OP or AVTAK?
Prince Kamal Khan
Posts: 277MI6 Agent
AVTAK is often called a remake of GF.
However, in many ways I think the Bond film it resembles most is its immediate predecessor OP.
Just curious, which one of Roger Moore's last 2 Bond films do you prefer and why?
However, in many ways I think the Bond film it resembles most is its immediate predecessor OP.
Just curious, which one of Roger Moore's last 2 Bond films do you prefer and why?
Comments
Acceleration is the greatest strength of the Moore era, imo. Although this was the last one to effectively convey it.
Not to say that OP isn't good because it is!
I also think that the location work is more impressive, but it may just be because downtown San Fransisco looks like every other major western city, whereas India is unique.
Anyway, perhaps my post in the "Best Bond Film Ever!" thread will answer your question:
-Roger Moore
For those of you who do prefer AVTAK to OP, would you mind elaborating what you prefer about it? To me, OP beats it in just about every category with the possible exception of its music and I'd be curious to read what you all prefer about AVTAK to OP and why?
Thanks,
PKK
Moore seems younger to me in AVTAK, less overheated and liver spotted than in OP (in fact he even looked that way in FYEO). I prefer Patrick Macnee to Vijay as a doomed sidekick, prefer Grace Jones to the turbaned henchman in OP, prefer Walken to Jordan. The score is more pumping and dynamic, and Duran Duran is, in retrospect, the last great Bond song.
Beach Boys aside, there's less goonish humour eg "hiss off!", the tarzan yell, the inserted bed on nails/fire-eater sequence, Bond pretending to be a corpse coming to life, Bond pretending to be crippled at the end so he can suprise Octopussy... less crude innuendo. AVTAK is less derivative, OP seemed to borrow from the Raiders series too much for my liking.
However, I do like OP and if you like your Bond Cold War and gritty, there are a couple of things in there along those lines.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
There is something endearing about a couple of geriatrics sleuthing around the chateau in A View To A Kill. Nevertheless, the whole enterprise is pretty tired and, devastatingly for a Bond picture, lacking in danger. There are enjoyable aspects to it, such as Grace Jones and some of the lighter moments are actually quite well effected. I have also come to enjoy Walken as Zorin's distant psycho. Overall, however, it is weighed down and exhausted with little to recommend it. By the time Bond bakes a quiche all is truly lost.
That is not to say that A View To A Kill is not amusing. In my opinion, though, it is not a well-executed film.
I much prefer OP. I think it is actually a pretty good Bond film, unlike AVTAK which I can't stand. The reasons I prefer OP are numerous; I think it has a better (and more original) plot, I think the action scenes and stunts are better, I think that the Bond girls are superior, I prefer the jokes in OP to AVTAK (not including the Tarzan yell), I consider Moore's performance in OP to have been his last great performance, I consider the locations to be better in OP than those in AVTAK, I think that OP has better gadgets and I consider 'All Time High' to be the last great Bond theme song. (I can not, for the life of me, understand why people prefer AVTAK's theme song to OP's theme song. ?:)) The one thing that AVTAK has over OP is the main villain, however we are talking about Christopher Walken, so that's not particularly surprising.
AVTAK isn't as good by any means, but I find it watchable and certainly not as bad as some. I have a curious affection for it even though it's nowhere near my favourite.
Well...so much for that :v
Suffice it to say that these are my least favourite Bond films ever---no contest; not even close---but cheers to all who enjoy them! {[]
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
However, I have concluded that you wouldn't know a good film if one struck you in the head.
Ah well, at least you rank OP above AVTAK. I'll give you that.
-Roger Moore
Aptly stated, as both of these films left me feeling exactly as if I'd been struck in the head!
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
On the whole OP contains more unforgivable moments of silliness (Bond as a clown being one of them) and let's not even mention the Tarzan yawp. But the plot is better paced and I like the Cold-War setting. More international intrigue and more "Property of a Lady" material would have been better.
AVTAK in Paris is enjoyable enough, but the San Francisco fire-truck chase is just too long and too silly. I actually thought Roger looked more convinced (and convincing) as Bond in AVTAK than in OP (I can forgive him his overweight waistline, and the obvious fitness issues up the Eiffel Tower).
I might've known... X-( :v
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I don't agree that Bond in the clown suit constitutes a moment of silliness, let alone an unforgivable one. I mean, it certainly wasn't slapstick-- they didn't try and milk any unnecessary humor out of it-- and it made perfect sense in the context of what was happening (ie., Bond undercover at a circus). Beyond that, the scene, as he is racing to defuse the bomb, is terrifically tense, clown suit and all. As an aside, I've always found it symbolically apt considering that Moore was the "entertaining" Bond.
RE the whole OP vs. AVTAK debate, as it stands OP is far and away my favorite, however I really need to view both films again before making a solid decision.
By contrast,A View to a Kill looks like a bad imitation of a James Bond film.
I also would never have called the scene in Octopussy where Roger dons the clown outfit as silly- imho, it's one of the edgiest and most tense scenes in the series, and one of Roger's best performances. The joke at the end involving the man in the cannon I find to be wonderful too, as it comes as a perfect antidote after a long and very tense sequence of setpieces. Honestly, I watch Octopussy sometimes wondering if I'll go off it and discover the flaws that some other fans find (there are a few, but certainly not as many as in some Bond films, imho), but I am thoroughly entertained by it everytime and it remains a favourite.
Probably Moore's finest hour. -{
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Well, anyway, A View to A Kill is definitely my pick of the two. Though I have to admit I´haven´t watched either one for a little while now.
Packed with over-the-tilt villains, innovative action spectacles, balls of stainless-steel-stuntwork, and Sir Roger Moore's irresistable persona. If that wasn't enough to entertain you, they also decided to add an island completely inhabited with rippling, big hair, spandex clad, black-widow beauties to boot.
Compared to that, A View To A Krapp is left desolate and alone in the dry dust of a streaking Acrostar.
I have certainly heard a lot of revisionist history, explaining in detail how the series had become obsolete by this point due to big budget blockbusters from major motion studios.
To that, I say, Hogwash.