Would Fleming be angry?

Jarvio

Here's something I just thought of. Not sure if it's been discussed before.

As most of you will know, the Bond films have not been faithful to the books in many, many cases. For example, different parts and stories to different books, being incorporated in totally different films. 'A view to a kill' instead of 'FROM a view to a kill'. James Bond only ever being English TWICE. A black Leiter in CR. A female M. These are just a few examples. I don't read Fleming, so my knowledge is limited on the subject.

My question is, if Fleming was alive today, do you think he would be angry at all this?

Personally, if I wrote books and people made them into films whilst tampering with stories, mixing everything up, and changing characters, I would be quite angry.

What's your thoughts?

wakwak007

Jarvio, very good topic. I'll need to read up more on Fleming but my initial take would no he would not be upset. My main reason was he himself was not as happy with some of the books that he wrote, hence not allowing the actual story TSWLM only the name be used as a film. This and a few other wierd specifications as I remember that lead me to believe that picking scenes out of some books to create a film would alright. IMHO, I think EON productions were very respectful in thier adaptions to his books and in thier directions they took the character's (the humor etc.)If memory served me, Fleming was going to kill off Bond in FRWL but someone and/or the public outcry changed his mind. Much of the humor during the Moore Era was put in due to the times and with the next generation of Bond fans (i.e. kids) going to see the films (That's what Cubby said in an interview that kids were writing him wether Jaws would return so his character came back in Moonraker.) I would wonder which book Fleming was most proudest of and what changes were made for the film.
In terms of the change in actors/actresses. IMO, I think he also would have been overall ok with this as well. His books were a mix bag however he had a several women in authoritarian roles (Klebb from FRWL and for the most part Galore from GF and Corral was a good Character in LALD and DN.) However if my memory serves me, LALD was rather racist in nature. The only character he may have had trouble with is M... a woman in charge of MI-6. Good question, I'm interested to see what others think as well on this. I've slowly started re-reading his books as I've begun picking up the new re-published paperbacks with the "60's type artwork." (I rather like the artwork,)so I may have to get back to this topic after a re-read a few more books.

Barbel

Jarvio wrote:

...James Bond only ever being English TWICE... I don't read Fleming, so my knowledge is limited on the subject.

It would be more accurate to say that James Bond has only ever been Scottish ONCE.

highhopes

I don't think Fleming had any literary pretensions-- which is one of the reasons they are so well written, I think -- so I doubt he'd be angry. Bond worked for him and not the other way. He financed his lifestyle. He might have preferred an approach to the character that was less gadgety than it was in later films, but I think his attitude would be, "if that's what they want, more power to them."

7289

Ian Fleming in the last months of hs life was asked what it was like to achieve fame and fortune as Bond's creator, his reply "Ashes, just ashes."

Fleming was a pretty good businessman, and recognised the difference between his novels and the films. He made no effort to participate in the production of the first three films, he died while "Goldfinger" was in production.

I am sure at some point he would hae ventured off and written other novels, with different charecters, and prehaps even licensing Bond off like Glidrose does now, only with "The Master" himself overseeing other writers work.

Fleming died too soon, if he were alive, I think he would be amazed at the longevity of his creation and the merchandising empire he created with "Casino Royale".

I doubt we "obsessed" fans would earn his gratitute. I am sure he would advise us in the same way Shatner did in the justifiably famous Saturday Night Live skit..."Get a life", and would encourage us to read Somerset Maugham, Eric Ambler, Raymond Chandler and a whole host of other authors.

Loeffelholz

I certainly don't think Fleming would be angry that the 21st film starring his creation---an adaptation of his first novel---made nearly $600 million at the box office... B-)

(Although it's not too difficult to imagine him being at least slightly annoyed---and/or simply incredulous---from time to time, over the past four-and-a-half decades)

highhopes

Loeffelholz wrote:

I certainly don't think Fleming would be angry that the 21st film starring his creation---an adaptation of his first novel---made nearly $600 million at the box office... B-)

I agree. I think there would have to be a sense of competitive pride that a relatively faithful adaptation of one of his novels came out on top of so many movies that bore no resemblance to anything he'd written.

Barry Nelson

Not that I knew him personally, but I don't think he would be too happy over some of the movies, MR and AVTAK to name two. Bond was his character which he fashioned loosly after some of his real and imagined exploits. Don't think he would like to see some of the goofiness we saw during the Moore years.

But, as HH points out, the checks would probably soften the disappointment.

7289

Flemings wife was a bit of a snob (read shrew) and she would have cocktail parties during which her snob friends would read aloud from IF's books - laughing and making derisive comments.

IF would frequently have to come home to that.

I doubt very much if after that kind of treatment Roger Moore films would cause him any distress at all.

JADE66

I think that would greatly depend on the film.
Fleming accepted Dr. No, the film version and approved of From Russia with Love. I think he would have liked Goldfinger and Thunderball, would have laughed at You Only Live Twice and aside from the selection of George Lazenby would have given the thumbs up to OHMSS. However, I think that had he lived to see Moonraker, that film alone would have been enough to put him in his grave. I think he would be angry at Moonraker, Octopussy, A View to a Kill, dismayed by YOLT, DAF, TMWTGG, and pretty much pleased with most of the rest. As for the non-Fleming stories, LTK, GE, TND, TWINE, he would have been entertained. He might have cut his wrists after
DAD.
I also think, and this may be my own prejudice, that he would like Daniel Craig and Casino Royale. Having read Fleming's novels, his biography and seen all the films that is my opinion.-{

Loeffelholz

JADE66 wrote:

I also think, and this may be my own prejudice, that he would like Daniel Craig and Casino Royale. Having read Fleming's novels, his biography and seen all the films that is my opinion.-{

I agree {[]

7289

JADE66 wrote:

He might have cut his wrists after
DAD.

I first saw DAD on DVD, and it's lucky the razors were all locked up.

Duke

No He would welcome the change - which is the reason why the 007 series is so successful. If the films remained completely faithful to the books I reckon the series would not have the success it has. Hence the books are not in the order of the films. So predictability would be really dull.

7289

Duke,

If Eon had just used the books in order, and made screenplays based on them, they would have run out of novels about 7 films ago!

Looking back I not sure why the series is so sucessful, the overall quality being so sporadic - I would wager its still has forward momentum from the tsunami of popularity it had in the 1960's.

Dan Same

7289 wrote:

Looking back I not sure why the series is so sucessful, the overall quality being so sporadic - I would wager its still has forward momentum from the tsunami of popularity it had in the 1960's.

I think the series is successful because it has something for everyone. For someone like you, there's a Dalton film or a CR, and for me, there are the Moore and Brosnan films. (Insert appropiate anti-Craig/Dalton comment here. :v )

7289

Dan,

You're probably right, but for some of us it has been a long dry spell, to keep with my nature theme, a drought .... hopefully it's not the onset of Global Warming!

John Drake

Dan Same wrote:

(Insert appropiate anti-Craig/Dalton comment here. :v )

Don't you mean, 'insert IN-appropriate anti-Craig/Dalton comment here,' Dan?

Dan Same

John Drake wrote:

Dan Same wrote:

(Insert appropiate anti-Craig/Dalton comment here. :v )

Don't you mean, 'insert IN-appropriate anti-Craig/Dalton comment here,' Dan?

When it comes to Craig/Dalton comments, none are inappropiate. )

7289 wrote:

but for some of us it has been a long dry spell, to keep with my nature theme, a drought .... hopefully it's not the onset of Global Warming!

Perhaps but it goes around in circles. There might be an era (or eras) that a Bond fan might not like, but then the films will enter an era which the same Bond fan might like. I'm lucky in that I enjoyed most of the Bond films (and even my least-favourite Bond films are better than some non-Bond films), but if it has been truly been a drought for you, then I'm happy that you finally have rain. -{

Sweepy the Cat

I think he'd be happy with DN-TB, not so happy with YOLT, love OHMSS but will not approve of GL, hate DAF, think LALD and TMWTGG were OK. Will pretend to hate TSWLM and MR but secretly love them, once again love FYEO been a mix from the short story collection. OP, ok, AVTAK, rubbish, love Dalton, GE and TWINE good, TND and DAD bad, love CR.

BarryFan

Read "The Battle For Bond" by Robert Sellers. It's basically a history of the struggles between Fleming and the literary Bond and Kevin McClory and the cinematic Bond, and all the lawsuits that resulted. But the facinating thing about it is that the books has hundreds of letters from Fleming as he's trying to shop his novels around to the fim industry. This is something like 1958, and already he's suggesting tailoring the stories to "the modern audience" and admitting that his novels lack the visual elements required by movies! It's really quite amazing.

darenhat

One of the wilder departures from Fleming was the original television version of 'Casino Royale' with Barry Nelson. Does anyone have any knowledge of Fleming's opinion on that? If Fleming could accept Bond being played as an American, and the toe-breaking in lieu of genital thwacking, then maybe Fleming would be perfectly fine with today's invisible cars and silly double-entendres. It was the money he was after primarily (and part of it was also, I suspect, I slight joy in making a living off of what 'high-brow' individuals would call garbage).

taity

I think he'd probably be more ammused than anything else that they had made 21 of his movies and that they were still popular 50 years later

I never meet Fleming - but I have an image of an old conservate Brit male - one who didnt understand (nor attempt to understand) the younger generation who made his films successful, but was ammused by it. It probably would have thought that MR was rubbish, but have laughed at it.

He also would have found it comical that M was played by a lady, but state that he was also suprised how far women have come since he started writing.

Perhaps a brilliant question would be - how would the films look if Fleming hadnt died? WOuld we have had the craziness of YOLT and MR if Fleming was still around?

postman pat

I like your comment! Fleming seemed to have an air about him that the world was passing him by at great speed, but he didn't mind too much.

If he'd survived beyond Thunderball, he probably would have been disappointed, but there's not much he could've done really. Once the rights were out, they were out.

Nevertheless, for the the fans at least, it was a huge blessing Fleming sold up and that someone like Cubby took over the James Bond icon.