Gunman kills 21 at Virginia Polytechnic University

DAWUSS

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20070416/D8OHQA5O0.html

Gunman Kills 21 at Virginia Tech


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Apr 16, 12:31 PM (ET)

By SUE LINDSEY

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) - A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

On the Web site, Tech reported the shootings at opposite sides of the 2,600-acre campus at West Ambler Johnston, a co-ed residence hall that houses 895 people, and said there were "multiple victims" at Norris Hall, an engineering building.

All entrances to the campus were closed and classes canceled through Tuesday.

"There's just a lot of commotion. It's hard to tell exactly what's going on," said student Jason Anthony Smith, 19, who lives in the dorm where shooting took place.

Aimee Kanode, a freshman from Martinsville, said the shooting happened on the 4th floor of West Ambler Johnston dormitory, one floor above her room. Kanode's resident assistant knocked on her door about 8 a.m. to notify students to stay put.

"They had us under lockdown," Kanode said. "They temporarily lifted the lockdown, the gunman shot again."

"We're all locked in our dorms surfing the Internet trying to figure out what's going on," Kanode said.

Madison Van Duyne, a student who was interviewed by telephone on CNN, said, "We are all in lockdown. Most of the students are sitting on the floors away from the windows just trying to be as safe as possible."

It was second time in less than a year that the campus was closed because of a shooting.

In August 2006, the opening day of classes was canceled and the campus closed when an escaped jail inmate allegedly killed a hospital guard off campus and fled to the Tech area. A sheriff's deputy involved in the manhunt was killed on a trail just off campus.

The accused gunman, William Morva, faces capital murder charges.

s96024

22 now. What is it with these type of things in America.

Dan Same

Horrible. The world isn't such a nice place at the moment.

Tee Hee

s96024 wrote:

22 now. What is it with these type of things in America.

Good question, because we all know that shootings only take place in the U.S. 8-)

This is indeed a tragic event. It will be interesting to see if the authorities can discover the motive behind this horrible act.

Perhaps the media will finally cease its coverage of Anna Nicole and Don Imus nonsense and focus on the real issues/problems facing our world.

s96024

Yea because mass shootings in schools are so common in other countries.8-)

DAWUSS

Tee Hee wrote:

Perhaps the media will finally cease its coverage of Anna Nicole and Don Imus nonsense and focus on the real issues/problems facing our world.

Even though I don't use too much internet lingo on AJB, I will say QFE.


Though I honestly have a feeling this story'll be a major headline for only a few days before some new stunning development in the Don Imus case happens, but still...

Moore Not Less

The news gets worse, I'm afraid. Thirty one people are now reported killed plus ten injured. It appears there were two seperate shooting incidents approx two hours apart. There was one gunman and he is reported as dead.

Deadly shooting at US university

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6560685.stm

Tee Hee

s96024 wrote:

Yea because mass shootings in schools are so common in other countries.8-)

Every country has its problems s96024. However, I can't help but find it extremely ignorant of you to use a tragedy like this to take a cheap shot at the U.S. A normal person would offer their condolences, not make an outrageous judgement about American society as if we breed mass murderers. How about pointing the finger at who is really responsible: the assailant.

Have a little sympathy.

emtiem

Tee Hee wrote:

s96024 wrote:

Yea because mass shootings in schools are so common in other countries.8-)

Every country has its problems s96024. However, I can't help but find it extremely ignorant of you to use a tragedy like this to take a cheap shot at the U.S. A normal person would offer their condolences, not make an outrageous judgement about American society as if we breed mass murderers. How about pointing the finger at who is really responsible: the assailant.

Well it is the 19th such occurance in ten years: I think there's a little more going on than just one guilty person. And I don't think it's ignorant to be talking about a very serious issue, neither is thinking about the reasons behind an event mutually exclusive to having sympathy for those involved.

Hardyboy

As a lot of you know, I work at a university. This issue hits very close to home for me--in fact, it's a sort of nightmare scenario I've played in my head before--so I don't particularly appreciate the cynicism. Let's find out what motivated the lunatic who shot up a building on a peaceful university campus before we start blaming the culture.

Loeffelholz

I certainly hope this discussion doesn't go where I fear/expect it is going; we're not even off page 1 yet.

Best to wait until more facts are known, IMO.

My thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families.

emtiem

Hardyboy wrote:

As a lot of you know, I work at a university. This issue hits very close to home for me--in fact, it's a sort of nightmare scenario I've played in my head before--so I don't particularly appreciate the cynicism. Let's find out what motivated the lunatic who shot up a building on a peaceful university campus before we start blaming the culture.

Sadly I don't think anyone will fully understand these people. Utterly mindless.

I'm sure there's lot of people on the various news channels now blaming video games or whatever: unfortunately I can't imagine it's as simple as all that. There's perhaps some truth in what they say, but there's got to be a bucketfull of other factors, and I'm afraid that the culture they live in has got to be a part of that. Whether it's a significant part we don't know, but patterns like these don't appear unless there's some kind of root similarity defined by the place they live in: whatever the reasons it seems clear that if you're going to accept easy access to guns, you're accepting the occasional atrocity by the insane. Which is very sad.
I'd say that when I was at university it was never something that worried me.

Loeffelholz

I'm a believer in the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, myself---and a gun owner (Walther PPK, as a matter of fact). One well-placed PPK could have ended this incident quite early.

Virginia is reputedly one of the easiest states in the U.S. in which to purchase a firearm, provided one is at least 21 years of age, and without a felony conviction---in fact, Virginia issues 'concealed carry' licences---but guns are illegal on a college campus, so nobody would legally be able to defend himself (or others) with a gun in a situation such as this.

I'll be curious to learn specifics about the assailant, his weapons, and how he came to possess them.

DAWUSS

Hardyboy wrote:

As a lot of you know, I work at a university. This issue hits very close to home for me--in fact, it's a sort of nightmare scenario I've played in my head before--so I don't particularly appreciate the cynicism. Let's find out what motivated the lunatic who shot up a building on a peaceful university campus before we start blaming the culture.

Oh I'm sure violent video game developers are already receiving the blame...


I just hope this isn't going to be something that gets forgotten in a week from now...

Barbel

DAWUSS wrote:

Even though I don't use too much internet lingo on AJB, I will say QFE.

Pardon my ignorance (in the sense of not knowing, rather than being rude) but I genuinely don't understand: what does "QFE" mean?

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

I'm a believer in the 2nd Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, myself---and a gun owner (Walther PPK, as a matter of fact). One well-placed PPK could have ended this incident quite early.

Doesn't that thinking just lead to a vicious cycle, though?

And perhaps if no-one had any you might not need to have a 'well-placed PPK' in the first place. That's not to say guns and gun crime don't exist outside the US, but the apparent ease of availability, and, to be honest, the way you speak about them as a solution rather than a problem, seems totally alien to me.

Loeffelholz

Of course it is---alien to you, that is.

A well-placed PPK, today at Va Tech, could have been a solution---at least as far as this tragic incident is concerned...

As far as deeper issues, with regard to freedoms allowed in the United States of America...I'll take the bold stance that freedom is a good thing, for the most part. The gun genie has been out of the bottle since our Revolutionary War.

I'm just now hearing that the assailant was wearing a bullet-proof vest, and had automatic weapons. If true, these are illegal---as much so as hand grenades, biological weapons, et al.---so simply banning such things isn't quite the panacea for which one might hope.

emtiem

I'm not sure what you mean.

Loeffelholz

emtiem wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean.

Fair enough; I'm a gun owner, and not a mass murderer. These things can be mutually exclusive.

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

emtiem wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean.

Fair enough; I'm a gun owner, and not a mass murderer. These things can be mutually exclusive.

Please don't edit your posts after others have responded: I wasn't calling you a mass-murderer or lumping a whole culture in with one terrible person inflicting such awfulness; and I don't understand why you find someone else's view of guns as alien to be so natural. All I'm saying is that it seems very possible that a culture in which guns are acceptable (whether or not the particular type is banned) that hideous incidents such as these are to be somehow accepted too. Obviously that's not to relieve any blame from the individual involved. I hope that someone can understand why these things happen and be in a position to do something about it very soon.

A terrible thing.

Loeffelholz

You said the word 'alien' first; not I. And apologies, I was in the midst of developing a thought...ergo, I'll edit my posts when I like.

And of course you're condemning a vast group of people at a swipe...don't pretend otherwise.

At least we made it to page two...

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

You said the word 'alien' first; not I.

Yes: I'm still not accusing you of anything; just wondering why me finding a pro-gun attitude alien seems to be something to say 'of course you would' to. Why 'of course'? I don't understand what you're saying.

Loeffelholz wrote:

And apologies, I was in the midst of developing a thought...ergo, I'll edit my posts when I like.

Okay... I'm saying that by waiting until after I've replied to a terse short one sentence answer you make me look a bit silly!

Loeffelholz

Oh, sorry I thought you were asserting some sort of superiority over someone else's culture because of a recent tragedy. Glad to be mistaken about that {[]

I said 'of course it is' because I've had many (many, many) conversations with Europeans about this topic. I lived in Spain for two years, and was astounded by how many people thought America was like one continuous John Wayne movie that never ends.

All countries have issues---whether it's allowing gun ownership, or failing to crack down on domestically-spawned radicals who preach hate. Either can lead to violence; school shootings, train bombings...it's all a terrible business, indeed...and in the final analysis, we're all in the same boat on increasingly hostile waters.

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

And of course you're condemning a vast group of people at a swipe...don't pretend otherwise.

Ah- you've done it again I see!
I'm really not: I'm not sure how much more I can bang on about one individual and how he's entirely responsible for his own actions, but guns are nasty killing machines and I can't understand someone wanting them around. I'm not saying it's definitely wrong, just that it doesn't fit with my understanding. And, as I say, making easy access acceptable means accepting occasional atrocities, sadly. I'm not condemning anything or anyone, I'm just saddened by the whole thing.

emtiem

Loeffelholz wrote:

Oh, sorry I thought you were asserting some sort of superiority over someone else's culture because of a recent tragedy. Glad to be mistaken about that {[]

I don't think there's any need to be nasty or sarcastic about such a horrible incident. Heaven knows there have been a recent spate of gun deaths in the UK, so I wouldn't dare to declare a whole country guilty of a crime which is everywhere. But if a little analysis of the factors which built towards this is not something you want to hear, then I wouldn't bother going anywhere near the TV or newspapers for the next couple of months.

Loeffelholz

I figured you'd recognize the tactic

jetsetwilly

I'm of the view that any thread that consists of back and forth chat between two participants would be better off as a series of PMs rather than for public consumpton.

Perhaps you gentlemen should bear this in mind?

Loeffelholz

Sorry, JSW. I'm done.

Tee Hee

In America, we don't hand out guns to just anyone. One must be at least 21 years old and undergo a thorough background check. We realize that some people are going to abuse their privilege to own a firearm, but should the actions of the few ruin it for the majority of law-abiding citizens? I plan on raising a family one day, and one of my responsibilities will be to protect them. If that means having a gun around to ward off intruders, then so be it. Owning a gun can make all the difference in a life or death situation. Ridding the world of guns is an impossible task; they are here to stay. The horror that can be achieved by the bullet can equally be achieved through bombs, knives, poisons, etc. We must not single out the firearm.

In the end, people are going to do what they are going to do, by any means neccessary. We can't stop the human will.

I think Lazaar put it best when he said:

"Bullets do not kill, it is the finger that pulls the trigger."

Guns can be our worst enemey or our best friend. At the same time criminals use them to hurt innocent people, they can be used to stop criminals.

This is not an issue for only one country. This is a world issue!

Like Hardboy, this event also hits close to home for me. I am a college student. Today parents lost children and students lost friends for no reason at all. My thoughts and prayers are with them at this most difficult hour.

DAWUSS

QFE- Quoted for Emphasis (In other words, I couldn't have said it better myself, I agree, etc.)


I had heard something about a bomb scare happening there a couple of weeks ago... And from the looks of things right now, things were planned well in advance, and (even though I shouldn't say this) planting bombs in buildings would have been more effective than just strapping on Kevlar and pumping lead into everything that moves.


Of course, this will send all the "Anti-second amendment crowd [ie, anti-gun for people outside the US]" into a whole hullabaloo (oh wait, wrong school ) ) about making sure people can't access a gun ever again (which is not the answer - criminals are still going to get their hands on guns -- they don't care about breaking the law, look at what their intent with guns is going to be in the first place!), but that is something we're going to have to wait and see

Nightshooter

In response to emtiem, how is making guns illegal the answer? In the UK, where owning guns is illegal, there are still gun deaths, because they ARE AVAILABLE if you are willing to buy them illegally. But I'd feel safer if I could have my own gun to defend myself against those who would purchase a gun whether it was illegal or not. If guns didn't exist, then it wouldn't be a problem, but if you want a gun, you can get one, no matter what country you live in, whether guns are legal or illegal.