I think delicious's helpful observations about Obsidian Masquerade's shortcomings are excellent.They're well-reasoned and would make good guidelines in the writing of future novels.However,much as I appreciate these insights, I can't agree on the James Bond character being completely above mind control.Granted,we didn't research that situation well nor were the sequences presenting 007 in that state written particularly well.That element of the story may have been a creative failure perhaps,but at the very least it put 007 in a different predicament from usually occurs in these novels.Maybe one day in the future another group of writers will use a similar idea and they'll be more successful with it.
At any rate, it's interesting to note that there is precedent for 007 to be manipulated by his adversaries via mind control.In Ian Fleming's novel The Man With the Golden Gun,James Bond is captured by Soviet agents and is brainwashed to kill "M".He very nearly succeeds--only an secret armor plate rising out of "M"'s desk saves the spymaster from certain death.
And Fleming also made James Bond vulnerable in other ways.At the beginning of the You Only Live Twice novel,we learn that following Tracy's murder,a guilt-ridden 007 suffered a nervous breakdown.At the close of this book 007 is an amnesiac--and this condition plays an important part in Bond's immediate future.
Like many people I enjoy seeing the generally unflappable (and often nearly invincible) Eon Productions version of 007 triumph on the movie screen.But that said, I also believe that the literary James Bond's ability to rise above his personal circumstances is more heroic,and indeed more admirable than what we usually find him dealing with in most of the motion picture stories.Now,I'm not suggesting for one instant that a fanfiction version of James Bond ever be presented as overly fragile--but by the same token, I also think that 007 should not be absolutely impervious from every assault waged against him,including possible psychological ones.
Just a thought.:)
All very valid points WG. I have read most of but not all of the Bond books as i finmd Fleming's style heavy going msot of the time. And I am very biased towards the cinematic Bond. I think the 2 different versions of Bond are the root of the problem. Perhaps a team should agree on which version will be used in a fanfic.
While, yes, terrorism is almost always a theme in 007, OM eventually reverted to the "formulaic" version where the villain wants to blow things up and kill by the masses, as opposed to ruining the lives of just a handful of people, and killing just a few.
I think you are misapplying the actions of the villian here. It was decided early on that Obsidian's main drive was greed, which is a great motivator. But as we discussed in this very thread, it was vital to show that Obsidian's greed was posing a danger to innocent people, otherwise he would be no more a villian than any of us. It was not Obsidian who wanted to 'blow things up', it was Mr. Lim. Since Obsidian was in the market of stealing secrets and favors for money, we used Mr. Lim's desire to instigate a war between Pakistan and India to show how Obsidian's greed was reckless and dangerous.
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
edited January 2008
I think that there are some excellent points put across by all of us here -and the controversy is more of an individual matter than how the we all think - there are no doubt things we could have done a little differently -but however don't let us criticize our own tale too much -we don't want to put other people off reading it! I myself look forward to the response from anyone who is not part of the writing team -they are the judges we wish to hear from -as they are not necessarily familiar with the tale already and will come to it from fresh angles. That said they will no doubt pick up on how formulaic the tale is - but remember it is that very formula that makes 007 a success -and the fact that we have reverted to type is not necessarily a bad thing!
Anyway I think this tale makes a great start to what is going to be a Bond -filled twelve months.
BTW are you guys happy with the bio bit at the end? I hope its alright.
The only time I can honestly recall a writing team ever being entirely satisfied with a James Bond collaboration novel was during the period that our first book,Never Say Dead,was written.Never Say Dead was a major accomplishment for AJB, because it was something the entire website actually had a stake in.Indeed,everyone was welcome to contribute to the story-either as a writer or by suggesting ideas.The level of excitement and enthusiasm was a joy to see.
One of the reasons the Literature Forum exists is because SiCo understood how much everybody appreciated this kind of storytelling.Prior to the 1st group novel, we had only talked about movies.How times change.
Looked at today Never Say Dead may seem a bit creaky in a few places.That aside,no one involved was thinking about writing for posterity.However,this novel still holds up today and is something AJB can be very proud of.:)
Hi guys, sorry I haven't been online lately. Been busy with University stuff and whatnot.
Cheers on the novel finally being posted to the site! {[] I just have one question: Am I mistaken, or was my final action bit deleted? I was disappointed to see it missing. If it was deleted for continuity issues (i.e., Magnus being used more than once, the mansion and garage being separate, etc.), I would have preferred to fix it than to have it deleted. As the final draft is, it seems to shift to the epilogue rather abruptly, IMO.
In any case, I think we all did a great job. Cheers, everyone. {[]
Hi guys, sorry I haven't been online lately. Been busy with University stuff and whatnot.
Cheers on the novel finally being posted to the site! {[] I just have one question: Am I mistaken, or was my final action bit deleted? I was disappointed to see it missing. If it was deleted for continuity issues (i.e., Magnus being used more than once, the mansion and garage being separate, etc.), I would have preferred to fix it than to have it deleted. As the final draft is, it seems to shift to the epilogue rather abruptly, IMO.
In any case, I think we all did a great job. Cheers, everyone. {[]
Hmmm. Admittedly, I have not read the final edit yet. Your additions at the end were exemplary. I'm surprised if they were not integrated into the ending.
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
edited January 2008
Hi sly -that is my fault -what with so much going on and the deadline I think I may have turned the wrong copy into the pdf. I'm not sure you know but my wife was in hospital on 23rd of December for an operation and I had my hands full -I don't want to make excuses but I do think if my mind hadn't been elsewhere I would have realised I cocked up. So I appologise to you young man. I will sometime soon see if I can edit the manuscript again and include that scene and pass it on to Si for him to swap -it may take a while though as I'm pretty busy at the moment -but once again I appologise.
Jason.
p.s.
When I've sorted it -you will be the first to know.
Hi sly -that is my fault -what with so much going on and the deadline I think I may have turned the wrong copy into the pdf. I'm not sure you know but my wife was in hospital on 23rd of December for an operation and I had my hands full -I don't want to make excuses but I do think if my mind hadn't been elsewhere I would have realised I cocked up. So I appologise to you young man. I will sometime soon see if I can edit the manuscript again and include that scene and pass it on to Si for him to swap -it may take a while though as I'm pretty busy at the moment -but once again I appologise.
Jason.
p.s.
When I've sorted it -you will be the first to know.
Can you also edit the text where Bond escapes from Seppo as the narrative doesn't scan.
Hi sly -that is my fault -what with so much going on and the deadline I think I may have turned the wrong copy into the pdf. I'm not sure you know but my wife was in hospital on 23rd of December for an operation and I had my hands full -I don't want to make excuses but I do think if my mind hadn't been elsewhere I would have realised I cocked up. So I appologise to you young man. I will sometime soon see if I can edit the manuscript again and include that scene and pass it on to Si for him to swap -it may take a while though as I'm pretty busy at the moment -but once again I appologise.
Jason.
p.s.
When I've sorted it -you will be the first to know.
No problem, SC1. I do remember you saying your wife was in hospital. I hope she's doing all right. I also hope this Christmas was a good one for you.
By the way, who recognizes my "new" avatar? (You'll have to have been here a while to understand).
I had this avatar a long time ago, shortly after I first joined the site in 2003. A lot of people really liked it back then and came to me to create avatars for them (that offer is still open, by the way).
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
Just an update This week I should have time to sort the manuscript out with the necessary revisions -I will then forward it on to Si. Sorry for the delay guys.
Sounds good, SC1. Thanks for all of your work in making it happen!
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
Ok -I've sent the new revised edition pdf to Si -so its just waiting on him to swap them over. If there is anything I haven't done or anything that anyone wants changing its too late now -this one is officially ended -so if there are still errors that glare out at anyone I apologise -I'm not a professional editor and have basically done my best.
I hope that when you do read it -you enjoy it and appreciate all the hard work put into it by all those involved.
Jason.
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
Just a note to let you all know that the revised edition is now the copy you will download from now on -si has swapped the pdf files over -so the download count has remained the same as before but any subsequent downloads from today are actually the revised edition.
Out of curiousity, what is the download count (it's not visible to me).
scaramanga1The English RivieraPosts: 845Chief of Staff
189 at the mo -and 149 for Lightning's Wake. I hadn't realised you couldn't see the download counts -I wonder if Si can make them public for everyone on the fan fic page?
Thanks! I can see the 'Lightning's Wake' count, but not the 'Obsidian Masquerade' total. I assuming SiCo has to activate the feature for the users individually so I wasn't too concerned about it.
Thanks for fixing this, Scaramanga. It's very much appreciated.
As for the download counter, I can't see it on OM's listing on the fan fiction index page, or on the PDF download page. Like Daren, I can see it next to my own 'Mystifying Eyes' on the fanfic index. Although OM's page seems to have some problems of its own--the publishing date shown is January 0, 2008. Is this a new date format??
Comments
All very valid points WG. I have read most of but not all of the Bond books as i finmd Fleming's style heavy going msot of the time. And I am very biased towards the cinematic Bond. I think the 2 different versions of Bond are the root of the problem. Perhaps a team should agree on which version will be used in a fanfic.
I think you are misapplying the actions of the villian here. It was decided early on that Obsidian's main drive was greed, which is a great motivator. But as we discussed in this very thread, it was vital to show that Obsidian's greed was posing a danger to innocent people, otherwise he would be no more a villian than any of us. It was not Obsidian who wanted to 'blow things up', it was Mr. Lim. Since Obsidian was in the market of stealing secrets and favors for money, we used Mr. Lim's desire to instigate a war between Pakistan and India to show how Obsidian's greed was reckless and dangerous.
Anyway I think this tale makes a great start to what is going to be a Bond -filled twelve months.
BTW are you guys happy with the bio bit at the end? I hope its alright.
Cheers DAWUSS{[]
The bios look great, BTW. We have quite the pool of talent on this novel IMO.
The only time I can honestly recall a writing team ever being entirely satisfied with a James Bond collaboration novel was during the period that our first book,Never Say Dead,was written.Never Say Dead was a major accomplishment for AJB, because it was something the entire website actually had a stake in.Indeed,everyone was welcome to contribute to the story-either as a writer or by suggesting ideas.The level of excitement and enthusiasm was a joy to see.
One of the reasons the Literature Forum exists is because SiCo understood how much everybody appreciated this kind of storytelling.Prior to the 1st group novel, we had only talked about movies.How times change.
Looked at today Never Say Dead may seem a bit creaky in a few places.That aside,no one involved was thinking about writing for posterity.However,this novel still holds up today and is something AJB can be very proud of.:)
Cheers on the novel finally being posted to the site! {[] I just have one question: Am I mistaken, or was my final action bit deleted? I was disappointed to see it missing. If it was deleted for continuity issues (i.e., Magnus being used more than once, the mansion and garage being separate, etc.), I would have preferred to fix it than to have it deleted. As the final draft is, it seems to shift to the epilogue rather abruptly, IMO.
In any case, I think we all did a great job. Cheers, everyone. {[]
Hmmm. Admittedly, I have not read the final edit yet. Your additions at the end were exemplary. I'm surprised if they were not integrated into the ending.
Jason.
p.s.
When I've sorted it -you will be the first to know.
Can you also edit the text where Bond escapes from Seppo as the narrative doesn't scan.
No problem, SC1. I do remember you saying your wife was in hospital. I hope she's doing all right. I also hope this Christmas was a good one for you.
By the way, who recognizes my "new" avatar? (You'll have to have been here a while to understand).
I hope that when you do read it -you enjoy it and appreciate all the hard work put into it by all those involved.
Jason.
As for the download counter, I can't see it on OM's listing on the fan fiction index page, or on the PDF download page. Like Daren, I can see it next to my own 'Mystifying Eyes' on the fanfic index. Although OM's page seems to have some problems of its own--the publishing date shown is January 0, 2008. Is this a new date format??