactivated many years ago and used in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.
I actually know the answer to that, it is called a Glock 26 or 19
Ah, the G26 and G19, my preferred "Dynamic Duo"...why didn't I think of that? ?:)
...and the FRWL PPK was indeed .380 as was a few used by Moore in his films. The original FRWL PPK was actually deactivated many years ago and used in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.[/quote]
Is that why it was withdrawn from the Christie's
auction?
Regards,
Tecolote
Quote: It is written You may have to kill one to warn one hundred I may have to kill a hundred to warn one/ 003
The S&W PPK (they also do a PPK/S) is not worthy of the Walther name. It has been haunted by very poor quality control.
The QOS PPK is an "out of print" Walther. Many were made so they are still quite common. Those of us in the USA have been banned from PPK pistols made after 1968 because of restrictive import regulations adopted that year which effectively banned the PPK from our shores.
The PPK was also made under Walther license by Interarms. This was a very well handgun - a near perfect rendition of the original. Interarms went out of business about 15 years ago, so that version is also "out of print".
Bond's Walther is supposed to be a .32 - but because the differences between the .32 and the .380 are very minor - on screen used pistols it's possible to get away with a switch!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Quote: Queen and Country Safe and sound,put the villains six feet underground /003
Without showing a close up of the engraving on the slide, or watching Bond load it with .380s, then there's no way of telling. Although, you could count the amount of shots he fires. But movies often lose track of how many rounds a character has fired.
Has anybody seen Vantage Point? The guy at the end can somehow load about twenty five rounds into his SIG P228.
Definately not..... weeell there is a slight chance.... well actually a slim chance..... well pobably a more than slight chance. Depends on director, so maybe, well more than maybe, well actually it's more than probable, so I'd say YES.
But about the 7.65 or the .32acp.....on my job i carry a Walther ppk/s .32 with crimson trace grips as a backup...and i have unfortunately have once used it once to stop a suspect and i can tell you it a HELL of a man stopper with many reports of one stop shots. After witnessing a test it is MUCH more effective as a defensive caliber than the .380. ive read many reports of .380 testing in a slaughterhouse in which the slug didnt even penetrate bone!!!:o
now i know bond is a fictional character....but after carrying one for a year and talking to my ballistics friends...if bond wants a ppk...he should continue to use the 7.65mm{[]
as major boothroyd said.."like a brick through a plate glass window..." and after using both .380 ans .32. the .32 is definatelly the winner
7.65mm/.32ACP cartridge in it's various loadings, but I seem to recall reading that Walthers so chambered shot closer to point of aim than their 9mmK/.380 counterparts. My own PPK does so.
As to the cinematic Bond using the PPK, after watching QOS, I have to say that Daniel Craig pulls it off very convincingly,giving one the impression that Bond is not outgunned in the slightest...
Regards,
Tecolote
Quote: Queen and Country safe and sound putting the villains six feet under ground