First, it has a believable villian. I always felt later Bond villians were too young which gave them a certain menace but no depth. Pryce gives substance to a poorly written role; .
Gustav Graves gets my vote for worst Bond villian but Elliott Carver comes close. At best he's identikit at worse? Jonathan Pryce is very badly cast and plays it with far too much ham and not enough menace. To pull off a Bond villain you have to play the threat seriously and the ham and campness are a biproduct of that. With Carver it was the other way round and sunk it.
this is much more like Goldfinger and Blofeld than Graves, Zorin and Reynard who are just overblown psychos.
I agree with you about the age thing. Youth may be a physical threat to 007 but age suggests power which is much more dangerous. I agree with you about Graves and Reynard.
Wai Lin was a good character. There seem to be complaints about her being Bonds equal, but we've seen this before (eg. Anya Amasova, Holly Goodhead) and it never hurt those films. .
Anya and Holly had the Cubby Broccoli touch and were done with charm and good grace. Wai Lin was cookie cutter action girl. Nothing new here.Move along.
David Arnold came on board to compose and what a fantastic effort, easily the best of the latter-day Bond scores, and one he has failed to match since. .
Agreed. The Casino Royale one is his best work - lush and flowing..
So, yes, there are faults, but then again which Bond film doesnt? .
I cant find it in my heart to damn TND like TWINE or DAD because its OK for the first half hour. Its when it leaves Germany the problems occur.Having said that however I dont think itwill ever leave my bottom five.
I
Brosnan looks and acts his best in this film, something of a surprise given that he regards working on TND as his worst 007 experience. .
Yep,viewing this one is one of my worst experiencres of a Brosnan film. I concur..
LoeffelholzThe United States, With LovePosts: 8,998Quartermasters
edited November 2007
I've just checked my favourites list, and am mildly surprised to note that I enjoy the Brozzer Bonds in the same order in which they were made: GE highest, followed by TND, then TWINE, and lastly DAD. Of course, GE is far above the rest, which all huddle near the bottom of my list.
Still, I enjoy TND more than probably most members on the site. I got a real kick out of Pryce's Eliot Carver (the closest thing to an 'old school'-style Bond villian Brosnan ever faced), I liked Wai Lin (the authentic Hong Kong martial arts moves worked for me), and I thought Brozzer's dramatic scene in the hotel with Carver's wife (looking good, Ms. Hatcher! :x ) was perhaps the best of his tenure. Dr. Kaufmann was good...but I would have preferred G. Gordon Liddy to Vincent Schiavelli :v
I also enjoyed all the action stuff (the PTS,the car park chase, the BMW motorcycle)...although the helicopter hovering with its blades at a 45-degree angle always drives me crazy X-( |) ...and I thought the stealth boat was an interesting platform for the finale.
Of course, the problems are numerous (the afore-mentioned plot rehashing, etc.), but IMO this is symptomatic of this particular era. Too much was made of Wai Lin's 'superspy' status...the 'walking down the wall' thing is godawful---to say nothing of that little wave she gives Bond [sound of retching].
I even enjoy Sheryl Crow's song...but K.D. Lang's "Surrender" is better B-)
Over all, I had a pretty good time with this one B-)
Check out my Amazon author page!Mark Loeffelholz
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
The plot of TND is a clear re-hash of YOLT & TSWLM but these movies are two of the most enjoyable in the franchise (despite their ott nature) and if anything, TND is more realistic.
I really liked YOLT and I consider TSWLM to be an absolute masterpiece (the last absolute masterpiece IMO), however I felt that TND was by far the lesser of the three. I find it extremely derivative. Plus I can't stand Wai Lin, so while I don't hate TND, I certainly don't love it. I think it's average; okay to watch, but there are about 13 other Bond films I would rather watch.
I hated Carver. Although I consider Graves to be the worst, what annoys me about Carver is that IMO he is completely non-threatening. In fact, none of the villains in TND were all that threatening IMO; with the exception of Kaufman, they struck me as completely wasted opportunities.
Anya and Holly had the Cubby Broccoli touch and were done with charm and good grace. Wai Lin was cookie cutter action girl. Nothing new here.Move along.
What I hate about Wai Lin goes beyond her being a 'cookie cutter action girl.' To me, she was incredinly in your face and rather nauseating. I think she was easily one of the four worst Bond girls of all time (along with Stacey, Jinx and Vesper.)
The best creation is Dr. Kaufmann, a quite wonderful cameo with a sinister introduction and lines as causticly funny as Bonds own.
Agreed. Possibly the only thing that works in TND.
I love Kaufman, but I don't think it was the only thing that works in TND. The remote controlled car chase, the fight at the party and some of the dialogue at the start of the film are also terrific IMO.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I don't remember her being all that happily married in the film. Certainly in the novelisation she wasn't.
Dan, perhaps I've misunderstood what you've said previously but I thought you hadn't read the books? ?:)
Arf! That leapt out at me too- one of the worst books ever written chosen over Fleming?!
Anyhoo- I really like TND. The action is great (easily the best of the Brosnan films) and it looks and sounds fantastic; I'm not sure what more you can ask of a Bond film. Some bits are weak- Jonathan Pryce is a bit off (a shame because I think he's bloody great) and the ending is a bit wearing, but it all still works marvellously.
Dan, perhaps I've misunderstood what you've said previously but I thought you hadn't read the books? ?:)
I haven't, in the sense that I haven't read any original books. The only Bond book that I have read (apart from Bond encyclopedias or reference books) is the book that I'm referring to which is a novelisation written by Raymond Benson. It's based on the film's screenplay, and so I wouldn't exactly call it original. ) Although it's no literally masterpiece, I quite enjoyed it, and it provided some fascinating background information for the main characters, particularly Carver who is much more fleshed out than he is in the film.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Arf! That leapt out at me too- one of the worst books ever written chosen over Fleming?!
Not at all. I'm sure that I will eventually read Fleming but this isn't about prefering one book over another. I simply happen to own this novelisation, which I like, and I don't own any Fleming.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
I understand. I saw Michelle Yeoh on an interview around the time of TND's release. She recounted how she was informed they wanted her for the new James Bond film and her reaction was "They want me to play James Bond!!!"
The only way she would agree to be in the film is if they made her character "just like James Bond in every way", disregarding the fact that if anybody but James Bond is "just like James Bond in every way" then James Bond is no longer special. That stated, she plays her character fine and ultimately Wai Lin got captured and had to rescued several times in the film. I just do not happen to care for her character. If she had to be in TND, I would rather she would've been a villainess. Especially after having to lose Teri Hatcher's underrated Paris.
I don't really have a problem with the idea of Teri Hatcher being the main girl. As long as Wai Lin wasn't the main girl, it doesn't really concern me who was the main girl instead of her. )
I understand your not being fond of Wai Lin, Jinx or Stacy but what problem do you have with Vesper? She's my favorite main Bond leading lady since Kara(possible exception of Natalya). And she definitely was not an "in-your-face" Jinx/Wai Lin-type.
I'll say quickly why I dislike al four women. Wai Lin came across to me as extremely "in-your-face"/a female Bond to me.
I feel the same way about Jinx, but what makes it worse in her case was her short hair. Let me just say that I adore Halle Berry. I think she's one of the world's three most beautiful women and I would love to marry her. BUT I don't think she looks great with short hair. Add her short hair to her persona, and you end up with IMO a truly horrible Bond girl. Ugh! X-(
I dislike Stacey because she's so annoying and because IMO she's not good looking. It's one thing for a Bond girl to be annoying, but Stacey took it to an extreme, plus I don't find her attractive, so pressing mute on my remote control doesn't lessen the pain of watching her.
The reason I hate Vesper is that IMO she's horribly acted, bad looking (JFF compared her to a vampire which I don't think is inaccurate ), extremely unconvincing in terms of her feelings for Bond and so annoying that I was happy to see her dead.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Tee HeeCBT Headquarters: Chicago, ILPosts: 917MI6 Agent
I dislike Stacey because she's so annoying and because IMO she's not good looking. It's one thing for a Bond girl to be annoying, but Stacey took it to an extreme, plus I don't find her attractive, so pressing mute on my remote control doesn't lessen the pain of watching her.
Dan, I can understand your gripes about Robert's acting and the nature of her character in AVTAK. But to say that she's not good looking is a bit of a stretch. :v
Dan, I can understand your gripes about Robert's acting and the nature of her character in AVTAK. But to say that she's not good looking is a bit of a stretch. :v
Sorry, but I'm not a big fan of blondes. There are exceptions, but she isn't one of them.
"He’s a man way out there in the blue, riding on a smile and a shoeshine. And when they start not smiling back—that’s an earthquake. and then you get yourself a couple of spots on your hat, and you’re finished. Nobody dast blame this man. A salesman is got to dream, boy. It comes with the territory." Death of a Salesman
Comments
Gustav Graves gets my vote for worst Bond villian but Elliott Carver comes close. At best he's identikit at worse? Jonathan Pryce is very badly cast and plays it with far too much ham and not enough menace. To pull off a Bond villain you have to play the threat seriously and the ham and campness are a biproduct of that. With Carver it was the other way round and sunk it.
I agree with you about the age thing. Youth may be a physical threat to 007 but age suggests power which is much more dangerous. I agree with you about Graves and Reynard.
Anya and Holly had the Cubby Broccoli touch and were done with charm and good grace. Wai Lin was cookie cutter action girl. Nothing new here.Move along.
What chemistry? I thought they just slipped into genric Bond/girl formula. Barely any chemistry..
Agreed. The Casino Royale one is his best work - lush and flowing..
Agreed. Its appalling, up with Madonnas as the series worse.
oh the horror!
.
Agreed. Possibly the only thing that works in TND.
I cant find it in my heart to damn TND like TWINE or DAD because its OK for the first half hour. Its when it leaves Germany the problems occur.Having said that however I dont think itwill ever leave my bottom five.
I
Yep,viewing this one is one of my worst experiencres of a Brosnan film. I concur..
Still, I enjoy TND more than probably most members on the site. I got a real kick out of Pryce's Eliot Carver (the closest thing to an 'old school'-style Bond villian Brosnan ever faced), I liked Wai Lin (the authentic Hong Kong martial arts moves worked for me), and I thought Brozzer's dramatic scene in the hotel with Carver's wife (looking good, Ms. Hatcher! :x ) was perhaps the best of his tenure. Dr. Kaufmann was good...but I would have preferred G. Gordon Liddy to Vincent Schiavelli :v
I also enjoyed all the action stuff (the PTS,the car park chase, the BMW motorcycle)...although the helicopter hovering with its blades at a 45-degree angle always drives me crazy X-(
Of course, the problems are numerous (the afore-mentioned plot rehashing, etc.), but IMO this is symptomatic of this particular era. Too much was made of Wai Lin's 'superspy' status...the 'walking down the wall' thing is godawful---to say nothing of that little wave she gives Bond
I even enjoy Sheryl Crow's song...but K.D. Lang's "Surrender" is better B-)
Over all, I had a pretty good time with this one B-)
"I am not an entrant in the Shakespeare Stakes." - Ian Fleming
"Screw 'em." - Daniel Craig, The Best James Bond EverTM
I hated Carver. Although I consider Graves to be the worst, what annoys me about Carver is that IMO he is completely non-threatening. In fact, none of the villains in TND were all that threatening IMO; with the exception of Kaufman, they struck me as completely wasted opportunities.
I don't remember her being all that happily married in the film. Certainly in the novelisation she wasn't.
Me too. {[] I think he could have been fantastic.
What I hate about Wai Lin goes beyond her being a 'cookie cutter action girl.' To me, she was incredinly in your face and rather nauseating. I think she was easily one of the four worst Bond girls of all time (along with Stacey, Jinx and Vesper.)
I love Kaufman, but I don't think it was the only thing that works in TND. The remote controlled car chase, the fight at the party and some of the dialogue at the start of the film are also terrific IMO.
Dan, perhaps I've misunderstood what you've said previously but I thought you hadn't read the books? ?:)
Arf! That leapt out at me too- one of the worst books ever written chosen over Fleming?!
Anyhoo- I really like TND. The action is great (easily the best of the Brosnan films) and it looks and sounds fantastic; I'm not sure what more you can ask of a Bond film. Some bits are weak- Jonathan Pryce is a bit off (a shame because I think he's bloody great) and the ending is a bit wearing, but it all still works marvellously.
I don't really have a problem with the idea of Teri Hatcher being the main girl. As long as Wai Lin wasn't the main girl, it doesn't really concern me who was the main girl instead of her.
I'll say quickly why I dislike al four women. Wai Lin came across to me as extremely "in-your-face"/a female Bond to me.
I feel the same way about Jinx, but what makes it worse in her case was her short hair. Let me just say that I adore Halle Berry. I think she's one of the world's three most beautiful women and I would love to marry her.
I dislike Stacey because she's so annoying and because IMO she's not good looking. It's one thing for a Bond girl to be annoying, but Stacey took it to an extreme, plus I don't find her attractive, so pressing mute on my remote control doesn't lessen the pain of watching her.
The reason I hate Vesper is that IMO she's horribly acted, bad looking (JFF compared her to a vampire which I don't think is inaccurate
Dan, I can understand your gripes about Robert's acting and the nature of her character in AVTAK. But to say that she's not good looking is a bit of a stretch. :v
[img=http://www.thefakelife.com/blog/uploaded_images/Pinup3TanyaRoberts.jpg]Come on Dan, despite your opinion of Stacy Sutton, you have to at least admit that she was hot! :x[/img]
-Roger Moore