Yeah, good point. I like some of DAF's moments and performances a lot, but the movie itself drags Bond through the mud IMO; Dalton made an interesting, not-fully-realized Bond, but his two films were deeply flawed; GE has some exciting moments, but comes across in the end as a mess.
Agree with Loeff, gotta go with the full package, leave the little bits on the trail.
Hey Blue, considering that your list is "select," in that it doesn't have all the films, I'm surprised to see that TND and MR made it in. We also share the same #1!
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
I do enjoy it on telly, though on Xmas Day after a blow out it is horribly slow moving and stodgy. Still, it's the quintessial 60s spy film anyhow. I prefer the first half generally and there are some very good one-liners. Just, it was a bad experience on a huge screen.
"This is where we leave you Mr Bond."
Roger Moore 1927-2017
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Wow...TB a 'bad experience' on a huge screen.
If you say so.
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Yeah, good point. I like some of DAF's moments and performances a lot, but the movie itself drags Bond through the mud IMO; Dalton made an interesting, not-fully-realized Bond, but his two films were deeply flawed; GE has some exciting moments, but comes across in the end as a mess.
Agree with Loeff, gotta go with the full package, leave the little bits on the trail.
Hey Blue, considering that your list is "select," in that it doesn't have all the films, I'm surprised to see that TND and MR made it in. We also share the same #1!
I guess everybody has their line in the sand, this far and no further, lol.
I beginning to think that I'm the only person that really likes LTK. Yes, there are others I like more, but the darker gritter edge is a nice change of pace after the silliness of the Roger Moore era. I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
I beginning to think that I'm the only person that really likes LTK. Yes, there are others I like more, but the darker gritter edge is a nice change of pace after the silliness of the Roger Moore era. I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
Rest assured--you're not alone.I too think that Davi's Sanchez was one of the series' better villains,and also that Dalton was a great James Bond.Licence to Kill is 4th on my list.
I beginning to think that I'm the only person that really likes LTK.
Put me down as a fan too Odowan.
Yes, there are others I like more, but the darker gritter edge is a nice change of pace after the silliness of the Roger Moore era.
I do enjoy much of the Moore era for different reasons (including Moonraker), however I absolutely agree that the darker, grittier and more violent edge evident in Licence to Kill is most welcome. Right throughout that picture is a real sense of danger, something necessary in the best Bond films for me.
I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
Agreed again; Davi plays the part with relish. Moreover, Benicio del Toro's Dario is perhaps the series' best henchman: menacing, vicious and violent and played with absolute seriousness.
I thought the violence in LTK came off...I dunno, just not Bondian. Felt like a missing SCARFACE sequel rather than a slice of Fleming. Liked Davi, just not how he was used, kinda how I feel about Dalton as Bond. Right idea, wrong way to go about it, IMO.
I liked LTK well enough at the time... then again, it was the year of Lethal Weapon 2, The Last Crusade and Batman, which all had Bondian stuff galore, so my needs were satiated. I liked its straightforward storyline, and I never really went for those FRWL wannabees, they were never quite serious enough for me. Yes, Davi was a great villain with real menace.
But it's one of the few I don't need to own on DVD. Not insultingly bad like DAD, just no real action highlights until the end. It all looks a bit cut price and unexotic. Whereas TLD, for its faults (imo) has a good change of scene and some nice looking stuff. I mean compare the two pts's. LTK just looks naff there. Yet I did enjoy it in the cinema at the time, so context is everything.
I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
I agree with you there. I'm not a big LTK fan (I don't love by the screenplay and I consider Dalton's performance to have been the worst performance by the worst Bond) but I thought that Sanchez was a terrific villain and one of LTK's few bright spots. It reminds me of AVTAK; another terrible Bond film with a high quality villain.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I beginning to think that I'm the only person that really likes LTK. Yes, there are others I like more, but the darker gritter edge is a nice change of pace after the silliness of the Roger Moore era. I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
Rest assured--you're not alone.I too think that Davi's Sanchez was one of the series' better villains,and also that Dalton was a great James Bond.Licence to Kill is 4th on my list.
I feel the same way about the film and the villain. In my list it takes the 6th spot
I beginning to think that I'm the only person that really likes LTK. Yes, there are others I like more, but the darker gritter edge is a nice change of pace after the silliness of the Roger Moore era. I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
Hi Odowan,
I've checked your list and I think it's arguably the one I could most easily adopt as my own.
There are some slight divergences of opinion, most notably in your treatment of GE and TSWLM (which I would switch around). I can also live with TLD at #8, though in my list it comes in second. But on the whole I don't find anything scandalous in your choices (such as, for instance, placing TMWTGG, LLD or DAD in the top 5, or leaving one of my favourites out of your top 10).
So, allow me to congratulate you on your good taste {[]
Mine is a mixture- I do prefer the edgier, grittier and slightly more realistic ones in general, but I also like the fun romps like Goldfinger and Octopussy where the humour isn't too overdone (and I don't think it is in Octopussy, personally speaking).
The only one of the 'big budget spectaculars' I like all that much is 'The Spy Who Loved Me'; films like 'Thunderball' and some of the Brosnan entries (mainly DAD, but the 2nd half of TND too) have too much pyrotechnics and not enough soul, imho of course. I'm slightly more favourable towards YOLT despite Connery's non-performance because it's terrifically paced and the action is often superb- I find the underwater scenes in Thunderball sometimes plodding and the action in TND and DAD to be totally pedestrian.
The Dalton films rank in the middle of mine, pretty much- like them both, but prefer the ones I list above it for various reasons (though the Dalton ones improve every time I watch them). The ones towards the bottom I am obviously less favourable towards- the two I find very weak are DAD and TMWTTGG, the lower ones before that I can usually find a fair few strong points about.
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
I thought the violence in LTK came off...I dunno, just not Bondian. Felt like a missing SCARFACE sequel rather than a slice of Fleming. Liked Davi, just not how he was used, kinda how I feel about Dalton as Bond. Right idea, wrong way to go about it, IMO.
After enjoying the freshness of TLD, I got really hyped with the trailers for LTK, esp. zeroing in to the quick clip of Bond bashing a henchman's head on the table. I felt that after TLD (no surprise that it was originally written for Moore), Dalton was finally "unleashed" in LTK. So, everything's relative, and that head smash on table scene instantly made me think Fleming (such as Bond kicking Mr. Big's henchman in the 'nads with a steel-toe shoe). I agree the action could have been acted and directed better (I blame Glen!), but nonetheless I find the sudden increase in Bond's brutality quotient very similar to Craig's take, in that the same dynamics are in play, though at different levels of quality.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
...everything's relative, and that head smash on table scene instantly made me think Fleming (such as Bond kicking Mr. Big's henchman in the 'nads with a steel-toe shoe)...I find the sudden increase in Bond's brutality quotient very similar to Craig's take, in that the same dynamics are in play, though at different levels of quality.
I'm with you there...but I've a feeling we differ as to which entry is more 'quality.' But no matter! I think brutality, with regard to 007, is undervalued. I'm hoping he takes a tactical baton to some kneecaps next time round :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
...everything's relative, and that head smash on table scene instantly made me think Fleming (such as Bond kicking Mr. Big's henchman in the 'nads with a steel-toe shoe)...I find the sudden increase in Bond's brutality quotient very similar to Craig's take, in that the same dynamics are in play, though at different levels of quality.
I'm with you there...but I've a feeling we differ as to which entry is more 'quality.' But no matter! I think brutality, with regard to 007, is undervalued. I'm hoping he takes a tactical baton to some kneecaps next time round :007)
Well, if I can gauge your feelings correctly, I think we actually agree. I love Dalton but fault him generally on two counts, his unease with Bond's privileged lifestyle (per the books, Etonian, an officer, etc.), and his action sequences that really look influenced by his theater background. Craig is very good with the action sequences and I'd say ranks among the best if not the best, but I still don't buy him fitting in with the "lifestyle," even at the more modest, literary level.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
Well, if I can gauge your feeling correctly, I think we actually agree. I love Dalton but fault him generally on two counts, his unease with Bond's priveleged lifestyle (per the books, Etonian, an officer, etc.), and his action sequences that really look influenced by his theater background. Craig is very good with the action sequences and I'd say ranks among the best if not the best, but I still don't buy him fitting in with the "lifestyle," even at the more modest, literary level.
Wow. I guess we do agree after all B-)
Excellent points. I enjoy Dalton as well---his action stuff seemed positively kinetic when compared to that which had come before---but the physical performances have continued to improve since then: Brosnan was surprisingly good, given his relative slightness early on, and Craig's action 'presence' is dominating.
As far as the 'lifestyle' issue (by which I assume you mean suaveness, sophistication, comfort with elegance, etc.)...I'd have to agree that's Craig's primary challenge going forward. The filmmakers would be smart to address this very early on next time round.
Based on CR's final shot, I'm feeling optimistic :007)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I loved Craig in the "lifestyle": in Nassau, at the casino especially...he just seemed like a spy moving through different worlds very well, yet remaining himself. Never thought Fleming's Bond was all that comfortable with the high end stuff--oh he liked to be pampered, but he liked even more to dust his knuckles on somebody's face, or figure out a particular spy-type problem. Craig captured that very well IMO, he looked very comfy playing cards yet threw himself unhesitantly into the action as it came up. Early Bond, with Connery spending just a few minutes in a casino or a posh hotel, then running around in a jungle or bashing hell out of an enemy agent on a train, is my Bond. If there's one thing I fault Lazenby for, it's the whole Prince Charles attitude he brought to the role (copout of an inexperienced actor, IMO). EON created the super-suave movie Bond, really cementing it with Moore in the 70s, I was damn glad to see them tear that down a wee bit with CR, and not make Craig into yet another too-posh Bond. Had just the right amount for me. :007) Hope with Craig established as "the Bond we know and love" at the end of CR, they don't revert back to super-suave Bond...a bit more would be okay, but I'd be sad if we never see the Bond who gate-crashed into M's house again.
superadoRegent's Park West (CaliforniaPosts: 2,656MI6 Agent
"Posh Bond" ) I can take the different degrees of the Bond lifestyle, but what I meant was just the general comfort of Bond in his life's station for a lack of a better term and not necessarily the dapper beau brummel excesses that movie Bond went to from time to time. I wouldn't mind even if he doesn't go around dropping connoisseur terminology to impress others, like what Connery did.
I think it's a mistake to give in to doing that w/Craig, just to appease it seems, those particular expectations on movie Bond. I think the clincher is having that certain bearing, which IMO literary Bond had and which shown through the veneer regardless of what he was doing, whether working, lounging at home or having some unguarded R&R while on holiday.
"...the purposeful slant of his striding figure looked dangerous, as if he was making quickly for something bad that was happening further down the street." -SMERSH on 007 dossier photo, Ch. 6 FRWL.....
I beginning to think that I'm the only person that really likes LTK. Yes, there are others I like more, but the darker gritter edge is a nice change of pace after the silliness of the Roger Moore era. I also think Sanchez is one of the best Bond villains. He's not as two dimensional as most of the others.
Hi Odowan,
I've checked your list and I think it's arguably the one I could most easily adopt as my own.
There are some slight divergences of opinion, most notably in your treatment of GE and TSWLM (which I would switch around). I can also live with TLD at #8, though in my list it comes in second. But on the whole I don't find anything scandalous in your choices (such as, for instance, placing TMWTGG, LLD or DAD in the top 5, or leaving one of my favourites out of your top 10).
So, allow me to congratulate you on your good taste {[]
TLD is still in a very high place on my list. I just have a couple problems with it like a boring Bond girl and lousy villains. But I think the fight on the cargo net is one of the best in the series.
Good topic, and I've really enjoyed this feature since I joined here.
Is it just me, or does anybody else do a lot of shuffling depending on your most recent viewings, and whether you really enjoyed one and moved it up, or maybe you were tired that night, fell asleep halfway through the movie, and then moved that film down on your list?
For instance I really loved Thunderball the last time I saw it, and at that moment I moved it up a few spots to 1 replacing GF, but perhaps the next time I watch any of my top 5 I may move that one up or down a few spots as well. Goldfinger or FRWL will probably move back up to the top spot after the next viewing as well!
I also enjoyed TMWTGG a lot more than I remembered the last time I watched it, so it had to be bumped up a few. Never anything too dramatic yet, as their relative locations still remain the same, although as the new ripple in the Bond pool, CR has this potential IMO.
I know DanSame's lists are etched into giant stone tablets , but I thought other members may change their lists from time to time like me.
Yep, they shuffle around, though in groups: the top films are always up there, the bottom ones flip flop around the bottom, and the middle ones are just stubbornly in the middle.
I know DanSame's lists are etched into giant stone tablets
) True, especially when it comes to my top four (GF, FRWL, TB, DN.) This will probably come as a shock but I am currently updating my list. I am in the process of rewatching all the Bond films, and once I have done so, I will alter my list accordingly (and I will also rank CR.) Of the films that I have rewatched, however, only *DAF looks as if I will be changing its ranking. Until I construct a new list (which won't look all that different to my current list), I will be keeping my old list.
*I'm considering dropping DAF a few places down the list.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I know DanSame's lists are etched into giant stone tablets
) True, especially when it comes to my top four (GF, FRWL, TB, DN.) This will probably come as a shock but I am currently updating my list. I am in the process of rewatching all the Bond films, and once I have done so, I will alter my list accordingly (and I will also rank CR.) Of the films that I have rewatched, however, only *DAF looks as if I will be changing its ranking. Until I construct a new list (which won't look all that different to my current list), I will be keeping my old list.
*I'm considering dropping DAF a few places down the list.
What about AVTAK? Will TLD ever replace it at the bottom?
I know DanSame's lists are etched into giant stone tablets
) True, especially when it comes to my top four (GF, FRWL, TB, DN.) This will probably come as a shock but I am currently updating my list. I am in the process of rewatching all the Bond films, and once I have done so, I will alter my list accordingly (and I will also rank CR.) Of the films that I have rewatched, however, only *DAF looks as if I will be changing its ranking. Until I construct a new list (which won't look all that different to my current list), I will be keeping my old list.
*I'm considering dropping DAF a few places down the list.
What about AVTAK? Will TLD ever replace it at the bottom?
That is quite possible actually.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Good topic, and I've really enjoyed this feature since I joined here.
Is it just me, or does anybody else do a lot of shuffling depending on your most recent viewings, and whether you really enjoyed one and moved it up?
Cheers, Slazenger7 ;%
Yes, I moved DAF to my top 5 ahead of OHMSS. Heresy, I know. But I watched it recently and loved the comedy and fun of it, terric one liners and Connery in top form (not physically I suppose). Good chemistry between him and the girl, too. CF OHMSS, which is a more admirable film with better action when it gets going, but Lazenby doesn't get one laugh out of me the whole pick, no chemistry between him and Rigg, unconvincing romance, Bond as a heraldry expert! Pull the other one and a rather boring first 30 mins imo.
Comments
Hey Blue, considering that your list is "select," in that it doesn't have all the films, I'm surprised to see that TND and MR made it in. We also share the same #1!
Alot of people talk about how they dislike TB... What's with all the hate for it?[/quote]
You can read my account of TB on the big screen here:
http://www.ajb007.co.uk/index.php?topic=26409
I do enjoy it on telly, though on Xmas Day after a blow out it is horribly slow moving and stodgy. Still, it's the quintessial 60s spy film anyhow. I prefer the first half generally and there are some very good one-liners. Just, it was a bad experience on a huge screen.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
If you say so.
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I guess everybody has their line in the sand, this far and no further, lol.
Oh, please spare us!
I've got LTK placed 3rd on my list, under (2nd)TSWLM and (1st) OHMSS, so you are not alone Odowan.
Rest assured--you're not alone.I too think that Davi's Sanchez was one of the series' better villains,and also that Dalton was a great James Bond.Licence to Kill is 4th on my list.
I do enjoy much of the Moore era for different reasons (including Moonraker), however I absolutely agree that the darker, grittier and more violent edge evident in Licence to Kill is most welcome. Right throughout that picture is a real sense of danger, something necessary in the best Bond films for me.
Agreed again; Davi plays the part with relish. Moreover, Benicio del Toro's Dario is perhaps the series' best henchman: menacing, vicious and violent and played with absolute seriousness.
But it's one of the few I don't need to own on DVD. Not insultingly bad like DAD, just no real action highlights until the end. It all looks a bit cut price and unexotic. Whereas TLD, for its faults (imo) has a good change of scene and some nice looking stuff. I mean compare the two pts's. LTK just looks naff there. Yet I did enjoy it in the cinema at the time, so context is everything.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Roger Moore 1927-2017
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I feel the same way about the film and the villain. In my list it takes the 6th spot
Hi Odowan,
I've checked your list and I think it's arguably the one I could most easily adopt as my own.
There are some slight divergences of opinion, most notably in your treatment of GE and TSWLM (which I would switch around). I can also live with TLD at #8, though in my list it comes in second. But on the whole I don't find anything scandalous in your choices (such as, for instance, placing TMWTGG, LLD or DAD in the top 5, or leaving one of my favourites out of your top 10).
So, allow me to congratulate you on your good taste {[]
The only one of the 'big budget spectaculars' I like all that much is 'The Spy Who Loved Me'; films like 'Thunderball' and some of the Brosnan entries (mainly DAD, but the 2nd half of TND too) have too much pyrotechnics and not enough soul, imho of course. I'm slightly more favourable towards YOLT despite Connery's non-performance because it's terrifically paced and the action is often superb- I find the underwater scenes in Thunderball sometimes plodding and the action in TND and DAD to be totally pedestrian.
The Dalton films rank in the middle of mine, pretty much- like them both, but prefer the ones I list above it for various reasons (though the Dalton ones improve every time I watch them). The ones towards the bottom I am obviously less favourable towards- the two I find very weak are DAD and TMWTTGG, the lower ones before that I can usually find a fair few strong points about.
After enjoying the freshness of TLD, I got really hyped with the trailers for LTK, esp. zeroing in to the quick clip of Bond bashing a henchman's head on the table. I felt that after TLD (no surprise that it was originally written for Moore), Dalton was finally "unleashed" in LTK. So, everything's relative, and that head smash on table scene instantly made me think Fleming (such as Bond kicking Mr. Big's henchman in the 'nads with a steel-toe shoe). I agree the action could have been acted and directed better (I blame Glen!), but nonetheless I find the sudden increase in Bond's brutality quotient very similar to Craig's take, in that the same dynamics are in play, though at different levels of quality.
I'm with you there...but I've a feeling we differ as to which entry is more 'quality.'
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
Well, if I can gauge your feelings correctly, I think we actually agree. I love Dalton but fault him generally on two counts, his unease with Bond's privileged lifestyle (per the books, Etonian, an officer, etc.), and his action sequences that really look influenced by his theater background. Craig is very good with the action sequences and I'd say ranks among the best if not the best, but I still don't buy him fitting in with the "lifestyle," even at the more modest, literary level.
Wow. I guess we do agree after all B-)
Excellent points. I enjoy Dalton as well---his action stuff seemed positively kinetic when compared to that which had come before---but the physical performances have continued to improve since then: Brosnan was surprisingly good, given his relative slightness early on, and Craig's action 'presence' is dominating.
As far as the 'lifestyle' issue (by which I assume you mean suaveness, sophistication, comfort with elegance, etc.)...I'd have to agree that's Craig's primary challenge going forward. The filmmakers would be smart to address this very early on next time round.
Based on CR's final shot, I'm feeling optimistic :007)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I think it's a mistake to give in to doing that w/Craig, just to appease it seems, those particular expectations on movie Bond. I think the clincher is having that certain bearing, which IMO literary Bond had and which shown through the veneer regardless of what he was doing, whether working, lounging at home or having some unguarded R&R while on holiday.
TLD is still in a very high place on my list. I just have a couple problems with it like a boring Bond girl and lousy villains. But I think the fight on the cargo net is one of the best in the series.
Is it just me, or does anybody else do a lot of shuffling depending on your most recent viewings, and whether you really enjoyed one and moved it up, or maybe you were tired that night, fell asleep halfway through the movie, and then moved that film down on your list?
For instance I really loved Thunderball the last time I saw it, and at that moment I moved it up a few spots to 1 replacing GF, but perhaps the next time I watch any of my top 5 I may move that one up or down a few spots as well. Goldfinger or FRWL will probably move back up to the top spot after the next viewing as well!
I also enjoyed TMWTGG a lot more than I remembered the last time I watched it, so it had to be bumped up a few. Never anything too dramatic yet, as their relative locations still remain the same, although as the new ripple in the Bond pool, CR has this potential IMO.
I know DanSame's lists are etched into giant stone tablets
Now, if only bigzilcho would make his list. :007)
*I'm considering dropping DAF a few places down the list.
What about AVTAK? Will TLD ever replace it at the bottom?
Cheers, Slazenger7 ;%
Yes, I moved DAF to my top 5 ahead of OHMSS. Heresy, I know. But I watched it recently and loved the comedy and fun of it, terric one liners and Connery in top form (not physically I suppose). Good chemistry between him and the girl, too. CF OHMSS, which is a more admirable film with better action when it gets going, but Lazenby doesn't get one laugh out of me the whole pick, no chemistry between him and Rigg, unconvincing romance, Bond as a heraldry expert! Pull the other one and a rather boring first 30 mins imo.
Roger Moore 1927-2017