It was a stupid idea (and not too terribly practical on Bond's behalf) but it wasn't nearly enough to ruin the entire movie for me. I find that a lot of people dislike Octopussy entirely because of that one scene, but they often forget about the great stunts (like the train pursuit and the airplane climax) and performances (Maud Adams and Roger Moore, who comes across as very comfortable in the role).
Was it really that stupid? It's been a while since I've seen the film, but didn't Bond put on the clown suit so as to blend into the circus? If so, it strikes me that it would have been entirely logical what he did.
Nonetheless I do think it is an enormously enjoyable and extremely underrated film. In fact, I think it could have been the perfect send-off for Moore, if he hadn't returned in AVTAK.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Bella_docQuantum's next target (Canada)Posts: 51MI6 Agent
It was a stupid idea (and not too terribly practical on Bond's behalf) but it wasn't nearly enough to ruin the entire movie for me. I find that a lot of people dislike Octopussy entirely because of that one scene, but they often forget about the great stunts (like the train pursuit and the airplane climax) and performances (Maud Adams and Roger Moore, who comes across as very comfortable in the role).
Was it really that stupid? It's been a while since I've seen the film, but didn't Bond put on the clown suit so as to blend into the circus? If so, it strikes me that it would have been entirely logical what he did.
That just goes to show you that the whole circus thing was ill-conceived. Given Maud's connections it would have made more sense --and not to mention looked far better-- to smuggle the bomb at, say, a hoity-toity party to reveal some fabulous newly discovered diamond or, failing that, the old dependable stand-by of a military site. Just about any other public site would have had the same impact, but with the added bonus of not looking so silly.
(Hmm, the road not taken --one could be at this the whole day .)
Interesting that I never replied to this thread before....
I have 4 Bond films that constantly vie for my "worst ever" tag : TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, DAD
Until recently DAD was top, but having seen a few of the 007 films at the BFI I had to re-appraise my opinion. DAD has some terrible stuff in it, I hate the self reference and the slo-mo and the CGI, but I love Miranda Frost, the theme tune, the score, the title design, the scenes in the cigar factory, etc to name a few
TMWTGG has lots of issues too, but is redeemed by a few marvellous scenes (Lazar, Grisly Land, QE boat trip, to name three) and some good performances from Moore, Lee, Villiechaize and Adams.
OP is awful, inpenetrable plot, horrible performances from everyone, emphasis is on humour, misogynism is rife, stereotyping is rife, oh god the list is endless... but the PTS is great (baring the "Fill 'er up" line) and so are the first few scenes of the movie proper. Its when 007 gets to India it all goes a bit skewey.
AVTAK... well, what can I say?? A Bond film where Bond doesn't kill anyone (directly), some of the poorest action sequences in the franchise (horseracing? hardly life or death stuff, give me the centrifuge any day), stupid supporting characters, dumb plot, unbelievable villains, a wierd "evil Q" - again the list goes on. Only Patrick Macnee and Duran Duran attempt to save this one.
For me, AVTAK is the laziest Bond movie, and for that it is the lowest ranked. There is no effort here at all, everyone has a nice time, takes a pay cheque and goes home with a smile. Simply unacceptable.
Was it really that stupid? It's been a while since I've seen the film, but didn't Bond put on the clown suit so as to blend into the circus? If so, it strikes me that it would have been entirely logical what he did.
Perhaps logical to evade capture, but one friend of mine pointed out that Bond was under a time limit to stop the device from going off. Therefore, it doesn't make much sense that Bond would have time to apply clown make-up and put on a full costume during such a pressing situation.
On the other hand, I find that the scene does acheive a refreshing amount of originality and unexpectedness in a franchise that practically thrives on predictability of outcome. Therefore: worst thing to happen to Bond? Definitely not.
"The secret agent. The man who was only a silhouette..." -- Ian Fleming, Moonraker
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
The fact Bond has time to apply full clown makeup, (with the intricate time consuming tear drop), fails to negate my opinion.
Barry's stuff is beautiful, and I love it for Khan and his scowling henchman, for the hi-speed railroad and aeoroplane stunts, and for the revenge of 008.
Hugo DraxLeeds, United Kingdom.Posts: 210MI6 Agent
The fact Bond has time to apply full clown makeup, (with the intricate time consuming tear drop), fails to negate my opinion.
Barry's stuff is beautiful, and I love it for Khan and his scowling henchman, for the hi-speed railroad and aeoroplane stunts, and for the revenge of 008.
OP is one of my favourites. A common criticism is that the plot is impenetrable and convoluted. I would argue that OP has a highly relevant political storyline that could have come from the pen of Frederick Forsyth.
The musical score is great and there are some fantastic chase sequences in the film. Yes, the humour is cheesier than a brie sandwich, but that's Sir Roger all over.
The fact Bond has time to apply full clown makeup, (with the intricate time consuming tear drop), fails to negate my opinion.
Barry's stuff is beautiful, and I love it for Khan and his scowling henchman, for the hi-speed railroad and aeoroplane stunts, and for the revenge of 008.
OP is one of my favourites. A common criticism is that the plot is impenetrable and convoluted. I would argue that OP has a highly relevant political storyline that could have come from the pen of Frederick Forsyth.
The musical score is great and there are some fantastic chase sequences in the film. Yes, the humour is cheesier than a brie sandwich, but that's Sir Roger all over.
I've always enjoyed watching OP. (no jokes Sir Miles) , First in the theater then on home video.
But I never knew the plot was supposed to be hard to follow, till I bought a computer and was told this.
I was never a big fan of the Pierce Brosnan bonds. I personally felt that LTK would have been a unique exciting climax to the series and I really thought they had stretched it out as far as they possibly could. Also I didn't like Brosnan's take on Bond's character. He was so out of proportion with the gentleman agent I had grown so used to in most of the first 16 installments.
I must admit I'm starting to like TND as a stand alone film a bit because I like the late actor Vincent Schiavelli.
Controversial as this may sound, I think Moonraker is fantastic- at least on a superficial, visual level. It fulfilled the original envision that the producers had of producing an extravagant film that doesn't take itself seriously, and this is what they have acheived.
I do not think a single Bond film is without something good to say about it.
Think about all the original posters for the Bond movies when they first came out- proclaiming that each one was better than the last- and yet rank pretty low on a lot of people's lists of favourite films. Moonraker however, boasts some of the best moments in the whole series, and doesn't seem to get recognition for that- and that is a tragedy.
On the poster for Moonraker it simply reads 'Outer Space Now Belongs To 007'.
007 could go into outer space again, but I think the majority of movie-goers would be too narrow-minded enough to knock Moonraker for the space thing and the OTT humour alone that it would be unlikely for it to become reality.
AVTAK has the best Bond girl (Stacey Sutton) of the 80s in the looks department, out of an era of dreadful women's fashions. Who cares if she is stupid? If you were stuck in a burning lift shaft your vocabulary would also be reduced to 'help me, James!'.
Look at the Bond girls we have now..all utilitarian with tarnished pasts etc. Boring. I don't fork out £7 for a cinema ticket to see that.
After seeing Quantum I felt a little short changed after the whole week of media hype built up to QoS' release.
Never Say Never Again was a disaster in both the final piece and in the making of it. It couldn't possibly be good if making it had an effect on the actors and production crew as well. In book sources on Bond it says that Sean Connery and Kim Basinger saw it as a troubled production whilst making the thing. Artistically it shows on screen by including awkwardly placed characters and situations, score and a weak climax. If this rival Bond franchise, if it ever took off, had improved with a follow-up film showing greater development of character etc, well, we'll never know now.
Octopussy is miles better in terms of plot and characterisation but is let down by a flat direction. So is A View To A Kill.
Licence To Kill's Bond- not Timothy Dalton- is terrible- he goes bashful at kissing girls and yet when you put a knife or gun in his hand he just turns into this crazed, violent-hungry freakazoid. Funny I notice how a lot of Dalton's characters in his films- not just Bond- have quite violent dispositions- early example was Prince Barin in Flash Gordon- he is the only one in that film who swears and it was bad enough putting a laser gun in his hand and killing a whole load of Ming's soldiers.
Diamonds Are Forever is weak artistically by this seemingly doing away with the Blofeld of OHMSS who assisted in killing 007's wife- although I disagree with the dressing in drag criticism- this gives quite an effective edge to his character as a killer- like something out a 90s action thriller where he dresses in costume to carry out his evil deeds (i.e. Point Break).
This shows that Blofeld is a man who has done it all- like a cross between a villain out of a Tarantino film with Emperer Ming- he builds massive bases inside volcanoes bent on initiating war and destruction and brainwashes a whole load of beautiful women with a virus, but can also be a low-key criminal on the side after his giant plans go kaput as a sort of side profession.
He is a bad, bad man.
Its most interesting how at the time DAF was praised at the expense of OHMSS. Now the reverse is more true nowadays; OHMSS gets regarded as a milestone of the Bond films and DAF gets relogated to one of the lowest on the list of Bond favourites.
Conclusively, I do not think a single Bond film is without something good to say about it.
But I never knew the plot was supposed to be hard to follow, till I bought a computer and was told this.
This is an interesting point. Prior to coming onto this site, I never once thought about Sir Roger's age and appearance in OP and AVTAK. Moreover, I've watched these films with my sister and other friends, who are casual Bond fans, and they never remark on anything either. Part of me does think that Sir Roger should have stepped down after OP, but this is more to do with AVTAK being a weak film than Sir Roger's age. I think it comes down whether or not you have a fixed idea of what Bond must look like and be. Moore still comes across as being very suave and charming in the later films, even though he was getting older.
DAF is pure silliness, and I don't think it comes close to OP. But there are things I like about it even then. And again, Connery's physical appearance never crossed my mind before I came onto this site.
First off, I think all the Bond movies have something that make them worth watching, now in saying that, there are a couple that I do rate lower than my all time favourites, and for that I have to 'recommend' Diamonds are Forever and A View to a Kill. DAF starts well, but it becomes a little crass by Bond standards when it moves to Las Vegas, whilst AVTAK is really tired and lacking, no wonder it was all change by 1987.
Diamonds are Forever - Mainly due to the fact that it isn't the revenge story it should have been and Lazenby should be here, not Connery. Everything in general is just so goddam lazy here. The only redeemable feature is the song.
Live and Let Die - Same reason as above, everything here is so goddam lazy, there's isn't much of a plot, the Villains are not sinister whatsoever due to said "plot". The only redeemable feature is the song.
Licence To Kill - It seriously lacks the magic that makes the series so speical and felt like it was made-for-tv. The film overall had promise but the execution led alot to be desired.
The above three are the only ones that I outright dislike and will never watch them ever again.
Comments
Nonetheless I do think it is an enormously enjoyable and extremely underrated film. In fact, I think it could have been the perfect send-off for Moore, if he hadn't returned in AVTAK.
(Hmm, the road not taken --one could be at this the whole day
I have 4 Bond films that constantly vie for my "worst ever" tag : TMWTGG, OP, AVTAK, DAD
Until recently DAD was top, but having seen a few of the 007 films at the BFI I had to re-appraise my opinion. DAD has some terrible stuff in it, I hate the self reference and the slo-mo and the CGI, but I love Miranda Frost, the theme tune, the score, the title design, the scenes in the cigar factory, etc to name a few
TMWTGG has lots of issues too, but is redeemed by a few marvellous scenes (Lazar, Grisly Land, QE boat trip, to name three) and some good performances from Moore, Lee, Villiechaize and Adams.
OP is awful, inpenetrable plot, horrible performances from everyone, emphasis is on humour, misogynism is rife, stereotyping is rife, oh god the list is endless... but the PTS is great (baring the "Fill 'er up" line) and so are the first few scenes of the movie proper. Its when 007 gets to India it all goes a bit skewey.
AVTAK... well, what can I say?? A Bond film where Bond doesn't kill anyone (directly), some of the poorest action sequences in the franchise (horseracing? hardly life or death stuff, give me the centrifuge any day), stupid supporting characters, dumb plot, unbelievable villains, a wierd "evil Q" - again the list goes on. Only Patrick Macnee and Duran Duran attempt to save this one.
For me, AVTAK is the laziest Bond movie, and for that it is the lowest ranked. There is no effort here at all, everyone has a nice time, takes a pay cheque and goes home with a smile. Simply unacceptable.
Perhaps logical to evade capture, but one friend of mine pointed out that Bond was under a time limit to stop the device from going off. Therefore, it doesn't make much sense that Bond would have time to apply clown make-up and put on a full costume during such a pressing situation.
On the other hand, I find that the scene does acheive a refreshing amount of originality and unexpectedness in a franchise that practically thrives on predictability of outcome. Therefore: worst thing to happen to Bond? Definitely not.
1) The Spy Who Loved Me 2) On Her Majesty's Secret Service 3) GoldenEye 4) Casino Royale 5) Goldfinger
The fact Bond has time to apply full clown makeup, (with the intricate time consuming tear drop), fails to negate my opinion.
Barry's stuff is beautiful, and I love it for Khan and his scowling henchman, for the hi-speed railroad and aeoroplane stunts, and for the revenge of 008.
OP is one of my favourites. A common criticism is that the plot is impenetrable and convoluted. I would argue that OP has a highly relevant political storyline that could have come from the pen of Frederick Forsyth.
The musical score is great and there are some fantastic chase sequences in the film. Yes, the humour is cheesier than a brie sandwich, but that's Sir Roger all over.
But I never knew the plot was supposed to be hard to follow, till I bought a computer and was told this.
I must admit I'm starting to like TND as a stand alone film a bit because I like the late actor Vincent Schiavelli.
I do not think a single Bond film is without something good to say about it.
Think about all the original posters for the Bond movies when they first came out- proclaiming that each one was better than the last- and yet rank pretty low on a lot of people's lists of favourite films. Moonraker however, boasts some of the best moments in the whole series, and doesn't seem to get recognition for that- and that is a tragedy.
On the poster for Moonraker it simply reads 'Outer Space Now Belongs To 007'.
007 could go into outer space again, but I think the majority of movie-goers would be too narrow-minded enough to knock Moonraker for the space thing and the OTT humour alone that it would be unlikely for it to become reality.
AVTAK has the best Bond girl (Stacey Sutton) of the 80s in the looks department, out of an era of dreadful women's fashions. Who cares if she is stupid? If you were stuck in a burning lift shaft your vocabulary would also be reduced to 'help me, James!'.
Look at the Bond girls we have now..all utilitarian with tarnished pasts etc. Boring. I don't fork out £7 for a cinema ticket to see that.
After seeing Quantum I felt a little short changed after the whole week of media hype built up to QoS' release.
Never Say Never Again was a disaster in both the final piece and in the making of it. It couldn't possibly be good if making it had an effect on the actors and production crew as well. In book sources on Bond it says that Sean Connery and Kim Basinger saw it as a troubled production whilst making the thing. Artistically it shows on screen by including awkwardly placed characters and situations, score and a weak climax. If this rival Bond franchise, if it ever took off, had improved with a follow-up film showing greater development of character etc, well, we'll never know now.
Octopussy is miles better in terms of plot and characterisation but is let down by a flat direction. So is A View To A Kill.
Licence To Kill's Bond- not Timothy Dalton- is terrible- he goes bashful at kissing girls and yet when you put a knife or gun in his hand he just turns into this crazed, violent-hungry freakazoid. Funny I notice how a lot of Dalton's characters in his films- not just Bond- have quite violent dispositions- early example was Prince Barin in Flash Gordon- he is the only one in that film who swears and it was bad enough putting a laser gun in his hand and killing a whole load of Ming's soldiers.
Diamonds Are Forever is weak artistically by this seemingly doing away with the Blofeld of OHMSS who assisted in killing 007's wife- although I disagree with the dressing in drag criticism- this gives quite an effective edge to his character as a killer- like something out a 90s action thriller where he dresses in costume to carry out his evil deeds (i.e. Point Break).
This shows that Blofeld is a man who has done it all- like a cross between a villain out of a Tarantino film with Emperer Ming- he builds massive bases inside volcanoes bent on initiating war and destruction and brainwashes a whole load of beautiful women with a virus, but can also be a low-key criminal on the side after his giant plans go kaput as a sort of side profession.
He is a bad, bad man.
Its most interesting how at the time DAF was praised at the expense of OHMSS. Now the reverse is more true nowadays; OHMSS gets regarded as a milestone of the Bond films and DAF gets relogated to one of the lowest on the list of Bond favourites.
Conclusively, I do not think a single Bond film is without something good to say about it.
This is an interesting point. Prior to coming onto this site, I never once thought about Sir Roger's age and appearance in OP and AVTAK. Moreover, I've watched these films with my sister and other friends, who are casual Bond fans, and they never remark on anything either. Part of me does think that Sir Roger should have stepped down after OP, but this is more to do with AVTAK being a weak film than Sir Roger's age. I think it comes down whether or not you have a fixed idea of what Bond must look like and be. Moore still comes across as being very suave and charming in the later films, even though he was getting older.
DAF is pure silliness, and I don't think it comes close to OP. But there are things I like about it even then. And again, Connery's physical appearance never crossed my mind before I came onto this site.
Live and Let Die - Same reason as above, everything here is so goddam lazy, there's isn't much of a plot, the Villains are not sinister whatsoever due to said "plot". The only redeemable feature is the song.
Licence To Kill - It seriously lacks the magic that makes the series so speical and felt like it was made-for-tv. The film overall had promise but the execution led alot to be desired.
The above three are the only ones that I outright dislike and will never watch them ever again.