Bond - Turning Japanese

Nicko1234

I have seen the scenes in YOLT where Bond 'becomes Japanese' described as having been 'delightful' by some critics. Is this a widely held opinion?

To be honest I think that it's the dumbest moment in any Bond film of the 60s and seems remarkably outdated nowadays.

taity

It was out of date in the 60s too.

Loeffelholz

Nicko1234 wrote:

I have seen the scenes in YOLT where Bond 'becomes Japanese' described as having been 'delightful' by some critics. Is this a widely held opinion?

To be honest I think that it's the dumbest moment in any Bond film of the 60s and seems remarkably outdated nowadays.

Welcome to AJB, Nicko1234 {[]

You'll find a lot of company in this opinion here, I think

It's interesting that the YOLT film---which completely discards the lion's share of its literary counterpart, save for some character's names and the basic location (Japan)---should insist upon uncluding this particular element from the novel. In the book, it's arguably helpful to have Bond establish a cover near Shatterhand's castle as a local fisherman.* In the film it's (to say the least!) less necessary...

Then there are the practical problems with converting a 6'3", hairy Scotsman into a Japanese )

Still and all, YOLT still makes my list of Top Ten Bond films (because it has Connery, lethartic performance notwithstanding). Everyone has Bond film transgressions which he/she will forgive, and those he/she will not. For me, the 'Japanese Bond' falls into the former category: a tad embarrassing, perhaps, but a long way (IMRO) from what the next decade would offer up.

In addition, YOLT has the historical significance of being the very first truly OTT 'spectacle'-style offering in the franchise; it's still my favourite such film Eon have thus far produced.

* Leaving alone, naturally, the wild improbability of such a thing.

7289

It has always amused me that amoung the various makeup devices used to turn YOLT's Connery/Bond into an oriental was a Mr. Spock style toupee.

Evidently this replaced Connery's usual hairpiece.

Tee Hee

It's a shame The Vapors weren't around in 1967 to score that sequence. )

I personally am not bothered by Bond's ethnic transformation in YOLT, although I do have my doubts as to whether his disguise could successfully fool somebody or not.

However, I do enjoy the scene in which Bond's chest is being shaven and he leans up to tell the lovlies to "just dye the parts that show." )

Dan Same

I don't have a problem with Bond turning Japanese. It wasn't entirely convincing, but I think it was harmless and a bit of fun. It's like YOLT; that is, I don't think it's a great Bond film (it's being fifth on my list is due to Connery) but I think it is very fun.

Jarvio

Yeah, the whole Japanese thing doesn't really bother me. Sure, it's not a great idea for something in a Bond film, but better than going into outer space, or an invisible car. I think that YOLT is severely underrated btw.

John Drake

I can forgive practically any film that has ninjas in it. Bondo san, was pushing it a bit far though. Especially in the towering form of Connery. I don't think there are too many Scots around who would make convincing Orientals. With the possible exception of Partick Thistle striker Derek Young. (That'll mean nothing to most or possibly all of you. )

Barbel

John Drake wrote:

I don't think there are too many Scots around who would make convincing Orientals. With the possible exception of Partick Thistle striker Derek Young. (That'll mean nothing to most or possibly all of you. )

) No, not all. But- you mean Thistle have a striker?!

Barbel

7289 wrote:

It has always amused me that amoung the various makeup devices used to turn YOLT's Connery/Bond into an oriental was a Mr. Spock style toupee.

Evidently this replaced Connery's usual hairpiece.

Watch closely during the sequence in which Bond and Kissy climb up the volcano after diving off her boat. No toupee at all- then later he has his normal one again!

7289

Evidently the Ninja spirit gum was not up to MI6 standards!

Nicko1234

Dan Same wrote:

I don't have a problem with Bond turning Japanese. It wasn't entirely convincing, but I think it was harmless and a bit of fun. It's like YOLT; that is, I don't think it's a great Bond film (it's being fifth on my list is due to Connery) but I think it is very fun.

I agree that it was intended to be harmless fun but I wonder how people would feel if Bond had blacked himself up. It's a curious thing in the world that it's ok to treat Orientals in a way that people wouldn't treat black people. For example, reruns of Takeshi's Castle are shown all around the world as the commentators essentially say, 'let's laugh at the crazy Japanese'. How would people feel if they made a show saying, 'let's laugh at the crazy Africans'?

John Drake

Nicko1234 wrote:

For example, reruns of Takeshi's Castle are shown all around the world as the commentators essentially say, 'let's laugh at the crazy Japanese'. How would people feel if they made a show saying, 'let's laugh at the crazy Africans'?

Takeshi's Castle was a Japanese show, made for Japanese audiences. It's meant to be funny. Unfortunately the international version is heavily edited, removing the Japanese sections between the games completely and adding a patronising voice-over from (in the UK at least) Craig Charles. But it's still a Japanese show. Made by them for them. And it's nuts. I don't see how laughing at a funny Japanese TV show is somehow racist. ?:)

Nicko1234

I'm not saying it's necessarily racist and i realise that we're probably getting away from the topic here. But that show hasn't been broadcast in Japan for decades and yet it is the only Japanese show to be put on here apart from Sushi TV. When people think about Japanese TV here all they can know about are these shows and Endurance. I know for a fact that many Japanese people aren't happy about it and they stopped making those shows in Japan because they were seen as inappropriate.

Now would British people be happy if the only British show to be broadcast in other countries was the Black and White Minstrel Show?

John Drake

Nicko1234 wrote:

Now would British people be happy if the only British show to be broadcast in other countries was the Black and White Minstrel Show?

But that was a show where the majority were making fun of an ethnic minority. It was reprehensible and utterly racist. You cannot compare it to Takeshi's Castle, which is essentially a Japanese version of It's a Knockout with more pain.

And Japanese and Oriental culture is no longer marginalised. Their film industries are producing some of the best and most interesting work in the world right now. Johnny To's Exiled opens in cinema this week. There's plenty of other great movies from that part of the world available in local DVD stores. Neo magazine covers all that is interesting in Eastern culture. Manga is not quite mainstream, but its not far off it. Anime shows like Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex and Cowboy Bebop (IMO one the greatest pieces of storytelling ever made) are highly praised and valued by many. I'm enjoying debating with you, Nicko, but I'm afraid we seem to disagree about so many things. )

Nicko1234

That's ok. I disagree with myself a lot of the time too.:)

I agree that yes, The Minstrel Show was different and a bad example. But if It's a Knockout was the only British TV show broadcast overseas and other countries added a new mocking commentary then I doubt anybody would be happy.

It only brought it to my attention recently when I heard a couple of people who are studying Japanes in Britain say, 'oh, Japanese TV is so crazy'. Whereas in reality it's the same as British TV.

Yes, Oriental culture is around but if you think about it it is only really there in very rigid groupings.

Crazy TV shows, anime, horror movies, samurai or geisha things and...that's it really.

In was talking to a friend recently and told her that I had a Japanese friend at college. Her questions was, 'Is she a Geisha?'. Now to me that implies that British people are still pretty ignorant about that part of the world.

On the other had it may well be that my friend is a gibbering simpleton. )

John Drake

Nicko1234 wrote:

It only brought it to my attention recently when I heard a couple of people who are studying Japanes in Britain say, 'oh, Japanese TV is so crazy'. Whereas in reality it's the same as British TV.

I think it would be very easy to make British TV look crazy, just by editing together a few selected highlights from certain TV shows. Strictly Come Dancing perhaps? There's plenty other garbage on UK screens. I would love to see a channel dedicated to foriegn television. I mean that showed the best of what's available, from any country.

But back on topic, I think there's a real difference between what they did with YOLT, and this clip from the otherwise wonderful Breakfast at Tiffany's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-unOqTPYk

In YOLT, Connery made up to look Japanese is an absurdity in an absurd movie. I think it's deliberately daft. Mickey Rooney in BAT's is just .... beyond belief. It's ridiculously offensive.

s96024

Takeshi's castle is in a completely different league to I'ts a knockout in terms of stupidity. Although I find It's a knockout total garbage but Takeshi's is great. Can you seriously see that show being allowed to be made in the UK?

Nicko1234

John Drake wrote:

Nicko1234 wrote:

It only brought it to my attention recently when I heard a couple of people who are studying Japanes in Britain say, 'oh, Japanese TV is so crazy'. Whereas in reality it's the same as British TV.

I think it would be very easy to make British TV look crazy, just by editing together a few selected highlights from certain TV shows. Strictly Come Dancing perhaps? There's plenty other garbage on UK screens. I would love to see a channel dedicated to foriegn television. I mean that showed the best of what's available, from any country.

But back on topic, I think there's a real difference between what they did with YOLT, and this clip from the otherwise wonderful Breakfast at Tiffany's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__-unOqTPYk

In YOLT, Connery made up to look Japanese is an absurdity in an absurd movie. I think it's deliberately daft. Mickey Rooney in BAT's is just .... beyond belief. It's ridiculously offensive.

Thanks for the link. The interesting thing is that that film is still considered to be a classic. I've very rarely heard people seriously criticise it or that scene particularly. If somebody had been blacked up then it clearly would be viewed differently now.

YOLT probably was only meant to absurd and I don't think they had racist or offensive attentions at all. It's just that when I read in the 'Girls, Guns and Martinis' book that they thoght that scene was delightful it surprised me.

Mind you, quite a lot of the opinions expressed in that book surprised me.

The Sly Fox

Nicko1234 wrote:

I'm not saying it's necessarily racist and i realise that we're probably getting away from the topic here. But that show hasn't been broadcast in Japan for decades and yet it is the only Japanese show to be put on here apart from Sushi TV. When people think about Japanese TV here all they can know about are these shows and Endurance. I know for a fact that many Japanese people aren't happy about it and they stopped making those shows in Japan because they were seen as inappropriate.

Sushi TV annoys me. Most every clip they show is horribly outdated and they're all accompanied by a condescending, "ha-ha, look at this!" narrative. Perhaps it wouldn't annoy me so much if Japan wasn't made out to be a country that consists merely of Godzilla, sushi and insane people...

Speaking of which, what really bugs me is the racism on TV. Take South Park for example. If anyone saw this particular episode, it showed the angel Gabriel saying in response to the possibility of a Japanese kid saving Heaven from destruction: "Japanese people don't have souls!"

Somehow, that earned them an Emmy...

7289

Nicko1234 wrote:

was talking to a friend recently and told her that I had a Japanese friend at college. Her questions was, 'Is she a Geisha?'. Now to me that implies that British people are still pretty ignorant about that part of the world.:))

What happened??? Not so long ago you Brits owned the whole world !!!!

As for racism, it's part of human DNA. Only when people finally get their acts together, and develope thier own unshakable pride in themselves and their families will "racist" names and jokes be rendered meaningless.

I still think the idea of putting a toupee over a toupee is a hoot!!!

Monique

Getting back to Connery, it might not have been so bad if they actually changed his look! As it was it was just Connery with a bad black wig. He didn't look remotely Japanese! I think that part of the movie is almost comical! Mainly because they had a film make up crew that could have done so much more to make it convincing.

John Drake

Barbel wrote:

John Drake wrote:

I don't think there are too many Scots around who would make convincing Orientals. With the possible exception of Partick Thistle striker Derek Young. (That'll mean nothing to most or possibly all of you. )

) No, not all. But- you mean Thistle have a striker?!

Not any more. Derek Young has returned to the flock and is now a sheep again. (Once again, that will mean nothing to most or nearly all of you, except possibly Barbel ) )

dr. evan-gelist

Its funny how Bond learns how to be Japanese in YOLT, but he can't use the Japanese keyboard in TND

mrbond

The villain's lair shoul have been hidden in the mountains and caves instead of the OTT volcanoe!!
Do you like the pic? I can imagine Bond disguised as a fisher man with the oar really containing a secret camera!

http://img2.allposters.com/images/PTGPOD/539985-FB.jpgo

thesecretagent

dr. evan-gelist wrote:

Its funny how Bond learns how to be Japanese in YOLT, but he can't use the Japanese keyboard in TND

Ah! But that was Mandarin Chinese...

Rick Roberts

thesecretagent wrote:

dr. evan-gelist wrote:

Its funny how Bond learns how to be Japanese in YOLT, but he can't use the Japanese keyboard in TND

Ah! But that was Mandarin Chinese...

Actually Bond said he studied all oriental lanuages in YOLT.


Anyway getting back on topic I found the whole "turning Japanese" forced and useless to the plot of this film, in the novel it made alot more sense.

chrisno1

without going into too much depth:
The scene in YOLT is a comic interlude (not a very funny one either) but it is one of the few attempts by Roald Dahl to put elements of the novel into the film (he did pretty much bin one of Fleming's best pieces of work in favour of the most fantastic adventure until MR)
Where the film makers got it wrong (as they often do / did in 007 folklore) is ignoring the timeline.
If Bond had been disguised (all be it badly) as a Japanese fisherman in YOLT.... could it be that Blofeld doesn't recognise him in OHMSS ?
Curiously earlier in YOLT, Blofelds only means of id-ing Bond is by his Walther PPK, but then he recognises him immediately in his control centre.
Also YOLT seems to be "written" out of folklore in the same way DAF is (notice Blofeld has a neck brace in the end of OHMSS and the start of FYEO
OHMSS can also follow straight on from TB
Timelines - bugger me !

blofeld#1

I've seen the film . Well I don't think there is much point to turning Japanese. Connery just looks weird