What Role Will Bond Girls Play in Bond 22?

Tee Hee

In CR, Bond isn’t the compulsive womanizer he usually is. Besides fooling around with Solange in attempt to obtain information about her husband, Bond fraternizes and eventually falls in love with Vesper. Immediately after Vesper’s death, Bond seems to be deeply affected. However, moments later, on the phone with M, Bond seems to have already moved on. But is Bond really over Vesper? Or is he burying his true feelings deep within himself?

As Bond 22 will be a direct continuation of CR, will Bond have had the time to fully get over Vesper or is no such healing period required? We know that Bond had at least two years to recover after Tracy was murdered, that is of course if you accept that the events of DAF are related to and follow those of OHMSS. Will Bond require a similar period to get over Vesper? Will Bond’s mission in Bond 22 be a personal vendetta?

Is Bond actually capable of falling in love anyway? And if so, how strong is it? After all, Bond is able to sleep with both Ruby and Nancy without hesitation or regret despite being in love with Tracy in OHMSS. Will Bond be able to put his personal feelings for Vesper aside for the sake of his next mission?

The reason I ask these questions is because the answers will undoubtedly have an impact on the role Bond girls will play in Bond 22. Will Bond be able to become intimate with another woman if his love for Vesper is still intact? If he has in fact gotten over Vesper, will women become the disposable pleasures of which Vesper herself alluded to? Is Vesper’s death the catalyst responsible for making Bond the man he is today, cold and emotionally detached from women?

I realize that it is purely speculation at this point. But it should be interesting to see how it all pans out.

What role do you think the Bond girls of 22 will play? Will Bond distance himself from women completely or begin to treat them as disposable pleasures? Will the Bond girls serve as potential love interests or something else?

DAWUSS

I think they always have been disposable pleasures for him, but there was something about Vesper and Tracy that made him have a genuine appreciation and love for them

blueman

I doubt any female character in Bond 22 tugs at Bond's heart...they may be fun for him, or a challenge in some way, but the armor will be back up, in spades, IMO.

JennyFlexFan

DAWUSS wrote:

I think they always have been disposable pleasures for him, but there was something about Vesper and Tracy that made him have a genuine appreciation and love for them

I always thought he loved Natalya, in a way, she was a woman that went through horrible personal experiences and was very much tormented, but still a beautiful person inside and out. She reminded me more of the modern day Tracy than Green's Vesper ever would.

I wish Natalya would return but sadly it may be too late thanks to the oh-so-great reboot. 8-)

JennyFlexFan

That may be, but because of Green's stale acting, it seemed that there was more chemistry in the Bond-Natalya relationship in GE than the Bond-Vesper relationship in CR. Just my opinion.

JennyFlexFan

Well, in my OPINION, once again, I think that the actual performance factors into the chemistry between Bond and the Bond girl. Natalya and Bond had great chemistry.

However like you said, Green was JUST talking and there was tons of romantic dialogue but does that make the audience believe that she and Bond would be in love? In my OPINION, I wasn't swayed.

Look at Paris Carver for example, it's implied that she and Bond were in love but with the stale and forgettable performance delivered by Hatcher, I wouldn't believe it for a second.

So, from my experience, the performance the actress gives factors in how much Bond may "love" the girl. In my opinion, I think he truly loved Natalya, and its a shame she never returned.

ToshTogo

I just want Bond to be the sexist pig that he is, and use woman for what they are and should be used for ( political correctness disease must be erradicated)

Number24

I think Bond's next mission will be both important to the MI6 and a personal vendetta for Bond. I also think the affairs with women will be motivated by physical attraction and perhaps practical needs (common interest etc.)
In my oppinion they will look like Vesper or look very different from Vesper.

urgences

I think he will have massive distrust of the Bond girl(s) in the next film and use them like he always has, and as a twist it will turn out that he really should have trusted her and either she gets very hurt as a result (ie killed) or he gets hurt (ex: mission foils, get back stabbed by another character who he actually did trust when he should not have, a friends gets killed when it could've been avoided).

Yet he will still feel that his mistrust of her was justified (and in the spying business, I guess it really is).

taity

Well, he may not have married Vesper, but in the novel he was considering it. Also, I dont think his line about floating around the world with Vsper was refering to a two week **** fest that Bond had in mind.

Ive always had a feeling that Bond likes somewhat weaker women. This is women like Natalya, Tracy, Vesper or even Paris. When saying weaker, I mean they are not the Bond equal physically - not refering to how competant their character is. When he's put up against a strong woman - Jinx or Wai Lin it always feels as if he's just passing time with the character. When he's coupled with a weak girl - Goodnight, Kissy - he'd get bored and walk out.

JennyFlexFan

taity, I'm glad that you appreciate Natalya as much as I do.

Loeffelholz

Great question, TH.

Much has been said already about the relative likelihood of #22 being more of a 'traditional' Bond film, now that the reboot is out of the way, or whether the style and tone of CR will carry over.

My gut tells me that Bond Girl #22---and 007's relationship to her---might possibly be the most traditional ingredient in the picture. Blue put it well when he talked about Bond's 'armor' being back on---big time. I think the last seam was fused solid in Vesper's death scene; Bond's grief cauterized those emotional wounds---which will stay sealed until he finally falls for Tracy, at some point in the vague future (relative to CR).

Mind you, I'm not saying they won't give a few hints at his baggage (such as was done on the beach scene in GE with Natalya, or the way Bond chose not to reply to Electra's question about losing a loved one in TWINE)...but I think that, aside from the female lead's direct function in the story structure, she will indeed just the sort of disposable object to which Vesper referred on the train to Montenegro.

Vesper and Tracy were the only two 'tragic' Bond Girls in the original canon; I don't think we're likely to see another one push the envelope, in this particular way, for a good long while. And although Literary Bond (I think) truly fell in love with his leading ladies, this has been far more rare on film---but then again, it's all according to what the individual Bond fan takes from a given film. Many of us believe certain relationships and moments, many of us don't.

Still, I think an element of revenge-as-motivation will be in play next time round; certainly moreso than in DAF

As to whether Bond Girl #22 will be a kick-ass she-spy, a saucy scientist know-it-all, or an insipid damsel-in-distress, only P&W know for sure, and they're not talking...yet :v

Harry Palmer

Loeffelholz wrote:

Great question, TH.

My gut tells me that Bond Girl #22---and 007's relationship to her---might possibly be the most traditional ingredient in the picture. Blue put it well when he talked about Bond's 'armor' being back on---big time.

If it were up to me, the next Bond would not have a proper leading lady but a series (2 or 3) of insignificant affairs that Bond has along the way for the sake of the mission. Maybe one of them could end up in Bond's arms at the end, but she'd be brought there by circumstances, rather than by some kind of Bondian sense of loyalty (or even affection).

I'd also write her reasonably capable (not a dumb bimbo) but also out-of-place in a world of spies. Bewildered, realistically scared (as we would all be) without being an embarrassment to the fairer sex. Something in the line of Natalya in GE but without the touchy-feely.

darenhat

If there really is a 'revenge' motive as a driving element in Bond 22, then the women would have to be disposable pleasures in order to punctuate the character motives. However, I would hope that there is no revenge motive in the next film, simply because IMO that diminishes the 'bitch is dead' line in CR. Bond purposefully detached himself emotionally from Vesper in the novels and no more is mentioned about her after that. I know that Vesper is supposed to make an 'appearance' in 22, but I think that's a mistake (part of my 'mishandled plotting' tirade which I won't go into here).

As far as the literary Bond goes, it took a few extra novels before Bond really becomes emotionally involved with his female companion at a sincere level: with Tiffany Case in DAF.

Smoke_13

All I know about what I want to see from women in the Bond world is what I don't want to see.

1) I don't want the leading lady to be billed as a female James Bond, or "Bondian" equal.
2) I don't want the leading lady to be a Grace Jones style toughie or to kill people with something phony like leg scissors.
3) I don't want an obvious bimbo actress playing a nuclear physicist. No need for names people, no need for names.

Don't do any of the 3 and I think you could have a winner.

PS. Good looks never hurt

Loeffelholz

darenhat wrote:

If there really is a 'revenge' motive as a driving element in Bond 22, then the women would have to be disposable pleasures in order to punctuate the character motives. However, I would hope that there is no revenge motive in the next film, simply because IMO that diminishes the 'bitch is dead' line in CR. Bond purposefully detached himself emotionally from Vesper in the novels and no more is mentioned about her after that.

I predict that the question of revenge will be posed to Bond at some point---by M (who else?); some variation of the classic "this isn't a private vendetta, 007!"

Bond will (convincingly) deny that there's any revenge motive...but we'll see a glint of satisfaction in his eye when the job is done. He'll be in some babe's arms at the end...but (hopefully) the observant viewer will see signs that he's suppressing something inside himself.

Tee Hee

Loeffelholz wrote:

I predict that the question of revenge will be posed to Bond at some point---by M (who else?); some variation of the classic "this isn't a private vendetta, 007!"

Bond will (convincingly) deny that there's any revenge motive...but we'll see a glint of satisfaction in his eye when the job is done.

I forsee something like this too Loeffs. Presuming that Vesper will appear on video and that Bond meets up with Vesper's French-Algerian boyfriend, it is inevitable that Bond's feelings for Vesper (if any) will be revealed and the question of revenge will be answered.

At the end of CR, Bond makes it obvious that he no longer trusts anyone. Based on this fact, I don't think he will let himself get too close to a woman again, at least for a while.

It should be interesting to see if P&W include a scene similar to those in TSWLM and TWINE where a woman tries to pry into Bond's past relationships. Will Craig's Bond be sensitive to the subject? I'll guess we'll have to wait and see. :v

Number24

Smoke_13 wrote:

wrote:

1) I don't want the leading lady to be billed as a female James Bond, or "Bondian" equal.
2) I don't want the leading lady to be a Grace Jones style toughie or to kill people with something phony like leg scissors.
3) I don't want an obvious bimbo actress playing a nuclear physicist. No need for names people, no need for names.

Don't do any of the 3 and I think you could have a winner.

PS. Good looks never hurt

I couldn't agree more!

Dan Same

Tee Hee wrote:

Is Vesper’s death the catalyst responsible for making Bond the man he is today, cold and emotionally detached from women?

God, I hope not. I'm not concerned if Bond 22 has a revenge motive, but I intensely dislike the idea of there being such a specific and simplistic cause + effect in Bond's world; Vesper (whom Bond felt for) dies which hurts Bond and therefore he becomes 'cold and emotionally detached from women.' I know that I often go on about my dislike of Bondian psychoanalyzing, but this is IMO a perfect example of it. It's too neat and tidy, and quite frankly, it goes against my own interpretation of the character of the Cinematic Bond.

Nonetheless, what I would prefer is that Bond 22 reverts back to the traditional Bond films in terms of his sleeping with several women, and his ending the film with one of them. Wether or not he has reverted back to these casual relationships due to the death of Vesper, should be left up to the individual viewer.

Loeffelholz

Dan Same wrote:

Tee Hee wrote:

Is Vesper’s death the catalyst responsible for making Bond the man he is today, cold and emotionally detached from women?

God, I hope not. I'm not concerned if Bond 22 has a revenge motive, but I intensely dislike the idea of there being such a specific and simplistic cause + effect in Bond's world; Vesper (whom Bond felt for) dies which hurts Bond and therefore he becomes 'cold and emotionally detached from women.' I know that I often go on about my dislike of Bondian psychoanalyzing, but this is IMO a perfect example of it. It's too neat and tidy, and quite frankly, it goes against my own interpretation of the character of the Cinematic Bond.

Here is where it gets interesting: the spark created by friction between the Cinematic Bond and the 'Real (to me) Bond'---the Literary One. The differences between the two have been quite extreme at times; currently (IMO) they are less so.

Fleming himself never indulged in the 'psychoanalyzing' you dislike*---that is a product of the Cinematic. Eon simply cannot resist hitting us 'on the nose' with a bit of this from time to time, just to make sure the audience doesn't miss it.

Dan Same wrote:

...what I would prefer is that Bond 22 reverts back to the traditional Bond films in terms of his sleeping with several women, and his ending the film with one of them. Wether or not he has reverted back to these casual relationships due to the death of Vesper, should be left up to the individual viewer.

Ironically, you can get this by reading the books,** but obviously the sheer volume of women is reduced. The only time Bond is actually consumed by revenge is in the final half of the YOLT novel, which occurs after OHMSS. At the beginning of YOLT, he is very near a nervous breakdown, has bungled a couple of important jobs, and is on the verge of being cashiered out of the Service. As a last chance, M gives Bond a diplomatic mission to Japan...and revenge ultimately ensues...

Speaking of Bond Girls playing a significant role, I'd love it if a future Bond girl does what Kissy Susuki does at the end of the YOLT novel in some future movie...talk about a cliffhanger ending

* The obvious exception being the couple of times through the course of the books when Sir James Molony, the Service's resident shrink, gives M updates on Bond's condition...but these are quite different from Bond being bitched at by Dame Judi or the current Bond Girl.

** The price for this, however, is that you'd have to endure the more 'human' Bond