While AVTAK borrows elements from GF, the more blatant ripoff is TWINE. Both Goldfinger and Elektra are in charge of corporations that go about cornering their markets by the use of nuclear weapons. AVTAK came up with a new way to corner the market, and that was creating an earthquake beneath the San Andreas fault.
I think that AVTAK was more of a rip-off than TWINE. AVTAK and GF both involved a villain looking to get rich by cornering his market, the villain in both films was killed by falling down from a high distance, both GF and AVTAK involved henchwomen who switched sides, both films featured henchpeople who were extremely strong, both films involved the villain gathering together gangsters before killing them all save for one who was killed individually and Bond in both films was asked/assigned to investigate cheating of some kind.
(Plus, on a side note, Zorin was a subject of Nazi human experimentation while Gert Frobe was a member of the Nazi Party, although he did rescue Jews. )
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Following a "formula" that works doesn't seem all that daft, after all in the world of Hollywood that is straight thinking. That's why so many Bonds are recast remakes. As time goes by you can only stuff so many big red explosions and car gadgets into a film before you reach the apex of stupidity with an "invisable" car and the "ice palace". Then you have a train wreak and have to start all over....
Outside of that, the most glaring self sabotage is in OHMSS, with the use of images from the previous flicks in the credits and use of old props and music when Bond cleans out his desk. All this merely reminded the viewers of the "real" Bond ...SC.
If as reported GL "quit" before the filming ended, then the voice over is prehaps a more deliberate decision to "dis" GL, than unexplainable stupidity.
Outside of that, the most glaring self sabotage is in OHMSS, with the use of images from the previous flicks in the credits and use of old props and music when Bond cleans out his desk. All this merely reminded the viewers of the "real" Bond ...SC.
Add to that the 'that never happened to the other fellow' line.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Add to that the 'that never happened to the other fellow' line.
I kinda like that line, its something of a little ice breaker for the new guy. Admittedly it loses something by having seen four other actors have a first movie.
Daftest decision?Turning movies about an executioner into comedies during the 1970s and early 1980s.There's nothing funnier than a cold-blooded killer...
Add to that the 'that never happened to the other fellow' line.
I kinda like that line, its something of a little ice breaker for the new guy. Admittedly it loses something by having seen four other actors have a first movie.
The reason I don't love that line is that I find it's too self-aware. I am watching a film, but I don't want the filmmakers to remind me that I am doing so. I much prefer the illusion of watching something that presents itself as reality (albeit a different kind of reality.)
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I recall that when I first saw OHMSS, the "other fella" line was intrusive.
After a couple of million viewings I have become used to it, and it doesn't bother me. Still, the credits with all the pre-Lazenby pictures still annoy.
It's more intrusive the way Lazenby suddenly turns to look at the camera and then cockily starts to move off as the theme begins. As bad as his cocky sounding intro when we first see him. He seems way too pleased with himself.
Daft decisions? Basing the avenge plot of LTK around Leiter, never very successfully portrayed in the series. We don't really care about Leiter much, it's not like he's Danny Glover's Murtaph.
I always felt the producers deliberately mis-cast or sidetracked the Leiter charecter because they were afraid he might eclipse Bond, especially in the States where an American super spy could prove very popular.
I always thought Van Nutter looked the most like the literary Leiter, and Jack Lord was the best of the actors. Wright was good in CR'06, but had only one decent line "...and hold the fruit."
Hope Wright comes back in Bond 22, and that he is given a more pivotal role. Prehaps it was "daft" of EON not kill kill old Felix in LTK?
I'm gonna make a list, trying to mention as many of the films as possible...
DN - The Jamaican music. Sorry, I just didn't dig it.
FRWL - The underuse of Kronsteen, who I thought, could have been a great villain if developed more.
GF - Casting of Leiter. One of the worst Leiter's ever IMO.
TB - That awful editing. Every time the scene changes by it scrolling accross, it makes me cringe.
YOLT - The choice of Bond girls. None of them stood out at all, completely unmemorable.
OHMSS - Blofeld not recognising Bond. It makes no sense whatsoever in terms of continuity.
DAF - Making Blofeld have hair! ) Also, not bringing back Lazenby as Bond. As much as I love Connery, Lazenby should have done this one, as I feel that by doing only one film, did not give him a chance to develop his portrayal as Bond.
LALD - Kanaga inflating. Was a bit silly.
TMWTGG - Mary Goodnight as the main girl. Scaramanga's missus would have been a better candidate. Also, that stupid slide whistle for the stunt where the car goes over the ramp and flips round. Great stunt just ruined.
TSWLM - The whole plot to be honest. It was silly. Just like Moonraker, but underwater rather than space.
MR - The plot, ridiculous. Using space as an idea in general. Bringing Jaws back. Making Jaws fall in love (and with a complete freak at that). lol... Stupid romantic music in Jaws scenes. The PTS, which I just found ridiculous... I mean, Jaws falls from a plane, and survives...
FYEO - Not developing Locque enough as a character. A potentially brilliant character, who, in my opinion, was killed off too early. Oh, and Bibi, one of the most annoying characters I've ever had to put up with.
OP - 'Fill her up please' - so corny that it's gruesome. Orlov was a bit of a coward in my opinion... should have been tougher.
AVTAK - 'What a view'...'to a kill'. Also, Beach boys music in PTS - See, not even AVTAK is perfect!
TLD - Kara Milovy. And the stupidly rubbish 'villains'.
LTK - Felix seeming overly happy at the end of the film, even though he's lost his wife, and his leg to a shark. And the dialogue - '5,000 k is one hell a chunk of doh' or however it went...
GE - The underuse of Ourumov. I think he could have been much more memorable if developed more.
TND - The plot was downright stupid. Elliot Carver - Jonathan Pryce, even though a good actor, just did not fit the part in my opinion. Same for Wai Linn's actress. Oh, and the underuse of Dr Kauffman, who was highly entertaining to say the least.
TWINE - Goldie. What the hell... If Goldie can play a Bond villain, then so can I. Also, Denise Richards was not great, and Robert Caryle, although a great actor, should have worked on his accent a bit more, as I found it unconvincing.
DAD - Dear god, all of it! lol... Well, for a start, the CGI - I want real stunts... not some computerised crap! Secondly, the stupid slow-motion parts of action scenes - completely ruined them. Thirdly, Halle Berry - not a bad actor by all means, but Bond girl? No thanks! Fourthly, the plot - absolutely uninspired. Fifthly, the script - 'Still the bad guys huh?' 'Yo momma'. Dear god, get this crap off my TV screen. Oh, and finally, yes you guessed it, the invisible car.
CR - The reboot! It annoys me, as it makes no sense in continuity with the other Bond films. I know that it's not supposed to. But it annoys me. It's as if it's trying to say that the other 20 Bond films don't matter.
Wahey, found something wrong with every Bond film!
Jarvio is right, AVTAK does have imperfections believe it or not. Although as a daft decision to AVTAK, I'd list underuse of Alison Doody and the embarassing warehouse fight!
FRWL - The underuse of Kronsteen, who I thought, could have been a great villain if developed more.
He was great, but I don't know what else they could have done with him.
BTW, to TLD and LTK, I would add the casting of Dalton.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
With PB having been yanked out from under the noses of EON by the greedy producers of "Remington Steele" who else could the producers have chosen who was capable of playing oo7. By then John Gavin was Ambassador to Mexico.
Dalton was a good, serious Bond. I watched TLD the other day, and must admit he falls a little flat in that one. He looks good, but the whole film had a real consistancy problem, it really shows that it was written for RM (too much comedy and OTT acting).
Using the left over RM script, didn't work. LTK is the better Dalton film. Eon should have put themselves ahead of the game and done a real reboot with Dalton.
Here's a daft decision: Not placing the otherwise excellent CR'06 back in 1951! Now that would have been something!
With PB having been yanked out from under the noses of EON by the greedy producers of "Remington Steele" who else could the producers have chosen who was capable of playing oo7.
What about Sam Neil? I think he could have been a terrific Bond.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
With PB having been yanked out from under the noses of EON by the greedy producers of "Remington Steele" who else could the producers have chosen who was capable of playing oo7.
What about Sam Neil? I think he could have been a terrific Bond.
Roger that. Sam Neill would have made a fine Bond. But for some reason I think he would have been a better fit in Bond films that toed the Fleming line rather than the more fanciful ones.
I read somewhere that while Wilson, Glen & co were all pleased with Sam Neill, Cubby was the one who wasn't convinced (and he was the man who had the final say).
Neill did the terrific series "Reilly, Ace of Spies!" and on one of the Ultimate DVD's is his oo7 screen test.
I think they did miss the boat with Sam, but agree that he - like TD would be more suitable for the "serious" Bond. I'll bet "Cubby" liked PB for the humor in "Remington Steele" since PB had yet to display any great range of acting skill.
Brosnan was the perfect Moore replacement! Dalton was jus filling shoes for Pierce - and alot like Lazenby was one film short of greatness!!!
Not sure how "daft" any of that is? Sounds more like a plot to me!
The Dalton Bond was Flemings Bond. He was a sleek burn out case with a touch of sardonic wit only found in the novels. Pierce Brosnan was a limited actor who could do comedy and had got very far on his looks.
Both Daltons films wipe the floor with anything between 1995 and 2002. His Bond was simply mindblowing and him in TLD is my favourite Bond of all time...
Sorry, I was unclear ... I should have stated that was I speaking from the "Producers Point of View", I think they never stopped lusting after PB, and were happy that TD declined Goldeneye.
As to which actor (Dalton or Brosnan) I personally prefer as oo7 - It is Dalton by Leaps and Bounds! At the risk of having the world fall upon me I will say that I consider PB and RM to be "One Note Johnnies", to me all they seemed interested in was the paycheck - no commitment to Fleming's Charecter at all!
The daftest decision EVER by the filmakers was allowing Lee Tamahori anywhere near Die Another Day...
Plus most of the Brosnan castings - Jonathan Pryce, Halle Berry, Robert Carlyle, Toby Stephens, Denise Richards bought nothing to the roles except "Star names" and were godawful in their respective roles...
I strongly agree and its the reason why the only Brosnan movie I like is GE. The rest were ughh I don't even want to go there...
I agree with actonsteve, I think had Dalton continued the quality of the scripts would have put him off. Prehaps he had a premonition, and that added to his pulling the plug!
I agree. The prospect of Tim in the dreck produced between 1995 and 2002 is unthinkable.
Shudder.
I would make a comment about how the real dreck were the two Dalton films, no thanks to Dalton himself, but DAD is on TV tonight (I'm not watching it ) and so I'll just say that IMO the Brosnan films were only 25% dreck.
You're right though actonsteve, the prospect of Tim as Bond between 1995 and 2002 is indeed unthinkable.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Since the Dalton bashing from Dan Same and JFF is akin to a broken record at times, I'll reiterate by stating that;
True, although to be fair, there seems lately to be only so much one can talk about on this site. When the next Bond film is released, those who are passionately anti/pro-Dalton will find something else to argue about.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Comments
(Plus, on a side note, Zorin was a subject of Nazi human experimentation while Gert Frobe was a member of the Nazi Party, although he did rescue Jews.
Following a "formula" that works doesn't seem all that daft, after all in the world of Hollywood that is straight thinking. That's why so many Bonds are recast remakes. As time goes by you can only stuff so many big red explosions and car gadgets into a film before you reach the apex of stupidity with an "invisable" car and the "ice palace". Then you have a train wreak and have to start all over....
Outside of that, the most glaring self sabotage is in OHMSS, with the use of images from the previous flicks in the credits and use of old props and music when Bond cleans out his desk. All this merely reminded the viewers of the "real" Bond ...SC.
If as reported GL "quit" before the filming ended, then the voice over is prehaps a more deliberate decision to "dis" GL, than unexplainable stupidity.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
I kinda like that line, its something of a little ice breaker for the new guy. Admittedly it loses something by having seen four other actors have a first movie.
After a couple of million viewings I have become used to it, and it doesn't bother me. Still, the credits with all the pre-Lazenby pictures still annoy.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Daft decisions? Basing the avenge plot of LTK around Leiter, never very successfully portrayed in the series. We don't really care about Leiter much, it's not like he's Danny Glover's Murtaph.
Roger Moore 1927-2017
I always felt the producers deliberately mis-cast or sidetracked the Leiter charecter because they were afraid he might eclipse Bond, especially in the States where an American super spy could prove very popular.
I always thought Van Nutter looked the most like the literary Leiter, and Jack Lord was the best of the actors. Wright was good in CR'06, but had only one decent line "...and hold the fruit."
Hope Wright comes back in Bond 22, and that he is given a more pivotal role. Prehaps it was "daft" of EON not kill kill old Felix in LTK?
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
DN - The Jamaican music. Sorry, I just didn't dig it.
FRWL - The underuse of Kronsteen, who I thought, could have been a great villain if developed more.
GF - Casting of Leiter. One of the worst Leiter's ever IMO.
TB - That awful editing. Every time the scene changes by it scrolling accross, it makes me cringe.
YOLT - The choice of Bond girls. None of them stood out at all, completely unmemorable.
OHMSS - Blofeld not recognising Bond. It makes no sense whatsoever in terms of continuity.
DAF - Making Blofeld have hair!
LALD - Kanaga inflating. Was a bit silly.
TMWTGG - Mary Goodnight as the main girl. Scaramanga's missus would have been a better candidate. Also, that stupid slide whistle for the stunt where the car goes over the ramp and flips round. Great stunt just ruined.
TSWLM - The whole plot to be honest. It was silly. Just like Moonraker, but underwater rather than space.
MR - The plot, ridiculous. Using space as an idea in general. Bringing Jaws back. Making Jaws fall in love (and with a complete freak at that). lol... Stupid romantic music in Jaws scenes. The PTS, which I just found ridiculous... I mean, Jaws falls from a plane, and survives...
FYEO - Not developing Locque enough as a character. A potentially brilliant character, who, in my opinion, was killed off too early. Oh, and Bibi, one of the most annoying characters I've ever had to put up with.
OP - 'Fill her up please' - so corny that it's gruesome. Orlov was a bit of a coward in my opinion... should have been tougher.
AVTAK - 'What a view'...'to a kill'. Also, Beach boys music in PTS - See, not even AVTAK is perfect!
TLD - Kara Milovy. And the stupidly rubbish 'villains'.
LTK - Felix seeming overly happy at the end of the film, even though he's lost his wife, and his leg to a shark. And the dialogue - '5,000 k is one hell a chunk of doh' or however it went...
GE - The underuse of Ourumov. I think he could have been much more memorable if developed more.
TND - The plot was downright stupid. Elliot Carver - Jonathan Pryce, even though a good actor, just did not fit the part in my opinion. Same for Wai Linn's actress. Oh, and the underuse of Dr Kauffman, who was highly entertaining to say the least.
TWINE - Goldie. What the hell... If Goldie can play a Bond villain, then so can I. Also, Denise Richards was not great, and Robert Caryle, although a great actor, should have worked on his accent a bit more, as I found it unconvincing.
DAD - Dear god, all of it! lol... Well, for a start, the CGI - I want real stunts... not some computerised crap! Secondly, the stupid slow-motion parts of action scenes - completely ruined them. Thirdly, Halle Berry - not a bad actor by all means, but Bond girl? No thanks! Fourthly, the plot - absolutely uninspired. Fifthly, the script - 'Still the bad guys huh?' 'Yo momma'. Dear god, get this crap off my TV screen. Oh, and finally, yes you guessed it, the invisible car.
CR - The reboot! It annoys me, as it makes no sense in continuity with the other Bond films. I know that it's not supposed to. But it annoys me. It's as if it's trying to say that the other 20 Bond films don't matter.
Wahey, found something wrong with every Bond film!
1 - Moore, 2 - Dalton, 3 - Craig, 4 - Connery, 5 - Brosnan, 6 - Lazenby
BTW, to TLD and LTK, I would add the casting of Dalton.
Dalton was a good, serious Bond. I watched TLD the other day, and must admit he falls a little flat in that one. He looks good, but the whole film had a real consistancy problem, it really shows that it was written for RM (too much comedy and OTT acting).
Using the left over RM script, didn't work. LTK is the better Dalton film. Eon should have put themselves ahead of the game and done a real reboot with Dalton.
Here's a daft decision: Not placing the otherwise excellent CR'06 back in 1951! Now that would have been something!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Roger that. Sam Neill would have made a fine Bond. But for some reason I think he would have been a better fit in Bond films that toed the Fleming line rather than the more fanciful ones.
I think they did miss the boat with Sam, but agree that he - like TD would be more suitable for the "serious" Bond. I'll bet "Cubby" liked PB for the humor in "Remington Steele" since PB had yet to display any great range of acting skill.
Brosnan was the perfect Moore replacement! Dalton was jus filling shoes for Pierce - and alot like Lazenby was one film short of greatness!!!
Not sure how "daft" any of that is? Sounds more like a plot to me!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
Cough! Splutter! Choke!
You are joking?
The Dalton Bond was Flemings Bond. He was a sleek burn out case with a touch of sardonic wit only found in the novels. Pierce Brosnan was a limited actor who could do comedy and had got very far on his looks.
Both Daltons films wipe the floor with anything between 1995 and 2002. His Bond was simply mindblowing and him in TLD is my favourite Bond of all time...
Sorry, I was unclear ... I should have stated that was I speaking from the "Producers Point of View", I think they never stopped lusting after PB, and were happy that TD declined Goldeneye.
As to which actor (Dalton or Brosnan) I personally prefer as oo7 - It is Dalton by Leaps and Bounds! At the risk of having the world fall upon me I will say that I consider PB and RM to be "One Note Johnnies", to me all they seemed interested in was the paycheck - no commitment to Fleming's Charecter at all!
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
I strongly agree and its the reason why the only Brosnan movie I like is GE. The rest were ughh I don't even want to go there...
They weren't the only ones...
I agree. The prospect of Tim in the dreck produced between 1995 and 2002 is unthinkable.
Shudder.
Bond’s Beretta
The Handguns of Ian Fleming's James Bond
You're right though actonsteve, the prospect of Tim as Bond between 1995 and 2002 is indeed unthinkable.
Timothy Dalton ruled!
Thank you
True, although to be fair, there seems lately to be only so much one can talk about on this site.
But Dan, given that Pierce made twice as many Bond films as Dalton, shouldn't we double the percentage of dreck as well. So that's 50% then.