Which Bond film is the hardest to understand?

Jarvio

Which Bond film, in your view, has the most difficult plot to understand?

For me, three spring to mind, TWINE, TLD, and OP.

TLD and OP a bit less now though, but TWINE still confuses me a bit these days.

TLD is confusing because you have the fake defection, the arms dealing, the diamond purchasing, the opium purchasing... I admit, at first view it was hard to piece together. Improves after constant viewing though.

What about everyone else?

Dan Same

For me, it has traditionally been DAF. To be honest, I still can't fully understand it. (Although, I think it is probably due to DAF having a less than superb screenplay. )

Jarvio

Not seen DAF for ages, I remember it having a simple plot with confusing bits in it though.

TWINE though, spins me out man, lol

Dan Same

Jarvio wrote:

Not seen DAF for ages, I remember it having a simple plot with confusing bits in it though.

The basic plot is simple, but alot of the details just don't make any sense.

Now that I'm older, I don't have trouble following any of the plots, however there are details in some of the films that IMO are extremely illogical.

JennyFlexFan

The ending of CR 06 really threw me for a loop. OP is a bit confusing, still entertaining, but confusing. Some parts in LTK had me lost (or maybe that was me trying to get away from it ). But I agree for the most part that TLD is confusing with all those little subplots! I'd nominate it for most confusing Bond movie in a heartbeat.

Jamesbondjr

My understanding of OP is hazy but the thing that confuses me the most about any of the films is 'delicatessen in stainless steel'!

rennervision

Definitely TWINE. I welcome anyone's explanation of what is going on in the PTS. Fortunately I've read the novelization of the movie which helped fill in the plot.

Harry Palmer

All the ones you've mentioned strike me as pretty straightforward, to be honest.

TWINE is GF with black gold. Disable all oil-distribution pipelines except for the ones owned by Elektra King thereby gaining monopoly.

TLD is a standard fake-defection spy story intended to
a). re-ignite cold-war and boost up arms sales
b). get Pushkin out of the way and fill in the power vacuum

Sweepy the Cat

Defenitly OP

SpectreBlofeld

I think Octopussy takes the cake by far.

This is a post from someone on another forum struggling to explain the plot:
===========
0rlov is fleecing the Kremlin by stealing its treasures and replacing them with fakes. The money he makes out of this is funding his plan to nuke West Germany, as well as maintain Octopussy and Kamal's gangs* and generally high standards of living. When 009 steals the fake egg though, he has to recover the original egg to return to the treasury. Otherwise someone will notice it's missing and the game's up.

The FAKE egg was recovered from 009's body in Berlin. The REAL egg is being auctioned at Sotheby's. Kamal is told by Orlov to recover the real one so Orlov can return it to the treasury so nobody gets wise to him fleecing it. At the auction, Bond switches the eggs and passes Kamal the fake, and pockets the real one.

The real one is then later fitted with a homing device and microphone.

In India, at the Backgammon game Bond reveals the real one to Kamal, who later sends Magda to recover it and Gobinda to capture Bond. Now when Orlov arrives in India, he mistakes the real egg for the fake, and smashes it.

As for the fake egg, who knows? Most likely it was sent by Kamal direct to the Kremlin art depository to cover the theft of the original. However as we know, the curator can spot a fake a mile off (he's the guy who later smashes the fake Romanov star), so maybe it was the fake egg that (offscreen) put Gogol onto Orlov's scheming?

*It's interesting to note that there seem to be two seperate operations going on, with Gobinda, the Twins, the jewellers (who Gobinda later kills) and the various guards loyal to Kamal and aware of the bomb plot, while Magda and the women follow Octopussy and know nothing. To the point that the guards outside the Monsoon palace (before the final fight) don't even recognise Madga as the leader of the girls by the gate, even though she's a regular visitor to the palace and even has her own room there. If so, why in Germany does it appear that both of them are equal partners in the smuggling operation, and that Octopussy entrusts safety of the jewel cache to the Twins?

============

See what I mean? Now given that tenuous 'explanation' above, answer me this: If they're trying to raise money by selling the stolen loot at Soothesby's, then why the heck is Kamal Khan buying it back!? He's on Orlov's team! And come on, surely SOMEONE in Russian government would hear about the auctions and know the loot has been stolen!

Oh, and if he was planning on returning the fake egg to the Russian treasury to replace the stolen one, why is it such a big deal that Bond switched the eggs? Why to Orlov and Kamal want the real one back? Can't they just take the fake back to the treasury like the (preportedly) originally planned?

Octopussy is the only Bond movie that turns my brain into a pretzel every time I try to watch it.

Tee Hee

SpectreBlofeld,

My friend Darenhat and I spent some time explaining OP's plot not too long ago.

Please consult this thread; you may find it useful.

SpectreBlofeld

A four-page thread to explore the egg conundrum? I rest my case!

Tee Hee

SpectreBlofeld wrote:

A four-page thread to explore the egg conundrum? I rest my case!

Nevertheless, it has been solved.

SpectreBlofeld

Fun thread, with pretty good explanations (of an overly complicated plot)... but I still don't buy the idea that they'd be auctioning the stolen Russian loot in one of the world's best known auction houses.

Honey Rider

SpectreBlofeld wrote:

A four-page thread to explore the egg conundrum? I rest my case!

) That doesn't surprise me. I think that OP is impossible to understand. However, aslthough I can't understand it, I nonetheless still love it.

CasinoChris75

I like TLD, but I found the connection between arms dealing and raw opium to be confusing.

chrisno1

I would go with OP, there was just too much going on; but in addition DAF, TLD, LTK, GE, TWINE, DAD all hold my brain to ransome. This is usually because there are too many villians with too many fingers in each others pies for me to follow. I like simple plots with a twist (FRWL, TB, YOLT, TSWLM, FYEO) i dont have to think too much and it usually allows for good character development because the writers dont ahve to constantly explain whts going on and who's doing what.

Strangeways

When I was a boy growing up in the 1970s and 1980s watching the 007 movies I didn't understand them at all. It was only after GE came out and I started re-watching them having all the videos that I fully understood them.

Even though I didn't really understand them, I just adored them; I mean what's not to like.....fast cars, exotic locations, champagne lifestyle, 5* hotels, gadgets etc etc. I just knew I loved Bond!

As for the most confusing of all I do think that I agree with most of what's been said here, DAF, OP, etc. I do hope that QoS is simple, yet effective so that many new Bond fans get to understand the fil.

Tobias

Licence to kill was hard to follow it followed the late 80's film like Lethal Weapon and Miami vice no offence to people who like those film i do but Ltk was too hard to understand

Lazenby880

Although enjoyable, the full plot of The World Is Not Enough is rather confusing. As CBn member 'ACE' wrote on this page:

Neil Purvis and Robert Wade created a Bond adventure as overwrought as a Shakespearean tragedy. The history, motivation and interaction between the principal characters underpin the entire story. Firstly, then, we need to understand the rather warped Elektra King.

1) She believes her father, Sir Robert King, conned her mother’s family out of their oil wealth.
2) She was a wild, wayward, spoiled, sexually mature young lady who always had power over men (her father, her lovers, her kidnapper)
3) When kidnapped by Viktor Zokas aka Renard and held for 5,000,000 ransom, it was assumed that Elektra suffered Stockholm syndrome. She didn’t. It turns out Renard is following her to the point of sacrifice. She knew exactly what she was doing. She turned him and planned her elaborate revenge and power plan from this point. Hence, it was the opposite of Stockholm syndrome; Helsinki syndrome, perhaps?
4) The delayed ransom further stokes Elektra’s resentment of her father (see 1. above). However, Sir Robert delay is on his friend, Head of MI6’s, advice. M wanted time to target Renard. As it happens, the ransom is not paid as Elektra “escapes”. However, MI6’s complicity in delaying the ransom is factored in when Elekra pointedly uses exactly the same booby-trapped ransom amount of cash as bait (a refund for payment for a dodgy stolen oil-pipeline threat report) to lure MI6 into facilitating the death of her father.
5) This last action allows Elektra to control King Industries, cause her father’s death at the hand of MI6 and set her wider ambitions in motion.

Strictly Plutonic

I get very confused by the caper of Elektra’s wider ambitions. If you do too, get this in your head first:

1 The competing pipelines taking oil from the Caspian Sea go to the NORTH.
2 That oil is put into tankers.
3 The tankers go across the Black Sea to Istanbul.
Now,

4 Weapons grade plutonium is stolen in the decommissioning site in Kazakhstan.
5 An attempt to sabotage the King pipeline is staged with HALF the stolen plutonium (not enough to go nuclear in a conventional bomb so no lasting damage) in order to:
i) throw the intelligence services off the scent of the real threat; and
ii) make the authorities think ALL the plutonium (see 4 above) was used in the bombing of the pipeline.
Meanwhile,

6 An aging Russian nuclear submarine is purchased on the black market.
7 Said purchase facilitated by Zukovsky in a rigged card game in the Casino L’Or Noir.
Finale.

8 Said nuclear submarine is secretly sent to Istanbul.
9 The aging nuclear reactor is primed with the other half of the stolen plutonium (see 4 above).
10 A nuclear accident is to be staged (killing Renard who is dying anyway).
11 Effect of accident is to irradiate the Bosporus and surrounding Black Sea for decades.
12 Said tankers (see 3 above) will not be able to ship their oil to Istanbul i.e. the West.
The Clever Bit.

13 The King pipeline goes to the SOUTH!(see 1 above)
14 Elektra does not need the Bosporus to transport her oil.
15 Her source of oil remains the only game in town.
16 She literally has her hand on the spigot of the world’s (non-Middle Eastern) oil supply (a line like this was in an early draft).
17 Elektra King becomes the one of the most powerful people in the world.

Rather confusing!

Prince Kamal Khan

Lazenby880 wrote:

Although enjoyable, the full plot of The World Is Not Enough is rather confusing. As CBn member 'ACE' wrote on this page:

Neil Purvis and Robert Wade created a Bond adventure as overwrought as a Shakespearean tragedy. The history, motivation and interaction between the principal characters underpin the entire story. Firstly, then, we need to understand the rather warped Elektra King.

1) She believes her father, Sir Robert King, conned her mother’s family out of their oil wealth.
2) She was a wild, wayward, spoiled, sexually mature young lady who always had power over men (her father, her lovers, her kidnapper)
3) When kidnapped by Viktor Zokas aka Renard and held for 5,000,000 ransom, it was assumed that Elektra suffered Stockholm syndrome. She didn’t. It turns out Renard is following her to the point of sacrifice. She knew exactly what she was doing. She turned him and planned her elaborate revenge and power plan from this point. Hence, it was the opposite of Stockholm syndrome; Helsinki syndrome, perhaps?
4) The delayed ransom further stokes Elektra’s resentment of her father (see 1. above). However, Sir Robert delay is on his friend, Head of MI6’s, advice. M wanted time to target Renard. As it happens, the ransom is not paid as Elektra “escapes”. However, MI6’s complicity in delaying the ransom is factored in when Elekra pointedly uses exactly the same booby-trapped ransom amount of cash as bait (a refund for payment for a dodgy stolen oil-pipeline threat report) to lure MI6 into facilitating the death of her father.
5) This last action allows Elektra to control King Industries, cause her father’s death at the hand of MI6 and set her wider ambitions in motion.

Strictly Plutonic

I get very confused by the caper of Elektra’s wider ambitions. If you do too, get this in your head first:

1 The competing pipelines taking oil from the Caspian Sea go to the NORTH.
2 That oil is put into tankers.
3 The tankers go across the Black Sea to Istanbul.
Now,

4 Weapons grade plutonium is stolen in the decommissioning site in Kazakhstan.
5 An attempt to sabotage the King pipeline is staged with HALF the stolen plutonium (not enough to go nuclear in a conventional bomb so no lasting damage) in order to:
i) throw the intelligence services off the scent of the real threat; and
ii) make the authorities think ALL the plutonium (see 4 above) was used in the bombing of the pipeline.
Meanwhile,

6 An aging Russian nuclear submarine is purchased on the black market.
7 Said purchase facilitated by Zukovsky in a rigged card game in the Casino L’Or Noir.
Finale.

8 Said nuclear submarine is secretly sent to Istanbul.
9 The aging nuclear reactor is primed with the other half of the stolen plutonium (see 4 above).
10 A nuclear accident is to be staged (killing Renard who is dying anyway).
11 Effect of accident is to irradiate the Bosporus and surrounding Black Sea for decades.
12 Said tankers (see 3 above) will not be able to ship their oil to Istanbul i.e. the West.
The Clever Bit.

13 The King pipeline goes to the SOUTH!(see 1 above)
14 Elektra does not need the Bosporus to transport her oil.
15 Her source of oil remains the only game in town.
16 She literally has her hand on the spigot of the world’s (non-Middle Eastern) oil supply (a line like this was in an early draft).
17 Elektra King becomes the one of the most powerful people in the world.

Rather confusing!

When you spell it out like that, it really shows how much of a soap opera-type plot TWINE is. The idea of Bond battling a female main villain is a good one(far better than the tiresome "female James Bonds" he seems to now run across in every other 007 film. Yawn.) but I think that should've filmed John Gardner's For Special Services instead.

For all the criticism DAD gets, I like it far better than TWINE since the espionage and international intrigue he gets involved in in that film seems more appropriate to his character. Also, the strengths of CR have really showed TWINE's weaknesses also. At least Maria Grazia Cucinotta and Sophie Marceau make for a couple of exotic villainesses in TWINE.

rennervision

Lazenby880 wrote:

10 A nuclear accident is to be staged (killing Renard who is dying anyway).

There's one element to this which still confuses me. Was Renard going to doublecross his crew by destroying the submarine, or did his men (who are NOT dying) agree to kill themselves for Elektra as well???

bacaret

wow! I always thought twine was an easy plot to follow until I read this thread. there is alot more going on in this film that meets the eye.

Agent Wade

It took me forever to get the gist of FRWL. I was a youngster when I started watching Bond films, and this one moved a lot slower. Now it's one of my top personal favorites.

Others that I had trouble getting my head around were the YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, TMWTGG, OP, TLD, LTK, TWINE and QOS.

bailorg

For future Bond fans, I am willing to bet that QoS will be the most utterly baffling, if they haven't watched CR first, after which, it should mostly make sense.

DrMaybe

FRWL used to get me mixed up on a few plot points. Fortunately, as the series went on, it got more formulaic and easier to understand.

Lazenby880

rennervision wrote:

There's one element to this which still confuses me. Was Renard going to doublecross his crew by destroying the submarine, or did his men (who are NOT dying) agree to kill themselves for Elektra as well???

That is a really good question that never crossed my mind before. What does Renard tell those men? ?:)

chrisno1

bailorg wrote:

For future Bond fans, I am willing to bet that QoS will be the most utterly baffling, if they haven't watched CR first, after which, it should mostly make sense.

i agree, every other Bond film, while alluding to previous adventures, doesn't require the viewer to have prior knowledge. QOS is a direct sequel, and makes plenty of references to CR which are not wholey explained. Not a good idea. The only plus side is a hell of a lot of people have seem CR...